158 replies to this topic

[discover23]

Then Massa wasn't 5th. Trulli had more points. Your argument is invalid.

Standings after Germany - Massa's last race. And remember that Massa had a DNF in china where he was on his way to a podium finish.

1 United Kingdom Jenson Button 68
2 Germany Sebastian Vettel 47
3 Australia Mark Webber 45.5
4 Brazil Rubens Barrichello 44
5 Brazil Felipe Massa 22

[Skinnyguy]

there is just no evidence to support the claim that the car is ****. it is all subjective.. What is a **** car for some may not be a **** car for others.. A 3/4 best car on the grid is not a **** car in my book.

It depends on a lot of things. Examples:

If you´re in a team expecting to win the title, it IS a **** car.
If you´re in a team expecting to score a point here or there it´s not.

If the third/fourth car is from a team expecting to win titles, and it´s close to the first two ones (2003 McLaren, 2010 McLaren, 2012 Ferrari) and still allows you to challenge for races or titles, it´s no **** car.
If the third/fourth car is nowhere near the best ones (2006 McLaren, 2008 Renault, 2009 McLaren) and doesn´t allow any of that to happen, it´s a **** car.

[Skinnyguy]

Standings after Germany - Massa's last race. And remember that Massa had a DNF in china where he was on his way to a podium finish.

1 United Kingdom Jenson Button 68
2 Germany Sebastian Vettel 47
3 Australia Mark Webber 45.5
4 Brazil Rubens Barrichello 44
5 Brazil Felipe Massa 22

You need some background too. Read post 129.

Unless you think we can call Ferrari the best car overall by a huge margin up to Hungary GP in 2012.

[discover23]

If you´re in a team expecting to win the title, it IS a **** car.
If you´re in a team expecting to score a point here or there it´s not.

if that is your definition that is ok, that does not mean that everyone would agree with you on what a **** car really is.
And I don't think anyone here is putting down Kimi's performance in the second half of the year, the discussion started around what a **** car really is and since there are different interpretations depending on who you ask, there is really no point in discussing this further..

There is just a difference of opinion about that definition and based on that we can agree to disagree on Kimi's comments.

Edited by discover23, 14 May 2013 - 17:17.

[Skinnyguy]

There is just a difference of opinion about that definition and based on that we can agree to disagree on Kimi's comments.

Sure. It just happens I agree with 09 car being total ****, garbage or whatever if you actually think about the background. Expectations, previous years performance, the way they got their best results... it was **** for me, no doubt.

Screw Kimi´s comments, I disagree on a lot of stuff he says (example: his approach to canopies) but I think that if that description was indeed made by him, that we don´t know, it´s 100% precise.

[Trust]

there is just no evidence to support the claim that the car is ****. it is all subjective.. What is a **** car for some may not be a **** car for others.. A 3/4 best car on the grid is not a **** car in my book.

Well, Skinny explained what I meant. For Ferrari standards, it was a **** car. It wasn't a **** car like a backmarker.

[Jacobss]

C´mon Kingshark it´s normal you say some nonsense about 03, 05 or even 07 after all you were a kid, and it´s hard to get a decent image of pecking order using youtube and F1stats. I´ve seen full seasons from early 90´s and still don´t feel qualified to comment, so I don´t do. But in 09 you already had enough age to have a better memory to say this bullshit about the pecking order.

2009 car was indeed "****" for Ferrari standards. No "****" in the sense "it´s a backmarker", but IF that was said by Räikkönen, it´s a perfectly reasonable and objective thing to say. It was something similar to 2008 Renault in the sense that it was pretty bad for a part of the season and good enough in some places to steal a good result amongst chaos if some key cars were taken out/struggling. And that´s indeed a **** car for a team trying to win a title or at least contend and win several races.

Anyway, if you´re indeed interested on getting a proper idea on this topic (2009 pecking order), post number 129 will be enough to give you a proper overview. If you´re just trying to annoy people, good luck

This.

Finally someone described fanboyism by Kingshark. I cant stand this guy anymore. Everyone sees he's a child with too much time.

Edited by Jacobss, 14 May 2013 - 17:38.

[SpaMaster]

Stop being so reasonable.

My post was a fun kick to the nuts of spamaster who has delivered a litter of kittens when Alonso does it.

My last comment on this thread topic, back to 2013 for me. Anybody can PM me if it means that much to them.

I never said it is okay for Raikkonen to call the car sxxt in public. I was just pointing out to an Alonso fan how he is criticizing Raikkonen on this regard when his driver has been saying things like that non-stop over the past three years. And you are referring back the same in reverse? Hello! Where have I said it is okay for Raikkonen? Do you even follow the conversation or do you just wake up to something suddenly? Concentration! Concentration!! Try it when Raikkonen keeps repeating this and Alonso says it for the first time one fine day and I jump on it.

[OfficeLinebacker]

I quite like Schumacher's response to the interviewer when asked why Raikkonen doesn't go to him for advice.

Schumi just has a way with words. He's a natural communicator.