55 replies to this topic

[hamsterace]

Morning everyone,

For the purposes of my own historical research, I was wondering if anyone had any photographs of Jaguar E Type Series 1 Fixed Head Coupe Competition cars racing in the period 1962 - 65?

Obviously the majority of the E Type's competition history was achieved using the roadster with hardtop and low-drag variants, but I would be interested to hear from anyone with any memories or photographs of racing Fixed Head cars.

Many thanks.

[Graham Gauld]

Morning everyone,

For the purposes of my own historical research, I was wondering if anyone had any photographs of Jaguar E Type Series 1 Fixed Head Coupe Competition cars racing in the period 1962 - 65?

Obviously the majority of the E Type's competition history was achieved using the roadster with hardtop and low-drag variants, but I would be interested to hear from anyone with any memories or photographs of racing Fixed Head cars.

Many thanks.

Ironically I only got back from Modena this afternoon having spent some time with old friends from the Circolo de la Biella ( The Con-Rod Circle) a club of historic racers from Modena. Renzo Raimondi the current President was telling me that he and his brother Roberto were now racing E type Coupes in Italian historic racing. Previously they raced Lotus Elites. As a side issue, his mother named all three of her sons with christian names beginning with R. There are Renzo Roberto and Raimondo and it used to be confusing when they were all running in the same class as you had three R Raimondo's and had to work out who was who. I will see if I can find a photo of the Raimondo cars but there are one or two Coupes that race in Italian historic events.

[bradbury west]

Morning everyone,
For the purposes of my own historical research, I was wondering if anyone had any photographs of Jaguar E Type Series 1 Fixed Head Coupe Competition cars racing in the period 1962 - 65?

Look for photos or info of Brian Waddilove's light metallic blue/metallic light blue coupe BRW26. There is one shot in Autosport for certain, at Rufforth. He bought it new very early on after the car's launch, not sure if it was fitted with a works comp modified engine. He competed at Rufforth and possibly other Northern circuits and hillclimbs in period. He commuted to work in Bradford in it, and after school I used to watch it go past the end of the road where our house was, sad I know but that is what we did in those halcyon days when performance cars were rare sights. His family were some sort of financiers etc. They lived in a very grand house in Ilkley in Yorkshire.
As an aside I believe there is a Brian Waddilove trophy at the Idle ( an area of Bradford) Fishing Club.

I think the John Mitchell - Jonspeed at Mirfield garage, Honley, Huddersfield, car was a hardtop version, but Robin Sturgess whose family garage were in Leicester, definitely ran a red coupe 2BBC, now re registered as something else. Perhaps their dealership still exists. There is a photo in one of the Jaguar books. The JDC will have full details

Roger Lund

edit
We have alaready covered John Quick in coupe WOO 11 on another thread

Edited by bradbury west, 13 September 2009 - 18:10.

[Pedro 917]

E-type Coupes are entered on a regular basis at the Nürburgring Historic Marathon race on the Nordschleife during the Oldtimer GP weekend.
Here are a couple of pictures from this year's event. I don't have period pictures I'm afraid.









Car # 69 driven by Zoomers-Oetelaar (Holland), DNF - crashed out....







Car # 66 driven by Luisoder - Lamberty (Trier - Germany), 6th OA

[bradbury west]

There is also, IIRC, a shot or two of BRW26 at a very early meeting at Harewood hillclimb on the John Holroyd/ Yorkshire SCC/Harewood website, but I cannot find it at present.
Roger Lund

BTW, since you have just joined, welcome. However, there is a good search facility on the top of the Forum. You will find it very beneficial to learn how that works. Happy to help, as we all are, but not too keen to do all the work. What is the nature of your research, as there are plenty of Jaguar books etc, plus JDC and JOC clubs etc etc. ?
With the name you use you're not that Hammond chap are you?
RL

Edited by bradbury west, 13 September 2009 - 19:59.

[David McKinney]

Scott Wiseman raced an fhc in UK in 1967, then took it home to New Zealand with him. Reg looks like 504FOF

[CoulthardD]

There is also, IIRC, a shot or two of BRW26 at a very early meeting at Harewood hillclimb on the John Holroyd/ Yorkshire SCC/Harewood website, but I cannot find it at present.
Roger Lund

I think this is the one you mean?

http://www.harewoodh...r...6&setYear=0

I belive the Waddiloves were involved with Provident Clothing and Supply Company in Bradford, now called Profident Financial, the company I work for.

DC

[Sharman]

George Humble ran a Red Coupe and I was told that Innocente Baggio ran one in the Targa Florio but somebody may correct me on that.

[Ted Walker]

I think what we are looking for here is a PERIOD photo of a FHC racing at an International event,showing flared rear wheel arches. I cant find one either.

[simon drabble]

ahhh - sounds like he has been picked up by the FIA scrutes! No wonder he is using a nom de plume!!

[cooper997]

Bob Jane raced a red FHC in Australia back in 1963, before the arrival of his lightweight E Type. You should find some photos on www.autopics.com.au or TNF member, ellrosso's www.oldracephotos.com

Stephen

[bradbury west]

[quote name='simon drabble' date='Sep 14 2009, 08:22' post='3859462']
ahhh - sounds like he has been picked up by the FIA scrutes! No wonder he is using a nom de plume!! /quote]
That will make me think twice about being quite so helpful to unqualified requests in future. I suspect that the relevant wheel widths dictated by appropriate tyre sizes which chaps ran in period, on nwires or D Type mag.alloys, were easily accommodated by the standard wheel arches until the lightweights arrived.

Just remembered the Peters Lumsden/Sargent 898BYR low roof coupe also on D type wheels. I imagine finding a period coupe in an International meeting might be hard to find. Surely there are plenty of Jag experts in the clubs. There is also the Maurice Charles car 503BB0 and the Cunningham/Salvadori car, all 3 at LM in 62. Photos all show standard rear wing and wheel arch sections

If it means the questioner , along with others, has to revert to standard period spec, well, life is sad. More power to the FIA etc. It would be nice to see period spec meaning just that.
Dismounts from hobby horse and exits left.
Roger Lund

[Red Socks]

This is fun isn't it?

Homologation 100 clearly states that the Jaguar E Type is /can be open or closed, both types are homologated. In consequence therefore all the items which were used on the factory roadster lightweights could have been used on the Coupes if anyone had decided it was worthwhile. In that it was pretty soon apparent that the E Type was never going to be quick enough to do the business, it was not used in the maximum homologated form in coupe condition with exception, IIRC, of the four alternate coupes-898 BYR, Lindner Nocker , 49BXN and CUT 7 whose body shapes were other than ''standard'' coupe, certainly in profile.
Two things flow from this however reference car shape.The first incarnation of 898 BYR, as it ran to start with, was simply an aluminium coupe top grafted onto a roadster body-the back gate not being used just a window and the opening boot of the roadster. The 1962 Cunningham car of course ran at Le Mans before the homologation was passed by the FIA but despite its not complying with Appendix J as a GT car was accepted in the Le Mans regulations as a Grand Touring car. Those two cars are very close to the required body shape.
However , and despite Rogers rather acid tone, the FIA Historic Cars Commission took this all on board thirty or so years ago and either under the Presidency of Michael Bowler or maybe Roberto Causo agreed and accepted that the FHC could run appropriate body work to use the homolgated options.
There needs,perhaps, to be a remembrance that it is the homologation which is critical rather than the use. IIRC the Gilbern has no International history but is homologated and the HMSC have agreed that the homologation is all that matters.
It seems strange and disapppointing that there is such inconsistency of decision making sometimes-buy hey why should one asume that those in authority know what they are doing?

[hamsterace]

Gentlemen,

I can see that perhaps I should have been a bit more explicit in my inital post (incidentally, the first I have made on this forum), as we seem to be heading slightly "off tack" here. From the last comment, it would appear that I have already irked some people into thinking that I am seeking to "pull a fast one". This is certainly not my intention.

I would like to clarify a few things in order to allay the fears of some:

1.) My name is Simon Ham and my father, David, and I have just completed the rebuild of a 1963 Jaguar E Type Series 1 FHC.

2.) The car has been built to Appendix K regulations, in the spirit of the Cunningham/ Salvadori '62 Le Mans car and with the intention of being used as a long distance car. It has aluminium bonnet and doors, but retains the steel tub and rear door. It is also MOT'd and taxed and has been used as a surprisingly civilised road car this summer. If anyone is under the impression that it has been built as some kind of no-expense-spared Evo VIII world beater to win the RAC TT at Goodwood/ Spa 6 hours/ Nurburgring Marathon, then please think again. My father and I are nowhere near foolish enough to take on the mega-budgets of certain competitors out there intent on modifying cars beyond period in order to go "pot-hunting".

3.) My family and I are fortunate in having several other cars - all of which run to original specification. "Hot Rods" are of no interest to us. My father has been racing since 1960, and recalls many of the cars racing in historics today when they were running in period. Indeed, it is a source of consternation to him that there are certain cars which - through "over-development" - are competitive now, yet were not competitive in period.

4.) We have applied for FIA papers for this car, and - indeed - Simon Drabble is partly correct in thinking that the FIA have raised concerns at the wheel arches and have encouraged us to search for period photographs (ie. pre-1965) showing these on any racing FHCs. Having said this, I would add that these are considerably narrower (as are the rim sizes, at a cursory glance) than the two cars shown in the photographs above!

5.) We have searched through numerous books, photographic archives and internet search facilities, which, as yet, have not unearthed anything. I had hoped that by opening the matter up to a forum such as this, the proverbial "needle in a haystack" may be unearthed.

I hope this sets the record straight. I value the facility of this forum, and please excuse me if I was somewhat naive in my original wording.

Kind regards,

Simon

[bradbury west]

[quote name='Red Socks' date='Sep 14 2009, 13:01' post='3859966']
This is fun isn't it?
and despite Rogers rather acid tone, .......... [quote]

Whilst I see no reason to apologise, no offence was intended. My views on newcomers coming on board and asking for all info etc etc are well known, as is my view on originality/period mods, but you cannot put the genie back in the bottle. Having made my point I still offerred further examples in good faith.
ISTR that Paddy McNally tested at least one comp E type in period in Autosport. Yopu might also find some photos of such cars in the For Sale ads.
RL

PS Poster; I remember your father David very well with his cars over the years. RL

PPS Just found a test of Ken Baker's successful 7CXW hardtop car, AS 14.12.62 page 813, not International afaik, but it may help.
RL

Edited by bradbury west, 14 September 2009 - 13:58.

[Ted Walker]

I do have a vested interest as I have inspected and submitted to the FIA a FHC with stretched arches exactly as first CUT7 sports (with an HTP !!! )

[Paul Parker]

Pictures of the Brian/John Playford engineered Jaguar E type (850009) are easy enough to find in assorted books, period mags and photo archives like LAT.

However if anybody is not aware the Sargent/Lumsden car was in fact a 1961 roadster that was converted into a FHC, firstly still using the roadster windscreen/side windows and chrome trim, bumpers and wire wheels with a rough and ready alloy roof for the 1962 Le Mans April test days and then later as a finished article with the D type pattern wheels (with steel centres I think) and re-designed, re-positioned interior bulkheads, alloy tail etc. The reason for the lower than standard roofline is that the car retained the roadster screen. The car also raced at the '62 Goodwood TT driven by PJSL and I seem to recall that Les Fowler raced it later but it was really a pukka endurance racer and not a 10-25 lap sprint car. It was entered and accepted as a GT car but in fact it was nothing like a production FHC from the bonnet backwards, indeed the bonnet was non-standard, subtly different and featured a NACA duct.

Less easy to find is the Maurice Charles '62 Le Mans entry, a genuine FHC (860458) whilst the Cunningham car (860630) is another that is relatively accessible via period journals, archives etc.

I haven't read all the posts but there is also the earlier Protheroe CUT 7s, John Quick's later modsports WOO 11 (that was rebuilt and owned recently by Christian Traber in Switzerlandand, although I don't know if he still has it now) and so on.

Meanwhile good luck with the E type Simon and yes indeed the several and varied FHC E types that race at the Oldtimer events over the years do tend to have wide rims, whereas apart from the Peters' 898 BYR and the '62 Le Mans Cunningham car I cannot think of any other genuine period competition coops in Europe that used anything other than wire wheels until the later modsports era.

[simon drabble]

my comment was made tongue firmly in cheek and I like your respoonse - we have similar approach to historics. I wish you luck in your quest and I think its great that people are moving away from the "lightweight" etype look.
As a matter of interest is it was fine to run ali bonnet with steel tub? I though they were trying to get people to run steel bonnets with steel tubs??
Have you tried contacting the author of a great book I am reading at the moment callled Cat out of the Bag which is about the E Type written by someone who worked in the competitions dept at jaguar (sorry to sound a complete anorak!!) He might be able to give you better colour...

[Red Socks]

It does seem to me a little curious that there seems to be speculation as to the FIA requirements. Perhaps it would be a better system if they were to tell competitors exactly what it is they want. That would of course pre suppose that they do in fact know.

[bradbury west]

Less easy to find is the Maurice Charles '62 Le Mans entry, a genuine FHC (860458) whilst the Cunningham car (860630) is another that is relatively accessible via period journals, archives etc.

There is a smallish photo of that car in "British cars at le Mans" taken from 3/4 o/s front
Roger Lund

[sterling49]

John Quick's later modsports WOO 11 (that was rebuilt and owned recently by Christian Traber in Switzerlandand, although I don't know if he still has it now) and so on.

Of which you will find photos of in the "Personal Photos From The Paddock", taken by my mate at Brands in 1964, and 49 FXN.

http://forums.autosp...w...&start=3920

edited to add link.

Edited by sterling49, 14 September 2009 - 21:16.

[bradbury west]

Nurburgring 1000kms 1964. E type coupe reg no 2065 DF no 98 finished 25th driven by Paddy McNally and Warwick Banks.
http://wsrp.ic.cz/wsc1964.html#7
Shown in semi-overhead shot 3/4 front on page 169- in my copy- of Chris Harvey's book Jaguars in Competition. Photo is attributed to Temple Press.
Race is bona fide International event, car is 3.8 coupe. Described as virtually standard it ran well, leading the over 3000cc clas at one point as faster cars fell off, only being pipped late in the event by the Schlesser/Attwood Cobra previously slowed with electrical trouble
Hope it helps, but I suppose it depends on what spec/dimensions you want to run
Roger Lund

[Lola5000]

The Bob Jane FHC was very much a standard car as per production apart from the changes alone the lines of the tuning hand book that was around at the time.
I think Neil Allen also raced a early FHC and their was also the ex Bryson 4.2 FHC.
Ideal reference is the Briggs Cunningham FHC that he raced before his lightweights.

[Paul Parker]

bradbury west 21:08 Post #20

QUOTE (Paul Parker @ Sep 14 2009, 15:55)
Less easy to find is the Maurice Charles '62 Le Mans entry, a genuine FHC (860458) whilst the Cunningham car (860630) is another that is relatively accessible via period journals, archives etc.

There is a smallish photo of that car in "British cars at le Mans" taken from 3/4 o/s front
Roger Lund


I used a static shot in Jaguar at Le Mans on P119.

Meanwhile I had quite forgotten the McNally/Banks Ring adventure, well spotted.

[Ted Walker]

Unfortunatly none of the above photos show "stretched" rear wheel arches.Remember the important thing is racing at an INTERNATIONAL event not a "clubbie"

[simon drabble]

Ted this is a very valid point. It has to be in the International sanctioned race rather than a clubbie race at the same meeting.
I think one thing the Pre 63 GT race highlighted was how much appetite there is to revert back to proper period cars - E Types and Cobra's have become indecently quick and modified in recent times.... if this means that E Types have to run with narrower rear wheels I welcome it and hasten to add it increases my desire for one

[hamsterace]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for your respective inputs so far. The depth of historical knowledge on this forum is truly impressive! Period photographs showing widened arches on FHC cars would seem to be somewhat elusive at the moment. However, I will keep on looking….

I read the comments concerning the FIA’s stance on all of this with interest. I acknowledge that theirs is not an altogether easy job as they cannot possibly know everything about every car - and they certainly cannot please all of the people all of the time. However I truly believe they are missing the point here with FHC E Types (and I understand that we are far from the only case having trouble at the moment). Apparently it is acceptable to issue papers to numerous “Linder/ Knocker” Low Drag or Lightweight replicas -which have little or no historical basis in themselves aside from the concept- yet it is not to an original car which is entirely compliant with period specifications and which is constructed in the spirit of Appendix K and the (original) principles of historic racing. At the end of the day, do they want real cars, or replicas?

As alluded to by Red Socks, all that is sought by competitors is clarification and consistency - neither of which appear to be forthcoming at the moment.

[Red Socks]

Ted this is a very valid point. It has to be in the International sanctioned race rather than a clubbie race at the same meeting.
I think one thing the Pre 63 GT race highlighted was how much appetite there is to revert back to proper period cars - E Types and Cobra's have become indecently quick and modified in recent times.... if this means that E Types have to run with narrower rear wheels I welcome it and hasten to add it increases my desire for one

Simon you miss the point -only roadster E types can and will be allowed the wheels in question not coupes. Mark you if they all have to run 3.8 litres again that might change things.

[simon drabble]

Hamsterrace whilst I agree with your comments about the multitude of low drags dont forget that FIA are merely enforcing the Homologation applied by Jaguar in period. So it would be fair to assume that if you are prepping your car to period spec you will run it with the narrow rear.
I think a clamp down on the rules would be a welcome thing but that is a different subject and realistically Utopia

[Red Socks]

Hamsterrace whilst I agree with your comments about the multitude of low drags dont forget that FIA are merely enforcing the Homologation applied by Jaguar in period. So it would be fair to assume that if you are prepping your car to period spec you will run it with the narrow rear.
I think a clamp down on the rules would be a welcome thing but that is a different subject and realistically Utopia

Simon you are still missing the point, homologation 100 applies to both Coupe and Roadster, Simon Ham's, and others, problem is simply that it seems no one in period used the homologated possiblities on a coupe. Quite possibly because in period it was not a very competitive car.

[Kevan]

I think the John Mitchell - Jonspeed at Mirfield garage, Honley, Huddersfield, car was a hardtop version, but Robin Sturgess whose family garage were in Leicester, definitely ran a red coupe 2BBC, now re registered as something else. Perhaps their dealership still exists. There is a photo in one of the Jaguar books. The JDC will have full details

Roger Lund

edit
We have alaready covered John Quick in coupe WOO 11 on another thread

I knew Sturgess had a roadster (also carried the 2BBC plate), but didn't realise there was a Coupe as well. Yes, the dealership is still around in Leicester, and according to their website Robin Sturgess is still involved, albeit in 'semi-retirement'
http://www.sturgessg....uk/aboutus.php

[hamsterace]

Simon you are still missing the point, homologation 100 applies to both Coupe and Roadster, Simon Ham's, and others, problem is simply that it seems no one in period used the homologated possiblities on a coupe. Quite possibly because in period it was not a very competitive car.

Exactly. All we are seeking to do is run the homologated rim widths, but these do not appear to fit on a standard body as the tyre walls foul the rear wings. I can only assume that for the Cunningham '62 Le Mans car, they ran a different offset to overcome this. Additionally, I assume they were running on the Dunlop R5 tyre which was then current (as opposed to R6 pattern "L" Sections which we are running) was a much taller/ thinner tyre with less pronounced "bulging" side walls.

It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation really - the rims are legal, but you can't run them because the rear wings aren't....

[Lola5000]

Exactly. All we are seeking to do is run the homologated rim widths, but these do not appear to fit on a standard body as the tyre walls foul the rear wings. I can only assume that for the Cunningham '62 Le Mans car, they ran a different offset to overcome this. Additionally, I assume they were running on the Dunlop R5 tyre which was then current (as opposed to R6 pattern "L" Sections which we are running) was a much taller/ thinner tyre with less pronounced "bulging" side walls.

It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation really - the rims are legal, but you can't run them because the rear wings aren't....

what size rims?
7 or 7.5 in will fit on the rear.
secret is to trim down the rubber bush inside the inner guard.

[bradbury west]

Ever the optimist I checked back in Autosport for the 1,000kms from 1964. There is a good 3/4 front shot of the McNally/Banks car. Page 816 June 5 issue refers. Whilst it might be a trick of the light, or dirt swathes on the bodywork, but the arches do look to have been relieved a little. the wheel/tyre sizes also seem quite wide, especially at the rear, ceratinly filling the body more fully than those on the red E type coupe I saw locally today- very tippy toes in stance, almost under-tyred.
Racing in '64 it may be that the car carried mods and spec based on the lightweights. The race details on the website cite PaddyMcN as the entrant, but that probably means very little if it was a works supported car, as he always had access to useful equipment IIRC.
Perhaps Paddy McNally recalls something, or maybe there is a marque guru in one of the Jaguar clubs who knows about the car, perhaps Paul Skilleter. The car cannot be unknown. Someone will be bound to be claiming provenance.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 16 September 2009 - 19:42.

[Frank S]

OK, it's a "clubbie" in the first half of 1964, but it's Merle Brennan and Dick Guldstrand, both international competitors. Brennan likely had access to everything Jaguar could offer, technology-wise, and I've heard this car referred to as "a light-weight".

Del Mar, May or so 1964, photographer unknown (eBaY find).

[hamsterace]

Roger,

Many thanks for your continued input. We have an almost complete run of Autosports from c. 1960 – 90 at home, so I will search for the relevant edition. I know that my father was intending to speak to Paul Skilleter this week, so hopefully he may have learned something when I see him at the weekend.

Frank,

Thanks for this photo too – needless to say, input from the other side of the water is greatly appreciated as well. Although difficult to tell, the wheels look non-standard to me but the bodywork looks as if it is unchanged- and the fact that the car is still running bumpers and chrome headlight surrounds suggests that it is in fact in a fairly modest specification. Nevertheless – a great photograph. Just goes to show how much cars used to move around in those days!

[Gregor Marshall]

Simon - are you (or your Dad) still in the Beford area?
If so, you could pay a trip to Mike Moore near Dunstable, he has loads of info and built a few lightweight E-Type replicas - your Dad should know Mike/Mick.
Also, does your Dad still have his Lister?

[hamsterace]

Gregor,

Great to hear from you. I believe my father and I met Mike Moore (funnily enough, with your father) a few years ago, but long before we had started thinking of building a racing E Type. I live in London, but my parents are still based near Bedford and I go home most weekends, so I will certainly follow this lead up.

I am delighted to say that, yes, we do still have the Lister - it's one of the family! My parents purchased it in 1969 and are celebrating 40 years of ownership this year. Without wishing to harp on about the pace of development in historic racing, it is not as competitive as it once was, but it still gives us all a huge amount of enjoyment – which we consider to be paramount. We still bring it out a few times a year for special occasions – not necessarily “prestige events”, rather ones which are simply “different” – and we are taking it to New Zealand this winter for the Tasman Revival Series. I know my father and yours – together with John Harper, Steven Langton, Michael Bowler and several others - had many great battles together in the JCB and Lloyds & Scottish Championships. Great days.

As an aside, we have a photograph at home of my father deputising for yours in the Marsh Plant Lister on one occasion. I think it was just a test session at Silverstone, but I will check. I assume your father would have been off on Big/ Baby Bertha duty at the time, hence the temporary vacancy?

[Lola5000]

The car to use as a period example is the FHC orderd by Pierre Bardinon. #S890193.
which had alloy bonnet,suspension as per a LWT except it ran wire wheels.Also ran a ZF 5 speed gearbox.Alloy block with lucas injection.

[Lola5000]

refer to articles in Jaguar World march/april 1997 story by paul S
Automobiles classiques april/may 1994.
if you PM me i will scan and email to you.
The car ran alloy peg drive wheels 15 by 6 inch.

[Sharman]

Simon
1963 Targa Florio, the Jaguar race number 122 was definitely a Coupe driven by Baggio and Ravennta. I have no idea of how modified it was.
John Fielden

[geoffp13]

I knew Sturgess had a roadster (also carried the 2BBC plate), but didn't realise there was a Coupe as well. Yes, the dealership is still around in Leicester, and according to their website Robin Sturgess is still involved, albeit in 'semi-retirement'
http://www.sturgessg....uk/aboutus.php

As I understand it the roadster became 848 CRY and was used in the Italian Job film. I have photos of this car but non of the coupe.

[Kevan]

As I understand it the roadster became 848 CRY and was used in the Italian Job film. I have photos of this car but non of the coupe.

thanks Geoff- I'd forgotten about that, but yes, AFAIK the Sturgess roadster became 848CRY and was used in the film- apparently it was owned at that time by actor/model Tony Essame (he played one of the Mini drivers in the film,) and he sold it to the film company. It's now owned by Jag author Philip Porter

http://www.theitalia...rs_fastcars.htm
http://www.theitalia...hard_essome.htm

Edited by Kevan, 22 September 2009 - 10:39.

[bradbury west]

[quote name='Paul Parker' date='Sep 14 2009, 15:55' post='3860434']
Less easy to find is the Maurice Charles '62 Le Mans entry, a genuine FHC (860458) whilst the Cunningham car (860630) is another that is relatively accessible via period journals, archives etc. /quote]

I am pleased to report that 503 BBO, the Charles car, is alive and very well in a private collection, immaculately restored to "original specification", whatever that was. Bearing in mind that the Bardinon coupe was a special factory build, and that the McNally car may have been, it seems likely that the Charles car was of similar ilk, especially going by the nature of the fittings on the car, unless they are retro items. I will try and find out more.

Perhaps John Coundley, who co drove with Charles in 1962, can throw some light on the spec.

BTW, off at a tangent, although the photograph is not in an Interational event afaik, in the booklet accompanying the 1964 European GP at Brands Hatch there is a shot of a metallic blue coupe reg no B131 alongside Ken Baker's bronze/black hardtop 7 CXW. The blue reg no does not ring a bell. Any thoughts? The only 2 names which spring to mind are Peter Dodd and Rollo Fielding

Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 14 October 2009 - 11:07.

[hipperson]

This from Snetterton 1964.
Know nothing of the car but I do remember the object of my desire (unfulfilled) Miss Victoria Elliott from Sudbury



Photo from a slide so a bit 'thin' Sorry.

[Ray Bell]

That seems to be as good as it gets... for the sake of this thread...

But I can imagine that Miss Elliott is rather more wrinkled by now. Is the Jaguar also?

[bradbury west]

Unless the redoubtable Norman Dewis can throw any light on the problem of the Coupes.
Roger Lund

[piperp2]

The picture below is of Ronald Wrenn competing in his 1962 Jaguar 3.8 FHC at the Eberbach Mountain Race in April 1963, the event was organised by the Heidelberg Sports Touring Club. Ronald Wrenn was competing in the top 'over 2500cc class' and won the event outright.

Edited by piperp2, 19 October 2009 - 20:41.

[bradbury west]

As a matter of interest is it was fine to run ali bonnet with steel tub? I though they were trying to get people to run steel bonnets with steel tubs??

Thanks to the kindness of a/the Jaguar marque specialist author, I have received a copy of an interview with Maurice Charles about his E Type. He ran at le Mans with an aluminium bonnet, doors and tailgate like those used by Ken Baker on 7CXW throughout 1961, and made by KB's firm DR Fabrications, so there would seem to be a reasonable argument for a similar mix of steel hull with ali panels today, especially as precedent could be claimed pre-homolgation, and in what is often regarded as the most prestigious sports car race.
Roger Lund

[bradbury west]

The narrative for this Cunningham car
http://autocollectio...&...,year&sr=21
indicates it was works built in 1961 with ali panels etc and the full set of competition options and competed as such in period. The rear wheel arches are relieved so they can take D-type type wheels. Homologation/spec is stated earlier as being for opentop and coupe alike, so does this count as proof of period mod/spec, especially as it was a factory build and not a privateer's hotrod?
For the Charles car, see the next one on the website. BTW the collection is very impressive.
Roger Lund