127 replies to this topic

[b3nster]

Sorry, I hope nobody is offended by this post. I think to discuss in light wrecks which have killed drivers is immoral and inappropriate, but the wrecks where drivers have walked away is something different. Some shunts are just plain spectacular and allow us fans to gain a whole new respect for the intrepid nature of this sport.
One particularly lurid moment that stands out in my mind was Rubens Barrichello going airborne and crunching into the tyres at Imola in 1994. I also recall a very frightening wreck sustained my Mika at Adelaide and (if this counts) a pretty horrible pit fire for Verstappen at Hockenheimring in 1994 (i think). Anyone else remember any particularly terrible shunts?

[mhferrari]

Riccardo Patrese Estoril 92'
Alex Wurz Montreal 98'

[Piquet_1]

The two I can recall are so similarly violent, but in different series.

F1 - Both BAR crashes in Spa last year
CART - Michael Andretti's accident at Mid-Ohio

[Zawed]

Patrese; Estoril 92

Brundle; Melbourne 96

Diniz; Nurburgring was it, the one where he flipped his Sauber and the roll bar came off.

Barrichello; Imola 94

[Witt]

What about Phillipe Alliot's huge wreck at Mexico in 88? That was bloody huge!

De Cesaris had a big one in Austria 1985 that was pretty big.

In recent memory, i'd say both of JV's at Spa. Katayama at Portugal 95. Brundle in Melbourne 96 & Wurz's barrel role at Canada 98.

Gilles Villeneuve walked away from some big ones (Imola 1980?), unfortunately, he couldn't walk away from his biggest.

[Indian Chief]

de Cesaris Austria '85 is one of the biggest I have seen. What makes it worse for him is that he was fired from Ligier when he returned to the paddock!

de la Rosa's Monza crash was awful because he hit 3 cars, Herbert, DC and Rubens.

Diniz was very lucky to walk away from Nurburgring '99 alive.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Didn't Irvine have a massive crash in about his 4th race for which he got banned? IIRC that was quite an impressive one.

If you define "walking away" as anything up to but not including fatal crashes than Martin Donnelys [sp?] crash was a very ugly moment.

Biggest crash I've seen in person - Mansell stuffing a BTCC Mondeo into the Barrier back in '94?

[MattFoster]

Gerhard Berger at Imola 89 comes to mind


Cheers
Matt

[MacFan]

DC's plane crash would have to be one of the scariest wrecks a driver has walked away from.

[neoplanet]

Zontas BAR crash in testing was pretty nasty.
Exuse my ignorance but what happened in Austria 85?

[MacFan]

This did...

[Steve]

Try Christian Fittipaldi at Monza 93.
One of the most amazing crashes(incidents) I've seen.

[!!ManumissioN!!]

What about Olivier Panis at the Canadian Grand Prix.... that was pretty scary ... admittedly he suffered a bit for it as he was put out of action for quite some time, but he did survive the crash so I guess it counts.
Even Michael Schumacher`s crash last year is one to be remembered.
As for the scariest, I`d say Hakkinen at Adelaide.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist
Didn't Irvine have a massive crash in about his 4th race for which he got banned? IIRC that was quite an impressive one.

Actually it was Jos Verstappen who did the Aerials. Irvine was judged to have caused them by swerving unexpectedly. I think he served a 3 or 4 race ban, and wound up doing some live commentary from Monte Carlo, for ESPN I think.

[Ray Bell]

Irvine claimed that he had been baulked as somebody in front of him had their engine blow... one statistic he came out with at the time was that lifting the throttle at that speed led to 1g deceleration, which is more than a good road car can do with full brakes on...
Was Fittipaldi's Monza crash the one where the car crossed the line upside down or something? It was pretty good. Then there was that scene at Monaco with Candy signs in every part of the sky heading into Ste Devote...
The one that stands out from a personal viewpoint was Niel Allen's at Lakeside in 1968... he came through the flat-out kink at the end of the straight and ran a little wide on the exit, dust raising as he went from our sight. The next we say, he was 30' in the air, upside down and travelling backwards, already with a wheel or two missing, then there was the cartwheeling down the roadside as the whole thing peeled itself apart around him. He was concussed and had a broken finger. The car, a McLaren M4a FVA, had a lot of new bits in its reconstruction.

[green-blood]

Not even international never mind F1

Irish budget saloon championship for Fiat Uno Turbos, worth about £3K (£4K sterling) at the Phoenix park in 1999.

The guy cam barrelling down the longest straight into the hairpin at the Furry Glen, A slower car pulled over "ONTO" the racing line to let him by, the guy hit the ditch and was launched, the car struck a tree sideways in mid air (15ft or so), the tree was wrenched from the ground and the car ripped open. when it stopped after three rolls we thought he was dead, all this about 40 feet in front of us, I have it on Video, really crappy but it shows the drama. The guy walked to the ambulance........

As far as recent F1 goes, I though Diniz was done for last year when the car lost the roll hoop and finished upside down.......

[neoplanet]

Thanks Macfan...A picture says a thousand words! Ouch!

[daveturbo]

Colin McReas off the side of a mountain road in France was very frightening and Louise Aitken Walker had one of THE worst when, on slicks on icey roads, she and her co-driver fell off a cliff, rolling into a lake upside down. They couldn't get out the doors and I recal they smashed out the windscreen to get out. The car was totally up-side-down and completely immersed under water. There was some amateur footage of it, I'm surprised they survived!

[mikedeering]

Crashes eh? Always good for entertainment. (Assuming no one is killed...)

Well, I think GV at Imola in 1980 was pretty impressive in the trashing of the car stakes.

Also Piquet/Patrese at Monaco in 1985 - nice fireball, in front of royalty too...

This list could go on and on!!!

I think Patrese at Estoril 91 and Fittipaldi at Monza 93 were pretty good - Fiitpladi edges it because he did a full flip, and also still finished!

Hakkinen at Hockenheim in 1994 was also worthy - mainly since he took out half the grid.

Berger exiting the pits at Estoril in 1993 - suspension packs in - slews across the track at right angles to a fast approaching Derek Warwick - could have been very nasty...

Anyone remember Brundle and Tambay at Monaco 1986 - Brundle I think dived up the inside at Mirabeu, Tambay shut the door - Brundle flew over his head!

Scary spins award has to go to Mansell at Imola in 1990 - tried to pass Berger - forced onto grass - nice 360 at 200mph, rejoins track without losing a place - sweet.

Pointless accidents - Coulthard hitting pit lane at Adelaide in 1995 - certainly assured Frank Williams at the time that he wasn't losing much talent in not resigning him! I also recall him spinning on the warm up lap at Monza that year, starting from the back, then battling back to second,only to run out of petrol on the last corner and finish sixth I think - classic.

[magic]

john watson monza '81.
derek daly monaco '80
brian henton zeltweg '80

[Ray Bell]

A couple of spectacular start multis were Indy (1967? -wheels everywhere) and Silverstone one year with the whole field coming together through Woodcote, Revson won that race, so it was somewhere between 1972 and 75... wings everywhere in that one.

[Lipp]

Jonathan, to add to that remark you made about verstappens debut race crash: Verstappen also hit the helmet of Martin Brundle whilst rolling over in the air! Irvine was banned for dangerous driving and not watching his rearview mirrors, he was about to be lapped by Verstappen. I also believe that the punnishment was so severe because of his "little fight" with Ayrton Senna in Japan, in the previous season. (Irvine unlapped himself in a dangerous move, overtaking Senna)
In my opinion Irvine "robbed" Verstappen of a fine 5th (possibly 4th)place in his debut race.

[Peeko]

Martin Donnelly Spain 1990
Derek Warwick Monza 1990
Mauricio Gugelmin France 1989
Ayrton Senna Mexico 1991

[baddog]

Originally posted by MattFoster
Gerhard Berger at Imola 89 comes to mind

for me this was the scariest. I had one of those funny feelings you get about the race (like everyone seemed to have about monza this year), I actually thought (and told my girlfriend) mansell was going to have some big off.. when I saw the ferrari hit the wall I thought it was Nigel..then realised it was Berger.. then the car burst into flames and I felt physically sick. I was utterly sure he was dead, and felt I never wanted to see a racing car again. then he wasnt.. and I felt so elated.

definitely the low point of my f1 watching in terms of how it made me feel.

Shaun

[Damop]

The worst one I can think of was Danny Ongais in the 1981 Indy 500. He slid along the wall at over 200 mph, car on fire, and the entire car missing from the back of the tub forward. His arms and legs were flailing helplessly in front of the remains of the car, with the momentum of the wrecked fireball he was still strapped to pushing him forward. He survived and I think he raced again. I have never seen something as sickening as that... Here is series of pictures...

[MacFan]

Another scary one, again involving Berger, was with the active suspension Ferrari, which basically turned him straight into the wall at almost full speed on the pit straight - I think it was Portugal or Spain '93? It was a big accident, probably not the most spectacular ever, but must have been hugely unsettling for the driver - how could you ever trust that car again? Also crashing on a straight is not recommended at most circuits, as there are no gravel traps or tyre walls to protect you.

[John B]

Martin Donnelly in 1990
Chip Ganassi (yes the same one) and Al Unser Jr at Michigan in 1984
Ricky Craven at Talladega 1996
Geoff Bodine's truck crash at Daytona
De La Rosa this year
Stan Smith/Jimmy Horton at Talladega (year?) Horton's car cleared the wall and the car landed outside the track

[HP]

Yuck, that was indeed the scariest scene I've seen so far.

[RedFever]

In Formula 1, I'd say Gilles Villeneuve in 1980 in Imola. He hit the same wall that later claimed Ratzenberger's life and almost killed Barichello.

His rear tire exploded just a few yards before the right turn to the Tosa and in those days there were no chicanes at Tamburello, so Gilles was arriving at 185mph.

As the car left the asphalt and was going head on straight against the wall, Gilles had the instinct of somehow turning the damn thing and managed to hit the wall laterally.

The picture series of the crash was stunning (sorry, I wouldn't know where to find it). At the moment of impact, you can clearly see Gilles' helmet almost horizontal, 2-3 inches from the wall, the pressure so intense. The car disintegrated and was trwon right in the middle of the track. It was the beginning of the race and he was 5th, so the entire pack arrived with his car in the middle of the street. Thankfully, everyone somehow managed to get around him without hitting him.

Very scarry, Gilles didn't move for almost 10 seconds, he seemed unconscious. Eventually, he raised his arms to signal he was there. The crowd produced one of the loudest roars I have ever heard, so much was the relief after the big scare. Gilles later explained that he didn't move because he couldn't see anything for about 10 seconds. His eyes were open but everything was dark. That's when he started to move his arms, as he had no idea of where he was and could hear other cars driving by. As soon as his vision came back, he climbed out of the car. There is a great and dramatic picture of this moment, the car with onewheel left, Gilles with one hand on one side and one on a broken smoking radiator pushing himself out of the car, I have a hardcopy, but I am sure it can be found online.

Also Berger at Tamburello was scarry. The car was ingulfed in flames and he was unconscious. Thankfully the rescuers managed to control the fire (3rd lap, the car was loaded with fuel) in 10" from impact.

[RedFever]

also, although he didn't literally walk away from it, we can't forget Johnny Herbert's aweful crash. Once I read an interview where he explained how for almost 2 years after the crash, he still had pieces of grass, dirt and rubber coming out from the skin in his feet. Enough said, it's amazing this guy actually had a career after that.

[Damop]

I did a little digging on Danny Ongais - see above. What a remarkable man. He raced in F1 in the late 1970's. He was in critical condition after that crash, but did recover and come back to racing. Amazingly, in the 1996 Indy 500, he replaced Scott Brayton after he was killed - due to rules he had to start at the back of the 33 car field. He managed to finish 7th that day, at the age of 54. He raced at Indy again in 1998 and crashed (no injuries this time). Not bad for a man who should have been crushed by that wreck in 1981.

[TBone]

How about that Mercedes taking off at full speed, making a couple of flips in the air, then landing in the trees next to the track at Le Mans in 1999 (or was it 98)?

[mtl'78]

The Gilles crash was really something. One I didn't see, but read about and saw some pictures, was from Japan 1977, when he made a stupid move to pass Peterson, and launched his car into the crowd, killing 6 people. Actually, Gilles was launching his car into the air quite often which earned him the nick "Flying Frenchman". The danger of launching your car, is that it hits a wall with no deceleration beforehand, such as Longbeach '78 when he threw his Ferrari into a wall in mid air after trying to pass a backmarker, while leading... This same factor came into play in his fatal accident, when his car was launched 20 feet in the air and is estimated to have flown for over 100 meters before slamming back down into the ground.

Other reall scary accidents:

Emmo at a superoval, backing into a wall at 220mph

Carpentier at Monterey this season. Eerily similar to the Gonzalo Rodrigez crash at the same track. He backed into a gravel trap, and was flipped over 3 retaining walls and landed upside down in a ditch.

Diniz Nurburgring last year. I still don't know how he has a head.

Was Bodine's crash the one where he slides along the retaining fence for most of the turn, 5 feet in the air, like a fireball-comet? that was intense, especially as the fireball was reaching into the stands and engulfing marshals as the twisted wreck flew by...

[Chris Moellering]

There was one similar to the Ongais crash at Indy, but more recently. I can't remember who it was.....Pretty similar, car ended up sheared in half, driver was in a coma for at least a week, I think. I know it was several months before they let him see the video.....

[Damop]

I believe that was Stan Fox in 1995 (the year Villeneuve won).

[RedFever]

mtl'78

a few mistakes in your account on Gilles.

Fuji 1977: one marshall and one spectator killed. The audience had moved passed the fences and was hanging around on the OUTSIDE of a nasty turn. Pretty stupid indeed. The marshall killed was there actually trying to convince people to leave that place because dangerous.

He did not do a stupid move. He tried a pass on Ronnie Peterson. Pino Allievi, a veteran F1 journalist happened to be right there and he described Ronnie's move (breaking at the limit, with smoking tires and closing the door in front of rokkie Gilles at his 3rd F1 race) as "suicidal". Gilles was surprised by the move and didn't have time to react, hence touching Ronnie's tire with his. The car was airborne and landed on the two people who died.

Long Beach 1978: yes he was leading the race after a great start were he blew away Lauda, Watson and Reutemann who started ahead of him. He was lapping Clay Regazzoni. Again, Gilles had less than 10 GPs behind him. John Watson commented on the crash: "Clearly Gilles didn't make a driving mistake, but he was naive. He attempted a pass in a part of the circuit where you can pass only with the collaboration of the other driver. Clay didn't give Gilles that luxury". Keep in mind that Clay was laready being lapped and it was not even half race. Nowadays we would ask for a driver's head if, say, a Mazzacane or Wurtz is being lapped by Mika or Schumi and he shuts the door in their face and pushes them out. Back then, nothing happened to Clay and Gilles was told he had been too impulsive. true, but Clay was not innocent, Gilles was already on his side, and all of a sudden, Clay shuts the door. Today he would get a 3 races ban. Also, Clay was still extremely resentful with Ferrari for having dumped him 2 years before... The crash was a minor one. The car flipped on one side, but landed staight after hitting the tires. But it was such a slow part of the Long Beach track, that the impact makes Herbert's carsh last week look horrific in comparison.

Also, he was never labeled the Flying Frenchman, principally because he wasn't French. He was briefly labeled the Aviator in 1978, as he also had a solid crash in the tunnel in Monaco. Fingers pointed at him and labeled, Gilles maintained his innocence ("a driver makes mistakes, but come on, on a straight? something happened to the car and I lost it completly"). As the press trial goes on, people asking his head from Ferrari, Autosprints completly absolves him. Thankfully, a photographer had shot the entire sequence of the tunnel crash. His left rear tire suddenly went flat, his car starts leaving sparks behind it, and 20 yards later Gilles hits the ARMCO.

[Damop]

Here is Stan Fox - pretty gruesome too.... Good thing the cars were safer in 1995 - this would have been fatal 15 years earlier.

[FucF1]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Spa-98, that was the most spectactular "safe" crash I can remember

[Manson]

Some good ones listed here. Lots of my favorites. How about Tom Sneva crashing between turns 3 and 4 at Indy in 75 (I think). Big ball of flame on that one. A great picture was the one of Pancho Carter upside-down parallel to the track in 1987 at Indy also.

[b3nster]

I am surprised nobody yet mentioned Niki Lauda's wreck and the Nurburgring. It was a bad enough hit, the fact that he exploded into flames and was at a very remote area of the cicuit added to the horror. Luckily, he was saved by some brave drivers and survived, but that is one of the scariest wrecks I have ever come across.
Another bad crash was Philippe Alliot in Mexico 1988. I just remember that being scary just because of the nauseating manner in which his car tumbled over and over again.

[jmcgavin]

I can clearly remember berger at Imola, I was absolutely certain he was dead or at least badly injured
Judging from waht i remember of murrays reaction i think he thought so as well

Anyone seen the photo of Neil Corner coming out of a Ferrari at a recent historic meeting, looks like hes about 6-10 feets ABOVE the car which is mid air

[A3]

Check out http://come.to/f1crashes

Actual video clip from Verstappen & Irvine '94:
http://home.wish.net...ash-film-2.mpeg

Not a crash, but very scary: Verstappen's pit fire.
http://home.wish.net...ash-film-1.mpeg

Ukyo Katayama crashes hard after the start in Estoril 1995.
http://home.wish.net...ash-film-1.mpeg

Martin Brundle. Melbourne '96.

http://home.wish.net...ash-film-1.mpeg

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by jmcgavin
I can clearly remember berger at Imola, I was absolutely certain he was dead or at least badly injured
Judging from waht i remember of murrays reaction i think he thought so as well

Anyone seen the photo of Neil Corner coming out of a Ferrari at a recent historic meeting, looks like hes about 6-10 feets ABOVE the car which is mid air

here it 'tis
http://www.the-sun.c...rypics/13016778

[Ross Stonefeld]

Most wrecks where there's lots of flipping (Wurz 98) are good. You dont hit anything but you shed a lot of energy in the rotation. Thats assuming you land properly

no particular order...

When you say 'walked away from' do you mean alive or uninjured?

If alive..
Stan Fox, Indy 1995
Christian Fittipaldi, Australia 1997

If uninjured...

Gil De Ferran, Free practice, Long Beach 1997

Anyone remember Ricky Craven(?)'s accident at Taladega back in 1996? *massive*

[mtl'78]

I won't try and argue with your 1st hand accounts Red. I am certain however that I read the reports I posted (re: nickname, account of Fuji etc.) As a rule though I would trust your opinion more than quotes culled from drivers and pundits of the time, they were as biased then as they are now. My own 1st hand recollections of Gilles are limited, as I was only 9 when he died, but I have seen most of his career highlights and have vivid memories of his Canadian GP's at le Circuit to be named later.

TV coverage at the time was in its infancy, and we would often only get parts of the races, but from 1981 on I watched pretty much all of them. As magical as Jarama was at the time, if I would have known it would be his last... I mean what a way to win...

Anyways the point I was making, is that Gilles rarely made small crashes, his mistakes, car or driver, almost always happened while he was flatout. His style of driving at the limit at every corner, never left room for error. This was made worse by the fact that you had some of the fastest cornering cars ever (sliding skirts, etc. made for unreal G forces in corners). Not to mention murderous car designs, with the driver's legs inches from the front wing and drivers sitting almost over the front axle. The late 70's, early 80's was one of the most fataly-pleagued periods in F1.

Many of the accounts I've read seem to think that his eventual death was almost inevitable, the combination too deadly. Only his amazing skill and a good dose of luck kept him alive as long as he was. I wonder if this was ever discussed at the time, or just more 20/20 hindsight from the pundits? Today's races lack a certain drama in a way, because with the amount of fatalities at the time, crashes were much more worrysome, rarely did the drivers escape a bigone unscathed. Today the expectation is the the biggest shunts ever will be next to harmless, there are still horrifying crashes, such as Villeneuve's at Spa last year, but ones like Wurz's at the start of the Canadian GP 1998 will not be fatal. I was there at turn 1 and it made my heart skip a beat, but I was sure he was ok. I'll admit I felt relief when he jogged back to the pits though...


PS: I just watched the Verstappen pit fire, and I've never said it before, but what unbelievable sang-froid by Jos after he's been doused in gasoline... He waves his crew away to safety... That deserves a medal or something!

[RedFever]

http://home.wish.net...es_80_imola.jpg


for Gilles' crash in Imola in 1980

[AyePirate]

Originally posted by RedFever
http://home.wish.net...es_80_imola.jpg
for Gilles' crash in Imola in 1980

Red,

I think it may be a dead link

[RedFever]

Mtl, luckily in Italy we had live race coverage already in 1974, so I never missed on GP since then (well, I missed a couple in 93/94 when I was in business school).

About Fiji I am sure, I still hold a copy of two papers from that race, both had the same account, 2 people died, one a poor marshall trying to get people to move, one a spectator.

Gilles must have been both shocked and unaware at first of what happened (I think the two people were killed by flying parts, namely a tire and the engine, but don't quote me on it, I would have to go back and read the article). When he returned to the pits (no multi-camera setups at the pits back then), Forghieri asked him where did he leave the car (he didn't know how serious the crash had been). Gilles answered "back there, on the grass". So Forghieri was convinced he slid off and somehow the engine went off and the car had minor damage. I can only imagine his face when he saw the wreckage. The car was totaled.


regarding his death. Of course there are the cinics who say he was a fatality waiting to happen. I disagree. He had serious accidents, but who doesn't when competing at the limit? Schumi? Hakkinen? Senna? they all banged walls and armcos pretty hard. The difference between dieing and living sometimes is completly casual. Look at Senna, his body did not have a single fracture. It was a freak accident that the suspension rod went right into his helmet. Gilles died because of a mistake from Jochen Mass. Completly involuntary, yet, for whatever reason, after clearing the way, he eventually moved back in the middle of the track just as Gilles was approaching on the ideal line. Jochen's move was so sudden and unexpected that Gilles did not even touch the breaks. I firmly agree with Enzo Ferrari on this one, when he said after watching repeatedly the video, that he had always known that the only way Gilles could get hurt was not because of his driving at the limit, but because of the lesser talent of someone else. In other words, Enzo believed the lesser drivers were more dangerous for Gilles than his driving. And by 1981, Gilles had matured into the best driver in F1, the 1982 title would have been his and deservedly so. As you mentioned, Jarama was a masterpiece. How many drivers would have won with a lesser car against Laffitte, DeAngelis, Reuteman and Watson??? his was the worst car, yet he left them all behind for 70 laps. So, when I see Jaxs not giving up and trying the impossible to pass HHF in Indy, even failing at it, I cannot not smile and remember his dad. We hardly ever see any racing of that kind these days.....

[RedFever]

sorry


go to

http://come.to/f1crashes

then go to old crashes, it's there

[Peeko]

So, when I see Jaxs not giving up and trying the impossible to pass HHF in Indy, even failing at it, I cannot not smile and remember his dad

Does anyone else think that JV's move on Schumacher (asside from the end result) at Jerezgate was almost a carbon copy of Gilles' move on Arnoux at Dijon into turn one on their last lap?