20 replies to this topic

[bill p]

To quote the 2009 Goodwood Revival programme

"Ferrari 250GTO - Stirling practised in this car at Easter Goodwood 1962 before his F1 crash"

I cannot recall seeing a photograph of this occasion on that fateful day - can anyone help?

Thank you

[Alan Cox]

The UDT-Laystall car had made its debut earlier in the month, at the Le Mans test weekend when it was driven by Willy Mairesse, and was entered at Goodwood for either Moss or Ireland. Autosport's report records that, because of Moss's accident the car non-started. I would infer from that that he would have practiced it, as Ireland had opted to drive the team's Lotus 19.
As bill p says, can anyone confirm this?

[David McKinney]

I think it's pretty clear from Autosport's report: The UDT Ferrari GTO was a non-starter, due to Moss's shunt... Surely if he hadn't practised the report wouldn't have given the reason for the non-starting that it did?

[bill p]

I think it's pretty clear from Autosport's report: The UDT Ferrari GTO was a non-starter, due to Moss's shunt... Surely if he hadn't practised the report wouldn't have given the reason for the non-starting that it did?

My query still stands - is there photographic evidence or an official practice time for Stirling in the GTO?

[Doug Nye]

That is one the Holy Grail racing photos - practice was on the Saturday preceding Easter Monday. Easter Sunday was sacrosanct - no circuit activity that day. Photographers did NOT commonly attend Saturday practice. Remember that in those days there were not many of them, and each wanted race meeting attendance to be cost effective. That day out in between was MOST unattractive.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 26 September 2009 - 16:04.

[Jean L]

Incidently,in "The Colonel's Ferraris" a DCN book,
"Colonel Hoare and Innes Ireland collected both cars (GTO 3505 & 3589) from the factory and from all accounts the drive to the Channel ferry must have been one of the greatest road races of all time... .The cars arrived intact at Hurn airport on good friday,April 20,and were serviced and ready to race at Goodwood the following Monday."

[Jack-the-Lad]

No, Jack, the caption is correct. Ireland did, of course, win the TT on the 18th August in the car. The meeting we are talking about here is the Easter Monday meeting on the 23rd April.

Oh, dear. My apologies. I'll go back and delete my post.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Jack.

[RCH]

According to Martin Kresci's excellent website www.wsrp.ic.cz Innes Ireland drove the Lotus 19 in place of Moss although he was originally entered to drive the GTO. Presumably they had both practised both cars.

Edited by RCH, 27 September 2009 - 14:57.

[jph]

According to Martin Kresci's excellent website www.wsrp.ic.cz Innes Ireland drove the Lotus 19 in place of Moss although he was originally entered to drive the GTO. Presumably they had both practised both cars.

Tony Gardiner's book 'Motor Racing at Goodwood in the Sixties' has a picture of the UDT/Laystall GTO in the queue for scrutineering at the Easter 1962 meeting; also a picture of Moss driving the Lotus 19 in very wet conditions during practice.

Edited by jph, 28 September 2009 - 12:39.

[Tuboscocca]

Tony Gardiner's book 'Motor Racing at Goodwood in the Sixties' has a picture of the UDT/Laystall GTO in the queue for scrutineering at the Easter 1962 meeting; also a picture of Moss driving the Lotus 19 in very wet conditions during practice.

Same book , two pages later (p27), the aforementioned GTO (Race#51) in full flight through heavy rain (Saturday practice??).
Driver unknown, either Innes or Stirling.

Regards Michael

[bill p]

Same book , two pages later (p27), the aforementioned GTO (Race#51) in full flight through heavy rain (Saturday practice??).
Driver unknown, either Innes or Stirling.

Regards Michael

Thank you for your reply posts, everyone

[Tuboscocca]

Thank you for your reply posts, everyone

Hello Bill,

in the McDonough Innes Ireland biography, Innes tells us that Stirling was to race the Lotus 19 and Innes the new 250 GTO in the combined GT/Sportscar race.

So why should Stirling bother to practice a car which he would not drive on Eastermonday?? That Innes took over the Lotus was a late decision.

It's just a thought-maybe Stirling still remembers this practice session??

Best regards Michael

[RCH]

I think he would have done, that's the sort of driver he was. Don't forget he had been responsible for some of the testing of the GTO so I would think the chance to give it a tryout would have been irresistable. He would also have been interested to know how close the GTO could have got the Lotus in the race (Mike Parkes finished second to Innes in the race in the Maranello Concessionaires car). He may even have been considering suggesting a swap, he did have a bit of a reputation for that sort of thing!

[jph]

Hello Bill,

in the McDonough Innes Ireland biography, Innes tells us that Stirling was to race the Lotus 19 and Innes the new 250 GTO in the combined GT/Sportscar race.

So why should Stirling bother to practice a car which he would not drive on Eastermonday?? That Innes took over the Lotus was a late decision.

It's just a thought-maybe Stirling still remembers this practice session??

Best regards Michael

Maybe this doesn't get any closer to answering your question, but the introduction to the 1962 season chapter in Stirling Moss's new book 'All My Races' implies he might not actually have driven the 250GTO at Goodwood:

"The GTO was delivered to Goodwood direct from Maranello Concessionaires ... for me to race there on Easter Monday. As the day's events turned out, I never had the chance to try it ... ". No mention of having driven it in the practice session, though I'm sure RCH's comment about him wanting to try both cars must be right.

The Bluemel/Pourret 250GTO book says that Ireland was to have driven the 250GTO but switched to the Lotus 19, as does the Innes Ireland biography. Robert Barker's 'Motor Racing at Goodwood - An Illustrated History', however, has it that "... Moss should have raced the new Ferrari 250GTO ...".

[Bruno]

1/4/1961 Prova a Monza (essais)
Sterling Moss/Willy Mairesse 250 GT Berlinetta (proto 250 GTO) "2053GT"

http://i493.photobuc...ion-2053pro.jpg

(la legende Ferrari 250 GT Competition "Jess G Pourret")
http://s222.photobuc...Competition.jpg

[RA Historian]

1/4/1961 Prova a Monza (essais)
Sterling Moss/Willy Mairesse 250 GT Berlinetta (proto 250 GTO) "2053GT"

Stirling, if you please.
Tom

[clive beecham]

To quote the 2009 Goodwood Revival programme

"Ferrari 250GTO - Stirling practised in this car at Easter Goodwood 1962 before his F1 crash"

I cannot recall seeing a photograph of this occasion on that fateful day - can anyone help?

Thank you

I think I can absolutely confirm that Stirling did indeed practice in the UDT GTO #3505 on Saturday 21st May. I have a copy of his diary entry for the Saturday, where he describes the car as: Ferrari fab. D9's. He records his practice times as 1.37.2 on D9s compared to Innes Ireland at 1.39.4 on D9s in the same car. Parkes is recorded as 1.36.8 on D12s. The conditions were dreadful and worsened during the day so not too much should be read into comparative lap times.

There are no furter entries following this one, until the 29th May, when Stirling fills in the 'lost' page for Monday 23rd April with a summary of what injuries he had and his observations.

Finding a definitive photo of Stirling practising is an altogether different matter, (as Doug Nye says) but it is no longer in question that Stirling did practice.

Clive Beecham

[Alan Cox]

Thank you for that confirmation, Clive. Most interesting to hear of the diary entry.

[bill p]

Finding a definitive photo of Stirling practising is an altogether different matter, (as Doug Nye says) but it is no longer in question that Stirling did practice.

Clive Beecham

Thank you, Clive - the quest for the Holy Grail shall continue!!

Bill P

[Doug Nye]

Clive beat me to it.

This just received from SM in response to my question, and quoting from his contemporary diary:

ON THE 21st, I WROTE "WET ALL DAY. FERRARI FAB, D9s" (I THINK THESE WERE THE LATEST DUNLOP'S FOR WET WEATHER). LOTUS FEELS FAIR, AND 19 GOOD.GET 8,200 ON F1."

THEN AT THE BOTTOM I WROTE "F1 SM 1.34.4, HILL 1.36.0, SPORTS SM LOTUS 1,34,2, INNES 1.35.0 BOTH LOTUS.

GT PARKES ON D12, 1.36.8, SM 1.37.2 AND INNES I.39.4, SM 1.37.2 (BOTH ON D9s)"

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 24 October 2009 - 20:45.

[Tuboscocca]

Just received a copy of 'MOSS 80/80' (nice book on Moss' cars).

There in the chapter on the 250 GTO ( page 173) the author Russell confirms that Stirling Moss practised the car (3505) for the Easter meeting.
Nothing really new anymore , but a further confirmation.

Regards Michael