57 replies to this topic

[Keir]

I guess that any negative mention of any driver will start a lively debate, so, here is my take on Alain Prost.

Sorry Nomad, I love you but, Prost is just not my kind of driver. I always gravitated toward the drivers that wore their hearts on their sleeves. Amon, Siffert, Rodriguez, Hawthorn, Collins, Senna, Hunt, Gilles, Ireland, Mairesse, Lauda(after 76), Gurney, Dreyfus. I think you get the idea.
In a sport that has so much passion, I foung Alain lacking. In the Senna vs Prost days, I was always firmly in the Senna camp. This is not to say that Prost wasn't a great driver, he was, the record speaks for itself. In fact, when Prost announced that he was going to start his own GP team, I for one, was very pleased. But even as an owner, Prost lacks the passion of his predecessor, Guy Ligier. I can't understand how someone so French, can be so dull!!!

OK, Nomad and Gents, let's kick this one around.

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"I Was Born Ready"

[Ray Bell]

In an era dotted with A. Jones and his outspoken comment, Gilles Villeneuve and his outspoken courage, Keke Rosberg and his outspoken driving, Nigel Mansell and his outspoken outspeaking, Ayrton Senna and his outspoken ability - just where does Prost fit in?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Marcel Schot]

Ray : how about outspoken calculating?

I can't recall a race in which Prost did anything more than strictly necessary to achieve the rest he had to achieve.

This especially after having seen the video of the 1985 Australian GP. Prost was already WC and seemed to be more or less cruising around the track until his engine gave up. Sure he overtook Surer, but only after Surer had overtaken him and spoiled his tyres early in the race, just like Berger.

[BRG]

Prost as a driver was an enigma. I was often infuriated by his apparent lack of passion and his apparent inability to pull out a quick lap for pole position or in the race and to overtake. Yet there have been few drivers who could drive so quickly, so consistently, so accurately and with so much mechanical sympathy. And the passion must have been there - you don’t walk into top F1 drives and win races and championships without it.

I feel that Niki Lauda and Damon Hill were similar drivers. These were not racers in the Gilles Villeneuve style but both achieved better results than most of the "real" racers to whom we often compare them unfavourably. I imagine that both Prost, Hill or Lauda would have made terrific oval circuit racers where smoothness and planning count for so much.

Now I didn’t much enjoy Prost as a driver, but I respected his approach and his successes. And he always seemed to be a sportsman and a gentleman and came across (on TV at least) as a genuine person, with a quiet dignity and a nice gentle sense of humour (and all when speaking in English as well).
The world would be a sadder place if we were all the same and if every F1 driver was a fire eating superhero. There is room for both brains and brawn. The passionate approach versus the calculating approach has always been a feature of motor racing.

What I can’t understand is how Prost is making such a dog’s dinner of running his team - if there was anyone that you would have put money on succeeding in F1 management, it would have been him.


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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Marcel Schot]

Well, what's the use of pulling out a quick qualifying lap when you're competing against Ayrton Senna? Even if Prost would have done it, Senna would have been triple determined to break it and knowing how Senna studied his laps, the track and his rivals' laps, he'd have pulled it off too. To try and beat Senna in qualifying was like trying to swim upstream... and Alain prost simply was no salmon

While on the subject of Senna, I feel that part of his heroism is due to Prost. Without an archrival like him, Senna would have dominated F1 for years and he would probably have a more Schumacher-like imagine nowadays: extremely talented, but scarred by the moments in which he refused to accept defeat where he should have.

Niki Lauda ofcourse has been Prost's prime example in developing his driving style.

On Prost making a dog's dinner of running his team : question is "is it Prost who's making dinner?". The main problem seems to be the engines, but it's widely known that Prost + Peugeot = France. I think that once those troubles are resolved, Team Prost could have a very good season after all, with old fox Jean teaching young gun Nick the tricks of the trade. Maybe Heidfeld won't harvest this season rightaway, but the kid's got potential for sure.

[BRG]

Marcel

Well, Prost is meant to be the chef (oh, that’s a sort of Anglo-French pun!) so he should be doing the cooking. But I agree that French patriotic sentiments are a real obstacle for him. There has long been a desire for a French super-team, but if the Prost team is it, it is much less super than Renault, Matra and Ligier were.

Alain needs to tell Peugeot to produce the goods or give up and given their efforts in rallying, it’s likely to be the latter. Of course , then he will be under pressure to join up with Renault. It is a shame because Prost never seemed to consider himself a French driver who had to drive for a French team - he was always pragmatic about such things. If he had a free hand, I agree he would be able to feed the dog a much better meal!

As for this season, I see little hope of any surprises. I fear that Prost has sunk as Arrows has risen, and will be hanging about with Minardi at the back of the grid. Alesi will quickly lose interest and motivation. Heidfeld will do his best - his was a very good effort in Australia, to finish in a car that was an absolute and total dog took some real skill and determination - but he will be looking to get his seat at McLaren soon.


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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[davo]

Prost is certainly enigmatic. He must have had a personal passion for F1 for he is certainly dedicating a large part of his life to it. However I do agree it is frustratingly difficult to see his passion.

I am guessing Pironi's crash into him at Hockenheim, the Canadian fatality (the name escapes me), and any other deaths and serious crashes would have had a significant impact on his attitude.

I admire his pragmatism in dealing with Sennas speed and cannot help but be astonished at the fact he is a multiple champion having lost three championships only narrowly - more points, half a point less, and one point less.

It would have been interesting to see where Senna went when he was no longer the faster man on the track. Perhaps we will get to see this with MS.

[Duane]

I don't where you guys were in 81 to 86, but Alain was certainly capable of putting in a quick one off qualifying lap. Lauda even mentions that in a book (or two)! The McLarens of the time never had Qualifying engines like many of the others, and never even turned the boost up for qualifying, yet Prost was often on the front row. That, without even mentioning his speed in the Renaults. You all seem to forget that before Senna, Prost was generally acknowledged (with Piquet in a Brabham) as being the fastest thing going. The tactical style didn't develop until he was teamed with, abd beaten by, Lauda in 84.

[Ray Bell]

It was Paletti in Canada.
There were times when the McLarens - Prost and Watson - were right down the grid, too. In fact, one of them won the US GP West one year from the last row of the grid because of their inability to qualify compared to the other cars.
But that was in the days there was passing on the track...

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[This message has been edited by Ray Bell (edited 03-16-2000).]

[Marcel Schot]

Duane : Ofcourse Prost was fast, but he hardly ever showed it in qualifying, even in the 1981-1986 period. I've taken a look at poles for that era:
1981 : 2 (Patrese 1, Piquet 4, Villeneuve 1, Reutemann 2, Laffite 1, Arnoux* 4) (Arrows 1, Brabham 4, Ferrari 1, Ligier 1, Renault* 6, Williams 2)
1982 : 5 (Arnoux* 5, de Cesaris 1, Pironi 2, Rosberg 1, Piquet 1, Andretti 1) (Renault* 10, Alfa Romeo 1, Ferrari 3, Brabham 1, Williams 1)
1983 : 3 (Rosberg 1, Tambay 4, Arnoux 4, Piquet 1, Patrese 1, de Angelis 1) (Williams 1, Ferrari 8, Renault* 3, Brabham 2, Lotus 1)
1984 : 3 (de Angelis 1, Piquet 9, Alboreto 1, Tambay 1, Mansell 1) (Lotus 2, Brabham 9, Ferrari 1, McLaren* 3, Renault 1)
1985 : 2 (Alboreto 1, Senna 7, de Angelis 1, Rosberg 2, Fabi 1, Piquet 1, Mansell 1) (Ferrari 1, Lotus 10, Williams 3, McLaren* 2, Brabham 1, Toleman 1)
1986 : 1 (Senna 8, Piquet 2, Mansell 2, Rosberg* 1, Fabi 2) (Lotus 8, McLaren* 2, Williams 4, Benetton 2)

First number is Prost's number of poles, then the other polesitters (* is Prost's teammate) and the poles per team (* is Prost's team)

1981 : Out-poled by his teammate
1982 : Renault absolutely overpowering in qualifying, Prost on par with his teammate. I think we can say that these poles were more due to the car than to Prost
1983 : This is a good performance ofcourse. The Ferrari's were overpowering the field, yet Prost managed 3 poles
1984 : Piquet all over, but it's the only season in which Piquet qualified very well.
1985 : young Senna emerges and leaves everyone behind in his first year in a half decent car
1986 : again Senna
1987 - 1992 : Senna era + 1 year of Mansell. In both 1992 and 1993 Williams is extremely much stronger than the rest, resulting in...
1993 : Prost scoring 13 poles. Again, more of a car performance than a driver performance

I truly do respect Alain Prost, but he wasn't a top qualifier at any stage during his career (except maybe 1983, but there he was largely outdone by the Ferrari's due to circumstances beyond his reach). Prost was simply a man who spared his tyres even in qualifying, because he knew very well that his consistency and ability to finish races would give him the necessary points.

[f li]

Perhaps, Prost was altogether too aware of his fellow countrymen, J Behra and P Levegh. Both drove with their hearts --- leaving legends (and wrecks) and little more. What is wrong with winning in the Fangio style anyway? Perhaps, you like Frank Williams prefer "racers" to winners?

[Keir]

F li,
But fangio had passion!!!
Like I said, Prost is just not my kind of driver. Neither was Mansell, or Stewart.
Winners, yes, but sometimes you have to strive for more than victory to win a few hearts.

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"I Was Born Ready"

[Duane]

Hey Marcel,
Good info. I forgot all about poor old Arnoux (that guy was quick when he was on) - and he was always one of my favs!
Prost isn't one of favorites either, however I just seem to remember him always being near the front, even at the start. How does he fare on front row placings? I seem to recall him starting beside Piquet for most of 84?

[f li]

Let's learn to use www.forix.com!

Prost
199 races 202 presences
33 poles 86 front row starts
41 fastest laps --- resulting in
51 wins 106 podiums


Keir, does J. Clark's debut of the 23 with the TwinCam at the Ring qualify as driving with your heart? (He has the highest wins/podium finishes of any driver!) Or his unlapping himself and stormed into the lead at Monza? But he certainly wasn't driving with his heart when he took the H-16 to its only victory!

[Marcel Schot]

Same stats with front rows:
1981 : 5 (Jones 3, Reutemann 6, Piquet 5, Villeneuve 2, Watson 1, Arnoux 6, Patrese 1, Laffite 1) (Williams 9, Renault 11, Brabham 5, Ferrari 2, McLaren 1, Arrows 1, Ligier 1)
1982 : 9 (Piquet 3, Villeneuve 1, Lauda 1, Arnoux 9, Patrese 3, de Cesaris 2, Pironi 2, Rosberg 1, Andretti 1) (Renault 18, Brabham 5, Ferrari 4, McLaren 1, Alfa Romeo 2, Williams 1)
1983 : 5 (Arnoux 8, Cheever 1, Piquet 4, Tambay 8, Patrese 2, Rosberg 1, de Angelis 1) (Renault 6, Ferrari 16, Brabham 6, Williams 1, Lotus 1)
1984 : 11(Alboreto 2, Rosberg 1, Arnoux 1, de Angelis 4, Mansell 2, Piquet 10, Tambay 1) (McLaren 11, Ferrari 3, Williams 1, Lotus 6, Brabham 10, Renault 1)
1985 : 3 (Rosberg 6, Mansell 5, Senna 10, Piquet 3, Johansson 1, Alboreto 1, de Angelis 1, Fabi 1) (Williams 11, McLaren 3, Lotus 11, Brabham 3, Ferrari 2, Toleman 1)
1986 : 3 (Piquet 8, Mansell 7, Berger 2, Senna 9, Rosberg 1, Fabi 2) (Williams 15, Benetton 4, Lotus 9, McLaren 4)

Also I made a little error in the previous post : 1985, Lotus poles : Senna (7)+ de Angelis (1) is ofcourse 8 and not 10

1984 was indeed the Prost and Piquet show

What also strikes me now is that from 1983 to 1986 Prost was almost the only front row scorer on his team. Lets see if he had bad teammates then...

1983 : Eddie Cheever
1984 : Niki Lauda
1985 : Niki Lauda
1986 : Keke Rosberg

Hmmm... 3 years with a World Champion aside and a year with an Indycar driver...not what I'd call 100% bad. Ofcourse, except for the Indyman, they were on their way out of F1.

[Racer.Demon]

Marcel,

41 fastest laps! That's an all-time record, championship-wise.

Guess that's being fast when it matters.

(Ayrton managed only 19.)

A direct comparison in the '88-'89 seasons sees 12 to 6 in favour of Alain.

Only Schumacher comes close these days and will eventually beat Prost's record (probably next season). Remarkably, while everyone likes to compare Schumacher to Senna, MS is also quite low on poles, with his sequential 'best car' opponents Hill, Villeneuve and Hakkinen taking most of the Saturday glory. Just as Prost, MS is the Sunday man.

Yet because of his attacking style (as opposed to the clinical Prost or Lauda approach) and his supposed arrogance (agnostic rather than religiously led) he is most often compared to Senna, while the figures show he isn't the pole monster Ayrton was. In this respect he is much more like Prost.

Cheers,
M.

[Keir]

Jim Clark always drove with his heart, it's what set him apart from his fellow drivers.
Just like Fangio, Jim always had a little something extra to bring to the fight.

It's called HEART!!!!

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"I Was Born Ready"

[f li]

Keir,

Actually, he had a little less to bring with him to each fight - he didn't carry the nick name "Wee Jimmy" because he was overweight! Didn't the min. weight rules back then exclude the driver?

[CVAndrw]

Maybe there’s more than one Prost to psychoanalyze here! The Prost who came blazing out of F3 in 1979 and almost immediately followed his heart by jumping ship to Renault didn’t seem particularly lacking in Gallic fire or passion (even if, according to certain totally unsubstantiated rumours, his Gallic passion was eventually concentrated upon the wife of one Gerard Larrousse). It was only after being taught two successive lessons he’d never forget by Piquet and Lauda that he settled down and transformed himself into The Professor.

And you might ask Max Mosely for an opinion- if you’ll recall Alain’s difficulties vis a vis the FIA and his passionate Gallic mouth in 1993, there still seems a certain emotional fire bubbling up from time to time. One wall I’d certainly like to be a fly on these days would be certain conference rooms at the headquarters of Peugeot’s racing division.

[magnum]

I feel the same about Prost - "boring" - although I was on his side in 1990 since he drove a red car.
One thing, though, he was very smooth. I recall sitting at Crowthorne in Kyalami and watching Senna and Prost at this bend - Senna was blipping the throttle constantly (Crowthorne is a funny apex'd corner - really have to wait for it to open up) - really amazing, and he was the only guy to do that. But Prost, unlike the rest, was so unbelievably smooth. He'd find the accelerating spot and ease that power in without so much as a hesitant breath - and he'd do it for lap after lap after lap. Watching those guys was really the most fascinating thing - my brother and I spent a whole afternoon and when Senna came round we'd just exchange a smile - Senna was so LATE on the brakes into Crowthorne and that throttle was truly alive.

[Keir]

F li,
The "Wee Scot" is Jackie Stewart.
Jim Clark was 5ft 6ins. and 135 lbs.
quite normal.

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"I Was Born Ready"

[Fast One]

Although I was never a "fan" of Prost, I have to say that for sustained excellence over a career, he is hard to beat. No one else ever was so good so long. Granted, part of that was safer cars and tracks, and part was luck (Clark never drove over the edge either...), but except for Fangio, no one else was as good at winning titles, which is, like it or not, the aim in Grand Prix racing.

Prost didn't need to win ppoles to be WDC. He didn't NEED to win every race, and probably passed on some wins he could have had because he calculated the win was not worth the risk in terms of the championship. He has always seemed a bit of a finger pointer to me but I never saw him as passionless. Senna was driven to win every race, and that was exciting and admirable, but I never thought that Senna thought about the title until the last race, when he looked around to see who was still standing, or until he clinched it, at which point he seemed to realize he was champion as an afterthought. For him it was each race, one at a time.

Prost was a different animal. It was always the title he thought of and only the title. If he decided he could take you, he'd go for the throat, if not, he'd get what he could and try you again next time. He won four titles, could have won more, and he lived! What's wrong with that? Isn't that the idea?

Gilles Villeneuve (for example) was always balls out, always spectacular, seldom successful, and soon dead. Like Rindt, I never thought much of him, other than he was an accident waiting to happen. A lot of drivers died in accidents, but Rindt and Villeneuve are the only two guys I ever saw that I thought went out looking for it.

Look, I loved Clay Reggazoni, but I could see that Lauda was the better driver. I never loved Prost, but I can see he was great. Not as great as Senna in a given race, perhaps, but over the course of a season and a career, arguably better.

[davo]

DUANE

Didn't want to be seen as suggesting Prost was a slouch in qualifying. He wasn't but by the end of his career he was publicly admiting that Senna was consistently quicker than he over one lap.

I think all of the drivers who get into F1 on merit believe that they either are or could soon be the quickest on the track.

What I find fascinating is what they do when they realise they are not. Prost could with a different roll of the dice been a 7 times champ - they would have to have been French dice of course.

33 poles
41 fastest laps
51 wins

In a total of

4 championships

For me that (the ascending numbers of poles/laps/wins) sums up Prost perfectly - he drove to win, win championships.

[RAD]

Davo,
Remember it was the Frenchman JB that called the '84 soaked Monaco race as AS caught up with AP. AP only recieved half points and as a result, he lost by 1/2 point to Lauda. That's irony.

[Ray Bell]

Was not that half a point more than the four points he would have got for third after Senna and Bellof passed him?
But then, maybe Bellof would not have got past?
Nice conjecture around this point...

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Barry Lake]

Good point, Ray.
People seem to forget that in that race, in the rain, Stefan Bellof was catching Senna as quickly as Senna was catching Prost.
I was in Norway driving Volvos when that race was on, up near North Cape where there was no TV reception. Someone from Volvo flew up from Sweden the next day with a video of the race and we all watched it together as though it was live. I was disappointed the race didn't run its course because it was beginning to look very interesting indeed.

[Marco94]

Prost indeed did have passion! He just didn't scream and shout to much. Do any of remember the Suzuka 1987. Prost had a puncture was lapped by Berger by a big margin. Once Prost had new tires however, he started driving unbelievable laptimes. He unlapped himself! His fastest lap that day (also the fastest lap), was 1.7 s quicker then #2. And all that to finish 7th. Or Hungary 1993. After 7 laps in the pitlane with some problems (can't remember what), he drove out and again set the fastest lap. This tiem only 0.8 quicker then #2, but riving for 12th position. No passion. Lots of it if you ask me.

Personally, I found his driving still brilliant, and as an vehicle dynamics engineer I can only say he was most efficient. Poetic would be the best discription. Jensen Button reminds me of Prost. So he may be something to look forward to.

Marco.

[Jonathan]

Rad -

Remember it was the Frenchman JB that called the '84 soaked Monaco race.

Huh ? I always thought that Jacky Icks called the race ? I still remember Alain saying something like it was "too dangerous" to continue the race, and feeling cheated.

I don't know if the Toleman would have even lasted the full race distance, but I would have loved to see it try...

[Nomad]

It is best to remember that I was a mere 8 year old when I started to support Prost. My reasons were entirely emotional. He has the same first name as my father and my father was my hero.
I admired his lack of passion. His ability to separate the emotion from the job in hand. It was something that I wished to achieve. I also admired him for refusing to race when he considered the conditions too bad. Some would call it cowardice but I considered it to be a brave move.

[Marcel Schot]

Jonathan : it was indeed Jackie Ickx who flagged the race. However, there's 2 points to be noted:

1) Ickx drove with Porsche in de Sportscar Championship, the same Porsche that supplied Alain Prost's McLaren with engines
2) To what extent does the race director take a decision to stop a race? We can only guess on whether this was just Ickx' decision or that he was pressured from above (read Balestre) to stop it.

Also, Stefan Bellof was catching Senna at the same pace Senna was catching Prost, so Bellof might have gotten the win after all. In the end he wouldn't have ofcourse, as we all know of the conspiracy against Tyrrell that led to the disqualification of all their results that season.

[BRG]

Hey, Marcel, aren’t you getting into the realms of conspiracy theory?

Firstly, the Porsche link is pretty tenuous. Porsche never really seemed to regard the TAG engine as a Porsche product, just a paid contract job. I don’t think it was ever badged as a Porsche. Did the car even carry a Porsche credit? I don’t think so, but I may be wrong.

Secondly, whilst J-M Balestre was capable of almost anything (and often did it), would even he have sought to favour a fellow Frenchman so blatantly? Prost was never his buddy, if anything he was a thorn in Balestre’s side. I prefer to think that Jacky Ickx, who as we know was a master of wet-weather driving took a informed decision, based on his own experience, that conditions were getting too dangerous and stopped the race. That was the duty of the Race Director, and he did it. As a Belgian, I doubt if he would have favoured a French driver over a Brazilian - to my knowledge, the Brazilians do not tell jokes about the Belgians unlike the French!

Of course Senna felt robbed, but his judgement of the relative safety of wet races was very suspect - remember his performance at Adelaide a few years later when he drove briskly into the back of another car (a feat that Schumacher repeated even more impressively at Spa). Drivers in a wet race are not the best people to judge on safety; indeed, if they start asking for it to be stopped, it usually means that the race has already been allowed to run too long.

Finally, the conspiracy about Tyrell?? Would that be when they were caught cheating?


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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Marcel Schot]

Well, it's not my theory, it's a theory that has been floating through history ever since that race.

The car indeed didn't carry the Porsche badge, but as we know from recent years, the badge on the engine doesn't say much really.

It's also my take that Ickx took an informed decision, but it was a matter of when exactly the decision had to be taken. It was only a matter of laps before Senna and Bellof would have caught Prost.

Anyway, whatever happened happened. Every way you look at it, Senna and Bellof made more history that race than Prost, so they share a moral win.

[Duane]

Wasn't 'Porsche' written along the side of some of the turbo's plumbing in the indunction area?

[Ray Bell]

Hasn't Desmo posted a picture of the V6 in the 'What is it' thread?

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Marcel Schot]

Duane : oops, stupid me. it is. On the other hand, with the huge TAG logo below, it gets a little pushed aside.

Ray : yep

[Jonathan]

Marcel Schot

I didn't mean to imply that Jackie was corrupt. I have a great deal of respect for him and his judgement.

Have said that, let me say the following:

My understanding is that Senna had already past Prost for the lead when the race was red flagged and that the final finishing positions therefore reverted to the lap BEFORE the race had been flagged.

No wonder Senna felt Cheated by the outcome of this race !

While at the time I perceived Prost's statement that the race had become "too dangerous" as being self-serving and a bit hard to swallow (it appeared to me that the rain had actually if anything let-up a little), I think in retrospect may have been intended more to keep the publics confidence in F1 racing than in anything else.

[Ray Bell]

Meanwhile, alongside Murray Walker, James Hunt announced that it was 'pissing down!'

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Leif Snellman]

Of course Monaco 1984 was not the first incident of its kind. At the Swiss GP 1982 at Dijon they tried to stop the race at lap 78 as Rosberg was catching Prost. Peter Collins from the Williams team managed to grab the chequered flag from the flagman after a wrestling match. Then the flagman refused to flag off the race as Rosberg was leading, possibly hoping for the fuel trouble for the Williams car on the last lap. (Rosberg's guess, not mine) So the race went on for 81 laps instead of 80.

The Tyrrell disqualification was a typical Balestre trick. The team used a water injection system whitch pumped water from a tank over the air intake trumpets. Now, at the Detroit GP a sample was taken from the water tank. I don't have the exact numbers available but the idea something like this: 99.99 % was pure water and 0.01 % was impurities in solid form. Of the impurities 1% was such stuff that possibly could be
considered performace improving. So FISA simply ignored the 99.99% and announced that the Tyrrell team was disqualificated as they were spraying their engines with a liquid of which 1% was illegal stuff.


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Leif Snellman
The Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman

[Duane]

Monaco 84 ended with the red flag being shown at the finish line, meaning that the race actually had ended at the end of the previous lap. Prost saw the flag and stopped at the finish line, then Senna rocketed by only to find that the race had been red flagged and had actually ended on the lap before.

[Marcel Schot]

Jonathan : I too believe Jackie on his own wouldn't be corrupt in any way, he's too much a racer for that. But there are higher powers, which can apply pressure, in this case this could have been Porsche and/or Balestre, but we will never know for sure if and to what extend they were responsible for the ending of the race at the particular time it was ended. Unless ofcourse one of the parties concerned drops in here

[Leif Snellman]

If I remember right then BOTH the chequered flag and the red flag were shown at the same time at Monaco 84, but that it was decided that the red flag had higher priority. Can anyone confirm?

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Leif Snellman
The Golden Era of Grand Prix Racing
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman

[Duane]

Actually, that sounds correct.

I've got a copy of the 84 season review on tape. It shows the Red flag at Monaco so I'll check it out tonight.

[Todd]

BRG,

Firstly, the Porsche link is pretty tenuous. Porsche never really seemed to regard the TAG engine as a Porsche product, just a paid contract job. I don’t think it was ever badged as a Porsche. Did the car even carry a Porsche credit? I don’t think so, but I may be wrong.

Porsche used the F1 engine in their advertising in the US during that period. I have a number of pieces of Porsche literature from the '85-'88 period including Christophorus magazines which have pictures and stories tying Porsche's consumer products to their F1 success. They did tend to use the 962 more though.

[Bjorn]

Alright... Now, speaking of heart, who of the current F1 drivers would you say 'had it'? I can only think of Jean Alesi, but everyone else is so... methodical, somehow? Any comments?

Bjorn

(PS. Yeah, I know, this is the nostalgia column, and modern drivers shouldn't even be mentioned here But I'm looking for comparison, so I think this question is quite fitting ..)

[BRG]

Bjorn, don’t worry about it, we’re very easy-going and polite in this Forum!

"Heart"? Well, that is a commodity that has been in short supply in F1 for a long time. This has been a professional sport for 30 plus years and there has been little (and increasingly less) tolerance for the emotional rather than the clinical approach. Jean Alesi certainly seems to drive more with his heart than his head but he is a rarity in the annals of F1.

You need a great desire to succeed before you can get into F1 and that means a real enthusiasm for racing. No-one decides on a career as a racing driver to get rich, so they are all driven by their hearts at that point. But to get through the ranks and into F1, they have to show technical ability and promotional and presentational skills as well. The ones that get through will not often be the Alesi-types.

But I guess Vittorio Brambilla and Gilles Villeneuve were definite "heart" drivers, and perhaps Rene Arnoux, Ronnie Peterson and James Hunt. Going further back, they may have been more common, but it is not so much of my era - perhaps others could comment?


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BRG

"all the time, maximum attack"

[Ray Bell]

Perhaps Elio de Angelis - don't you love that story of the strike and the piano in Sth Africa?
Keke Rosberg, of course, and the finish between them Austria.
But why has poor old Nige been forgotten in this quest for heart. The Italians didn't call him the lion for nothing!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Keir]

With Nige there was always a little too much whine along with the heart!!!!

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"I Was Born Ready"

[Duane]

Poor old Nige, that's a laugh!

[FlagMan]

One or two points

Just because it has stopped raining doesn't necesarily make it safer - visibilty tends to worsen after the rain stops - whilst the rain is falling it removes spray from the air - look at videos of the '98 British GP.

Monaco is on the side of a hill - water continues to flow down the hill and across the track after the rain stops - this can make it more dangerous than during heavy rain - instead of having a constant wet surface you get wet and dry (or maybe wet and wetter parts)

I guess Ickx had a very difficult choice to make - whatever he did would have been criticisd from one side or another - at least he had experience of racing - unlike some race directors....

On the subject of Prost - I have to admit to being a fan - I think it was the contrast between him and another of my favorites of the time - Rosberg.

I think Magnum summed it up - Prost was so smooth that it was difficult to tell when he was going fast - I remember qualifying for a Silverstone GP when I was near Luffield - you could only tell Prosts fast laps by listening to how long he was on the throttle between Luffied 1 and Luffield 2.

[ZippyD]

What sort of whine would go with heart? Red, white or perhaps a rose?

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"Pete, Do you sometimes get tired? Of the driving? Lately I have been getting tired. Very tired."