18 replies to this topic

[John Brundage]

My oldest son turned 16 and is learning to drive. He usually drives my wifes Volvo XC. He wants to learn how to drive a stick, which is no problem. My car is a stick. The problem occured while looking into a car for my son. I have a 1950 Chevy Pick-up truck that needs to be put together. I talked to my son and suggested that we could work together and build the truck. It would maintain the straight six. I would update the brakes with discs in the front and a dual master cylinder among other things. While building the truck, I would teach him the basics. It would be his to use as we permit. He was quite excited. My wife put the damper on it--No way is our son going to drive a vehicle without SRS (an airbag). I have been searching the 'net for a stand-alone SRS system. I would think that with the electronics of today it would be simple ( a matter of adapting a decelerometer, steering wheel with air bag, etc.). I have not found a supplier of a stand-alone system yet. (lawyers?). I found a company that made them in the 90's but went under and came back as Key Technologies. I only get their electronic operator. I have not heard back from a real person. I am more than capable of installing a system, if available. Does anyone know of a source?

[cheapracer]

Nope but fixed 4 point seat belts will do the trick, show your Lady some race car crashes and explain that air bags are illegal in racing and that fixed 4/5/6 point seat belts is what enables them to walk away from some of those horrendous shunts.

4 point will do fine in that upright seating position but its up to your son to adjust and wear them.

[John Brundage]

Nope but fixed 4 point seat belts will do the trick, show your Lady some race car crashes and explain that air bags are illegal in racing and that fixed 4/5/6 point seat belts is what enables them to walk away from some of those horrendous shunts.

4 point will do fine in that upright seating position but its up to your son to adjust and wear them.

When my son was young, he hated wearing a seatbelt and being in his car seat. I brought him to the shop and had him sit in a race car, strapped him in (loosely) with all the belts and told him this is what race car driver's use. We never had an issue after that.

About 15 years ago my wife came home all upset. She was going to the market in a heavy snow storm (don't ask). She said someone pulled out in front of her. She stomped on the brake pedal and manuvered around the other vehicle without hitting it. However, she wasn't upset about that. She said there was something very wrong with the brakes. She said they made a thump thump thump sound and she could feel it in the pedal. I said GREAT--your ABS is working and it saved you. I explained to her how ABS works and without it, stomping on the pedal in the snow storm, the way she did, she would have slid and hit the other car. She to this day will argue that it shouldn't do that. You can't explain these things to her. I told her that some cars he may be a passenger in, do not have SRS--should we not allow him to ride in them? She won't listen. My only option, if I want my son to drive it, is to find an SRS system.

Because these early vehicles do not have belts, I was going to install a four point system with bucket seats. I have the seats already.

[Tony Matthews]

I told her that some cars he may be a passenger in, do not have SRS--should we not allow him to ride in them? She won't listen.

I'm not keen on subterfuge, or in this case, down-right lying, but you could just fit a steering wheel with an airbag centre, doesn't have to be wired up...

Cheapy is right though, belts are the answer, but there is no defeating feminine logic.

[benrapp]

I'm not keen on subterfuge, or in this case, down-right lying, but you could just fit a steering wheel with an airbag centre, doesn't have to be wired up...

Cheapy is right though, belts are the answer, but there is no defeating feminine logic.

And then he crashes it and the airbag doesn't fire...? Even if the kid walks away unscratched, John will be in capital-T trouble.

[Canuck]

Feminine logic...is that like military intelligence?

When it comes to my kids and cars, I have thus far managed to overcome any objections. We'll see how that goes as the car situations change from them riding with me to them riding on their own. I wouldn't go so far as to call my wife a gear-head, but she appreciates beautiful cars, has a healthy right foot, an utter disdain for automatics and tolerates my growing collection of usable and not-so-usable old cars. There's that old adage about permission and forgiveness...I might be tempted.

[Tony Matthews]

And then he crashes it and the airbag doesn't fire...? Even if the kid walks away unscratched, John will be in capital-T trouble.

He's married... It goes with the territory.

[Tony Matthews]

Feminine logic...is that like military intelligence?

I have known it to be militaristic...

[gruntguru]

My oldest son turned 16 and is learning to drive. He usually drives my wifes Volvo XC. He wants to learn how to drive a stick, which is no problem. My car is a stick. The problem occured while looking into a car for my son. I have a 1950 Chevy Pick-up truck that needs to be put together. I talked to my son and suggested that we could work together and build the truck. It would maintain the straight six. I would update the brakes with discs in the front and a dual master cylinder among other things. While building the truck, I would teach him the basics. It would be his to use as we permit. He was quite excited. My wife put the damper on it--No way is our son going to drive a vehicle without SRS (an airbag). I have been searching the 'net for a stand-alone SRS system. I would think that with the electronics of today it would be simple ( a matter of adapting a decelerometer, steering wheel with air bag, etc.). I have not found a supplier of a stand-alone system yet. (lawyers?). I found a company that made them in the 90's but went under and came back as Key Technologies. I only get their electronic operator. I have not heard back from a real person. I am more than capable of installing a system, if available. Does anyone know of a source?

Greg Locock could probably answer this more accurately, but I am sure the system is normally tailored to the vehicle. Things like accelerometer location and threshold for triggering the system will depend on front bumper rigidity, crumple rates etc.

[Greg Locock]

Greg Locock could probably answer this more accurately, but I am sure the system is normally tailored to the vehicle. Things like accelerometer location and threshold for triggering the system will depend on front bumper rigidity, crumple rates etc.

Exactly. We can do a lot of it in CAE but that is working from a known baseline, and even then we run a crash programme of say 10 cars (often more) to record crash signatures to place and calibrate the sensors, and design the interlock calibrations (so that the car knows which way it is being hit).

The reason that no one would make an aftermarket system is that the product liability insurance would be ridiculous. You could design a generic system, but how woud you tailor it for different cars? You could probably design a system that more or less functioned in any car if it was hit hard enough, but given your litigous society it would only make money for lawyers.

Buy him a 10 year old Honda (or preferably a Volvo), keep your truck for you.

[John Brundage]

gruntguru---I believe you are correct. I thought that they trigger at about 7g's on a frontal collision. From what I have read, some Jags and Toyotas use a stand-alone system. I have not confirmed this yet. There was a company that made a standalone system in the 90's that could be added to your own car. I beleive that Midas used to be a dealer. The original company went under and became Key Technologies. This afternoon I spoke to a customer service rep who said that Key only sells to new vehicle manufactures and she was sure I could order replacement parts from a Chevy dealer for my 1950 pick-up. It took a bit for me to convince her that my truck was not equipped with SRS. I eventually spoke to an enginneer who was quite helpfull. He remembered the system from the 90's. He remembered the last kits going to the London Taxi Cab Company. He thought that all the tooling went to China. He gave me the phone number for the North American sales manager who he said may be able to help. I have left voice mails for him. In the mean time, I am going to Google LTC.

[John Brundage]

Buy him a 10 year old Honda (or preferably a Volvo), keep your truck for you.

My wife wants me to give my 2000 Volvo C70 to my son and I would drive the pick-up. The C70 is the HPT (high pressure turbo) version. I feel it may have too much zip for a new driver. The car has a little over 300,000 miles on it with an original clutch, turbo, radiator etc. I would want to do some serious mods to make the truck comfy for my long commute. I am not in a position to purchase a newer car for myself at this time. I own the truck and could put it together wihout much fuss. Even a 10 year old Volvo or any purchase with the associated taxes etc would not be affordable.

Edited by John Brundage, 02 July 2009 - 01:49.

[cheapracer]

, crumple rates

Crumple rates?? It's a 50's Chev truck ffs!!

[gruntguru]

Crumple rates?? It's a 50's Chev truck ffs!!

Its still got a crumple rate - they just didn't know it at the time.

Edited by gruntguru, 02 July 2009 - 04:47.

[zac510]

Would it be perhaps slightly unscrupulous to go ahead and build the car anyway, then, after year or two of toil, hard work and supreme father-son bonding (brownie points here), suggest to the wife that it would be such a shame not to allow the young man drive the car that he has put so much passion into?
Would that be too obvious emotional guilt trip and is a male capable of that level of forward planning of deception of a female?

[Greg Locock]

My wife wants me to give my 2000 Volvo C70 to my son and I would drive the pick-up. The C70 is the HPT (high pressure turbo) version. I feel it may have too much zip for a new driver. The car has a little over 300,000 miles on it with an original clutch, turbo, radiator etc. I would want to do some serious mods to make the truck comfy for my long commute. I am not in a position to purchase a newer car for myself at this time. I own the truck and could put it together wihout much fuss. Even a 10 year old Volvo or any purchase with the associated taxes etc would not be affordable.

Well, fit the C70 with a running-in device. A throttle stop. Often as simple as a rubber block on the carpet, easily removed at the first service!

[John Brundage]

Would that be too obvious emotional guilt trip and is a male capable of that level of forward planning of deception of a female?

YES !!!

[cheapracer]

Would it be perhaps slightly unscrupulous to go ahead and build the car anyway, then, after year or two of toil, hard work and supreme father-son bonding (brownie points here), suggest to the wife that it would be such a shame not to allow the young man drive the car that he has put so much passion into?
Would that be too obvious emotional guilt trip and is a male capable of that level of forward planning of deception of a female?

I hazard a guess your either not married or still in pleasantville early stages??

[zac510]

Is it that obvious?