Jump to content


Photo

Elfin 50 years anniversary


  • Please log in to reply
165 replies to this topic

#51 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,634 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 19 August 2009 - 10:00

MS5?

There was an MS7, but the Niel Allen car (as above in various hands) was the ME5.

For more original shaping of the 360, perhaps you should look for Kerry Horgan's car?

Fair enough, I always equate Elfins as R for race and S for sports so I dont know where the E came from. But whatever could not find any pics of it on Autopics


Advertisement

#52 tania34

tania34
  • Member

  • 75 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 19 August 2009 - 16:36

Bob I looked on there for MS5 pics and found Phil Moores 360, Garrie and Stuart Kostera in the MS7, Henry Michell [spelt Mitchell so you have an excuse!] even Jim Doigs ASP in 1972 but no MS5. It must have been very incognito!

Hi Lee,
Found 2 ME5 pics. I went through Wiki and the bottom of the page there is a link to Autopics - Elfin.
Page 2 Warick Farm 1970. No 70428 and 70448.
I dont remember the ME5, not as it is now, with airbox etc. It probably didn't race in S.A.

Bob,
the pic of your Mono in 71 is fantastic, love the exhaust. I realy dont think my pics are good enough
Tania

#53 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 64,119 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 19 August 2009 - 19:42

You might also try looking under the name 'Occhipinti'...

Charlie raced this car for a while, but not for long.

And no, Tania, I wouldn't think it ever went to SA.

Lee... I don't know about the E either. Maybe it's to parallel its original owner's middle initial?

#54 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 64,119 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 19 August 2009 - 20:00

Posted Image

#55 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,634 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 19 August 2009 - 22:07

Tania, sorry about that.

Yes, at the time I couldn't figure out what looked wrong about the names. Glad you beat Ray to it - he has had a few goes at me in the past :) (not without cause).

One or two more photos:

ME5


Posted Image

After looking at those pics of the Sports cars it is obvious that they were in a constant state of change. Wings added and then removed, airboxes etc. And probably different set ups for different tracks.
From what I can gather this car raced like this later in its life. I guess that it would need decent authentication for the COD.
And the bloke lurking near the right rear wheel is another sometime motoring writer who loved the cars and I told about this site yesterday afternoon when I ran into him buying petrol.
And he would love to see the Catford/Blanden book too.

#56 onelung

onelung
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 19 August 2009 - 23:51

"...I bought a DVD about Longford, that too must have been good, another of your favourite places. Tania."

I'm not sure know how Noel Hurd looks back upon Longford - I seem to recall he had a very exciting experience there thanks to a touch of "aerodynamic levitation"?
Maybe the 400's needed more (or some..) wind tunnel work?

#57 fredeuce

fredeuce
  • Member

  • 407 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 20 August 2009 - 07:03

And the bloke lurking near the right rear wheel is another sometime motoring writer who loved the cars and I told about this site yesterday afternoon when I ran into him buying petrol.
And he would love to see the Catford/Blanden book too.

That bloke is a mate of mine Rob Riggs.

#58 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,634 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:55

That bloke is a mate of mine Rob Riggs.

Thats right.

#59 flightlessbird

flightlessbird
  • Member

  • 60 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 20 August 2009 - 20:41

Is the NSW HSRCA doing anything to mark this occasion?

Advertisement

#60 ellrosso

ellrosso
  • Member

  • 1,268 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 20 August 2009 - 22:44

Don't forget we have plenty of Elfin shots on oldracephotos.com too - just typing Elfin into the Advanced Search will bring them all up. Regards ellrosso

#61 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,634 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 20 August 2009 - 23:31

There is a pic of the ME5 on old racepics looking like it does now in Johnny Walkers hands in Tassy. The pic no is 1798_r_me5_81.jpg.
Hopefully Lindsay may be able to put it up as this car has created some controversy on this thread and the Elfin thread. The experts may be able to pic the differences if any after its European holiday.

#62 seldo

seldo
  • Member

  • 2,054 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:49

You might also try looking under the name 'Occhipinti'...

Charlie raced this car for a while, but not for long.

And no, Tania, I wouldn't think it ever went to SA.

Lee... I don't know about the E either. Maybe it's to parallel its original owner's middle initial?

Maybe you answered your own question a few posts earlier Ray ....

Not so much like the ME5, but like the ME5 if it had a conventional slope forward and no built in wing...

It was very much an evolution of the 300/350 with 'squared off' lines.

E = Evolution perhaps?


#63 onelung

onelung
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 22 August 2009 - 00:11

Another shot from the Sunday display...
Posted Image

#64 ellrosso

ellrosso
  • Member

  • 1,268 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 22 August 2009 - 00:46

Yes, one day I will learn how to post on this thing! Have attempted a number of times without success - will have to rope in tech-head daughter and have another go (I have Ray's words ringing in my head already............ I know, I know....its easy......). One side of the brain is better than the other unfortunately.
I will ask Neil if he has any shots of the ME5 in Ochippinti's hands in Victoria - we've had that many searches going on of late, one more won't hurt!
Certainly have plenty of the car in Elliot/Robin Pare hands and a couple I took of Johnny Walker in it. Robin was very lucky to get out of the Baskerville accident with his life
actually - was a very nasty shunt. Just as an aside, Tony Edmonson also ran the car at one Symmons meeting.
Regards, ellrosso

#65 tania34

tania34
  • Member

  • 75 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 22 August 2009 - 02:15

Tania, I think you might have to post your photos even if they aren't up to the usual TFN standard (lets face it some of those photographers are bloody professionals, or should be, and make it damn difficult for some of us!).

Bob here is one for you.

Posted Image


#66 GREENXC

GREENXC
  • Member

  • 53 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 23 August 2009 - 10:30

A member of this forum said on another thread that " there is one car that will probably never be seen again and that is the elfin 350 " well my eyes must be deceiving me but im sure i seen the elfin 350 in adelaide on the 16th of august .

#67 Leo D

Leo D
  • Member

  • 425 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 24 August 2009 - 08:11

Nice to see the ex Bob Jane 400 in the shots posted.....

Out of interest, does anybody know anything about the Repco V8 fitted?..... ie, is it the original, or is it from something else?

#68 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 64,119 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 24 August 2009 - 09:34

It was supplied new for this car, then fitted to the Torana Sports Sedan later...

Not sure where it went after a Chev was stuffed into the Torana.

#69 Leo D

Leo D
  • Member

  • 425 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 24 August 2009 - 10:41

It was supplied new for this car, then fitted to the Torana Sports Sedan later...

Not sure where it went after a Chev was stuffed into the Torana.


Ray,
To the best of my knowledge, the original Repco engine fitted to the car was removed after Ken Hastings sold the car, but was not used in the Torana Sports Sedan.
This topic ie, where the original engine went has been discussed in other threads on TNF, hence my question as to what Repco V8 it is.
I'm just wondering if the original has made it's way back to the car, or if it is another.


#70 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 64,119 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 24 August 2009 - 22:29

So which one went into the Torana?

Were the Torana and the Hastings rendition of the 400 running at the same time?

#71 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,634 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 25 August 2009 - 00:32

So which one went into the Torana?

Were the Torana and the Hastings rendition of the 400 running at the same time?

The Giant Killers magazine article of the time said that the Repco for the Torana came as a bag of bits from at Repco from Frank Matich and that the engine was a bit of a problem to put together as none of the bits had been together as an engine.

#72 Leo D

Leo D
  • Member

  • 425 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 25 August 2009 - 01:38

So which one went into the Torana?

Were the Torana and the Hastings rendition of the 400 running at the same time?


As far as I know, both were running at the same time.... that'd be around 1971.
I believe the Repco from the 400 ended up in a ski boat or something similar, but I have no idea what happened to it after that.

#73 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 64,119 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 25 August 2009 - 04:44

Jane's debut of the Torana was in practice at Hume Weir at Easter that year...

The last mention I can see of Hastings in the 400 (but I wouldn't guarantee my check was exhaustive) was the Sandown Tasman a few weeks before that.

#74 Leo D

Leo D
  • Member

  • 425 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 25 August 2009 - 05:12

Jane's debut of the Torana was in practice at Hume Weir at Easter that year...

The last mention I can see of Hastings in the 400 (but I wouldn't guarantee my check was exhaustive) was the Sandown Tasman a few weeks before that.


Ray,

If you look in the thread "Clevland - Powered Elfin" you will see the discussion that took place previously on the engine..... 1st page, starting about post #24 ..... this may throw some more light on the subject.

Mention is made of the 400 with the Repco being part of a deal which saw Ken Hastings aquire the McLaren M4A, and also of the engine going into a boat.

#75 GoldyAdelaide

GoldyAdelaide
  • New Member

  • 1 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 26 August 2009 - 07:04

Some other models of Elfins at the 50 year show

Jeff Brown's 622
Posted Image

Malcolm Miller's 630B
Posted Image

Phil Lane's 700
Posted Image

Edited by GoldyAdelaide, 26 August 2009 - 07:50.


#76 tania34

tania34
  • Member

  • 75 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 26 August 2009 - 15:22

[quote name='GoldyAdelaide' date='Aug 26 2009, 18:04' post='3815185']
Some other models of Elfins at the 50 year show

Good to see we are back on track Mark :up:
[


[





#77 Rainer Nyberg

Rainer Nyberg
  • Member

  • 1,767 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 28 August 2009 - 07:30

Has the ELFIN logo remained the same over the years?

Posted Image

#78 haggis

haggis
  • Member

  • 33 posts
  • Joined: June 07

Posted 29 August 2009 - 12:22

MR8A-C F5000. Name the driver in the background, brown trousers no cap. (I think I know but wasn't game to ask in case I was wrong!).


Posted Image


Guy in the brown trousers with no cap looks like Stuart Kostera who owned the MS7 for some years. Not 100% sure...but it definitely looks like him!

#79 Paul Hamilton

Paul Hamilton
  • Member

  • 421 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 29 August 2009 - 22:33

Has the ELFIN logo remained the same over the years?


Most of the later cars had a slightly different badge with the same logo but labeled 'Elfin Australia' rather than 'Elfin Sports Cars'. I don't know just when the later badge came into use but my own 600 which was the prototype built in 1968 certainly had it from new.

Advertisement

#80 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,634 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 29 August 2009 - 22:40

Guy in the brown trousers with no cap looks like Stuart Kostera who owned the MS7 for some years. Not 100% sure...but it definitely looks like him!

The bloke in the cap is Bryan Thompson and I reckon the lady with the blue bag behind is Tania [Tania34]

#81 onelung

onelung
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 30 August 2009 - 02:22

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image ........ :up:

#82 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 19 December 2009 - 20:56

Elfin 300 rebuild.

http://picasaweb.goo...Elfin300Climax#

About 12 months ago I came across what was reputed to be a 300 frame (only) awaiting work. Are they all accounted for?



They are all accounted for - a quick search on 10 tenths wil reveal a detailed history of all six and the "sister" type 350.

#83 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 19 December 2009 - 21:05

Has the ELFIN logo remained the same over the years?

Posted Image



In the mid sixties the "Elfin Australia" crests were affixed to cars that were to be exported, though I gather that the factory would also use whichever type that came to hand in a pinch, so cars irrespective of their intended market could end up with either type affixed.

#84 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 19 December 2009 - 21:14

Hi bob, good to catch you out there today. i loved seeing some of these cars out, as i was saying to you i caught the end of the competition careers of some of them and have been missing them ever since, in particular the big sports cars and the 5000... ok and the mono, anymore photos? my camera went flat and i didn't get many



John Lemm was the official photographer for the "Works 50th" celebrations, you could contact him or have a look on VHRR website www.vhrr.com/photos_index.htm and then go to "Elfin Reunion" to see more.

#85 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 19 December 2009 - 21:27

Fair enough, I always equate Elfins as R for race and S for sports so I dont know where the E came from. But whatever could not find any pics of it on Autopics



Try "Monocoque" "Elfin" "5 litre" for ME5 or ask the current owner for another more entertaining explanation.

#86 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 19 December 2009 - 21:32

G'day all,

Looking at some of the photos it looks like a few 622 or 623 cars were present. Does anyone have any better pictures? Also out of interest I note no Elfin 600 cars.

Regards James



G'day James

Bob Cracknell's yellow 600B (ex Tighe) was at Mallala, the SCCSA & Wayville over the course of the weekend - ran quite strongly at Mallala!

Cheers

James

Edited by SJ Lambert, 21 December 2009 - 10:09.


#87 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:07

Elfin Monos, also very pretty, I'm biased but I think the nicest of Garry's designs.

Posted Image

This why I am biased. Me in my Mono circa 1971.

Posted Image


So, could your Mono be frame no.6754 or or 6550 or another one?

#88 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 20 December 2009 - 09:00

Can anyone explain the evolution of this car? My recollection,is that it started life with a rather different style front end. Rather more like the ME5 .


Also with the 50 anniversary celebrations etc is there any talk of doing a reprint of the Blanden/Catford book?



This car is the second 360 out of the factory, the prototype (Phil Moore's car) and this one were the vehicle for left over 2.5 litre Repco Brabham engines out of Garrie's 600s after CAMS went to 5 litre jobs for open wheelers, making the RB units redundant. I gather Garrie hatched the idea of building Sports Cars round them in about 1970.

Phil won a Sports Car Championship the year before Henry won it with this car in 1974 (As an aside the 350 won the championship in 1970).

This car has had the Can Am nose & Schneider Glider rear wing for a fair while, since Henry won the championship I think.

Phil's 73 winning car had front suspension geometry & aerodynamic work done to it by Birrana Engineering but just prior to the modifications at the end of 72 (which, re aero work, was less extravagant than Henry's Phil's car ended up with a smallish aerofoil affixed to original nose) Phil "smashed" the lap record at Phillip Island and in Phil's words at that stage, "it was the best the car ever was; it was beautiful, it was so easy".

Tony Alcock felt that the anti-dive characteristics could be improved, hence the alterations. I imagine both cars would have felt better glued on with their altered aero packages.

The Elfin MS7 arrived on the scene in mid 1974, putting the other machinery in the shade. Garrie Cooper went on to scoop the 75 Sports Car Championship with the MS7.

Greg Doidge won a Tourist Trohy in 1978 with one of the 360s..............

The 360s were the last of the tubular frame Elfin Sports Racers.

Edited by SJ Lambert, 21 December 2009 - 09:28.


#89 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 64,119 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 20 December 2009 - 11:02

It was a deliberate move by the CAMS to have a strong 2.5-litre Sports Car class...

When F5000 was introduced with the 2-litre 'free design' option, and with the 2.5s going out of the Tasman as F5000 took hold there, the CAMS wrote a 2.5-litre class into the Sports Car (Group A) category to give the people with these engines a viable market.

#90 2Bob

2Bob
  • Member

  • 529 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 20 December 2009 - 23:32

So, could your Mono be frame no.6754 or or 6550 or another one?


MC 6754

#91 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 December 2009 - 04:42

MC 6754



2Bob, do you know whether your old car still gets out and about these days? Yours was a C variation? Some have it down as the first of the Ds?

#92 2Bob

2Bob
  • Member

  • 529 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 21 December 2009 - 06:24

2Bob, do you know whether your old car still gets out and about these days? Yours was a C variation? Some have it down as the first of the Ds?


I believe that Bruce Hazard now owns it and it hasn't been out and about for some time. I want first dibs on it if ever comes on the market (as if I could afford it!). I used to think it was a MK 2b!, but I remember it as being built in 1967 and the list I have seen has it as a 'D'. In those days there didn't seem to be the relevance as to the exact name! I bought it of Bob Minogue and with 1,100 Ford none cross-flow. (I also looked at Bob Punch's car at the same time for roughly the same money but Minogue's car was much cleaner and had numerous lap records in F3 so I thought it was a better buy). The F3 rules changed (1972? and I eventually built a 1,300 crossflow and sold it in 1973 as a rolling chassis, plus bits, after an engine blow up and then went overseas. Next I heard was in the late 1980s I think and it was back in Bob Minogie's ownership (at least I assume it was the same car).

#93 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:08

I believe that Bruce Hazard now owns it and it hasn't been out and about for some time. I want first dibs on it if ever comes on the market (as if I could afford it!). I used to think it was a MK 2b!, but I remember it as being built in 1967 and the list I have seen has it as a 'D'. In those days there didn't seem to be the relevance as to the exact name! I bought it of Bob Minogue and with 1,100 Ford none cross-flow. (I also looked at Bob Punch's car at the same time for roughly the same money but Minogue's car was much cleaner and had numerous lap records in F3 so I thought it was a better buy). The F3 rules changed (1972? and I eventually built a 1,300 crossflow and sold it in 1973 as a rolling chassis, plus bits, after an engine blow up and then went overseas. Next I heard was in the late 1980s I think and it was back in Bob Minogie's ownership (at least I assume it was the same car).



I think you are right about current ownership, it sure would look peachy if presented as per your photo!!! I've seen the next one off the line, (6755) a while back, it certainly had potential to be presented as v original/true to period. Brian Lear's at Wayville/Mallala looked good enough to eat off (in fact, I think Brian's is the one that Bob Punch had for a couple of years!!) The other one at Wayville/Mallala was Garrie's first Mk1 Mono - it has been undergoing a suspension spruce up and may be ready in time for Phillip Island in March.....

Edited by SJ Lambert, 21 December 2009 - 08:14.


#94 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:26

Reading about the Elfin FJ cars reminds me that Phoebe Rolt used to race one in Britain a few years ago in historic events. It was dark blue and quite competitiive from what I remember. I never got a chance to ask her how an Australian FJ car made it to Britain. Does anyone else know or can anyone tell me whether Pheobe Rolt and/or the car are still racing?



I think Phoebe Rolt still has the ex John Walker 600B (built - or delivered July 1970 or there abouts). - From JW it was passed into the hands of Harvey Simon (I don't know whether he was Aussie based or UK or elsewhere - in 1976 Erwyn Lindsay had the car in the UK - it passed through various hands all the while in the UK til it got to Phoebe & Stuart in around 1994. I'd like to know if she is still flying the flag for Elfin over there too. Could the 600B be the car you're thinking of? I'm unaware of them having a FJ - not sure that any Elfin FJ's have ever lived further afield than NZ - Bill Hemming has run his at Watkins Glen and in South Africa in recent times...........

#95 Ken Herd

Ken Herd
  • New Member

  • 26 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:37

It was a very nice display of cars. a couple more noteables would have been lovely but a very nice range of models, some very original and some as updated and being raced still.

The bloke with the Streamliner is Ian Brock who is a pretty fit old bloke who never started racing until his 50s, in the Henry Short Austin 7. His son, garry used to a Gp N Studebaker then a Mustang.

I saw Bryan Thompson there who had his modern Elfin on display. He spent a year or so a few years back in one the Elfin 5000s as historic.

Tania, I saw you there talking with Blowy, I was not sure otherwise I would have said hello.



Lee, was the Elfin Fholden Mark McLachlan drove there? I have not seen it since the crash at the 1989 AGP.

#96 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:15

Lee, was the Elfin Fholden Mark McLachlan drove there? I have not seen it since the crash at the 1989 AGP.



No, it wasn't there, last I heard Murray Richards had it, I personally haven't seen it since the 89 GP - Mark &/or Bob Scott or Goldy might know where it is...........

#97 SJ Lambert

SJ Lambert
  • Member

  • 4,716 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:14

Were there any 700s present?

They're another nice little Elfin, though I do agree with Bob (and Brian, obviously...) that the Mono was a neat thing for its day and looks positively tiny today.


There were at least two from memory, Keith Morling's ex Larner F2 Championship winning one ( in correct livery ) & Phil Lane's red one (they always look good in red!!!)

#98 David McKinney

David McKinney
  • Member

  • 14,156 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 21 December 2009 - 16:39

I think Phoebe Rolt still has the ex John Walker 600B (built - or delivered July 1970 or there abouts). - From JW it was passed into the hands of Harvey Simon (I don't know whether he was Aussie based or UK or elsewhere...)

Singapore, I think


#99 Paul Hamilton

Paul Hamilton
  • Member

  • 421 posts
  • Joined: February 04

Posted 21 December 2009 - 20:35

Singapore, I think


Harvey Simon lived in Sarawak flying a helicopter for a UK medical mission but his Elfin was kept in Kuala Lumpur. He has periodically posted on TNF as supersimon and the story of his adventures with the ex Walker 600B s/n 7018 was recounted a few years back on the Elfin 600B thread. Last I heard of him he was still involved in motorsport in the US with a 1983 IMSA Spice and a Buick powered Mazda RX7. Although its now a bit late to pursue his claim Harvey probably has a reasonable case to reclaim ownership of s/n 7018 as it was sold without his permission following his expulsion from Malaysia for political reasons.

Advertisement

#100 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 9,634 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 21 December 2009 - 21:28

Lee, was the Elfin Fholden Mark McLachlan drove there? I have not seen it since the crash at the 1989 AGP.

I do not know Ken, I am not really into history on those cars. Stan or Fay Keen would know I think, as they were very involved at the time! Honestly I cannot remember a FH there at all but my memory is not the best of the day.