22 replies to this topic

[Direct Drive]

This is a serious question I've been wondering about....

What exactly does the FIA do and why do we need them. What is a sanctioning body and why is one needed, especially in Paris? Could it be replaced by another or simply eliminated all together?

[Yellowmc]

http://en.wikipedia......_l'Automobile

[Imperial]

"The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile is the governing body for world motor sport and the federation of the world’s leading motoring organisations.

Founded in 1904, with headquarters in Paris, the FIA is a non-profit making association. It brings together 219 national motoring and sporting organisations from 130 countries on five continents. Its member clubs represent over 100 million motorists and their families.

The FIA has been dedicated to representing the rights of motoring organisations and motor car users throughout the world via campaigns and activities that defend their interests. On issues such as safety, mobility, the environment and consumer law the FIA actively promotes the interests of motorists at the United Nations, within the European Union and through other international bodies.

The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport including the FIA Formula One World Championship, FIA World Rally Championship and FIA World Touring Car Championship."

http://www.fia.com/e...s/AboutFIA.aspx

I don't think this forum needs yet another debate about the FIA, but to address your questions:

What is a sanctioning body? Why they make the rules! It's not an exclusively motorsport thing. There are sanctioning bodies for any form of competition on the planet, from our beloved F1, to the Miss World contest, to the Eurovision Song Contest.

Why is one needed? Without one we would have no rules or order and there would be chaos. Like there used to be. Then the competitors would go nuts and demand rules and order. And so a sanctioning body would be created to govern their sport. And there was.

Why in Paris? Why not? It has to be somewhere.

For F1 it couldn't be replaced, because F1 is the FIA Formula One World Championship. It's theirs. That's why FOTA had to propose a new series. F1 doesn't belong to the teams (although you wouldn't think so...) it belongs to the FIA, so if the teams want to take their ball and play with it somewhere else they have to give it a new name.

For all the ridiculous and frankly ill-judged anti-FIA sentiment on this forum few people seem to ponder the fact that if the FIA dissolved itself today and gave away the rights to F1 they would be replaced by another sanctioning body and there would be just as many complaints about the new lot.

Edited by Imperial, 30 June 2009 - 19:25.

[AlexS]

Imperial camouflages . A New F1 body made by the participants is not the same of a body that have 100's of countries and clubs that don't have anything to do with F1. Thpose that make F1 should be part of the F1 body, those that don't should be out.

[Dragonfly]

Oh no. Caravaning is very similar to F1 racing and road assistance is the predecessor of evacuation trucks used on the tracks.

[TinyJim]

This is a serious question I've been wondering about....

What exactly does the FIA do and why do we need them. What is a sanctioning body and why is one needed, especially in Paris? Could it be replaced by another or simply eliminated all together?

No he FIA is not 'needed' to go racing. It provides a system/code/group that many motorsport sport bodies across the world sign up too but if you want to race whatever you can do

[engel]

In laymans terms the FIA own the copyrights to the term Formula 1 and various derivatives of it. That's about it. Otherwise we three can get together form an antiFIA and sanction motorsport or horsedrawn carriage endurance events or whatever, there's no divine or legal obligation that any and all motorsport must carry the FIA seal of approval.

[Muz Bee]

Imperial's reply illustrates what's wrong with FIA. The FIA (and Imperial) believe the FIA "owns" F1. Rather than performing the role of a strong but objective and impartial sanctioner and governor of F1 it behaves like F1 is it's (and actually Mosley's) personal plaything. Most FIA members have no background of F1 or open wheeler racing, or even motorsport of any kind. These members vote on a President (as is a valid principle) who acts in a dictatorial and irrational manner (not valid).

Until FIA realises it's proper role, or FOTA break away and find or construct a new sanctioning body these problems will continue to get worse. And the reason - because Max oversteps his mark as president. Mosley likes to portray FIA as some grand organisation which is much bigger than F1 (which it should be) but it is impossible to disguise the fact that it isn't. There is no grand motoring body driving the motoring industry with political wisdom and acumen, the manufacturers of motor vehicles have for some time despised and distrusted Mosley and his puppet organisation (don't mention the war - I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!). He has all the panache of a Basil Fawlty and his references to the German auto manufacturers and their history during WWII make him and FIA offside with German industry as well as Japan, and now, you will find, the Italians. Since the News of the World revelations in 07, if not before, conservative USA have had no time for Mosley and his banana federation, his idiotic ravings and about faces.

The clubs which make up the voting membership are entrusted with a one club, one vote democracy. Giant organisations like the American association are rather uncomfortable with Mosley's style and have already voted no confidence once and will do so again. It will fail to dislodge Mosley and an alternative sanctioning body is the only alternative for the disaffected which probably not only include "F1". It may not happen but a FOTA breakaway may set up their own independent (F1 only) governing body from scratch. The way that this is kept at arms length from the entrants (teams) will be the key to whether F1 then collapses back into the same sort of farce we see today. Teams will always look for something which is to their advantage so strong independence is utterly essential.

[jez6363]

Oh no. Caravaning is very similar to F1 racing and road assistance is the predecessor of evacuation trucks used on the tracks.

And where would the teams stay if there weren't any caravans...

What is this thing about the EU having delegated responsibility for overseeing car motor racing to the FIA (I think Max claimed this, recently)? As I read it, the EU has slapped the FIA down for restrictive practises against non FIA events?

Also, don't circuits have to get approved by the FIA to run any FIA motorsport series - and that is part of the problem with a breakaway - no circuits can host the breakaway without losing all FIA series (if the FIA decide to not race there any more, which would be likely...). Though I think the EU business said the FIA must NOT put commercial restrictions on circuits, but it seems circuits are still in fear of being discriminated against by the FIA?

[cheapracer]

Also, don't circuits have to get approved by the FIA to run any FIA motorsport series - and that is part of the problem with a breakaway - no circuits can host the breakaway without losing all FIA series (if the FIA decide to not race there any more, which would be likely...). Though I think the EU business said the FIA must NOT put commercial restrictions on circuits, but it seems circuits are still in fear of being discriminated against by the FIA?

This has all already been done in Australia many years ago mainly through a man named Bob Jane who owns a few circuits - now 4 as of last year.

He ran his own race series and the FIA said then he cant run FIA events at his tracks - Jane is a squillionaire and took them to court and won - logic prevailed and the courts laffed at the FIA thinking they were the only ones that had the right to run motor racing or could place business restrictions on Jane.

It was noted that the FIA's safety regs in place had actually been developed over years of consultation with competitors, common Goverment material standards such as armco and safety belts, based in common sense and in the basic interest of human safety that other groups were free to use the standards for their own rule books.

[Direct Drive]

I don't think this forum needs yet another debate about the FIA, but to address your questions:

Thank you for your answers. This forum is so huge and time so long consumed researching previous posts, its an almost pointless exercise. I just wanted the latest end of June 2009 facts.
I appreciate everyone's input. Sounds like what the US "American Automobile Association" was 75 years ago and now the AAA sells maps, cruises and insurance.

Edited by Direct Drive, 01 July 2009 - 03:27.

[cheapracer]

Oh and by the way, it worked for the drivers too. They said they had the right to earn money as professional race drivers in any series that could offer them their living, the FIA said "No, you run 'black events' (arrogant sods) and your FIA licence will be cancelled" They went to court, the drivers won - same thing, the FIA don't have the right to place rightful earning restrictions on a persons employment, its simply none of their business.

[Imperial]

Thank you for your answers. This forum is so huge and time so long consumed researching previous posts, its an almost pointless exercise.

No offence intended, but it's multiple threads such as this one covering the same topics over and over that has put this forum in it's current position of being completely bloated and almost impossible now to keep track of any particular discussion, because it's going on in multiple threads simultaneously.

There are in fact live FIA threads right now in which this issue could have been covered.

Edited by Imperial, 01 July 2009 - 12:24.

[DEVO]

what engel said...that's it...and no other reason.

"F1" really needs it's own dedicated governing body just like every other sport has.

[Chezrome]

Thank you for your answers. This forum is so huge and time so long consumed researching previous posts, its an almost pointless exercise. I just wanted the latest end of June 2009 facts.
I appreciate everyone's input. Sounds like what the US "American Automobile Association" was 75 years ago and now the AAA sells maps, cruises and insurance.

Direct Drive,

I think you are absolutely in your right to start a new thread. The other threads are very long and very full op people who scream "Max, is it you?' if there's a poster like Imperial who has a different opinion.

[Imperial]

Direct Drive,

I think you are absolutely in your right to start a new thread. The other threads are very long and very full op people who scream "Max, is it you?' if there's a poster like Imperial who has a different opinion.

You do have a point about a lot of FIA threads being full of idiots.

This one has been okay (thus far) and I don't even feel compelled to write any disagreements to those who have wrote reasoned arguments against my own thinking.

I wish the forum was like this all the time, but it's not.

[Direct Drive]

Thanks
From a retired NY TImes photojournalist, concise is good, and all the personal, one-on-one poster attacks, are tiresome in the best and impossible in the least.
Some genius IT person should figure out how to diminish all the old, tiresome, personally attacking S--T!
You guys rock.
DH

Edited by Direct Drive, 01 July 2009 - 20:56.

[sherer]

as far as I understand it the FIA are the ones who are approved in EU and International levels to talk at government levels. Yes we could form a International Motor Sport Association but as soon as we went to a government to talk about a race they wouldn't know who we were and we wouldn't be approved to talk to them. It would still have to be approved by the FIA, much like A1GP is

[DOF_power]

"The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile is the governing body for world motor sport and the federation of the world’s leading motoring organisations.

Founded in 1904, with headquarters in Paris, the FIA is a non-profit making association. It brings together 219 national motoring and sporting organisations from 130 countries on five continents. Its member clubs represent over 100 million motorists and their families.

The FIA has been dedicated to representing the rights of motoring organisations and motor car users throughout the world via campaigns and activities that defend their interests. On issues such as safety, mobility, the environment and consumer law the FIA actively promotes the interests of motorists at the United Nations, within the European Union and through other international bodies.

The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport including the FIA Formula One World Championship, FIA World Rally Championship and FIA World Touring Car Championship."

http://www.fia.com/e...s/AboutFIA.aspx

I don't think this forum needs yet another debate about the FIA, but to address your questions:

What is a sanctioning body? Why they make the rules! It's not an exclusively motorsport thing. There are sanctioning bodies for any form of competition on the planet, from our beloved F1, to the Miss World contest, to the Eurovision Song Contest.

Why is one needed? Without one we would have no rules or order and there would be chaos. Like there used to be. Then the competitors would go nuts and demand rules and order. And so a sanctioning body would be created to govern their sport. And there was.

Why in Paris? Why not? It has to be somewhere.

For F1 it couldn't be replaced, because F1 is the FIA Formula One World Championship. It's theirs. That's why FOTA had to propose a new series. F1 doesn't belong to the teams (although you wouldn't think so...) it belongs to the FIA, so if the teams want to take their ball and play with it somewhere else they have to give it a new name.

For all the ridiculous and frankly ill-judged anti-FIA sentiment on this forum few people seem to ponder the fact that if the FIA dissolved itself today and gave away the rights to F1 they would be replaced by another sanctioning body and there would be just as many complaints about the new lot.

FIA Formula One World Championship is only here since 1981.

There was non FIA, Grand Prix Grande Epreuves racing and Grand Prix Formula 1 racing from 1906 till 1980.

[DOF_power]

what engel said...that's it...and no other reason.

"F1" really needs it's own dedicated governing body just like every other sport has.

I had the independent CSI/FISA till Balestre and Mosley killed that.

[Dragonfly]

FIA?
Mamma mia!

[Chezrome]

By the way, Direct Drive. I don't think that the FIA is the real problem, or even that Max Mosley is the problem. The problem there are three parties in F1 - FIA, CVC (the financial owners of F1) and the F1-teams. They can't negotiate with eachother, because they can't offer what they can't own.

For example. If FOTA organises a runaway championship, they will have no problem asking the FIA to help organise it. The FIA will do it most excellently. But only because the premise is clear: the rules are thought of by the organisers/owners of the series, and the FIA controlls the implentation and safey aspect.

No problem!

[DOF_power]

By the way, Direct Drive. I don't think that the FIA is the real problem, or even that Max Mosley is the problem. The problem there are three parties in F1 - FIA, CVC (the financial owners of F1) and the F1-teams. They can't negotiate with eachother, because they can't offer what they can't own.

For example. If FOTA organizes a runaway championship, they will have no problem asking the FIA to help organize it. The FIA will do it most excellently. But only because the premise is clear: the rules are thought of by the organisers/owners of the series, and the FIA controls the implementation and safety aspect.

No problem!

It is a problem.
As that's exactly how Grand Prix racing begun.

But in 81 FIA blackmailed/forced the teams into the new FIA F1 WC.


What's to guarantee they won't do that again ?!