36 replies to this topic

[rd500]

hi, this might be a bit of biased question from myself but ill give it a go,

as my username suggests i have an rd500lc which i have owned for a long time now and i am always trying to find out a bit of what they done on the race tracks of the world ( nothing probably ) , i know where i live i only seen 1 at knockhill in 86 or as far as i can remember anaway, i know that hizzy rode one in the senior tt in 85 and finished 10th, doohan raced one in oz and im sure alex crivilles uncle raced one, Phil Mellor and Des Barry im sure ran them aswell under the padgetts banner. if you guys have any info at all who raced them and what positions they got or even if they were successful it would be a great help. thanks in advance. PS.... speaking of knockhill does anyone remember the hulk that used to race there.

[MoMurray]

hi, this might be a bit of biased question from myself but ill give it a go,

as my username suggests i have an rd500lc which i have owned for a long time now and i am always trying to find out a bit of what they done on the race tracks of the world ( nothing probably ) , i know where i live i only seen 1 at knockhill in 86 or as far as i can remember anaway, i know that hizzy rode one in the senior tt in 85 and finished 10th, doohan raced one in oz and im sure alex crivilles uncle raced one, Phil Mellor and Des Barry im sure ran them aswell under the padgetts banner. if you guys have any info at all who raced them and what positions they got or even if they were successful it would be a great help. thanks in advance. PS.... speaking of knockhill does anyone remember the hulk that used to race there.

There was a guy in Ireland, Eric Galbraith who raced one at the TT and other major roads events as well as the Irish National events with some success. He cant be contacted throught the Irish Honda Motorcycles distributor if you wish to ask him directly. Great motorcycle bye the way.

Mo

[rd500]

thanks for that another 1 to add to list, do you remember if he won anything ???

[GD66]

Richard Scott and Michael Dowson achieved the 500's biggest victory when they won the Castrol 6 Hour at Oran Park in 1984, results and details at castrol6hour.com.au.

[philippe7]

And then of course there is the mysterious RDLC-based racer used by Steve Parrish in the 500cc Grand Prix, that we have discussed on many occasions

http://www.highsider...rrish_85_01.htm

[philippe7]

That was the year I went to the TT - I'll try to find a pic.

Meanwhile..........



Paul M

[philippe7]

Steve Parrish seems to be aboard a 500 RDLC production-based machine, which prompts me to ask if anybody knows details about that other ( or is it the same ) RDLC-based racer that he campaigned in 500cc Grand Prix for a while . I know Stavros retained for many years an ex-factory 500 in-line 4 Yamaha (which he may have gotten through his Barry Sheene connection ) which he campaigned way past its sell-by date, and later (1985 ? ) used this notorious RDLC-based machine . Wonder how it could have been competitive against what was then still a rather good field of private RG's and RS's . Does anybody know more about this specific bike ? Engine preparation, frame, etc ?

Pics of said bikes on Manfred's site :

the vintage factory bike used in 83 :
http://www.highsider...rrish_83_02.htm

the 1984 machine : is this still the same machine as the previous year ?
http://www.highsider...rrish_84_02.htm

the 1985 bike : definitely an RDLC-based machine
http://www.highsider...rrish_85_01.htm

[exclubracer]

And then of course there is the mysterious RDLC-based racer used by Steve Parrish in the 500cc Grand Prix, that we have discussed on many occasions

http://www.highsider...rrish_85_01.htm

Yes, this was built for the then Formula 1 class by Dave 'Mushroom' Johnson when Steve rode for Mitsui Yamaha UK with the engine using some TZ internals but the project came to nowt due to the weak RD500 crankcases, as opposed to the Suzuki RG500 Gamma as campaigned with great success by Darren Dixon in '88 when he trashed the diesels in the UK championship.

Then the following year of course the the rules were changed by Honda/ACU and the rest is history, boredom and the RC30/R7 diesels ruled the roost...

Edited by exclubracer, 26 August 2009 - 17:21.

[rd500]

thanks for all the info folks , you have jogged my memory of parishes rd project, i think it was in bike magazine or something, i do remember reading about it. wasnt parishs in line 4 500 called son of slug? . do we think then that the yamaha he rode at some of the british meetings in 83 or 84 an rdlc based motor?

[rd500]

it does seem that any decision made in motorcycling seems to be pushed or suggested by honda, i dont know why all the other manufacturers follow them all the time.

[exclubracer]

thanks for all the info folks , you have jogged my memory of parishes rd project, i think it was in bike magazine or something, i do remember reading about it. wasnt parishs in line 4 500 called son of slug? . do we think then that the yamaha he rode at some of the british meetings in 83 or 84 an rdlc based motor?

I think you're correct, the 'son of slug' moniker was given to the TZ500(J?) Parrish rode in GPs and internationals and the RD500 based bike was used n the F1 class and as a backup for the TZ.

[Macca]

I've still got the MCN article and photo of the Parrish RD from when it first appeared, if anyone is interested I could scan it. There were several privateer RD500s as well, I posted some photos I took in '85 somewhere or other on TNF, Ron Storey rode one with 'Superbike' mag sponsorship and I have the SB mag article about that too.

(Actually I have just about every technical article and photo on racing bikes that appeared in any British mag from '77 to '85, and a few more - so if anyone wants to see pics of the Barton Phoenix-4 and Sparton-3 that were discussed recently, to see how much they were like any other motors, just ask........also the Exactwelds, various Rotax's, Scitsu 125, etc.)

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 26 August 2009 - 21:28.

[rd500]

thanks again for the info, really good stuff. that pic over the mountain at cadwell is a classic. regardig eric galbraith, i looked up a few old books in the corner of the attic and right enough the winner of the irish 1987 southern centre solo championship was himself beating eddie laycock. only says yamaha though but it could be. also he was second in the superstockers that year in the southern irish championships to fran morrison. very interesting to hear about parish though, mabye he should have sorted bikes rather than comentating

[GD66]

(Actually I have just about every technical article and photo on racing bikes that appeared in any British mag from '77 to '85, and a few more - so if anyone wants to see pics of the Barton Phoenix-4 and Sparton-3 that were discussed recently, to see how much they were like any other motors, just ask........also the Exactwelds, various Rotax's, Scitsu 125, etc.)

Paul M

Macca, that'd be just great. Much as we like Classic Racer mag, it is woefully short when it comes to tech articles, and they are an interesting time capsule of what people were thinking and trying in terms of development, tuning, mettalurgy, handling etc., in the day. Scan away, son !

Edited by GD66, 26 August 2009 - 21:32.

[MoMurray]

I've still got the MCN article and photo of the Parrish RD from when it first appeared, if anyone is interested I could scan it. There were several privateer RD500s as well, I posted some photos I took in '85 somewhere or other on TNF, Ron Storey rode one with 'Superbike' mag sponsorship and I have the SB mag article about that too.

(Actually I have just about every technical article and photo on racing bikes that appeared in any British mag from '77 to '85, and a few more - so if anyone wants to see pics of the Barton Phoenix-4 and Sparton-3 that were discussed recently, to see how much they were like any other motors, just ask........also the Exactwelds, various Rotax's, Scitsu 125, etc.)

Paul M

I am pretty sure that once he gave up TZs, the only Yamaha Eric raced was an RD500. He was a Suzuki Katana man for a while but when the RD came out he got one of the first in Ireland. Of course he was not the Honda importer at the time! He is a good guy (although I haven't seen or spoken to him in years) and I am sure he would enjoy a chat if you were to reach him.

Bye the way, I took this in the Yamaha museum at the headquarters in Hamamatsu last year. Enjoy.

http://www.photoshel...0000U5CDsnGdOC8
Mo

[rd500]

great pic mo, i will let you know if i manage to reach him. cheers

[Finski#13]

I am sure a chap called John Davies ( Davis ) won the 500cc Production championship in at Bemsee in 1986 on a RD500

Edited by Finski#13, 26 October 2009 - 21:02.

[philippe7]

Yes, this was built for the then Formula 1 class by Dave 'Mushroom' Johnson when Steve rode for Mitsui Yamaha UK with the engine using some TZ internals but the project came to nowt due to the weak RD500 crankcases, as opposed to the Suzuki RG500 Gamma as campaigned with great success by Darren Dixon in '88 when he trashed the diesels in the UK championship.

This morning I got the following e-mail :

strange what you find on the internet !!! i built that rd 500 bike when i worked for stavros. we had also the ex boet van dulman ow53 bike with flat power valves and sonato give us an alloy frame when they had a work shop clearout so that got a standard tz500 engine in it.after one race we change the cylinders on the ex works bike to standard ones and put a extra front radiator on it (slug and son of slug) best regards from Tirol/Austria

Dave (Mushroom) Johnson

I'm not sure precisely whick of the bikes Dave refers to , seems to me he speaks of the "old" 4-in-line GP racer, but anyway it's good to have the insight of those who were there and did it ! I've replied asking him a few questions, we'll see ...

Edited by philippe7, 26 May 2010 - 21:44.

[philippe7]

I sent Dave the following e-mail :

Do I understand correctly that the original ex-Van Dulmen OW53 machine was equipped with a normal round steel tube frame, then? And that you later used the ex-Sonauto square alloy frame? Or did you have two different machines , the van dulmen one AND a alloy framed / Standard TZ engine bitza ? ( plus of course the F1 RDLC 500 )

to which he replied :

Good Morning Philippe
The dulman bike had already a alloy frame we just put modified tz500j cylinders on it .
On the standard tz500j got a alloy frame and a pair of works forks and electronic power valve motor
On both bikes I put a extra front radiator on them
Best regards Dave

So it seems Stavros indeed had two different 500 Yamaha in-line 4's : the ex-van dulmen factory bike equiped with production TZ500 cylinders, and a bitza made from a TZ500 engine fitted in an ex-sonauto alloy frame with factory fork . One machine called "slug" and the other "son of a slug" if I understood everything !

[exclubracer]

I sent Dave the following e-mail :

Do I understand correctly that the original ex-Van Dulmen OW53 machine was equipped with a normal round steel tube frame, then? And that you later used the ex-Sonauto square alloy frame? Or did you have two different machines , the van dulmen one AND a alloy framed / Standard TZ engine bitza ? ( plus of course the F1 RDLC 500 )

to which he replied :

Good Morning Philippe
The dulman bike had already a alloy frame we just put modified tz500j cylinders on it .
On the standard tz500j got a alloy frame and a pair of works forks and electronic power valve motor
On both bikes I put a extra front radiator on them
Best regards Dave

So it seems Stavros indeed had two different 500 Yamaha in-line 4's : the ex-van dulmen factory bike equiped with production TZ500 cylinders, and a bitza made from a TZ500 engine fitted in an ex-sonauto alloy frame with factory fork . One machine called "slug" and the other "son of a slug" if I understood everything !

Excellent find Philippe, and nice to hear from 'Mushroom' also, I hope he will join in the banter on the forum, his background knowledge would be fascinating.

[Leif A Nielsen]

Hi,

Here is a link from Gregg Bennett’s TZ web page, excellent forum with load of good information on TZ Yamaha’s.

http://www.tz350.net...thers.htm#tz500

-Leif

[Paul Collins]

I remember a guy called Mick Searle from Scarborough racing a fairly standard RD500LC up at Olivers Mount around the same time i raced my Shepherd 500 (which was based on a heavily modified NS400R)

A guy from my town also built a really nice F1 spec RD500 which looked similar to 'Son of Slug' it was in either a Spondon or Harris chassis with lots of nice gear on it but I seem to remember it got trashed after the throttle stuck open at Cadwell and I dont know what happened to it after that.

One other recollection I have is a lad from Scunthorpe (I think his name was Rob Quinn) leading the 1985 Newcomers Manx Grand Prix on a fairly standard RD500 but crashing on the mountain on the last lap.

[ofast1]

I am sure a chap called John Davies ( Davis ) won the 500cc Production championship in at Bemsee in 1986 on a RD500

yes i did win the  600cc Production  championship   and open 500cc  championship  at Bemsee in 1985 on a RD500  and was 2nd in the manx gp   i also won the SIR BEN BALL  trophy and DUNLOP trophy  that year 

Edited by ofast1, 19 October 2013 - 11:57.

[ofast1]

I remember a guy called Mick Searle from Scarborough racing a fairly standard RD500LC up at Olivers Mount around the same time i raced my Shepherd 500 (which was based on a heavily modified NS400R)

A guy from my town also built a really nice F1 spec RD500 which looked similar to 'Son of Slug' it was in either a Spondon or Harris chassis with lots of nice gear on it but I seem to remember it got trashed after the throttle stuck open at Cadwell and I dont know what happened to it after that.

One other recollection I have is a lad from Scunthorpe (I think his name was Rob Quinn) leading the 1985 Newcomers Manx Grand Prix on a fairly standard RD500 but crashing on the mountain on the last lap.

rob quinn crashed on the 3 lap 

[Paul Collins]

rob quinn crashed on the 3 lap 

 

Oops, thought it was last lap, my excuse is memory lapse as it was 28 years ago now 

[bobness]

I sent Dave the following e-mail :

Do I understand correctly that the original ex-Van Dulmen OW53 machine was equipped with a normal round steel tube frame, then? And that you later used the ex-Sonauto square alloy frame? Or did you have two different machines , the van dulmen one AND a alloy framed / Standard TZ engine bitza ? ( plus of course the F1 RDLC 500 )

to which he replied :

Good Morning Philippe
The dulman bike had already a alloy frame we just put modified tz500j cylinders on it .
On the standard tz500j got a alloy frame and a pair of works forks and electronic power valve motor
On both bikes I put a extra front radiator on them
Best regards Dave

So it seems Stavros indeed had two different 500 Yamaha in-line 4's : the ex-van dulmen factory bike equiped with production TZ500 cylinders, and a bitza made from a TZ500 engine fitted in an ex-sonauto alloy frame with factory fork . One machine called "slug" and the other "son of a slug" if I understood everything !

So does this mean that neither of the bikes called Slug and Son of Slug was an RD500LC based bike?

I'm confused now!

[philippe7]

This morning I got the following e-mail :

strange what you find on the internet !!! i built that rd 500 bike when i worked for stavros. we had also the ex boet van dulman ow53 bike with flat power valves and sonato give us an alloy frame when they had a work shop clearout so that got a standard tz500 engine in it.after one race we change the cylinders on the ex works bike to standard ones and put a extra front radiator on it (slug and son of slug) best regards from Tirol/Austria

Dave (Mushroom) Johnson

I'm not sure precisely whick of the bikes Dave refers to , seems to me he speaks of the "old" 4-in-line GP racer, but anyway it's good to have the insight of those who were there and did it ! I've replied asking him a few questions, we'll see ...

 

I confess I was a little confused too since Dave mentioned a total of three machines in his first post (as above) and it seems two of those were slug and son-of-a-slug......but which ?

[Paul Collins]

A quick google search has yielded some interesting info here

 

http://www.rzrd500.c...505c&view=print

[mfd]

So does this mean that neither of the bikes called Slug and Son of Slug was an RD500LC based bike?

I'm confused now!

I've checked with DJ & you're right. Slug was the ex BvD 0W53 & Son of Slug, the Sonauto framed bike with a 500J motor. Although bits were swapped around between them over the season. Sort of bike in-breeding   

[Matthias]

Michael Schulten raced a RD500LC in 1984 (German 500cc championship Colmar-Berg LUX)

Later he became German 2500cc champion in 1996, Supersport 600 champion 2001, 2002, 2003,

also German Superbike champion in 2004.

[bobness]

I've checked with DJ & you're right. Slug was the ex BvD 0W53 & Son of Slug, the Sonauto framed bike with a 500J motor. Although bits were swapped around between them over the season. Sort of bike in-breeding   

Marvellous, I thought I was going mad.

 

Sounds a  bit like 2 bikes' worth of parts put together in whatever order seemed best at the time...!

[mfd]

Marvellous, I thought I was going mad.

 

Sounds a  bit like 2 bikes' worth of parts put together in whatever order seemed best at the time...!

From what I gather the 0W53 was used as it arrived then standard J barrels etc. fitted. The other one was the scrounger's special with the frame from Sonauto & works forks from somewhere else. Over the passage of time the specifics get cloudy but re the RD, he said this (I'm sure he won't mind)

 

Did the motor before went skiing at Christmas, I had nothing to go off at all, it was a lot of work, but good fun! I had been to Harris before Christmas and with Graham who did the alloy welding made a frame jig, there wasn't one drawing just a few measurements written down, we did the frame just after the new year in a couple of days. Steve qualified in the Dutch 500 GP on it and also fastest in the FI practice in front of Dunlop but pulled in as the bike was running too cool and it was popping in the pipes. In the F1 race at the British GP finished second & all the Mitsui lot in their hospitality unit went wild!

[Macca]

A quick google search has yielded some interesting info here

 

http://www.rzrd500.c...505c&view=print

 

That page has most of the magazine articles that I have in my cuttings collection.............it also has a couple (uncredited) of my own photos I'd posted here - only to be expected these days, at least it's in the name of record and research.

 

Paul M

[Bob Riebe]

How many rear wheel horse power did they get out of the RD/RZ modified bikes?

[GeoffK]

I had a new RD500 and also a RG500 on the road and raced the RG, they were supposed to be 500GP bikes for the road or as close as they could be, the RD wasn't the RG was

[Bob Riebe]

A reason I am curious is Steve Parrish qualified in 500GP/F1 races with one in 1985,

 

 

 

There is/was a Spondon framed one which the owner said  had been heavily worked on and was at 150 hp on the bench.  There is also a video from RacingSM in Portugal showing an abstract video of how they put upper cylinder reed block barrels on the lower cylinders.

 

Curiosity got to me and I did a fair amount of searching for full race RD/RZ bike online. They were reframed with custon frames TZ, Harris, Spondon etc. and some have TZ barrels and pistons so I was wondering just how many HP a fully modified one put out in race form.

I did not book mark the pages but one company who built a full race bike with custom frame goit it down to 315 lbs dry.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 11 November 2024 - 05:58.

[brands77]

There are some pics here of a Bakker framed RD500 https://www.flickr.c...57710037598327/ .