69 replies to this topic

[Paul Rothwell]

Now Renault are not contesting the cheating allegations the race results should be made invalid...Hamilton will lose six points and Massa will be 2008 World Champion....

[Victor_RO]

No. The FIA have said that they CANNOT touch the results now that the 2008 season is over.

Edited by Victor_RO, 16 September 2009 - 17:54.

[Hypnotise]

Or why not just Disqualify Alonso and hand it to Nico Rosberg ? still Massa spun out later in the race and got penalty (not sure) so it should be irrelevant

[Brawn BGP 001]

No.

[pacwest]

Now Renault are not contesting the cheating allegations the race results should be made invalid...Hamilton will lose six points and Massa will be 2008 World Champion....

Know your regulations before posting.

[BRK]

Logically,next thing to do is to start a website about it.May I suggest www.hamiltonlosesmassawins2008yay.com?

[Paul Rothwell]

why should the results stand they are invalid .... the crash caused Ferrari to cock up Massas pit stop.... invalidate the race....also they managed to remove Schumacher from the results for the whole season after his cack handed attempt to take off Villeneuve....

[ensign14]

Or why not just Disqualify Alonso and hand it to Nico Rosberg ? still Massa spun out later in the race and got penalty (not sure) so it should be irrelevant

And then disqualify Rosberg because he also gained an unfair advantage from the safety car. And retrospectively exclude Massa from the following races because Ferrari released him in an unsafe manner.

[Victor_RO]

why should the results stand they are invalid .... the crash caused Ferrari to cock up Massas pit stop.... invalidate the race....also they managed to remove Schumacher from the results for the whole season after his cack handed attempt to take off Villeneuve....

They didn't remove him from the results like they did with Tyrrell in 1984. Get your facts together.

[RodrigoL]

still Massa spun out later in the race and got penalty (not sure) so it should be irrelevant

I'm not sure you understand the concept of causality.

[stevvy1986]

why should the results stand they are invalid .... the crash caused Ferrari to cock up Massas pit stop.... invalidate the race....also they managed to remove Schumacher from the results for the whole season after his cack handed attempt to take off Villeneuve....

The result can't be changed. The FIA have said that, therefore the result stands. The crash didn't cause Ferrari to cock up Massa's pitstop, their traffic light system caused them to cock up Massa's pitstop.

[ryan86]

It's a shame some fans cannot show the same dignity that Massa showed in finishing 2nd. To start concocting these ridiculous campaigns or whatever to get him installed as WDC is an insult to Massa.

[wrighty]

Now Renault are not contesting the cheating allegations the race results should be made invalid...Hamilton will lose six points and Massa will be 2008 World Champion....

you are the king of wishful thinking

[gm914]

Logically,next thing to do is to start a website about it.May I suggest www.hamiltonlosesmassawins2008yay.com?

Weirdest thing. That actually is a website.
Thing is, this is all that comes up...

Go figure?

[P123]

why should the results stand they are invalid .... the crash caused Ferrari to cock up Massas pit stop.... invalidate the race....also they managed to remove Schumacher from the results for the whole season after his cack handed attempt to take off Villeneuve....

No, a procedural error by a Ferrari pitlane member caused Massa to lose any chance at points. Can you say that the points as they were after Singapore didn't affect the way in which Hamilton approached the following races?

Schumacher may have been removed from the championship standings in 1997 but all results stood. In the records he kept his wins and kept his points. Nobody moved up to 'win' races in his place.

[BMW_F1]

It's a shame some fans cannot show the same dignity that Massa showed in finishing 2nd. To start concocting these ridiculous campaigns or whatever to get him installed as WDC is an insult to Massa.

What do you think massa would have felt/said right after Brasil if he found out that Piquet's carsh bringing the safety was all a race fix strategy to give alonso the win and not an actual racing accident.

[P123]

What do you think massa would have felt/said right after Brasil if he found out that Piquet's carsh bringing the safety was all a race fix strategy to give alonso the win and not an actual racing accident.

He's not the first guy to be screwed by a saftey car. No, hold that thought, he wasn't! He was screwed by an error in his teams pitstop lighting procedure. If I recall correctly Kimi also suffered a similar problem in Valencia.

[Fausta]

It is time to move on from this affair

[MegaManson]

Threads like this do this board no service, pure and utter garbage and I am a self confessed Hamilton hater and Massa liker

[raiseyourfistfor]

Then Massa should get a 25s penalty in Valencia from his pit run in so Lewis gets his points back

[Hole]

Now Renault are not contesting the cheating allegations the race results should be made invalid...Hamilton will lose six points and Massa will be 2008 World Champion....

Why not giving one position more to everybody? It would be more logical rather than invalidate the entire race. Those who finished the race and got points have not blame for what happened so why they should be punished too?

[mountford]

It's a shame some fans cannot show the same dignity that Massa showed in finishing 2nd. To start concocting these ridiculous campaigns or whatever to get him installed as WDC is an insult to Massa.

[BMW_F1]

He's not the first guy to be screwed by a saftey car. No, hold that thought, he wasn't! He was screwed by an error in his teams pitstop lighting procedure. If I recall correctly Kimi also suffered a similar problem in Valencia.

Dude there is a difference between an accident and a race that has been fixed and the end result fabricated in a plan on a meeting table. This is no competition and should be nullified.

[ryan86]

What do you think massa would have felt/said right after Brasil if he found out that Piquet's carsh bringing the safety was all a race fix strategy to give alonso the win and not an actual racing accident.

He might say that such people have no place in F1, but I don't think he'd start claiming that Hamilton should be dethroned and that he, himself should be proclaimed as king.

[RodrigoL]

He's not the first guy to be screwed by a saftey car. No, hold that thought, he wasn't! He was screwed by an error in his teams pitstop lighting procedure.

The light procedure was operated manually by the chief mechanic, to make sure Massa didn't get released in front of traffic. This would not have happened in a normal pit stop situation.

Edited by RodrigoL, 16 September 2009 - 18:36.

[Showty]

FIA already said the results for the race are untouchable, they could only change them until late november´08.

[teewoods]

Now Renault are not contesting the cheating allegations the race results should be made invalid...Hamilton will lose six points and Massa will be 2008 World Champion....

Let me get this right - say for instance an athlete who wins the 100m, final at the Olympics is found to have cheated by taking drugs. Do you cancel the whole 100m race and declare it invalid or strip the winner of the 100m gold and hand the gold to second place winner.


I know your answer - cancel the whole 100m and declare it invalid

[as65p]

Man, those wet dream scenarios are hilarious...

It's the past, nobody can change the past.

Besides, the possible implications if Piquet hadn't crashed when and where he did are legion.

He could have continued to trundle around at the back and then crashed into Massa while being lapped, for example...

[Hole]

Let me get this right - say for instance an athlete who wins the 100m, final at the Olympics is found to have cheated by taking drugs. Do you cancel the whole 100m race and declare it invalid or strip the winner of the 100m gold and hand the gold to second place winner.


I know your answer - cancel the whole 100m and declare it invalid

Yes, and let's **** all those who finished 2nd and 3rd who did nothing wrong.

[stonebutter]

how in the world did the safety car cause ferrari to release massa early and screw up the refeuling rig? idiots...

[D.M.N.]

Even Max himself has said they CAN'T change the results: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/78489

Q. But it is not too late after 12 months to discover something that people suspected at the time?

MM: It is like, in the real world, fraud goes on forever. If you cheat the tax man normally, if you don't declare your money, it is three or six years – there is a limitation. But if you are fraudulent, it goes on forever. What we cannot do is we cannot interfere with the results of the championship, or indeed of that race, because of Article 179B of the International Sporting Code. On the 30th November the championship is finished, whatever. But of course if someone has done something they should not do, they can still get a penalty. So it is open.

[P123]

Dude there is a difference between an accident and a race that has been fixed and the end result fabricated in a plan on a meeting table. This is no competition and should be nullified.

Dude, there was still 3/4s of the race to run after the accident.

[Craven Morehead]

That is the most annoyingly misleading thread title. I hope one of the Mods can change it.


Something like, "wishful thinking one year too late" would be good.

[P123]

The light procedure was operated manually by the chief mechanic, to make sure Massa didn't get released in front of traffic. This would not have happened in a normal pit stop situation.

What do you define as a normal pitlane siuation? Cars get wrongly released all the time. See Webber at Spa.

You suggest that Massa, who lost his points due to an error by his team, should somehow be installed as WDC? You mentioned causality earlier. Do you fully comprehend it? Can you confirm that Massa's positioning in the race in Singapore had no affect on Hamilton's approach to the rest of the race and the points situation post Singapore had no affect towards how Hamilton then approached the remaining races? Have you even considered as far ahead as this?

You believe that a driver (Hamilton) should lose his championship because of the cheating of one team and the **** up of another? The fact that this driver went to the final round of the championship believing he only had to score x number of points to be crowned champion is immaterial?

[RodrigoL]

What do you define as a normal pitlane siuation? Cars get wrongly released all the time. See Webber at Spa.

You suggest that Massa, who lost his points due to an error by his team, should somehow be installed as WDC? You mentioned causality earlier. Do you fully comprehend it? Can you confirm that Massa's positioning in the race in Singapore had no affect on Hamilton's approach to the rest of the race and the points situation post Singapore had no affect towards how Hamilton then approached the remaining races? Have you even considered as far ahead as this?

You believe that a driver (Hamilton) should lose his championship because of the cheating of one team and the **** up of another? The fact that this driver went to the final round of the championship believing he only had to score x number of points to be crowned champion is immaterial?

No I don't think Massa should be given the championship, that's just silly. But it's incredibly closed minded to say this incident had no impact on the race.

[Slick]

That is the most annoyingly misleading thread title. I hope one of the Mods can change it.


Something like, "wishful thinking one year too late" would be good.

I agree, I've added a ?

[teewoods]

Now Renault are not contesting the cheating allegations the race results should be made invalid...Hamilton will lose six points and Massa will be 2008 World Champion....

One more thing

Brazil 07 - BMW illegal car/fuel - never mind canceling the race , just remove the bmw points = Lewis WDC.

[HSJ]

No. The FIA have said that they CANNOT touch the results now that the 2008 season is over.

That's a cop out though. In most sports they can take away your results many years after they've been achieved if you are caught cheating. And that's the way it should be. It should be made clear that cheating will never pay off if you are caught, no matter how much time has passed.

[Fatality]

The sc just made up for his bad luck in qualifying where he had genuine front running pace so the win was ultimately deserved, and will remain anyway. 21 wins and counting.

[Victor_RO]

That's a cop out though. In most sports they can take away your results many years after they've been achieved if you are caught cheating. And that's the way it should be. It should be made clear that cheating will never pay off if you are caught, no matter how much time has passed.

Thing is, F1 is so publicised, that any attempt at retroactive DQs viewed as "rewriting history" would be met with shock horror by 150% of the world's media and 250% of F1 fanboys. And the last thing needed is yet more bad press.

[BMW_F1]

Dude, there was still 3/4s of the race to run after the accident.

so what ? the results after that did not run its due course..they were tampered..

[Cenotaph]

If Alonso had been champion because of this it would worth some discussion, but Hamilton wasnt at fault here. The results are final, i think it's inevitable that Renault will be expelled. Briatore and Symonds leaving is an indication of that, imo. It's more than enough punishment.

Edited by Cenotaph, 16 September 2009 - 19:34.

[flyboy]

Logically,next thing to do is to start a website about it.May I suggest www.hamiltonlosesmassawins2008yay.com?

[Henrik B]

Now Renault are not contesting the cheating allegations the race results should be made invalid...Hamilton will lose six points and Massa will be 2008 World Champion....

Wasn't the answer you got in the mammoth thread good enough? Perhaps if you post the same sentences a fourth time someone will agree with you?

[bogi]

User registered in 2007, lurking till 2009 to post. I wonder wich clone is he

[tommi34]

I think the win will taken off, but the championship results obviously stay. Perhaps they disqualifie Renault or something but the order of the others stay.

[JPW]

I really don't get this fascination about who really won or should win the 2008 Singapore GP

Who cares, it's water under the bridge and 99,9995% of the F1 audience doesn't give a f#ck.

Lets give the win to Nelsinho as a whistleblower

[Birelman]

Not gonna happen, but just to give Lewis a kick in the nuts I say go for it!

[Craven Morehead]

I agree, I've added a ?

thank you

[Kenaltgr]

It will not be invalid as the winner wasn't involved. Otherwise the FIA could go back and review results which would give Shcumacher less than 20 valid wins for his career.