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British Thundersaloons


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#51 mdswat

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 13:51

Magazine article from the Brands race:-

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great article & vids

very hard to tell from the small pic of the senator, but appears to have a vauxhall grille badge, did this car at one stage get the commodore front changed to the vauxhall senator correct front end?
hard to tell from that small pic.

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#52 Kevan

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 17:37

great article & vids

very hard to tell from the small pic of the senator, but appears to have a vauxhall grille badge, did this car at one stage get the commodore front changed to the vauxhall senator correct front end?
hard to tell from that small pic.


I think it did, probably during the Stevens/Millard Sertec ownership, but wouldn't swear to that 100%


#53 mdswat

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:03

where would i find a larger pic of the sertec livery??
and what year would that be in, appears the 85-87 was in vauxhall colours, 88-89 was all plain white, so the sertec livery would be early 90's???
than in 92 it was painted back in HDT colours.

the below picture has the photographer name from the magazine it was taken from.
is simon grant a motorsport photographer & is there a site of his pictures?
most old photogrpahers in australia have a site linking all there old pics for sale.


Posted Image

Edited by mdswat, 21 September 2009 - 02:35.


#54 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 18:57

John Bell shared the Nissan 240 RS with Barrie Williams

Any ideas?

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PAR


The black BMW is Martin lainchbury

#55 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 20:16

The black BMW is Martin lainchbury


Is it an ex-John Clark car or an ex-Mike Newman car?
In my opinion it looks terrible either way!!

#56 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 21:50

Is it an ex-John Clark car or an ex-Mike Newman car?
In my opinion it looks terrible either way!!


It's not ex Newman - He was racing this in 1985-86, at the same time as Newman

#57 Kevan

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 10:22

As you say, definitely not the ex-Newman car- Mike used his (one of the 1984-season BMW GB pair raced by Woodman and Weaver) in the BTCC between 1985-87, and I think I've read somewhere that he still has it?

I wonder if it was an ex-touring car at all- there's a very long thread on 635s on the ten-tenths forum, and I think the changes of ownership of most of the regular BTCC 635s around that time (CC Motorsport/BMW GB, Frank Sytner, BS/Cheylesmore) are fairly well-known


#58 Groggy

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 12:07

Couple of old photos' from Donington, think it was around 1985 or so:

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#59 HUI

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 09:34

trying to track down some info of the vauxhall sentor john cleland ran in the british thundersports championship in 1985.
any pics, locations dates times races, anything at all.
can anyone help me??
thanks.


This whole thread is very interesting to me. The series was of course Thundersaloons not Thundersports. I raced against the Senator both in my B class Escort and in the Stars & Stripes Manta. I last saw the Senator in its Peter Brock/Marlboro colours at Goodwood driven by Peter Brock who also drove Gerry Marshall's Baby Bertha that day. I know where the Stars & Stripes Manta is and I know Mike Wilson still has his Mazda (seen in photos on other posts). There were some very good cars out there but the only works team was Vauxhall with John Cleland and Vince Woodman driving the Senator and then the Carlton which I believe Pete Stevens still has. The Senator was an ex Peter Brock Bathurst Holden imported by Vauxhall and badged a Senator. I think Tony Lanfranchi also drove the car as he did the Carlton. The Senator/Holden is in Australia. The thread about the Mike Smith Pipeline Induction Chevette is of interest to me as I owned that car for a couple of years and was going to run it in Thundersaloons but the rules were changed. The series became interesting to professional teams and Andy Rouse looked at it so the decision was taken to tighten up the rules to try and get current models in such as Laurence Bristows 900 BHP Seirra Cosworth. This effectively frightened off the privateers, the professional teams never materialised and a very good series died.

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#60 Kevan

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 20:09

Towards the end, in the early 90s, wasn't there an attempt to 'modernise' the look of the series by insisting that cars be based on recent, currently-homologated models? Think it would have been about the time of the change to 2xsingle-driver races that Tim mentioned a few posts back- All it did was drive out some of the remaining long-term supporters of the series, running Mk2 Escorts etc.

Another random thought- didn't Derek Bell have a couple of runs in either the Senator or Carlton (around 1987/8, so probably the latter?), substituting for either Cleland or Woodman, maybe at Donington or Mallory?

A couple more samples of typical Thundersaloon fields from 1988 and 89.

Donington, October 16 1988- possibly not so typical, as it's a pretty big entry and there are quite a few cars on the list that I don't recall, plus a couple of moonlighting BTCC cars

Class A
2 Brian Ashley/TBA (Ford Sierra/Rover V8 3500)
3 Julian Swayland/Tim Swadkin (Toyota Starlet-Cosworth 2000T)
4 Rod Birley/DaveBrodie (Sierra RS500 2000T)
5 Nick Crocker/Bill Hall (Opel Monza/Chevy 5700)
11 John Cleland/Vince Woodman (Vauxhall Carlton/Chevy 5800)
13 Angus MacKay/TBA (Ford Capri 3000)
14 Graham Hathaway/Mark Rennison (Ford Sierra RS500- probably Hathaway's BTCC car)
16 Mike Wilson/Chris Keen (Rover SD1 Vitesse 3900)
18 Holman Blackburn/Nick Oatway (Opel Manta/Pontiac 5700- the 'Stars & Stripes' car pictured a few posts back)
21 Brian Powles/Don Manley (Ford Sierra XR4Ti/Chevy 6700)
22 Jim Mensley/Robin Donovan (Honda Legend/Chevy 6500)
26 Ray MacDowall/Tom Bell (Ford Sierra RS500- another Group A car, though this was a road-registered example, which appeared in Thundersaloons and various club races, as well as occasional BTCC outings)
27 Paul Sherlock/Robert Bridger (Ford Escort/Cosworth 2000T- presumably a Mk2 Escort at this date?)
36 Mick Price/Bob Beaumont (Rover SD1 3900)
39 Lionel Wiffen/Jeff Robinson (Ford Escort RS 1600T- I suspect this is another BTCC car, a Mk3 Escort RS Turbo, Wiffen appeared in one of Terry Drury's Escorts in the BTCC the year before)
40 Gordon Lauder/Roy Eaton (Mitsubishi Starion 2000T)
43 Jerry Hibbert/Tony Wolfe (Camaro 5700)
46 Dave Austin/TBA (BMW 535i 3500)

Class B
48 Ray MacDowall (Ford Fiesta 1600 -listed as 1st reserve, so possibly DNS-MacDowall being entered in a Sierra as well)
52 Steve King/Tony Paxman (Ford Escort RS2000 2100)
55 Hugh Marshall/Tony Lanfranchi (Escort RS2000)
57 John Goldacre/Tony Davies (Manta 400 2400)
66 Keith Atkins/Barry Andrews (Vauxhall Astra 2400)
67 Dave Lawrence/Brian Chatfield (BMW2002Ti- a DNS, they actually raced Chatfield's ex-TWR Rover in Class A as car12)
70 Hugh Chalmers/David Leslie (Opel Manta 400)
72 John Devereaux/Graham Joy (Escort Mk2 2000)
77 Joe Ward/Jeff Williamson (Mazda RX7 2400)
78 Walter Robinson/Alistair Cunningham (Manta 400- this was a second Ecurie Ecosse car alongside the regular Chalmers/Leslie car- don't think it was seen often in Thundersaloons?)
88 John Chambers/Gary Cole (Chevette HSR 2300)
99 Barry Barnes/Tim Swadkin (Opel Manta 2300)
112 John Edwards/Trevor Shaw (Escort RS2000)


and from 1989, Brands 'TVS Sky-Track' meeting (a combined race meeting and air display)

2 Brian Ashby/Jeff York (Ford Sierra/Rover 3500)
4 Rod Birley/TBA -(the car is listed as 'TBA'- Birley started the season in a spectacular new Sierra with the Porsche flat-6 turbo from a 962(!) stuffed under the bonnet, but this fell by the wayside mid-season, short on sponsorship and development as I remember)- at Brands he raced a Rover SD1 with Don Manley according to my handwritten programme amendment)
6 Michael Quaife/Graham Hathaway (Ford Sierra- a 4wd car with a 2.1 litre Ford BDT turbo engine from an RS200)
7 Julian Swayland/Sean Brown (Toyota Starlet Turbo)
12 Steven Colville/Dick Adams (Mitsubishi Lancer Turbo 2000T)
16 Charles Challinger/Giles Butterfield (Vauxhall Chevette/Rover 3500)
21 Brian Powles/Don Manley (Ford Sierra/Chevy 6900- a non-starter, Manley sharing the Birley Rover instead)
22 Jim Mensley/Tony Wolfe (Honda Legend/Chevy 6500)
26 Nick May/TBA (Maserati Biturbo 2500T- another non-starter, presumably the car that appeared in the BTCC in 1988/9)
27 Holman Blackburn/Mike Wilson (Mazda RX7/Cosworth 3400)
36 Barry Barnes/Alan Craggs (Ford Capri/Rover 3500)

Class B
48 Vaughan Jones/Gary Cole (Vauxhall Firenza 2000)
51 Tony Davies/John Goldacre (Transpeed Firenza 2500)
52 Steve King/Tim Swadkin (Ford Escort Mk2 2100)
53 Tommy Field/Dave Wallis (Toyota Starlet 2000)
55 Hugh Marshall/Barrie Williams (Ford Escort 2000)
66 Keith Atkins/Barry Andrews (Vauxhall Astra 400 2400)
67 Brian Chatfield/DaveStreather (BMW 320 2000)
88 John Chamber/Gary Cole (Vauxhall Chevette 2300)
112 John Edwards/Trevor Shaw (Ford Escort RS2000 2000)
205 Ricky Morris/Danny Morris (Peugeot 205/Opel 2400)

That looks more of a 'typical' Thundersaloon grid of the period,as most of those seem to be 'regular' cars- the Donington entry at the end of the previous season seems to have quite a few cars making one-off appearances from other series?






#61 Thundersports

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 00:39

The idea was Miss Foulstons and it did kill the series as all the new rules would have tried to do was recreate Group A. There were some other seriously naff touches in its final days like playing the Thunderbirds theme whilst the cars were on there warm up lap behind the pace car! A great series ruined....

#62 Tim Wilkinson

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 09:34

Reading through Rolling Thunder there was a lot of controversy at the start of '91 (I think) with some rule changes that would have ruled out most of the grid - iirc it was to do with the width of the cars; most of the bodykits were far too wide. That rule was revoked, but not before some had cut their cars about a bit.

Was the 3-year out of production rule ever actually implemented? The impression I get is that a lot of the rules mooted were never brought into effect (apart from the switch to 2-races) and what killed the championship was perceived instability and poor organisation / comunication. And the prize money emphasis being so strongly with the big bangers in class A.

Unfortunately Rolling Thunder's last issue is in early '92, and I have very little info on the championship or it's competitors in the years after that. For example I've heard of a powerboat-engined Merc 190 built for Jason Dell, but can find no more info or pictures on it - or even if it ever actually raced.

#63 bigears

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 11:38

Does anyone have any information about Rod Birley's demo run at the Birmingham Superprix track rehearsal in 1986 when he drove a Ford Sierra XR4Ti?

#64 voxadd

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 18:36

Only just found these images. The first shows a Vauxhall-Opel publicity shot to show how the Holden Commodore, rebadged and entered as a Vauxhall Senator could look like the road car.
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GM Dealer Sport's rationale for entering the Thundersaloon series was that it gave them a way of achieving outright victories, rather than the class wins that they were getting with the Astra GTE, Nova SR and Monza Coupes in prod saloon racing. John Cleland and Vince Woodman were very successful in the Commodore/Senator before the bespoke Carlton was created.
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During its life with GMDS, the grille did change to a Senator type one:
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Andrew Duerden
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#65 voxadd

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 18:56

Vince Woodman and John Cleland whilst competing in the Thundersaloon series, also entered the TT race at Silverstone. IIRC, the car was one of the vehicles brought over for the Brock onslaught on the Touring Car series.
Posted Image Posted Image

Posted Image Posted Image

This is the O'Brien car in the same race
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#66 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 21:10

There seemed to be a lot of Commodores there. In those pics there is a VK Group C car [with the flares and big rubber] a Gp A VK or two. plus a Gp A VL Brock. All fairly different spec and performance cars.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 29 September 2009 - 04:13.


#67 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 21:52


Good to see you over here Hugh - you'll like it for the older stuff.
:cat:

#68 Kevan

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 23:07

Vince Woodman and John Cleland whilst competing in the Thundersaloon series, also entered the TT race at Silverstone. IIRC, the car was one of the vehicles brought over for the Brock onslaught on the Touring Car series.
Posted Image Posted Image

Posted Image Posted Image

This is the O'Brien car in the same race
Posted Image


ADD
VHCArchive


Going slightly off-topic, but the GMDS entry at the TT in '86 intrigues me. As you said, the car was one of the pair Brock brought over to Europe for an assault on the ETC- What was the story behind it running as a DealerSport entry at the TT? Was it always just intended as a one-off, or was there any idea of running any kind of Group A campaign with the car?. Was it returned to Brock after the race, and presumably then went back to Australia?

The last pic of the O'Brien car looks like a BTCC round (Oulton?), rather than the TT, and is a year or two later. O'Brien raced the an ex-Allan Grice VK in the BTCC in 1987, run by Alan Docking- this was the car Grice used in his 1986 European campaign. The VL in the pic looks like O'Brien's 1988 car(which would be upgraded to 'Walkinshaw' spec late-season). I've read a suggestion that the VL might have been a different chassis altogether (maybe of Brock origin?) rather than the VK upgraded- and does anyone have an idea what happened to the O'Brien car(s) after the BTCC- I've got a vague memory of a possibly ex-O'Brien Commodore appearing in Thundersaloons at some point?

Edited by Kevan, 28 September 2009 - 23:15.


#69 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 09:06

Was the 3-year out of production rule ever actually implemented? The impression I get is that a lot of the rules mooted were never brought into effect (apart from the switch to 2-races) and what killed the championship was perceived instability and poor organisation / comunication. And the prize money emphasis being so strongly with the big bangers in class A.

Unfortunately Rolling Thunder's last issue is in early '92, and I have very little info on the championship or it's competitors in the years after that. For example I've heard of a powerboat-engined Merc 190 built for Jason Dell, but can find no more info or pictures on it - or even if it ever actually raced.


The mooted 3-year rule put me and my brother off entering. We had a Rover SD1 that we were tarmac rallying at the time with a 4.5 litre V8 and we were looking for an 'in' on circuit racing as it was starting to look like a cheaper option and I had always been more of a racer at heart. The plan was to run the Vitesse for a season, learn the tracks and the ropes in general then transplant the engine into a smaller/lighter shell. Then the rule changes were announced and seemed to kick out half the existing grid at a stroke and half the remainder within a short space of time. Our car would have been too old so we did a final year of rallying and then went into the Castle Combe road saloon series instead.


I remember the Dell Mercedes at Castle Combe. I'll dig out the photos from that event if I can find them. I'm sure I have one of the Merc'. I don't recall the engine being from a powerboat I have to say. I'm sure it's the kind of detail the commentators would have picked up on.

#70 Tim Wilkinson

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 22:20

The last pic of the O'Brien car looks like a BTCC round (Oulton?), rather than the TT, and is a year or two later. O'Brien raced the an ex-Allan Grice VK in the BTCC in 1987, run by Alan Docking- this was the car Grice used in his 1986 European campaign. The VL in the pic looks like O'Brien's 1988 car(which would be upgraded to 'Walkinshaw' spec late-season). I've read a suggestion that the VL might have been a different chassis altogether (maybe of Brock origin?) rather than the VK upgraded- and does anyone have an idea what happened to the O'Brien car(s) after the BTCC- I've got a vague memory of a possibly ex-O'Brien Commodore appearing in Thundersaloons at some point?


Info I have is that the ex-Grice VK went to Chris Maries (most likely not directly but rather via someone in NW saloons who raced a 240RS previously - any ideas?); Maries ran it in TS with Graham Nash and others, before it went through a couple more people including Ric Wood and ended up in Mod Prods with Peter Barnes.

Thanks for the info, Simon. I think the mooted rule changes must have put more than just you off - even if they never actually happened. Who wants to spend a lot on a championship that will change rules at the drip of a hat (a la the maximum width rule)? Info on the Merc's engine was from another forum - someone who followed the series at the time and owns one of the Thundersaloons - says it was an F1 powerboat engine. May be duff info, though.

I'd love any info on the multitude of Vauxhalls that ran - the Mk1 with Manta 400 engine, or the Mk2 built in '91, for example. Or what happened to the Honda Legend. So many unanswered questions about these cars!

#71 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 01 October 2009 - 14:53

Old Thundersaloon for sale:- http://cgi.ebay.co.u...ME:B:SS:GB:1123
Relevant article:- http://www.andrewcha...PorkBangers.htm

#72 mdswat

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 01:43

love the ebay ad for the chevette, be interesting to see what sort of coin it goes for.

my infomation on the senator is the car had a heavy incident with a concrete wall, and needed major firewall foreward repairs or replacement, anyone know of the incident?

Edited by mdswat, 02 October 2009 - 01:55.


#73 david5

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 04:35

love the ebay ad for the chevette, be interesting to see what sort of coin it goes for.

my infomation on the senator is the car had a heavy incident with a concrete wall, and needed major firewall foreward repairs or replacement, anyone know of the incident?


i know where your going with this, good work.

#74 Kevan

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 08:34

my infomation on the senator is the car had a heavy incident with a concrete wall, and needed major firewall foreward repairs or replacement, anyone know of the incident?


I think I remember reading that it had a fairly big shunt at some time as well- possibly during the Stevens/Facey period, rather than when it was raced by GMDealer Sport?


#75 roblegin

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 09:04


Grid for Shell Oils Thundersaloon race, Silverstone 26/07/87
Class A
1 GM Dealer Sport
GM Carlton (5000), John Cleland / Vince Woodman

4 Curtis Holt
Ford Sierra Cosworth (3414), Rod Birley / Dave Brodie

7 Joe Ward
Ford Escort (2000), Joe Ward / Tony Dickinson

8 Safety Devices
Opel Manta (4995), Nick Oatway / Holman Blackburn

11 Pete Stevens Racing
GM Senator (5000), Pter Stevens / Neil Facey

18 Tony Strawson
Ford Sierra (3400), Tony Strawson / Gerry Marshall

21 Michael Shanly Group
BMW 530i (2994), Dave Harter / Ed Mercer

22 Jim Mensley
Rover Vitesse (3900), Jim Mensley / TBA

25 Andy Dawson
Audi Quattro, (3000), Andy Dawson / Chris Millard

112 John Edwards Racing
Ford Escort (3900), John Edwards / Trevor Shaw

Class B
5 Brian Chatfield
GM Chevette (1900), Brian Chatfield /Mike Smith

10 Transpeed Discount Motor Spares
Firenza (2499), Tony Davies / TBA

51 Steve Minton
Ford Escort RS (2000), Steve / Dave Minton (I thought it was Dale Minton??)

52 Nick Crocker
Mazda RX7 (2100), Nick Crocker / TBA

55 Gardner Specialised Engineering
Ford Escort (2272), Hugh Marshall / Tony Lanfranchi

57 JJS Racing
Opel Manta 400 (2300), John Goldacre / John Pickering

59 Flix Video Centres
Nissan 240RS (2340), Bryan Litherland / Rhoddy Harvey-Bailey

67 Diamond Racing
BMW 320i (2000), David Lawrence / Brian Chatfield

69 AM Express
Ford Escort (2000), John Devereaux / Tim Swadkin

77 Manns (Rotary) Racing
Mazda RX7 (2400), Holman Blackburn / Mike Wilson

81 Brian Ashley
Ford Escort (2000), Brian Ashley / TBA

Quite an ecletic mix of cars!




#76 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 10:58

From Castle Combe on Mat 3 1993.

The Jason Dell Mercedes with that truly oddball entry, the BX Citroen keeping well out of his way at Old Paddock corner!
Posted Image
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The superb looking Honda Prelude (Richard Piper?)
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And Robin Hooker's Escort which I think 'only' had a 24V Cosworth V6 engine and suffered from a lack of BHP
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Last but by no mean least(expensive) Derek Tyndall's "Escat" Escort with XK220 turbo engine - I used to rally against "Dangerous Derek" (far left in lower picture)who had a chain of camera shops and ran TR8s, then a 6R4 which he also raced on the Combe GT series. He had a Siilk Cut Jaguar XJR11 in his workshop at one time which explains the choice of engine for the Escort. The car was very wild but very fragile so it spent a great deal of time looking much like this at each event!
His mechanic and rallying co-driver Dave 'Motty" Motterham (right on lower picture) now works at our local tyre fitters and still co-drives on the Wyedean stages each year.
Posted Image
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#77 Kevan

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 11:49

From Castle Combe on Mat 3 1993.

The Jason Dell Mercedes with that truly oddball entry, the BX Citroen keeping well out of his way at Old Paddock corner!

The superb looking Honda Prelude (Richard Piper?)

And Robin Hooker's Escort which I think 'only' had a 24V Cosworth V6 engine and suffered from a lack of BHP


Last but by no mean least(expensive) Derek Tyndall's "Escat" Escort with XK220 turbo engine - I used to rally against "Dangerous Derek" (far left in lower picture)who had a chain of camera shops and ran TR8s, then a 6R4 which he also raced on the Combe GT series. He had a Siilk Cut Jaguar XJR11 in his workshop at one time which explains the choice of engine for the Escort. The car was very wild but very fragile so it spent a great deal of time looking much like this at each event!
His mechanic and rallying co-driver Dave 'Motty" Motterham (right on lower picture) now works at our local tyre fitters and still co-drives on the Wyedean stages each year.


Great pics Simon:

the Citroen BX is mentioned in the Chevette article Gregor linked to a couple of posts back- apparently Gary Cole had plans to develop it into a 2-litre BTCC car

The Prelude is Richard Piper and Rod Birley- I always thought that was an absolutely stunning car, built by Jim Morgan, who'd done the Mann's Mazda RX7-Cosworth for Mike Wilson/Les Blackburn a few years before. Rod still owned and raced the Prelude up until around 2003- Apparently it's now with Peter Thurston down here in Kent, though I'm not sure if he's raced it?
(Peter's probably better known for his equally spectacular V8-powered Mk1 Escort, a regular at Lydden a couple of years back
http://www.redshoes-...ID=5767&cat=334 )

More on the Prelude
http://www.honda-pre...ebase/racing/5/
http://www.rodbirley.com/Honda.htm

Rod's website has pics and some history on all of his regular Thundersaloon mounts- the Sierra-Cosworth GA, and the Gartrac Sierra-Porsche (described as a 'technical nightmare') http://www.rodbirley.com/Sierra.htm , Mazda RX7 (the ex-Wilson/Blackburn car) http://www.rodbirley.com/Mazda.htm and the Prelude, plus a couple of others-
Joe Ward's ex-Ecurie Ecosse Manta 400,
http://www.rodbirley.../Opal Manta.JPG
and the ex-Dave Brodie Mitsubishi Starion: http://www.rodbirley...undersaloon.JPG



I definitely remember the Hooker Escort, but not sure if I ever saw the Merc or Derek Tyndall's Escat race

Edited by Kevan, 02 October 2009 - 12:01.


#78 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 02 October 2009 - 12:55

Looking back at the technical diversity of the entries, the sheer excitement of seeing some of these devices at speed , the mix of familiar and unknown drivers and then the way the series was trashed by the rule makers of the day, you could almost see Thundersaloons as a perfect example of how national-level motor racing was turned from being a spectator sport (bums on seats in the grandstands) to a participants sport (no bums on seats except in the cars on the grid!).
This kind of series was what made spectating worthwhile because there was always something different and unusual to see - even the BX. It was never the same two meetings running. Endless single-make and spec series have turned people off in their droves by the sheer predictability of it all.

Edited by simonlewisbooks, 02 October 2009 - 13:00.


#79 mdswat

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 07:31

are neil facey & pete sevens still racing? and does anyone have contact emails for either to get some more infomation.


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#80 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 11:11

I don't think the Chevette will make a log of money, Vauxhalls never do unfortunately!!
The Mike Smith sold 18 months ago for £8,500 IIRC and it had loads and loads of spares.
The Stars & Stripes Manta was valued at £13,000 to £15,000:- http://www.bonhams.c...SaleSectionNo=2

#81 Kevan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 17:41

Info I have is that the ex-Grice VK went to Chris Maries (most likely not directly but rather via someone in NW saloons who raced a 240RS previously - any ideas?); Maries ran it in TS with Graham Nash and others, before it went through a couple more people including Ric Wood and ended up in Mod Prods with Peter Barnes.


Thanks Tim- I'd certainly heard those names in connection with the car, but I'm not sure of the exact history. Incidentally, this pic of the Commodore came up on the ten-tenths forum yesterday...
http://farm4.static....4e0f15b22_b.jpg

#82 Kevan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 18:48

Think I've found the source of the Commodore pic in my previous post, and quite a few more Thundersaloon pics as well- apparently Oulton in 1991


The photos include quite a few cars that we've not really covered so far in the thread, so I've picked some of them out..

One we have seen several times- the Carlton, here in Sertec colours:
http://farm4.static....175bd083e_b.jpg

The RX7-Cosworth- always one of my favourites
http://farm4.static....f74d117f3_b.jpg

The Mensley/Wolfe Honda
http://farm4.static....fe8197c35_b.jpg
http://farm4.static....52bda309e_b.jpg

The Laurence Bristow/Jerry Mahony RS500- it started life as Bristow's Labatt's-sponsored BTCC car. This one is still around, currently wearing it's original Labatt's colours, although still in Thundersaloon form
http://farm4.static....25509dc09_b.jpg

Mitsubishi Starion- any ideas?
http://farm4.static....8a385d04f_b.jpg

another RS500- Stuart Donnan I think
http://farm4.static....bafd64234_b.jpg
http://farm3.static....ec97cffe9_b.jpg

Vauxhall Belmont: another car using the 2.4 litre Opel Ascona/Manta 400 engine I think, though I have a feeling this one later got a V8
http://farm4.static....74feca4af_b.jpg

Toyota Starlets were a fairly popular choice in Class B- whose is this one?
http://farm3.static....5e3c1e710_b.jpg

BMW M3- I suspect this may be yet another Brian Chatfield car...
http://farm4.static....16a0c33ba_b.jpg


Edited by Kevan, 03 October 2009 - 20:49.


#83 Kevan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 19:04

A couple more from Flickr- Donington this time, it's 'Black Thunder' Rob Cox's Sierra- the ex-Birley/Nicholls Sierra-Porsche, by this time running a more traditional Thundersaloon engine- about 7-litres of American V8 (Pontiac I think?) http://farm3.static....22d4af8f1_b.jpg

Mallory- the Carlton, the RX7, now in Rod Birley's ArmorAll colours, but whose RS500 is that behind them? Definitely an ex-Group A car, it looks like the Sean Walker FAI car from the 1990 BTCC- but who ran it in Thundersaloons?
http://farm4.static....a1e4c43c4_b.jpg

Edited by Kevan, 03 October 2009 - 19:11.


#84 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 21:53

BMW M3- I suspect this may be yet another Brian Chatfield car...
http://farm4.static....16a0c33ba_b.jpg


...and a former DTM car from the Alpina team judging by the look!

A little earlier there was some mention of a powerboat engined Mercedes 190. Around the mid-1990s a British based Chevrolet powered Mercedes 190 was hired for a race at the Grand Prix Danmark at Jyllands-Ringen, driven by local Super Saloon racer Flemming Riinbæk. Rumered to be in excess of 6 litres I guess this could be the one and same car.

Jesper

#85 Kevan

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 22:29

...and a former DTM car from the Alpina team judging by the look!

A little earlier there was some mention of a powerboat engined Mercedes 190. Around the mid-1990s a British based Chevrolet powered Mercedes 190 was hired for a race at the Grand Prix Danmark at Jyllands-Ringen, driven by local Super Saloon racer Flemming Riinbæk. Rumered to be in excess of 6 litres I guess this could be the one and same car.

Jesper


Yes, that M3 does look a lot like one of the Alpina cars....
http://blufiles.stor...?PARTNER=WRITER

If the Merc 190 at Jyllands-Ringen was a UK-based car, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't the Dell car- I can't think of any other British-based Mercedes that would fit the description- the 190 was always a fairly rare bird on the British racing scene (I can only think of a couple of production saloons and the odd rallycar) in any specification, let alone with a V8 in it....

#86 Tim Wilkinson

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 00:27

Mitsubishi Starion- any ideas?
http://farm4.static....8a385d04f_b.jpg

Vauxhall Belmont: another car using the 2.4 litre Opel Ascona/Manta 400 engine I think, though I have a feeling this one later got a V8
http://farm4.static....74feca4af_b.jpg

Toyota Starlets were a fairly popular choice in Class B- whose is this one?
http://farm3.static....5e3c1e710_b.jpg

BMW M3- I suspect this may be yet another Brian Chatfield car...
http://farm4.static....16a0c33ba_b.jpg


The Starion is Rod Birley. I'm not sure of origins ( I thought Brodie shared with Rod, rather than it being an ex-Brodie car, but I may be wrong on this), and not many people know where it went. Rod isn't one of them - it got nicked from Brands' paddock.

The Belmont is still alive and well (ish). Owned by Rob Compton, most recently ran in BARC SE Saloons in a yellow / bluey-green livery, with a 6.6l V8 Chevy (after Manta 400, BDX and YB power).

Would definitely guess any quick-looking BMW is Brian Chatfield; I'll confirm the Starlet, and a few other things in the last few posts, when I get a chance to look up some info.

The Sean Walker car was run in Thundersaloons by Stuart Jackson, I think. The Donnan car was the JQF / Fina car driven in BTCC by Gerrit van Kouwen.

Thanks for the Merc / Escat pictures. Gary Cole still had the BX, and was racing it, a couple of years ago. It was for sale, but don't know if it found a new home or not. There doesn't look to be much useful left of the Chevette; it was sold earlier this year, and appears as though the new owner has stripped it of most bits.

Pete Thurston sold the Prelude a year or so ago. It's changed hands again since then, and is now in the Channel Islands, I think.

The Paul McMillan 309 (not the Morris brothers' car) emerged last year and was rumored sold, but I don't know if the sale completed.

Ex-Stuart Morton Empress Escort also came out of hiding recently.

Also, in that flickr album, the white capri could be Francis Butcher, or at least the car ended up with him - the red diagonal is a pointer. I'll check RT to be sure. And I'm happy to admit I was wrong in assuming the no77 Mazda was Ward / Dickinson. Glad to see entry lists for outside the time-span I already have covered. :)

#87 Jesper O. Hansen

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 02:35

The Donnan car was the JQF / Fina car driven in BTCC by Gerrit van Kouwen.


In fact JQF went through two BTCC RS500s in their lonely 1989 campain according to contemporary Autosport news.

Jesper


#88 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 07:31

If the Merc 190 at Jyllands-Ringen was a UK-based car, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't the Dell car- I can't think of any other British-based Mercedes that would fit the description- the 190 was always a fairly rare bird on the British racing scene (I can only think of a couple of production saloons and the odd rallycar) in any specification, let alone with a V8 in it....


As an aside there were the Production Saloon Cosworth Mercs in '85 & '86 plus a certain Andy Rouse had an ex-DTM 190 but I can't recall if he ever raced it. I alo seem to remember another ex-DTM 190 racing at Oulton Park a few years ago in the Northern Saloon car championship (or something similar) - it was up against Caterhams and Chris Maries in a space-frame Mini.

P.S. Dad raced Baby Bertha at Jyllands-Ringen in 1977 - he said it was like a kart track, very tight and twisty and didn't suit BB at all!!

#89 Tim Wilkinson

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 10:39

In fact JQF went through two BTCC RS500s in their lonely 1989 campain according to contemporary Autosport news.

Jesper


Any ideas where the cars came from, and why they changed?

Rouse raced a 190 in Britcar in either '04 or '05, and the owner of the ex-Bristow BTCC / Labatts Sierra also had a DTM Merc. However that was recently - I don't know if he ever went north, so maybe that was where that car was before.


#90 Kevan

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 12:25

Any ideas where the cars came from, and why they changed?

Rouse raced a 190 in Britcar in either '04 or '05, and the owner of the ex-Bristow BTCC / Labatts Sierra also had a DTM Merc. However that was recently - I don't know if he ever went north, so maybe that was where that car was before.


I seem to remember discussing that car on ten-tenths last year and being told that the Rouse and Martin Johnston Mercs were the same car, but I think it' might have been sold on again since?

Going back to some of the other cars discussed- as you and Jesper said,the Donnan RS500 was an ex-JQF/Fina car. Stuart ran it briefly in the 1990 BTCC (no more than one or two races) before converting it for Thundersaloons

There's a pic of the Starion on Rod Birley's website- in terms of the timescale of Rod's Thundersaloon career, think it was between the original Sierra-GA and the Sierra-Porsche? Did it use the original Mitsubishi turbo engine, or was it another car with a Cosworth? All I remember is that it was a turbo rather than a V8.

I think I've got a pic of Chatfield in the ex-Alpina M3 at Brands somewhere, in either a Thundersaloon or Modsaloon race. I'll see what else I can find

Does Ric Wood still have the ex-Shepherd Calibra? http://www.ricwood.c...50/DSC_0807.JPG Weren't there a couple of these built?

Edited by Kevan, 04 October 2009 - 12:26.


#91 Thundersports

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 10:47

Rods Starion was a Cosworth Turbo.

#92 Kevan

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 10:14

Rods Starion was a Cosworth Turbo.


Thanks- I was sure it was a turbo, but didn't have a clue whether it was a Mitsubishi or a Cossie

Anyway, a few more pics from elsewhere on t'internet...

More of the Bristow car- in both Arquati and Securicor colours:
http://img.photobuck...tts/fjcjxxf.jpg
http://img.photobuck...abatts/cgkk.jpg
...and before restoration to original BTCC Labatt's colours by Martin Johnston
(note the ex-Rouse Merc 190 mentioned a few posts back is parked next to it!)
http://img.photobuck.../Picture608.jpg
http://img.photobuck.../Picture605.jpg
http://img.photobuck.../Picture606.jpg
http://img.photobuck.../Picture613.jpg

The picswere originally posted by Martin on one of the various Ford enthusiasts' forums two or three years ago- the same thread had a post from Dale Minton, who was restoring his Thundersaloon RS2000
http://img393.images...ruckgp91cb9.jpg
http://img393.images...mpic3phpdg1.jpg

Edited by Kevan, 08 October 2009 - 10:14.


#93 Bunman

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 13:41

Great pics Simon:

the Citroen BX is mentioned in the Chevette article Gregor linked to a couple of posts back- apparently Gary Cole had plans to develop it into a 2-litre BTCC car

The Prelude is Richard Piper and Rod Birley- I always thought that was an absolutely stunning car, built by Jim Morgan, who'd done the Mann's Mazda RX7-Cosworth for Mike Wilson/Les Blackburn a few years before. Rod still owned and raced the Prelude up until around 2003- Apparently it's now with Peter Thurston down here in Kent, though I'm not sure if he's raced it?
(Peter's probably better known for his equally spectacular V8-powered Mk1 Escort, a regular at Lydden a couple of years back
http://www.redshoes-...ID=5767&cat=334 )

More on the Prelude
http://www.honda-pre...ebase/racing/5/
http://www.rodbirley.com/Honda.htm

Rod's website has pics and some history on all of his regular Thundersaloon mounts- the Sierra-Cosworth GA, and the Gartrac Sierra-Porsche (described as a 'technical nightmare') http://www.rodbirley.com/Sierra.htm , Mazda RX7 (the ex-Wilson/Blackburn car) http://www.rodbirley.com/Mazda.htm and the Prelude, plus a couple of others-
Joe Ward's ex-Ecurie Ecosse Manta 400,
http://www.rodbirley.../Opal Manta.JPG
and the ex-Dave Brodie Mitsubishi Starion: http://www.rodbirley...undersaloon.JPG



I definitely remember the Hooker Escort, but not sure if I ever saw the Merc or Derek Tyndall's Escat race



The Honda Prelude is residing in sunny Guernsey ( In my workshop ) :wave:

Even if I do say so myself she certainly is a stunning piece of engineering and I am currently gathering pictures and clippings to make a complete history folder so if anyone has any pics or info I would love to see them.

Regards
John

#94 Thundersports

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 13:43

Is the Honda now a mueseum piece or will it be excersised?

#95 Bunman

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 13:53

Is the Honda now a mueseum piece or will it be excersised?



Hi there, It is still fully functional although I have only used it once this season in anger. I planned to use it for Hillclimbing and Sprinting but I am having real trouble getting soft slicks in 17" dia.

My two options for next season are either race a few Circuit events ( circuit compound tyres readily available ) or have some 18" dia rims made to suit the BBS Mag centres so I can get some super sticky tyres for short venue tarmac events.

Not sure which way to go yet but whichever way I go I can safely say the car is an awesome thing to drive. :p



#96 Stephen W

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 14:28

Hi there, It is still fully functional although I have only used it once this season in anger. I planned to use it for Hillclimbing and Sprinting but I am having real trouble getting soft slicks in 17" dia.

My two options for next season are either race a few Circuit events ( circuit compound tyres readily available ) or have some 18" dia rims made to suit the BBS Mag centres so I can get some super sticky tyres for short venue tarmac events.

Not sure which way to go yet but whichever way I go I can safely say the car is an awesome thing to drive. :p


Does that mean that the Class record breaking Escort will be retired?

:wave:

#97 Bunman

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 15:26

Does that mean that the Class record breaking Escort will be retired?

:wave:


Hi Steve, no I will keep the Escort and further develop it over the winter, I have a clicky box for it and some extra electronic gadgetry in store.

I will probably sell my Renault though as I have been threatening to restore it for the last 5 years and it just hasn't happened.
It is No 182 of the 200 cars Renault built in 1984/5 to homologate the Maxi Turbo for Group B rallying.


Can't do everything eh mate. :well:


#98 Stephen W

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 16:08

Can't do everything eh mate. :well:


Would that we could! :wave:

#99 Groggy

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 15:56

Sincere apologies to the person who left a message asking for copies of the photo's i previously posted on this topic.

I tried a couple of times and the mail kept bouncing back and then i promptly forgot about it.

If you would still like a copy can you let me have your contact details again and i will have another go.

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#100 mdswat

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 20:24

Sincere apologies to the person who left a message asking for copies of the photo's i previously posted on this topic.

I tried a couple of times and the mail kept bouncing back and then i promptly forgot about it.

If you would still like a copy can you let me have your contact details again and i will have another go.


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