Jump to content


Photo

Jack Brabham - 50 years on...


  • Please log in to reply
190 replies to this topic

#151 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 66,358 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 22 June 2013 - 21:43

Yes, that was the norm at Longford...

Is there any chance you could photograph that report and forward it to me, Andrew? Not too big a file size.

Advertisement

#152 malbear

malbear
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 22 June 2013 - 22:30

I have not heard of this brand. Where was it manufactured?

It was made in Adelaide by Castaloy New castaloy
The old firm went bust but it seems to now be a Harley Davidson wheel manufacturer.
the body shape is like this

Jack Brabhams midget

It is about a foot long and 4" wide When I work out how to insert a photo I will
cheers malcolm Beare
Chriss last time I looked I did not mind if the toilet seat is UP

Edited by malbear, 22 June 2013 - 22:38.


#153 austmcreg

austmcreg
  • Member

  • 316 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 22 June 2013 - 22:59

They certainly had decent reports week by week...

Another source I would like to see would be the soon-to-be-defunct AutonNews weekly that came out for the two months of that series.

I have all the Autosport reports - no lap charts. I also have the Autonews report - nothing doing there either. That had the potential to be a good magazine - a bit more depth than most but I suspect the large format cost them a bit.

The 1965 Motor Racing Annual had a basic chart which shows position changes only, but what I want is the lap times, which I think only the official chart is going to give me. That chart shows that P.Hill and J.Clark swapped position 5 times.

Anyway, back to Brabham....... Maybe we should start a seperate thread on this one race if there is enough interest.

Rob Saward

#154 275 GTB-4

275 GTB-4
  • Member

  • 8,274 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:07

I have all the Autosport reports - no lap charts. I also have the Autonews report - nothing doing there either. That had the potential to be a good magazine - a bit more depth than most but I suspect the large format cost them a bit.

The 1965 Motor Racing Annual had a basic chart which shows position changes only, but what I want is the lap times, which I think only the official chart is going to give me. That chart shows that P.Hill and J.Clark swapped position 5 times.

Anyway, back to Brabham....... Maybe we should start a seperate thread on this one race if there is enough interest.

Rob Saward


1965 Snippets for Rob :)

FOCA formed
Wee Jackie started with BRM for 4,000 pounds and 200 a win until he was eligible for prize money. First win in the Italian GP. Tasman Champion.
Chapman asked Costin and Duckworth for a new engine to replace Coventry Climax (who finished up at the end of the season, last year of 1500cc) and stumped up 100,000 pounds seed money.
Clarke wins Indy
Longford results Stewart, Hill (BRMs) then Brabham.

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 23 June 2013 - 01:08.


#155 austmcreg

austmcreg
  • Member

  • 316 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:51

Jack Brabham honed his talent at preparing a car for both speed and reliability in Australia well before he went to England - I came across this just recently in the Australian Motor Sports magazine, April 1953, in their report on the 22/3/53 Mt Druitt race meeting, where Brabham had won four races in his Cooper Mk IV Vincent. The context is that, at the time, Australian short circuit events were being dominated by Coopers with either Vincent or JAP engines of 1000cc or 1100cc, but while very fast, no-one seemed to be able to get them to run at that speed for long - retirement rates were high.

The report noted: "One of the most amazing sights seen in New South Wales for a long time occurred at this Mt Druitt meeting, when four Coopers all got going at once to put on some fine close racing during the day. Keeping up with the bad reputation of these cars for reliability, three of them performed somewhat erratically as the day wore on, but that of Jack Brabham kept running on like a chaff cutter and scored four wins and a second from five starts. Brabham's preparation of his HRD Vincent engined car was a personal tour de force for repeating last months efforts, on this course the car ran well all day and counting in the two meetings has now done over 200 miles without missing a beat. This must be some kind of record. His perserverence with this car, which has heart-breakingly played up and broken things more or less continuously for over 6 months, has been well rewarded."

A few weeks later, prior to the Orange meeting Brabham had helped to get one of his Cooper competitors , Ash Marshall out of trouble with JAP engine parts, illustrating the point made by Stirling Moss in Ray's earlier post regarding Jack's generosity.

The following year he applied this ability to his Cooper Bristol and achieved unexpected speed and reliability from that as well - one of his innovations was a new lightweight clutch of his own manufacture, of a type which later became commonplace. In this period, he was a thinker and tuner with few equals in Australia.

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 23 June 2013 - 12:07.


#156 austmcreg

austmcreg
  • Member

  • 316 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:55

Longford results Stewart, Hill (BRMs) then Brabham.

That was 1966, One of the least memorable races for both Brabham and Longford.

Rob Saward

#157 275 GTB-4

275 GTB-4
  • Member

  • 8,274 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:14

That was 1966, One of the least memorable races for both Brabham and Longford.

Rob Saward


Oops...took my eye off the ball :blush:

Bruce won both races and the Davison Trophy in the McLaren Cooper in 61mins 10.9secs...the 30th AGP at an average 114.72 MPH.

Brabham was Runner up in both races, setting a new lap record in the AGP at 2min 18sec - 117.04 MPH

Phil Hill was third, then Hill, Clarke

Lap times were around 2-21

McLaren did a record 2-20.6 on Lap 7

Jack put in a 2-19.4 on Lap 13 regaining the lead (McLaren re-passed him next time round)

10 laps to go, McLaren had almost 20 secs on JB etc

#158 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 23 June 2013 - 21:29

Please...CLARK...not 'Clarke'. :rolleyes:

DCN

#159 GMACKIE

GMACKIE
  • Member

  • 7,574 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 23 June 2013 - 21:52

Yes, MICKE!

Advertisement

#160 johnny yuma

johnny yuma
  • Member

  • 928 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:32

There's a wiki page on 1965 Longford,doesn't have lap chart,but does reveal there was less than 10 seconds seperating first 5 placegetters,and Brabham achieved fastest lap of 2:18 over Bruce McLaren,Phil Hill,Graham Hill and Jim Clark in finishing second !!! Sure wish I was there. The average speed for that lap must have been close to 120mph ! Earlier references to Jack being a "plodder" are hard to credit.

#161 GD66

GD66
  • Member

  • 2,237 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:39

I'll say. In nearly every photo I have of him he's got half a turn of lock on...

#162 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 66,358 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:51

Originally posted by johnny yuma
There's a wiki page on 1965 Longford,doesn't have lap chart,but does reveal there was less than 10 seconds separating first 5 placegetters,and Brabham achieved fastest lap of 2:18 over Bruce McLaren, Phil Hill, Graham Hill and Jim Clark in finishing second !!! Sure wish I was there. The average speed for that lap must have been close to 120mph! Earlier references to Jack being a "plodder" are hard to credit.


Where is this Wikipedia page?

I can tell you even from your brief description that they have no idea how good a race it was.

#163 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 22,015 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:25

It's really only a results list:

http://en.wikipedia....lian_Grand_Prix

#164 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 66,358 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:04

And the link to Bernd's page is useless...

Has he gone off the air?

#165 Wirra

Wirra
  • Member

  • 1,229 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:20

Please...CLARK...not 'Clarkie'. :rolleyes:

DCN

Hey Dougie, you’ve been here often enough to know everyone in Oz gets a ‘y’ or ‘ie’ attached to their name.

#166 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,356 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:23

Funny, I never heard about Pontingie. :lol:

Edited by Barry Boor, 25 June 2013 - 08:24.


#167 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 6,880 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:31

The first Autosport lap chart I have is for the 1968 Spanish GP. As far as I know this was the first one they published.

There were a few in 1957.

#168 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 22,015 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:38

Thanks Roger - sadly my collection doesn't go back that far. :well:

#169 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 9,041 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:58

Hey Dougie, you’ve been here often enough to know everyone in Oz gets a ‘y’ or ‘ie’ attached to their name.


"Clarky" wouldn't have been so bad, but you mean like "Ray Belly"?


#170 Wirra

Wirra
  • Member

  • 1,229 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:06

"Clarky" wouldn't have been so bad, but you mean like "Ray Belly"?

Robbo - You never use both names. Belly or Bello would both be acceptable.


Funny, I never heard about Pontingie. :lol:

Boorie - If you were a student of Strine you would know only the first syllable is use and then an 'o' or 'e' is added. So it would be Ponto or Ponty, however his parents saved us the trouble and called him Ricky! He is actually known as 'Punter'.

Edited by Wirra, 25 June 2013 - 11:09.


#171 Barry Boor

Barry Boor
  • Member

  • 11,356 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:10

Boorie? Nah, but I answer to Brucie.

And I'm sure out cartoonist colleague wouldn't thank anyone for calling him Wally.

Edited by Barry Boor, 25 June 2013 - 11:11.


#172 kayemod

kayemod
  • Member

  • 9,041 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:38

Robbo - You never use both names. Belly or Bello would both be acceptable.


Your home-grown reptiles have been one of the things keeping me away from Australia up to now, but you've just provided a second reason.


#173 Wirra

Wirra
  • Member

  • 1,229 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:18

Your home-grown reptiles have been one of the things keeping me away from Australia up to now, but you've just provided a second reason.

YES... It works every time.

#174 gkennedy

gkennedy
  • Member

  • 193 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 25 June 2013 - 21:32



#175 johnny yuma

johnny yuma
  • Member

  • 928 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 26 June 2013 - 00:15

go to http://www.sergent.com.au ,and look at 1965 Tasman races,including Longford.A description of each race,with data, is quite good,appears based on Australian Motor Racing Annual coverage, which Ray Bell mentioned earlier I think. For those with spelling difficulties,note the word sergent is not Sergeant ! You need to click on "New Zealand Motor Races" to be led to Tasman Series...Kiwi-centric site !

Edited by johnny yuma, 26 June 2013 - 00:25.


#176 johnny yuma

johnny yuma
  • Member

  • 928 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 26 June 2013 - 00:31

Your home-grown reptiles have been one of the things keeping me away from Australia up to now, but you've just provided a second reason.

I don't think our top predator reptile of the press had a very good time when he last visited England,either !

#177 Librules

Librules
  • Member

  • 172 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:07

Fair go, mate. Old Rupe is a fair dinkum Yank now.....no longer our problem. Cheers, Cobber

#178 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 9,647 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 26 June 2013 - 22:31

I see one of your head reptiles has just been knifed by the reptile she knifed a few years back. Politics seems far more threatening than the lucky country itself... It's still magnificent, but a very different place to the one I first found in the '80s... For me old Black Jack has remained a constant by which to measure the rest.

DCN

#179 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 66,358 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 26 June 2013 - 22:59

Poor old Jack's slowing down, Doug...

The country seems to be spinning out of control!

But, as you say, still a magnificent place.

Advertisement

#180 wagons46

wagons46
  • Member

  • 316 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 26 June 2013 - 23:24

For me old Black Jack has remained a constant by which to measure the rest.

DCN


And for those of us his junior by a decade or two, who placed him on a pedestal in his hay days, he is yet to be toppled.



#181 johnny yuma

johnny yuma
  • Member

  • 928 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 27 June 2013 - 00:11

I see one of your head reptiles has just been knifed by the reptile she knifed a few years back. Politics seems far more threatening than the lucky country itself... It's still magnificent, but a very different place to the one I first found in the '80s... For me old Black Jack has remained a constant by which to measure the rest.

DCN

Douggie at least our knifings are metaphorical,in Olde England the political blood was warm,red and real!

#182 GMACKIE

GMACKIE
  • Member

  • 7,574 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 27 June 2013 - 00:13

The country seems to be spinning out of control!

Or grinding to a halt, perhaps?

If you took any notice of the 'Press', you would think that there were only two people in Australia....plus a few thugby league players.

What about all the small businesses, and jobless who are suffering, because there is NOBODY AT THE TILLER?

Anyway, I recon Jack's a good bloke. :wave:


#183 Geoff Smedley

Geoff Smedley
  • Member

  • 110 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:45

Poor old Jack's slowing down, Doug...

The country seems to be spinning out of control!

But, as you say, still a magnificent place.


I remember a time back in 1963 when naughty Jack tried to blow up Symmons Plains homestead just to scare the peasants!

#184 johnny yuma

johnny yuma
  • Member

  • 928 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:24

I remember a time back in 1963 when naughty Jack tried to blow up Symmons Plains homestead just to scare the peasants!

Sounds more like Jack MURRAY !

#185 malbear

malbear
  • Member

  • 279 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:01

I have not heard of this brand. Where was it manufactured?

Posted Image

It is a bit sad at the moment as it has been through 3 generations
the original ally wheels are missing as the axles wore through.
I will machine up some new ones from ally bar and use large irrigation O rings for tyres .
If someone has some exact dimentions of the wheels that would be excellent to aid in restoration.

#186 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 2,428 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 25 September 2019 - 23:26

Given 10 years has elapsed and it's now approaching 60 years since Jack Brabham's first F1 Championship win, this might be of interest to some.

 

Details of the upcoming Brabham documentary

https://www.shannons...M:20180429:6509

 

Stephen



#187 Bikr7549

Bikr7549
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: May 16

Posted 26 September 2019 - 01:51

Hope it is available to be seen in US, Jack and the team have always been a favorite of mine.

#188 Gary Davies

Gary Davies
  • Member

  • 4,373 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 26 September 2019 - 06:42

Shannons says: "...the first world champion to drive a rear-engined car that he designed and built in Australia."

 

Well then, you live and learn: "Built in Australia, eh?

 

That said, I'm confident that Aurora Films will be more on the ball than the Shannons marketing department.



#189 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 66,358 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 26 September 2019 - 07:15

Originally posted by Geoff Smedley
I remember a time back in 1963 when naughty Jack tried to blow up Symmons Plains homestead just to scare the peasants!


I just had to get chapter and verse on this little snippet...

"I was working in the stables, that was where I prepared the Cooper for John, and Jack came in with a balloon," Geoff told me. "He filled the balloon with acetylene, I don't know what he used for a wick, probably a piece of string. And he set it floating over the partygoers at the Youl's pre-race party."

Originally posted by austmcgreg
Ray,
I have lap charts for just about every Longford meeting except that one. It took me a long time to find the 1959 AGP but eventually did it; 1965 eludes me. There must be a copy somewhere - the LMRA issued full results and lap charts to all competitors after the meeting. I do have most, if not all the written reports on that meeting, and I think maybe the stewards reports as well as Mckinnon's annual report, which is quite illuminating.


To overcome this problem I contrived to find every race report on the event I could and compiled a huge lap chart with the action as spelled out from those reports.

I'm satisfied that I have an accurate record of what happened in the event. Peter Bakalor's report is the backbone of it all, but by comparing it with all the others I could be sure it was correct and I could add in other detail. So...

...with regard to some earlier discussion about Jack's generosity, this was part of a quote I made from Stirling Moss:

.....Jack's a generous, good-hearted man. One time in New Zealand I had a half-shaft break, Jack had a spare and he gave it to me. He'd have helped put it in if I'd asked him. He knew I might beat him with it - as it turned out, I did - but that wouldn't make any difference to him.


Which certainly shows how generous he was. But when I finally got the story together about the 1965 AGP at Longford another very generous act came out of its 50+ year-old closet.

First, you have to understand that Jack was looking for his fourth AGP win. Lex Davison had four wins, Jack was keen to equal - and maybe beat - that tally. In the race he was firing well, he seemed to have the legs of Bruce McLaren even though Bruce was doing a lot of the leading of the event.

Then, at about two-thirds distance, they came up to lap Roly Levis. Roly had been having problems under brakes with the rear end of his car getting a bit of a wander up. Bruce went by safely but Jack got caught when the little Brabham beside his zigged or zagged the wrong way. Up the Mountford escape road, quickly turning around and flying into the pits for a check for damage and then straight back out into the fight.

And it was Jack's fight, a mighty fight. Frank Gardner proved no opposition, but the duelling Clark and Phil Hill were to prove a little harder. Particularly Hill, who went with Jack and left Clark behind. Graham Hill was also left behind as this pair swapped the lap record over a few laps. McLaren, meanwhile, had clutch problems and they were closing on him. Jack was to lose that AGP by just 3.3 seconds and Hill was filling his mirrors as he crossed the line.

Like I said, the best race I ever saw...

But afterwards, Levis and Jack met up at the airport. Roly had finished up going through a fence on the last lap and was taken to hospital, but was able to explain to Jack that his mechanic had found out why his car was going awry.

The differential carrier was broken in two.

Jack, who could have been absolutely livid about it all, merely said to him, "Do you have a steel carrier?"

"No, just a cast iron one," Roly replied.

Jack sent him a steel one from England.

#190 GMACKIE

GMACKIE
  • Member

  • 7,574 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 26 September 2019 - 09:05

25 years ago Paul Samuels asked me if I would drive Sir Jack around Wakefield Park, for the official Opening Lap.

 

Didn't need to be asked twice...

 

Wakefield-Park-Opening-2.jpg



#191 GTMRacer

GTMRacer
  • Member

  • 80 posts
  • Joined: October 16

Posted 26 September 2019 - 12:44

I just had to get chapter and verse on this little snippet...

"I was working in the stables, that was where I prepared the Cooper for John, and Jack came in with a balloon," Geoff told me. "He filled the balloon with acetylene, I don't know what he used for a wick, probably a piece of string. And he set it floating over the partygoers at the Youl's pre-race party."

 

 

Wasn't that a trick learnt from the boys at Cooper?