32 replies to this topic

[PMac]

As a keen watcher of the Bathurst 1000km in the early 80s, I was captivated by the name of Prince Leopold von Bayern. He shared, I believe, a Beemer with Denny Hulme in the race I recall. There's not much about him contained in this forum, apart from passing references.

Was he quick? Did he bring his own money? Was he a bona fide Prince? I'd be fascinated to know if any TNF-ers have any more details about him and his life.

[Rainer Nyberg]

As a keen watcher of the Bathurst 1000km in the early 80s, I was captivated by the name of Prince Leopold von Bayern. He shared, I believe, a Beemer with Denny Hulme in the race I recall. There's not much about him contained in this forum, apart from passing references.

Was he quick? Did he bring his own money? Was he a bona fide Prince? I'd be fascinated to know if any TNF-ers have any more details about him and his life.

While not spectacular, I remember him as a competent driver, and a classy guy.
I don't know if he brought any money, usually noblemen brings glamour, which attracts sponsorship.

Real prince indeed...google 'Prince Leopold von Bayern' and Wikipedia has some useful background on his ancestry.
Or 'Leopold Rupprecht Ludwig Ferdinand Adalbert Friedrich Maria et omnes sancti Prinz von Bayern' if you will

[rhegra]

There a lot of stories about "Drehopold" von Bayern (means turning Leopold), the only driver in the german DTM who got third coming on the roof over the finish-line (with a BMW M3 at the Berlin Avus), good driver, real gentleman, today working sometimes for BMW too.

[kayemod]

As I remember Denny Hulme, he had a very low tosser toleration threshold. He wouldn't have agreed to share a car with anyone who wasn't a pretty competent driver, so I'd guess that Leopold Rupprecht Ludwig Ferdinand Adalbert Friedrich Maria et omnes sancti Prinz von Bayern was turning in comparable lap times in the BMW they shared at Bathurst.

Edit, Impressive stuff in that Youtube link posted by wolf sun, it clearly wasn't money or a title that got him that drive.

Edited by kayemod, 27 July 2009 - 13:28.

[wolf sun]

Youtube clip of the above-mentioned Bathurst race - Poldi and Hulme, sharing the JPS-sponsored Bimmer - featuring onboard commentary as well!!!

Edited by wolf sun, 27 July 2009 - 12:36.

[Red Socks]

Youtube clip of the above-mentioned Bathurst race - Poldi and Hulme, sharing the JPS-sponsored Bimmer - featuring onboard commentary as well!!!

Didn't they share an 1800 Ti in the FIA Historic Touring Car series about 15 years ago as well- I'm sure I remember them at Silverstone Coys histroic Festival with Quester, Hahne etc ?

Edited by Red Socks, 27 July 2009 - 13:00.

[RCH]

Of no great significance in the overall order of things, Leopold would, but for the Act of Settlement (which banned Catholics from the British throne), be close to being King of England. His relative Duke Franz of Bavaria is considered by Jacobites (those who consider the present mob to be usurpers) to be King Francis II of England.

[alpine]

There a lot of stories about "Drehopold" von Bayern (means turning Leopold), the only driver in the german DTM who got third coming on the roof over the finish-line (with a BMW M3 at the Berlin Avus), good driver, real gentleman, today working sometimes for BMW too.

Wasn't this Dieter Quester, who was also driving an M3 in the DTM at about the same time as HRH (late 80s/early 90s)?
Though not absolutely top of the class, Leopold was a fairly decent driver, also at the wheel of Porsche 956/962.
I would rank him among the more experienced privateers, and as was said elsewhere, he did certainly not buy his drives nor was he chosen because of his name or the title or so.

And for the long list of names ... this was commonly found in the Royal house of Bavaria; Leopold being grand-grand-grandson (possibly forgot one or more "grands"?) of Ludwig I, King of Bavaria from 1806-1825, and a relative of Bavaria's fairytale king Ludwig II (1864-1886) who built among others castle Neuschwanstein ... have to stop now before coming OT ...

regards

alpine (from Bavaria, as you may have guessed by now ;-) )

[La Sarthe]

Many of his cars seemed to be sponsored by the Warsteiner brewery. Was there any family connection?

Peter

[taylov]

Many of his cars seemed to be sponsored by the Warsteiner brewery. Was there any family connection? Peter

Here's my favourite - at the Norisring in the Joest 908/80 in 1983.

Tony

Edited by taylov, 28 July 2009 - 08:26.

[ReWind]

"Drehopold" von Bayern (means turning Leopold)

“Spinning Leopold” should be a more apt translation.

Of no great significance in the overall order of things, Leopold would, but for the Act of Settlement (which banned Catholics from the British throne), be close to being King of England. His relative Duke Franz of Bavaria is considered by Jacobites (those who consider the present mob to be usurpers) to be King Francis II of England.

He claims that Queen Elizabeth II is his aunt (according to Eckhard Schimpf).

[D-Type]

......... He claims that Queen Elizabeth II is his aunt (according to Eckhard Schimpf).

I suspect there's a mistranslation here. The Queen will be his xth cousin y times removed.

Edited by D-Type, 27 July 2009 - 19:59.

[Arjan de Roos]

The prince is a regular at Le Mans Classic with a M1. Maybe next year he may be present again.

[Lee Nicolle]

I remember that he crashed quite heavily in practice. After that i think the car was walking wounded. I cant remember any results.

[Hank the Deuce]

I remember that he crashed quite heavily in practice. After that i think the car was walking wounded. I cant remember any results.

I think the car was second in class that year. Allan Grice insisted upon referring to him as "Count Von Hamburger" IIRC. I believe he had a directorship at BMW at that stage, which may have had more than a little to do with his appointment to the JPS BMW team that year.

Frank Gardner was apparently unimpressed with the damage inflicted upon the car in the practice crash, which he attributed to a combination of jet lag and "being 50 yards behind the action".

A few of the old stagers were a bit put out with him in practice for not using his mirrors too.

Anyhow, his presence enhanced the exotic feel of the Great Race that year - this, from the viewpoint of a high school kid, which I was at the time... it was Australia's first look at Group A, which would become our premier national touring car formula for 1985. TWR entered two Rovers (one of which won the class), so it was all a bit new and unusual.

Of course, the 1984 James Hardie 1000 would be little more than a minor and obscure footnote to the guy's life and career, but it's of interest to us Aussie tin-top types.

[Seanmac27]

I remember in the abortive 1987 Group A World Touring Car Championship he came to New Zealand and shared an M3 with Thomas von Lowis of Menar, and gained alot of TV attention because of both being the 2 Princes and having driven at Bathurst with Denny. The Princes took part also at Calder, but not Bathurst.

I note thta both at Bathurst in 84 and Calder/Wellington in '87 he was driving car No 62 is this a lucky number for him?

[Hank the Deuce]

I note thta both at Bathurst in 84 and Calder/Wellington in '87 he was driving car No 62 is this a lucky number for him?

Locally, the JPS BMW team used 31 for their lead car as a single entry and I assume they merely doubled it for their second entry at Bathurst... in 1985, their two-car team carried 31 & 62 until after the ATCC was run and won, and then the lead car got its #1.

Couldn't shed any light on 87 sorry...

[Rob Semmeling]

A little article about the prince by Rainer Braun (in German):

http://eu.goodyear.c...cm430-38071.pdf

[Arjan de Roos]

A little article about the prince by Rainer Braun (in German):

http://eu.goodyear.c...cm430-38071.pdf

Which translates to:

«Prince Full Throtlte»

Prince Leopold of Bavaria, his racing friends call him Poldi in short and with some disrespect, has continued his fast hobby for 35 years pretty consistently and successfully. The enthusiasm of the royal family was limited, but the full-Prince simply held on. After years in the wild Mini Cooper S in the 60s and the Super Formula VW in the 70s, the lasting home for Poldi was at BMW as a professional driver.
When he retired as a pro at 55 during a STW race at the Nürburgring in October 1998, he had some 25 years experience with BMW in all kinds of racing series behind his belt. For the Blue-White he drove everything that was important and good PR: DRM with the group-5-320, DRT with the M1, the M3 with DTM, Japanese and German STW with the 320i.
Dramatic incidents have been few - Only twice did he really get into trouble.
During a hill climb at Zotzenbach, he flew with his Mini Cooper into the first floor of an apple tree. And in 1994 during the 24 hours of the Nürburgring during the night when leading, he overtook, Jockel (Joachim) Winkelhock’s BMW in free flight over its rooftop and even tore of the bavarian’s windshield wipers. Poldis M3 was a write-off, the driver injured in the Adenauer hospital.
"But worst of all," he said, "was that during the incident my golden Rolex was torn of and the expensive thing never reappeared”. Other stories of the Bavarian blue blood as he experienced it can be read in his bestseller ”A prince explains”.
On Saturday, 21st of June [2003], Prince Poldi celebrates his 60th Birthday. Ever since he stopped professional racing his wife Uschi (in 1977 they married), his two sons Manuel (30) and Constantin (16) and
daughters Pilar (25) and Felipa (22) do see him more at their home in Berg am Starnberger Lake.
Still he did not sop altogether. For BMW Poldi is underway as ambassador as well as for the Deutsche Bank and Löwenbräu. For a couple of vintage Events, he also finds time including the annual mandatory Mille Miglia (this year with the BMW 328 and [King] Carl Gustav of Sweden as Co-driver). Additionally the off spring ensures that racing remains a part in their house in Bavaria: ”Constantin” Poldi says proudly, "is very talented and demonstrates it in karting. I hope one day he will also be a BMW factory driver.”

Edited by Arjan de Roos, 28 July 2009 - 07:44.

[Frank de Jong]

It was Quester, not von Bayern: Youtube

Edited by Frank de Jong, 28 July 2009 - 07:45.

[Arjan de Roos]

Also info here:

http://en.wikipedia....varia_(b._1943)

[Arjan de Roos]

Other stories of the Bavarian blue blood as he experienced it can be read in his bestseller ”A prince explains”.

Which was published in 1977 (!) (ISBN (10): 3796200656, German only) and will then not tell all his racing experiences, as one believes after reading Braun's piece.

[RCH]

I suspect there's a mistranslation here. The Queen will be his xth cousin y times removed.

I suspect as you say he would only be distantly related to the Queen but he may be a nephew of Philip (via the Battenburgs?) That would make the Queen his aunt.

[Arjan de Roos]

I suspect as you say he would only be distantly related to the Queen but he may be a nephew of Philip (via the Battenburgs?) That would make the Queen his aunt.

Most likely he is distantly related with modt royal families in Europe. When looking at his ancestry he is related to the Swedish king (a good friend), the Greek, the Spanish,... Maybe a royalty expert can explain to what degree he is a nephew.

[kayemod]

I suspect as you say he would only be distantly related to the Queen but he may be a nephew of Philip (via the Battenburgs?) That would make the Queen his aunt.

As long as he has no plausible claim on the UK Civil List, I'm not right mythered.

[RCH]

As long as he has no plausible claim on the UK Civil List, I'm not right mythered.

No neither am I really, not quite sure why I brought it up!

[RCH]

Most likely he is distantly related with modt royal families in Europe. When looking at his ancestry he is related to the Swedish king (a good friend), the Greek, the Spanish,... Maybe a royalty expert can explain to what degree he is a nephew.

Pretty well every royal in Europe is related thanks to Victoria's brood being married off all over the place. Curiously though none of them seems to have married into the Wittlesbachs which destroys my theory. it might just be coincidence but I wonder if in view of the Jacobite claim they thought such a marriage would be constitutionally difficult.

Why am I going on about this anyway! Forget I said anything!

[Pils1989]

Thanks for launching the topic PMac as I was just about to get into it, a school friend told me about his uncle Leopold two months ago.
I've forwarded him the thread

Edited by Pils1989, 29 July 2009 - 12:58.

[Arjan de Roos]

Why am I going on about this anyway! Forget I said anything!

Hehehe

[D-Type]

Most likely he is distantly related with most royal families in Europe. When looking at his ancestry he is related to the Swedish king (a good friend), the Greek, the Spanish,... Maybe a royalty expert can explain to what degree he is a nephew.

Let's sort out relationships

First we have siblings (brothers or brother and sister).

Their children are first cousins,
The children of first cousins are second cousins,
The children of second cousins are third cousins, etc

Now, if two relatives are a generation or two apart it gets fiddly

My father's brother is my uncle and I am his nephew
My grandfather's brother is my great uncle and I am his great nephew
so far so good
My father's first cousin is my first cousin once removed (I suppose more correctly one generation removed) and I in turn are his first cousin once removed (not second cousin or second cousin once removed.
My father's second cousin is my second cousin once removed etc
my Grandfather's first cousin is my first cousin twice removed etc

So almost any European royal is an nth cousin x times removed where n represents the shorter number of steps up the family tree you have to go to find two siblings and x is the generation difference.

Draw a family tree and it's clearer.

[Arjan de Roos]

Let's sort out relationships

D-type, this is a site on racing, not relationships

[D-Type]

D-type, this is a site on racing, not relationships ;)

I quite agree - I was trying to kill discussion on the "Is he the nephew of Queen Beatrice?" line so we can get backto discussing the important things - ie RACING.

[Arjan de Roos]

...so we can get backto discussing the important things - ie RACING.

The ONLY thing ;-)