12 replies to this topic

[Nathan]

Hello all!! How is everyone today?

First, I apologise for any spelling errors, no Word and the spell check on the forum doesn't work for me.

I have been pondering what type of local racing to get into because I want to get into competative motorsports. My choices were basically 1/3 mile oval racing, drag racing and karting. I have decided on the oval track racing as it seems cheaper and the most exciting, and also allows me to travel to more places. Most circle tracks have two series, mini stocks, which are 4 cylinders, and RWD V8s. I have decided on the former.

I am currently eyeballing a 1977 BMW 320i. Most of my competition will come from Escorts, Civic/Integras the odd Golf/Rabbit etc. To make things a bit more interesting we have a mix of both clay and asphault tracks.

I am hoping to make it to one event before winter, a 100 lap endurance race (the last as well).

The rules dictate I must; remove all glass, strip the interior of everything but the dashboard, install a roll cage, aluminum race seat w/5 point harness, battery box, battery cut-off switch, driveshaft hoops and weld the doors shut.

I'm very limited in what I can do other than that, here are the rules...

1. CARS: Any passenger car with a maximum wheelbase of 102 inches measured at track with 1-inch tolerance. Car must be 10 years old or older Front wheel or rear wheel drive; no 4x4's allowed. Automatic or standard. No convertibles. Complete car must remain OEM STOCK. NO MODIFICATIONS OF ANY KIND.

2. BODIES: All upholstery, chrome emblems and glass must be removed. Doors must be welded shut. Holes in floor or firewall must be covered. No removal of any other components or parts. No gutting of metal, this includes hoods and trunks, hatchbacks. (Except on inside of doors for door bars) Factory Door plate must remain in place.

3. TIRES: Maximum 215/60,70 or 75 no 50 series tires. (No racing or aggressive tire allowed.. M+S RATING ACCEPTABLE. No altering, grooving etc. of tires. Rounding or pounding out fenders to allow for tire clearance allowed.no aluminun rims allowed

4. BRAKES: All 4 wheels must lock up.

5. DIFFS and transmission: Spider gears in diff. may be welded. No gutting of transmission it must function in all gears. RWD drive shafts must be painted white with drive shaft hoop or chain.

6. ENGINES: OEM stock 4-cyl or 3-cyl engines only. Maximum HORSEPOWER 140, Maximum TORQUE 140. (Factory Specs) Engines used must be 10 years old or older. Interchange of motors allowed within make & model only. No rotary motors. No RX7s. Carbureted or fuel injection. Exhaust must be directed under car. (NO MODIFICATIONS TO ENHANCE H.P., i.e. Computer chips)

7. BUMPERS: Must remain OEM stock and must be on car at the beginning of the race, (no sharp edges)

8. WINDSHIELD: Windshields must be removed and a heavy gauge screen with four 1/4-inch bars mounted in front of driver (top to bottom of window). Driver side quick release window net either mesh or ribbon mandatory

9. ROLLCAGE: The minimum roll cage allowed is one continuous hoop behind the driver's seat from the left floor to the roof, across the top and back down to the right side of the passenger seat.; one bar to run from top left of main hoop to bottom right of hoop and from top right to bottom left. One bar to run behind driver's seat for mounting seatbelts and seat. Two front roof bars of the same material as the main hoop to connect at the top of main hoop and extend forward to top of front window with an approximate 30° bend down toward lower part of the front window with an approximate 60° bend and connecting to the floor in the same place as the other bar. One center roof bar to run from windshield cross bar to main hoop . Two crossbars are to run at the top and bottom of front window. All bars must be .095 x 1.66 (1- 5/8 inch) round steel tubing only. Bars must tie into frame or a steel plate( min. 36 square inches per floor plate) bolted or welded to the floor or rear seat riser. Minimum plate thickness is 1/8 steel. A minimum of 3 horizontal door bars connected to the main cage with vertical bars equally spaced between them drivers side mandatory. Crush bar to be mounted from top hoop to top horizontal door bar . Passenger side crush bar to be mounted from top hoop to floor plate. If existing cage has door bars ON PASSENGER SIDE , crush bar can be mounted form top hoop to door bar. Bracing allowed between rear strut towers i.e. x-brace. One doorplate mounted on the outside of the driver's door optional . (Passenger bars or plate optional) must extend 6- inches past the door in either direction and centered on door.

10 SEAT: Racing approved metal seat and 5 piont race harness mandatory

11. BATTERY: must be securely mounted in engine compartment or in drivers compartment in a marine case .

12. FUEL SYSTEM: Pump gasoline only. Stock tanks in original position or one safety approved boat tank only (plastic or metal). Maximum fuel size 25 liters (6.6 US gal). Fuel tank mounted as close to the rear firewall as possible in the trunk area. Trunk area must be closed off from driver's compartment. Tank to be held down with two one-inch straps. Fuel line running through car must be steel; max. 3/8-inch. After-market electric fuel pumps allowed. Must have a shut-off switch clearly marked within the driver's reach.

13. SUSPENSION: Must remain OEM. NO modifications of any kind.

14. SAFETY: all cars must have two red clearance lights one in each corner of the back window Drivers must wear minimum of fire proof coveralls and lether gloves. Fullface helmet and eye protection mandatory.

The roll cage I'm hoping to tie into the shock towers to stiffen everything up.

The point of the thread is to hopefully get some knowledge on what I can do and better my chances of winning. I understand the point of this racing is to try and get equality, and to have fun, but I want to win, and I really enjoy playing Colin Chapman.

Obviously before any race I will need to comb the car over and change out parts that are not up to racing conditions. I plan to change the spark plugs and wires. If I need to change the coil, do you think it would be difficult to take the guts of an MSD coil and stick them into an OE ignition coil case?

One area I have been thinking about alot is tires. I think this is the most important bit. I have been wondering about staggering my tires. One of the crazy thoughts was to run a 60-series sidewall on the left front, a 65-series on the right front and left rear and a 70-series on the right rear, in hopes of helping the car turn, putting more weight on the front left and fighitng a little bit of body roll. Would this really do anything? I am also thinking of running the smallest diameter tire I can get away with. What kind of tire would work best on a wet clay? And one last thought popped in my head, would it make any sense to have differing tread widths for the tires? Having different sized tires doesn't make things much more difficult for me as I have a tire shop owner helping me here. Will this overstress my differential? Will it give me handling issues?

It's quite possible the car will need new shocks. I plan to start looking for lower cost 'performance' shocks, rather than trying to find some Monroe cheap-o stuff at the local parts supply store. If I can say find an affordable pair of Koni's, or Tokico's, would it be diffuclt to paint them black to give them to appearence of a off the shelf OE shock? I am also hoping to somehow change the bushings as well.

If I need to swap the clutch (it's the 4 speed) I am thinking of adding a lightweight aluminum flywheel. I'm willing to roll the dice regarding the scrutineers. Do you think it would have value? I reckon the more response I can get the better when coming off the corners, which is why tightening up the throttle linkage is another plan.

It is also possible with this car to swap up or down final gear ratios, depending what rev range I end up mostly being in.

Over winter was thinking of taking the motor apart and put in a new gasket set, complete with head gasket, and generally give it a clean, though I am thinking maybe I want to do this before the 100 lap race? I have a retired mechanic who can help me, and time shouldn't be an issue if I get the car in the next week or so. Anyways, over winter I want to shave the head a bit, but have to read up on that more for this engine.

I am also wanting to find a good OE radiator, and possibly see if I can hookup an oil cooler. Before the first race I am thinking of bolting a steel meshing infront of the rad in hopes to catch any rouge rocks. I want to replace all the coolant hoses and water pump as I am sure they are old, possibly install a bigger fan, and have been thinking of changing oil lines with braided hoses with new fittings, is this a worthwhile idea? Regarding oil, I am planning to baffle the oil pan (any tips on how to do a good baffle job?) and install a performance orientated oil pump. I'm not sure if the rules will allow any of this, but for me these are things to increase longevity so f#@ them.

What else do you think I will need to do to make the car last? What are some things I should do? I was told lasts year race only 3 of 20 some cars finished, so if I can keep out of trouble I think I can have a shot at it.


Also, I'm curious if it is possible to wire warning lights. For example, have a light come on if my oil pressure drops to a certain point, or my water tempurature reaches a certain tempurature.


What would you do if you were me??

Thanks for the help!

Edited by Nathan, 09 July 2009 - 22:39.

[wrighty]

Hi Nathan,
Firstly i'll apologise for being brief but i'll come back to this tomorrow when i have more time on my hands (its after midnight here) but we may be able to help just a little ;)

firstly......

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CHEAT

the rules are there and they're fairly explicit on what you can and can't do, so please don't think about silly things like trying to hide coil guts in cases and making zoomie dampers look like stock....they won't and you'll get caught so don't think about spending a load of time preparing a car so the scrutineer (tech) can look at it, and then look at you, and then look at your trailer......ok? The rules do say 'oem stock' .... got that?
If its rear-wheel drive (old beemer 320) on clay, i'd suggest you get races in before the 100-lapper and try some things.....the tyre regs allow for mud&snows, so certainly try and procure a pair of these for the rear of the car at least....standard treads will fill up pretty quickly with dirt and you'll lose all of your drive.....try the car with m&s's all round and then try them just on the rear. Also, given that you CANNOT MODIFY THE SUSPENSION i'd suggest getting some coil blocks and try blocks in the right front and left rear coils to stiffen them up.....this will allow you to utilise the weight transfer of braking and acceleration to either drop the weight to the inside front corner (during braking) or the outside rear corner for acceleration bite .
Think carefully about your rollcage design and dont skimp on a few kilos....make sure the latticework in the drivers door is to the rules and remember that the small amount of inside weight that'll give you will help anyway and it'll save you from having to peel your guts off the trans tunnel so make sure your rollcage is to the spec provided.
As much as you'll need to do to the car, your driving style will gain you more time.....sideways is not the fastest.....sure, pitch it in sideways while shouting yee-haa but get it straight and driving out of the turn as quick as you can, as the tyres will provide more drive going forwards than they ever do going sideways.....if they award prizes for driving style and panache then ignore this, but otherwise you need the traction.
Oh yeah, before i go to bed, i wouldn't think about using odd tyre sizes across the rear axle, you'll end up with a car that squirms everywhere.....stick with the same size tyres both sides on the rear and use the tyre pressures to your advantage (but again practice makes perfect here, so try before the big night and don't be scared of running off a load of fuel practicing on the day before the meeting if you can).
Ideally, in the rear axle, you'll have a limited slip differential, but if you have to it's preferable to used a locked (welded) diff compared to the standard (open) diff, as the open will spin away all your drive as soon as the weight comes off the inside tyre, but remember you'll need to drive it like you stole it if its a locked diff, theyre very crude (again, practice.....if you can take a slipper and a locked diff and swap them in the pits, do so, and if you can lay your hands on different ratio diffs to get the car juuuust touching the redline at the end of the straight then do that too.....if there isn't a lot of diffs available but you have a tyre man with a ready stock, then try different tyres on the rear axle to optimise your gearing)

i'll be back tomorrow ;)

[phantom II]

I think at oval tracks you always have prize money. At least that is how it is over here. Sounds like you have given it some thought. I say go for it. Staggered wheel diameters wont mess with the diff even on asphalt ovals. Aluminum flywheel won't do **** particularly if you drive smooth. Don't ever add weight. Oil pick up will be important. You may have to modify the oil pan. Put all the triangulation of the rollcage on the left hand side. If you want to go to V8s later, then go to them sooner. You can't take the knowledge of the former to to the latter especially if your start out with a FWD car. Can you install a live axle in the BMW. All answers will come to you in competition with experience and determination.
The best is to do what the winner does, first at your local track and then the regional winner. Become his friend or spy on him. Get a girl friend with big tits to ask him questions and forget Chapman, be like Smokey.

Hello all!! How is everyone today?

First, I apologies for any spelling errors, no Word and the spell check on the forum doesn't work for me.

I have been pondering what type of local racing to get into because I want to get into competitive motorsports. My choices were basically 1/3 mile oval racing, drag racing and karting. I have decided on the oval track racing as it seems cheaper and the most exciting, and also allows me to travel to more places. Most circle tracks have two series, mini stocks, which are 4 cylinders, and RWD V8s. I have decided on the former.

I am currently eyeballing a 1977 BMW 320i. Most of my competition will come from Escorts, Civic/Integras the odd Golf/Rabbit etc. To make things a bit more interesting we have a mix of both clay and asphalt tracks.

I am hoping to make it to one event before winter, a 100 lap endurance race (the last as well).

The rules dictate I must; remove all glass, strip the interior of everything but the dashboard, install a roll cage, aluminum race seat w/5 point harness, battery box, battery cut-off switch, driveshaft hoops and weld the doors shut.

I'm very limited in what I can do other than that, here are the rules...


The roll cage I'm hoping to tie into the shock towers to stiffen everything up.

The point of the thread is to hopefully get some knowledge on what I can do and better my chances of winning. I understand the point of this racing is to try and get equality, and to have fun, but I want to win, and I really enjoy playing Colin Chapman.

Obviously before any race I will need to comb the car over and change out parts that are not up to racing conditions. I plan to change the spark plugs and wires. If I need to change the coil, do you think it would be difficult to take the guts of an MSD coil and stick them into an OE ignition coil case?

One area I have been thinking about alot is tires. I think this is the most important bit. I have been wondering about staggering my tires. One of the crazy thoughts was to run a 60-series sidewall on the left front, a 65-series on the right front and left rear and a 70-series on the right rear, in hopes of helping the car turn, putting more weight on the front left and fighting a little bit of body roll. Would this really do anything? I am also thinking of running the smallest diameter tire I can get away with. What kind of tire would work best on a wet clay? And one last thought popped in my head, would it make any sense to have differing tread widths for the tires? Having different sized tires doesn't make things much more difficult for me as I have a tire shop owner helping me here. Will this overstress my differential? Will it give me handling issues?

It's quite possible the car will need new shocks. I plan to start looking for lower cost 'performance' shocks, rather than trying to find some Monroe cheap-o stuff at the local parts supply store. If I can say find an affordable pair of Koni's, or Tokico's, would it be diffuclt to paint them black to give them to appearence of a off the shelf OE shock? I am also hoping to somehow change the bushings as well.

If I need to swap the clutch (it's the 4 speed) I am thinking of adding a lightweight aluminum flywheel. I'm willing to roll the dice regarding the scrutineers. Do you think it would have value? I reckon the more response I can get the better when coming off the corners, which is why tightening up the throttle linkage is another plan.

It is also possible with this car to swap up or down final gear ratios, depending what rev range I end up mostly being in.

Over winter was thinking of taking the motor apart and put in a new gasket set, complete with head gasket, and generally give it a clean, though I am thinking maybe I want to do this before the 100 lap race? I have a retired mechanic who can help me, and time shouldn't be an issue if I get the car in the next week or so. Anyways, over winter I want to shave the head a bit, but have to read up on that more for this engine.

I am also wanting to find a good OE radiator, and possibly see if I can hookup an oil cooler. Before the first race I am thinking of bolting a steel meshing in front of the rad in hopes to catch any rouge rocks. I want to replace all the coolant hoses and water pump as I am sure they are old, possibly install a bigger fan, and have been thinking of changing oil lines with braided hoses with new fittings, is this a worthwhile idea? Regarding oil, I am planning to baffle the oil pan (any tips on how to do a good baffle job?) and install a performance orientated oil pump. I'm not sure if the rules will allow any of this, but for me these are things to increase longevity so f#@ them.

What else do you think I will need to do to make the car last? What are some things I should do? I was told lasts year race only 3 of 20 some cars finished, so if I can keep out of trouble I think I can have a shot at it.


Also, I'm curious if it is possible to wire warning lights. For example, have a light come on if my oil pressure drops to a certain point, or my water temperature reaches a certain temperature.


What would you do if you were me??

Thanks for the help!

[cheapracer]

I prepared a Civic that won the Bomber 4cyl class for a couple of years in my home City, 76 model which was quite standard actually. (Archerfield Speedway for the Ozians).

2 things were the key to it's success, those early Civics (dont know about later ones) have the ability to adjust the rear toe quite extremely so I had both the rears pointing quite severely to the left. The car crabbed badly of course up the straights but went around the corners like it was on rails and hugged the lower line without any drama, even the commentators over the loudspeakers commented how boring the car was to watch.

The other was a device I made up simpler than this but you get the idea, don't leave home without one!

http://www.stockcarr...tors/index.html

http://www.hrpworld....action=category

http://www.moroso.co...p?catcode=13600

Mine are "cheapracer" style though, merely an upside down 1.5 litre steel tube capped at each end with a line adaptor at 1 end, filled with steel gauze (stops foaming) and plumbed from a remote oil cooler adapter and the engine overfilled by 1 litre (depending in length of line). The bottle fills with oil using the trapped compressed air as the spring - works suprisingly well. The better retail ones have a floating piston to seperate the oil and air a well as a spring and shut off tap.

So if you go and find a lightweight front drive car that has major adjustment for rear toe I suggest you have a headstart.

Edited by cheapracer, 10 July 2009 - 05:28.

[ray b]

I would go to the local tracks and see what wins
and if they have a claiming rule before building a car
and if any already built cars are for sale

I met a local who ran a ford pinto in ministock
he claimed the extra cubes made them a winner
and alot of guys ran the pinto's
I suspect the BMW may be too big and heavy

[Nathan]

I would go to the local tracks and see what wins
and if they have a claiming rule before building a car
and if any already built cars are for sale

I met a local who ran a ford pinto in ministock
he claimed the extra cubes made them a winner
and alot of guys ran the pinto's
I suspect the BMW may be too big and heavy

The BMW weighs a bit over 1000kg in standard trim, which is about the weight of a Honda CRX.

Most guys use FWD cars. In one small town the car to beat the last few years has been a 1993 Ford Escort. There is also a 1992 Acura (Honda) Integra that is quite quick, but more often than not it breaks. Both cars weigh a few hundred pounds more.

I suspect few people use RWD because so few cheap 4 cylinder RWD cars exist around here. Ford Mustangs are pretty much the only viable option. BMWs tend to cost too much for the people who race around here. The reason I'm interested in this 320i is because the car was donated to the local Kidney Foundation by the family of a gentlemen who has been moved into a senior care home, and now I have the oppurtunity to buy it ($500 CDN, which is the maximum the foundation can sell a car for because of it's donation tax scheme).

It should be noted, racing around here is very small and most likely not at all comparable to anything in the United States, UK or Australia. I will be racing in two provinces (I'm in Canada), each are larger than France area wise, but both have around only a million people. I have yet to find a track that sees a dozen cars racing in this particular class. Infact, interest in racing around here is so small, my home city with about 200,000 people recently cancelled the mini stock class due to a lack of interest. So we are limited to small towns (15,000 people on the high end) and race a bunch of farmers.

So back to the BMW, because I have more important things to spend money on, and because I'd be suprised to ever get a purse payout, I want to keep my racing affordable. Parts are reasonable enough, the car looks simple. I also would like to have RWD because I want to learn RWD dynamics and not have to worry about CV joints

Thanks again everyone!

Edited by Nathan, 10 July 2009 - 23:05.

[Canuck]

AB or SK (or MB)?

[Nathan]

AB or SK (or MB)?

I'm in SK (Regina), but will be racing in both provinces.

[Peter Leversedge]

If you are going to race on a circle track I would suggest a sprint car would be the most fun.........

[ray b]

If you are going to race on a circle track I would suggest a sprint car would be the most fun.........

cost is about 2% to run a ministock vs sprint cars

[Nathan]

No sprint car racing where I am, and as said above, too expensive.

[gordmac]

Are you sure it is 4 cylinder? I thought these old BMWs were 6 cylinder.

[ray b]

Are you sure it is 4 cylinder? I thought these old BMWs were 6 cylinder.

the 1977 320i is a 4 at 2.0
later BMWs droped the 4's to 1.8
and later added a 2.0 6 that grew to 2.3 over time

USA did not get as many engine size options as euro's did
many models came with one size two at most
and many smaller options like a 5 with a 1.8 were never offered here