14 replies to this topic

[cordell777]

(EDIT: Scirocco - not Scirroco )

Hi there simulators

Just for a notice. Very soon a next LifeForSpeed (LFS) update will be finished:

Fri, Aug 21st, 2009 20:30
>New Tyre Physics
Hello LFS Racers,

We are pleased to announce that a new tyre physics model is currently in the testing and refinement stage.

Many community members have been wondering what happened to the release of the new VW Scirocco and why there was no news about it.
Here are the reasons why :

While we were working on the Scirocco in December, we found that we could not make the LFS model handle as well as the real car. One of the reasons for this was that the LFS tyres had too much grip and this was causing the inside wheels to lose too much load while cornering. But simply reducing the grip would not have been a good approach... the result would have been just the same old LFS but at lower speeds.

We decided to look into a completely new core tyre model.

For several weeks it was just research and mathematics on paper, then the implementation started. A lot of old programming needed to be removed and refined in order to allow the new model to slot into its place. Next was the early refinement stage, at first seen only by the developers, while the main issues were sorted out. During this period we did not want to make any announcements about what we were working on, because it was possible that the new tyre model would not really work out. That did seem less likely as time went on, as more of the problems with the old tyre model came to the surface. The new LFS tyre model has a good mathematical basis for the way forces are produced from the physical state of the tyre, resulting in improved handling and feel with greater realism.

After some time we got to a stage where we felt the model was a clear improvement on the old physics. We updated all the default setups to use realistic values that would be found on similar real world cars and finally released it to our beta testers. Their verdict is unanimous : the new tyre physics model makes the cars much better and more realistic to drive.

There is quite a bit of refinement to be done and other aspects of car physics to update. Also the traction control and stability control of the VW Scirocco still need to be updated. So we cannot yet give a release date. This news item is intended as a progress report and to assure you that Live for Speed will be better when you do get the update!

A reminder :
- The new physics will be a free update for all LFS users
- The VW Scirocco will be available to S1 and S2 license holders

It's totaly great news - becouse tyre model has been (almost) completely rewritten (old tyre-physics flaws are mentioned in the above text). It took them about 7-8 months.

Here's a Scirocco teaser (published quite some time ago): LFS Scirocco teaser
And another LFS link for those, who never played the game before: LFS

All good

Edited by cordell777, 11 September 2009 - 05:19.

[cordell777]

Holy shiyat, I cannot beleive no-one here ever tried LFS ?

People, give it a try (see Wikipedia LFS for more info) :
1) Full game installation is ~130MB
2) Probably most-advanced physics modelling currently available for a computer game
3) It runs with 70-100 FPS with 20-30 online-drivers on todays AVERAGE computer (Win, Linux (Wine), Mac (Bootcamp))
4) Smooth and "clean" graphics
5) ALL on-line-driving-statisic (for a specific player/account) is uploaded in real-time to LFS servers (where you can compare gazillion of things with others)
6) Most impressive FFB-code (+ Logitech G25 and there you go - amazing driving-experience)
7) etc.

Cheers

[DanDectis]

Interesting news, I had pretty much forgot about the Scirroco update, or any other updates for that matter. It's great to hear that they are working on it though. I still love that game even though I take hiatuses from it.

For me, a nice sized grid in FOX cars is video game sex...

[cordell777]

For me, a nice sized grid in FOX cars is video game sex...

Uff, and a first real track-comming-update from today: LFS - Rockingham

All good

[DanDectis]

Uff, and a first real track-comming-update from today: LFS - Rockingham

All good

wow a real track? I am really out of the loop on LFS...it has probably been a few months since I've played it at this point...

Rockingham though? Meh...maybe I'll be proven wrong but roval courses = boring as hell to me.

[Tenmantaylor]

Great news LFS needs more real content to be successful, it got a bit stale the last couple of years in the community. The new updates look great. The phsyics model has always been great and im sure the new updates will make it even better, cant wait to try it!

[BunnyK]

The update looks fine, hope they don't follow the iRacing road... as I've understood Rockingham will be an S3 track.

[Tenmantaylor]

The update looks fine, hope they don't follow the iRacing road... as I've understood Rockingham will be an S3 track.

I dont think they'yre planning to go down a monthly subscription route.

If S3 comes out with only 1 new car and track it will get added to over time like the previous releases. Even if it only ever includes the Scirocco and Rockingham (Sciroccingham?) its good value compared to iRacing due to the fact you can use the game indefinately.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 05 October 2009 - 09:51.

[cordell777]

I dont think they'yre planning to go down a monthly subscription route.

True,

all good

[cordell777]

From LFS site (LFS Progress Report)

Tyre Physics Progress Report

Hello LFS Racers,

As we said in our news item on 21st August, we have been working on a new tyre physics model. It has a good mathematical basis for the forces a tyre produces under varying circumstances and does feel good to drive, so we are very pleased with the new model. The new physics and plans for the VW Scirocco have inspired some other developments that are now important to get the best experience from the updates.

Most of the remaining development is in the following sections :

- Tyre heating and cooling
- AI driver improvements
- Limited setup system
- Suspension updates
- VW stability control

We'll now talk a little about these things, and some of our plans. Please be aware that these are just plans as we see them now. Plans can change, and they often do, so it is very likely that some things you read below will be different from the final result.

Tyre heating and cooling

As the tyre model is completely different, both in the contact patch (frictional effects) and also the way the tyre reacts to loads (deflection depending on air pressure and sidewall stiffness) the old tyre heating system no longer worked properly. So we have been trying new things, with some success, but at this time there are still noticeable issues that need to be sorted out. We found it impossible to simply use the old heating model with some adjusted figures as we had hoped. Some more real updates are needed to get the heating and cooling of tyres right.

AI driver improvements

Just recently we discovered that the AI were driving around too slowly because they were underestimating the available grip. But because available grip depends on tyre load in a non-linear way, it turns out that some of the programming for the AI drivers needs a little reorganising. Many community members like to drive with AI in single player mode, so it is important for them to drive at a good speed.

Limited setup system

We mentioned before that the VW Scirocco would be our first car with a limited setup. But as time went by, that plan changed a little. We realised that limited setups would be a popular option for online hosts. It is a feature that has often been requested. It would allow people to race in road cars that feel like road cars (not stiffened and lowered) and still be competitive. So we decided the limited setups should be an option that applies to many of the LFS cars. For example, in limited setup mode, the standard road cars would only allow tyre pressure and toe adjustments. The LX6 / RAC / FZ5 class (LRF) would also allow compression and rebound damping to be adjusted along with ride height and adjustable anti roll bars (in some cases). The idea is to allow the same adjustments you could make on the real car without changing any parts.

Suspension updates

In order to implement the limited setup system, we needed some good standard setups, the kind that these cars would have in real life. In comparison with most LFS setups currently in use, the new default road car setups are a lot softer. Our testers noticed that with the new setups some cars can be a bit tricky at times, for example when adjusting the accelerator while cornering or when braking into corners. In real life, the suspension geometry is designed to produce an anti-dive effect under braking and anti-squat under acceleration. This has until now been absent from the LFS suspension systems, but now looks like an important development to support the realistic setups.

VW stability control

The special traction control and stability control systems for the VW Scirocco still need to be completed. We don't intend to make this as complex and refined as the real VW systems. We do want to recreate some of the beneficial effects of those systems that can apply individual wheel brakes to help the car go where the driver wants it to, when things begin to get out of shape.

We hope this progress report gives some insight into what has been going on. As you can see there are still important things to be completed. It's hard to know how long the tyre heat and suspension updates will take, so we are still not able to estimate a release date.

A reminder :
- The new physics will be a free update for all LFS users
- The VW Scirocco will be available to S1 and S2 license holders

Edited by cordell777, 30 November 2009 - 13:06.

[SPBHM]

Limited setup system is something I'm waiting for, the road cars will be a lot more fun to drive like this.

[Tenmantaylor]

Limited setup system is something I'm waiting for, the road cars will be a lot more fun to drive like this.

Whilst I also am looking forward to it aswell cars setup for the road arent necessarily more fun to drive, id guess less. It may however add an element to the online racing as it will probably limit the crazy setups that get developed to exploit physics loop holes.

[bootlegapparel]

I can't believe there's not more discussion about live for speed, it's such a great game, amazingly real. The level of detail and effort the guys who make it are putting in is incredible.

[SPBHM]

I can't believe there's not more discussion about live for speed, it's such a great game, amazingly real. The level of detail and effort the guys who make it are putting in is incredible.

I think I've been playing LFS since 2005, and I agree it's quite good,
but the rate in which they update the game is really slow, the "Scirroco" car is still not ready, as the new tire model...

[Bunchies]

Played LFS since well before S1 was released. It feels like it's been nearly 10 years. The updates are simply too slow, and GTR blew this game away for me.