38 replies to this topic

[DanDectis]

I just got through reading the excelleng interview with Rossi and was curious about the bit where he had a spat with Max Biaggi, I did a bit of poking around but didn't really come to any conclusion. That all happened well before I became interested in MotoGp so I'm not up on what happened with those two.

If anyone would be willing to fill me in, it would be appreciated.

[beanoid]

Watch the movie Faster. Best short-form characterization of all of that, anywhere.

[DanDectis]

Watch the movie Faster. Best short-form characterization of all of that, anywhere.

I'll have to look into that, I still would kind of like to hear a bit about it all though.

[beanoid]

http://www.livevideo...i-suzuka-j.aspx

http://news.bbc.co.u...ort/1275685.stm

http://www.telegraph...ys-witness.html

http://www.independe...act-676798.html

Those should give you a good idea. Keep in mind that this was only Rossi's second year in the premier class, and Biaggi was commonly hailed at the time as the next big thing.

EDIT: And do try to find that video. It really will give you an enormous insight.

Edited by beanoid, 09 September 2009 - 17:38.

[hulmerist]

Rossi had only a bit-part in the post-race wrecking of Biaggi's car at Mugello in 2004. A few riders, including Colin Edwards and Kurtis Roberts, located it, turned it on its side and started filling it with the detritus of race day. That was when the door to the nearest motorhome swung open. A figure lumbered towards them in the half-shadows and burst out laughing. “No, no,” Rossi said with one of his infectious grins. “It's better on the roof.”

Edited by hulmerist, 09 September 2009 - 17:41.

[TheArmchairCritic]

http://www.livevideo...i-suzuka-j.aspx

Middle finger at 150mph. Another reason why Valentino Rossi is a legend.

[DanDectis]

Thanks for the awesome replies guys. I will definitely be able to edify myself with this

[Atreiu]

I don't know what ticked Biaggi off, but sticking his elbow out was way over the line.
He should have a got a nice long suspension to chill out after that.

[mstar]

there was various spats between vale and max, to much to write here lol

[Muz Bee]

To explain how the animosity reached such intensity from a psych profile POV - Max takes himself Soooo seriously, Vale is a cocky little prankster who arrived in time to take over Max's mantle as the great Italian hope.

Years on and

Max is an overrated (at Aprilia) old ex champion who lacks charisma and speed (the RSV4 is arguably the quick bike in SBK)

Valentino is still the Joker (ad nauseum IMO), and the mega quick and clever racing legend. Have to say the Donkey trick was cute though. Imagine Biaggi being the butt of the joke and you would see the dislike and how it occurred.

Edited by Muz Bee, 09 September 2009 - 22:49.

[Chubby_Deuce]

Max is an overrated (at Aprilia) old ex champion who lacks charisma and speed (the RSV4 is arguably the quick bike in SBK)

[Seanspeed]

the RSV4 is arguably the quick bike in SBK

In the same way that I'm arguably better looking than Brad Pitt......

[Muz Bee]

Lap speeds which are right with the best - and first laps which see him unprepared to use his elbows and do what he's paid to do - race! Starting with Phillip Island where he ran wide at Southern Loop and sank without trace until settling into decent lap times for.... 11th! Falling off on last lap at the same round while contesting a half-decent result. This has been a familiar pattern at virtually every round where he has qualified near front and been carved by everyone for the first two laps. Clearly he has lost any aggression he may have had in GP and struggles to put convincing passes together in time to recover. The bike lacks not for straight line speed and can do the times so......

Credit where credit is due though - he rode OK at Brno for the 1/2 and overall, the only highlight in a disappointing season. But I think he has never recovered from Vale. Aprilia are wasting a potential champion bike on a has-been. Yes, given the closeness of the field I think, Spies and Haga apart, there are plenty of rostrum fillers but most look either too junior (Rea, Sykes) or too senior (Biaggi, Checa) to be frequent winners.

Back to the main act I see Stoner is still confirming a return for the next round - what could have been for the 3 make battle at the front!

[craftverk]

Middle finger at 150mph. Another reason why Valentino Rossi is a legend.

No

[Seanspeed]

Lap speeds which are right with the best - and first laps which see him unprepared to use his elbows and do what he's paid to do - race! Starting with Phillip Island where he ran wide at Southern Loop and sank without trace until settling into decent lap times for.... 11th! Falling off on last lap at the same round while contesting a half-decent result. This has been a familiar pattern at virtually every round where he has qualified near front and been carved by everyone for the first two laps. Clearly he has lost any aggression he may have had in GP and struggles to put convincing passes together in time to recover. The bike lacks not for straight line speed and can do the times so......

Comparing lap times over a fraction of a race simply doesn't work. Hell, Corser on the BMW put in fastest lap in the first round at PI, but that doesn't mean his bike is capable of front-running pace the entire race distance.

I think Max has had a pretty good season so far. Not stellar, but good. The bike is still new, and while its been a bit inconsistent, thats not much different from everybody else, apart from Spies and the two Xerox Ducatis.

[Muz Bee]

In the same way that I'm arguably better looking than Brad Pitt......

Can't tell from your avatar Sean.... but we could place bets???

As I said in my post above the field is very close so picking the bike to beat needs to be made at each track, conditions etc.
My points being - the RSV4 doesn't lack for speed, and Max gets mugged throughout lap 1 and usually into lap 2. He doesn't seem to like close quarters racing which isn't a recipe for getting past evenly matched competitors - sometime a pass requires 2 or 3 turns to get done.

[Muz Bee]

Comparing lap times over a fraction of a race simply doesn't work. Hell, Corser on the BMW put in fastest lap in the first round at PI, but that doesn't mean his bike is capable of front-running pace the entire race distance.

I think Max has had a pretty good season so far. Not stellar, but good. The bike is still new, and while its been a bit inconsistent, thats not much different from everybody else, apart from Spies and the two Xerox Ducatis.

You make good points, I don't have to win an argument but I don't expect Max to add to his tally of World Championships. Johnny Rea looked pretty good apart from his clumsy move on Nori the other day though didn't he? Hanspree Ten Kata Honda know a thing or two about making a bike competitive over a season.

Edited by Muz Bee, 10 September 2009 - 01:36.

[Muz Bee]

No

No - it's the ears! They should be mandatory (on bikes with #46) at all rounds.

[PassWind]

Rossi cometh, Max gets pwned, Max no like, da end!

[Poltergeistes]

racing is sports, sports is entertainment, thou racing max was very good, rossi was even better, but what made such a huge gap between those 2, is simply personality, rossi is an entertainer, max isn't. max should be a footballer, rossi a racer. to me it's as simple as that.

[beanoid]

Rossi cometh, Max gets pwned, Max no like, da end!

[charger2000]

I just got through reading the excelleng interview with Rossi and was curious about the bit where he had a spat with Max Biaggi, I did a bit of poking around but didn't really come to any conclusion. That all happened well before I became interested in MotoGp so I'm not up on what happened with those two.

If anyone would be willing to fill me in, it would be appreciated.

the rivalty beetween Rossi and Biaggi started many years ago, when Rossi was in the 125cc class, and he was fooling around Max with a porn doll,
at that time Biaggi's fiancee was Anna Falchi, famous italian, and gorgeus, soubrette, and was ingaged with Naomi Campbell too,
Max wasn't in the mood for that kind of jokes from a "child" ...

Nik

http://www.telefree....p=view&id=65510

Edited by charger2000, 12 September 2009 - 16:26.

[cheapracer]

I feel a bit sorry for Max, sure he's not the class clown but who gives a ****, I only care about their talent. Upon saying that Rossi has had me in tears of laughter, remember when he stopped for a piss on the slow down lap after a win?

For those who seemed to have forgotten, Max absolutely dominated and was untouchable in the 250's winning 3 World Champs in a row and had everyone yelling "It's because the Aprillia is so good" - so with pure spite he signed with Honda and proceeded to whip the clearly faster Aprillia's with pure skill the next year. I watched everyone of those races and he was simply the best.

He then went to 500's with quite a rep and expectations but bad luck came about because Mick Doohan was an enigma and untouchable and then when Mick stopped Rossi, also an enigma stepped in - oh and I will add that Biaggi didn't have the talent of Jeremy Burgess, the king of race bike engineering who steered, Fast Freddie, Gardner, Doohan and Rossi to all their success.

Not bad stats by the way including his dogged time against Doohan and Rossi, he has stood on the podium for more than half of his GP's ever and I'm not going to look but I wouldn't be surprised if he is the most successful 250 rider ever.

Very talented man but it's true - no personality.

Edited by cheapracer, 12 September 2009 - 16:50.

[Frans]

Biaggi, heheheh.... pffffft. ... hehehe. that was fun yeah.

[Ody Mandrell]

I will add that Biaggi didn't have the talent of Jeremy Burgess, the king of race bike engineering who steered, Fast Freddie, Gardner, Doohan and Rossi to all their success.

Probably one of the best championship wins was had by Lawson in '89, achieved without Burgess' help (nor did Lawson have Burgess' wrenching for any of his other championships).

Burgess was a factor in the success of the riders you mentioned, but he's not a sufficient condition for winning. Rossi famously asked Burgess to go to Yamaha with him, but was ready to go without him -- not the move of a rider dependent on his crew chief.

As for Biaggi, sure he was a great 250 rider and a very good 500/MotoGP one, but as Rainey said in Faster, it was no rivalry between Biaggi and Rossi on the track -- Rossi trounced him.

[ehagar]

He then went to 500's with quite a rep and expectations but bad luck came about because Mick Doohan was an enigma and untouchable and then when Mick stopped Rossi, also an enigma stepped in - oh and I will add that Biaggi didn't have the talent of Jeremy Burgess, the king of race bike engineering who steered, Fast Freddie, Gardner, Doohan and Rossi to all their success.

Max Biaggi had Erv Kanemoto, Freddie Spencer's chief man during his double world championship. The problem wasn't who was wrenching the bike but in Biaggi's head. He won on 250s with Aprilia and eventually got let go because he became too much of a pain in the ass for them. He nearly ruined his career with the way he left Repsol Honda... whatever he said left him rideless for a year.

[Ody Mandrell]

whatever he said left him rideless for a year.

He called the bike a piece of **** and it was promptly reported to Honda HQ. He was going to be fired before the end of the season, but IRTA stepped in to protect him.

Biaggi had burned his bridges previously at Yamaha, so Honda didn't have to collude with them to keep Biaggi from riding an M1 again.

[ehagar]

Correct me if I am wrong... but didn't Batta want him in his year of exile and Suzuki was not pleased as well? Threats of pulling import licences?!? It wasn't until the following year that he started his WSBK career.

Edited by ehagar, 12 September 2009 - 20:40.

[chillerguy]

Seems like max was going to ride a satellite Honda but Honda nixxed that even thought the deal had already been done. A Camel sponsored bike maybe?

[Ody Mandrell]

Seems like max was going to ride a satellite Honda but Honda nixxed that even thought the deal had already been done. A Camel sponsored bike maybe?

Right, Pons wanted Biaggi but Honda refused to provide Pons with a bike if he hired Biaggi.

I don't blame Honda -- Biaggi said he couldn't ride a piece of ****, so Honda was just holding him to it.

[Kaiser]

Biaggi almost ran over my dog at Miller in the paddock with his golf cart, then gives me a dirty look. There was plenty of room for him, I pulled my dog in to make sure there was room. I threw him a hard look, but I don't think he cared. My wife came out of the restroom and I told her about it and she said "We don't like him anyway"

In any event, anyone who doesn't think he's dome a good job on the Aprillia this year doesn't know what they're talking about. Compare his results to the other new team, or even the new bike from Suzuki and he's done a great job. Far better than I expected him to do. He's been at the sharp end at most tracks on a brand new bike.

Faster covers the Rossi-Biaggi rivalry well. You just have to deal with a young obi-wan talking the whole time. At least he's not singing sappy love songs about a hooker.

[ehagar]

For a first year bike with a lot of development left in it, he is doing a great job. Unfortunately the same can't be said for Nakano at the moment...

[cheapracer]

Probably one of the best championship wins was had by Lawson in '89, achieved without Burgess' help (nor did Lawson have Burgess' wrenching for any of his other championships).

Burgess was a factor in the success of the riders you mentioned, but he's not a sufficient condition for winning. Rossi famously asked Burgess to go to Yamaha with him, but was ready to go without him -- not the move of a rider dependent on his crew chief.

As for Biaggi, sure he was a great 250 rider and a very good 500/MotoGP one, but as Rainey said in Faster, it was no rivalry between Biaggi and Rossi on the track -- Rossi trounced him.

Yeah and Ago didn't have Burgess either, what's your point?

And Burgess did go with Rossi so we don't know how much bearing a great engineer in bikes has for Doohan or Rossi do we? But I can tell you Mick a little and he wears slipon shoes because other types of have laces - know what I mean? As for Rossi I already clearly mentioned that he is an enigma.

Both Doohan and Rossi were better than Biaggi on open bikes, you seem to think I said other.

Biaggi almost ran over my dog at Miller in the paddock with his golf cart, then gives me a dirty look. There was plenty of room for him, I pulled my dog in to make sure there was room. I threw him a hard look, but I don't think he cared.

WTF are you doing with a dog at a racetrack? Are you aware how pissed off most racers are with people who take animals to race meetings?

Edited by cheapracer, 14 September 2009 - 04:22.

[GregAU]

Rossi cometh, Max gets pwned, Max no like, da end!

Wasnt Biaggi just left over slops from the Doohan era?
He was already mentally scarred before Rossi got to him.

Edited by GregAU, 14 September 2009 - 04:45.

[Chubby_Deuce]

WTF are you doing with a dog at a racetrack? Are you aware how pissed off most racers are with people who take animals to race meetings?

A large percentage of racers around here bring dogs to the races. The only part that bothers me about it is when they don't clean up after them.

[Ody Mandrell]

Yeah and Ago didn't have Burgess either, what's your point?

I quoted you earlier to make it clear what point I was trying to make. Again:

Biaggi didn't have the talent of Jeremy Burgess, the king of race bike engineering who steered, Fast Freddie, Gardner, Doohan and Rossi to all their success.

I don't agree with the implication that failure or success in winning the world championship is dependent on Burgess, and maybe your Ago remark is some sort of acknowledgment.

Besides Lawson there was also Rainey and Schwantz winning championships despite Burgess working for other riders.

Edited by Ody Mandrell, 14 September 2009 - 15:24.

[Kaiser]

WTF are you doing with a dog at a racetrack? Are you aware how pissed off most racers are with people who take animals to race meetings?

I've never encountered a upset racer upon sighting a dog at the track.
Maybe you shouldn't let yours **** around other people pit, or at least clean up after it.

[Kaiser]

I quoted you earlier to make it clear what point I was trying to make. Again:

I don't agree with the implication that failure or success in winning the world championship is dependent on Burgess, and maybe your Ago remark is some sort of acknowledgment.

Besides Lawson there was also Rainey and Schwantz winning championships despite Burgess working for other riders.

Roberts, Hayden and Stoner.

[Kaiser]

Don't get mad!!