29 replies to this topic

[raiseyourfistfor]

During FP on friday i heard them say on bbc that Ferrari won't be running with Marlboro sponsorship next year. Any truth to it?

[P123]

During FP on friday i heard them say on bbc that Ferrari won't be running with Marlboro sponsorship next year. Any truth to it?

They will have Santander as title sponsorship- was announced at Monza. I think Marlboro's sponsorship contract was to end of this year.

[engel]

i believe the Ferrari/Marlboro deal runs through to 2011 and I don't see why Ferrari would kill the contract, they pay multiples of what their second best sponsor pays.

EDIT:

They will have Santander as title sponsorship- was announced at Monza. I think Marlboro's sponsorship contract was to end of this year.

Nope. Santander is not the "title" sponsor. That's why they get space on the sidepods not on the Engine cover.

Malboro owns large chunks of the car (Engine Cover, space infront of cockpit and forward facing rear wing element) Ferrari sells the rest of the car to it's various other sponsors (Etihad being the biggest current, Alice etc) ... Santander deal is rumored to be worth around $40m/year which is peanuts compared to what Ferrari makes from Malrboro.

Edited by engel, 26 September 2009 - 22:49.

[raiseyourfistfor]

They will have Santander as title sponsorship- was announced at Monza. I think Marlboro's sponsorship contract was to end of this year.

So they team will be called "Scuderia Ferrari Santander" ?

[Rob29]

Never understood how they are still sponsors when tobacco advertising has been banned for some years? Will be good to return to an all red Ferrari

Edited by Rob29, 27 September 2009 - 07:14.

[pgj]

I thought that losing Marlboro was due to a ban on cigarette sponsorship.

[Lennat]

I don't think they are running cigarette sponsorship, just getting paid by a Marlboro to run some bar codes that technically doesn't mean anything?

[pgj]

I don't think they are running cigarette sponsorship, just getting paid by a Marlboro to run some bar codes that technically doesn't mean anything?

Sponsorship is not just about running around with with advertisements on cars! Although everyone knows what the mock barcode means. I thought that there was a ban on accepting sponsorship monies from cigarette companies.

[peroa]

I thought that there was a ban on accepting sponsorship monies from cigarette companies.

Apparently there isn't and the news always was that PM would end the sponsorship at the end of 2011, after the current contract runs out.

[Dino Scuderia]

I thought that there was a ban on accepting sponsorship monies from cigarette companies.

Can't do that as its against EU laws

Edited by Dino Scuderia, 27 September 2009 - 08:34.

[Lennat]

Sponsorship is not just about running around with with advertisements on cars! Although everyone knows what the mock barcode means. I thought that there was a ban on accepting sponsorship monies from cigarette companies.

Oh, I see.

But still, it would be a bit complicated to ban money from tobacco companies as the parent company in this case (Altria Group) owns a ton of other stuff, like various food brands etcetera.

Might be a bit hard to draw a clear line between Marlboro and it's parent company? They own Kraft Foods for example so why not let a candy brand pay Ferrari to run bar codes or something?

I'm sure that several brands on different cars are somehow owned by tobacco companies, so I don't see how they could ban sponsorship from them completley that way.

[pgj]

I have just checked it up and there was a closing of the loophole that allowed Marlboro to invent the fake barcode and associate it with the Marlboro brand. It is no longer legal for that to be shown on European tv. That is the reason that the sponsorship deal is being allowed to expire. I was pretty sure that it was connected with the ban on sponsorship although my original assertion was wrong.

[Lennat]

I have just checked it up and there was a closing of the loophole that allowed Marlboro to invent the fake barcode and associate it with the Marlboro brand. It is no longer legal for that to be shown on European tv. That is the reason that the sponsorship deal is being allowed to expire. I was pretty sure that it was connected with the ban on sponsorship although my original assertion was wrong.

That makes more sense.

[Massa_f1]

i believe the Ferrari/Marlboro deal runs through to 2011 and I don't see why Ferrari would kill the contract, they pay multiples of what their second best sponsor pays.

EDIT:

Nope. Santander is not the "title" sponsor. That's why they get space on the sidepods not on the Engine cover.

Malboro owns large chunks of the car (Engine Cover, space infront of cockpit and forward facing rear wing element) Ferrari sells the rest of the car to it's various other sponsors (Etihad being the biggest current, Alice etc) ... Santander deal is rumored to be worth around $40m/year which is peanuts compared to what Ferrari makes from Malrboro.

Santander is the title sponsor for Ferrari next year.

[Italiano Tifoso]

Phillip Morris have naming rights with Ferrari. Irrespective of who the "title" sponsor is the team is always called Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro.

Can't recall how long the Marlboro deal is for, but the naming rights is a way for Phillip Morris to circumvent the ban on tobacco sponsorship in F1.

[ensign14]

They could always rename it "Marlborough" in honour of the Battle of Blenheim.

I always wondered why they didn't just run plain red with a health warning. Surely that would have placated everyone?

[BRK]

If they had a Polish or Austrian driver,on the other hand...

[pgj]

Oh, I see.

But still, it would be a bit complicated to ban money from tobacco companies as the parent company in this case (Altria Group) owns a ton of other stuff, like various food brands etcetera.

Might be a bit hard to draw a clear line between Marlboro and it's parent company? They own Kraft Foods for example so why not let a candy brand pay Ferrari to run bar codes or something?

I'm sure that several brands on different cars are somehow owned by tobacco companies, so I don't see how they could ban sponsorship from them completley that way.

Yes, you are right. I was wrong about differentiating income.

[jey16]

Phillip Morris have naming rights with Ferrari. Irrespective of who the "title" sponsor is the team is always called Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro.

Can't recall how long the Marlboro deal is for, but the naming rights is a way for Phillip Morris to circumvent the ban on tobacco sponsorship in F1.

yes, it appears that way....there may be large Santander logo's on the car next year (even more then the barcode?) but Marlboro will retain title sponsorship i believe, atleast until the end of 2011

maybe it will be like Williams? AT&T are the title sponsor but you dont see their logo much on the car....always thought that was a bit weird

[lustigson]

Let me try to take away some misconceptions here:

Title sponsorship has nothing to do with where a sponsor's name appears on the car. A title sponsor contract simply states that a team name contains the sponsor's name. E.g. Vodafone is on McLaren's sidepod, while the official entry is 'Vodafone McLaren Mercedes', and Panasonic is on the sidepod of Toyota, while the team's name is 'Panasonic Toyota Racing'.

Ferrari have a deal with Philip Morris which allegedly runs up to and including the 2011 season. The team sells all the space on the car to the company, which then takes a portion for itself, while selling on other space to sponsors/partners like Shell, Etihad, et cetera.

When announcing the Ferrari deal at Monza, Santander stated that said "it will be Ferrari's 'main' sponsor from next season", which is something different than title sponsorship. It could very well be that Philip Morris decided it could do without the barcode on the Ferrari engine covers, and allow Santander to occupy that space, while retaining the rear wing (or the other way around) as well as the naming rights: 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro'.

Edit:
I understood that Philip Morris profits from the Ferrari association, not by having its name on the cars, but having Ferrari's cars on the fag packets.

Edited by lustigson, 27 September 2009 - 15:57.

[KWSN - DSM]

Is the contract not with Altria and not with Philip Morris?

[engel]

Let me try to take away some misconceptions here:

Title sponsorship has nothing to do with where a sponsor's name appears on the car. A title sponsor contract simply states that a team name contains the sponsor's name. E.g. Vodafone is on McLaren's sidepod, while the official entry is 'Vodafone McLaren Mercedes', and Panasonic is on the sidepod of Toyota, while the team's name is 'Panasonic Toyota Racing'.

Ferrari have a deal with Philip Morris which allegedly runs up to and including the 2011 season. The team sells all the space on the car to the company, which then takes a portion for itself, while selling on other space to sponsors/partners like Shell, Etihad, et cetera.

When announcing the Ferrari deal at Monza, Santander stated that said "it will be Ferrari's 'main' sponsor from next season", which is something different than title sponsorship. It could very well be that Philip Morris decided it could do without the barcode on the Ferrari engine covers, and allow Santander to occupy that space, while retaining the rear wing (or the other way around) as well as the naming rights: 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro'.

Edit:
I understood that Philip Morris profits from the Ferrari association, not by having its name on the cars, but having Ferrari's cars on the fag packets.

Quite wrong on all counts.

Marlboro owns specific areas of the car which it "can" but has not as yet resold to anybody. Those areas are the forward facing rear wing elements, the engine cover and the area infront of the cockpit.

Shell is both a sponsor and a technical partner and gets more visibility on the sidepods

The other Ferrari sponsors are Etihad, Amd, Alice, Mubadala and Acer (ie these people give varying amounts of money to the team). The rest are technical partners ie people that get trades, free services/components in exchange for space on the car.

Santander is (probably) the bigger of the non Marlboro sponsors. They have a spot above the sidepods
http://www.ferrari.c..._Santander.aspx
here's a bigger version of the santander presence on the Ferrari car http://premium.f1-li...a/diapo_073.jpg

Santander is reportedly paying Ferrari around $40m/year. Marlboro pays around $280m/year. That should give you a indication of how big the Marlboro deal is.

[Red 5]

It will be a sad day for F1 and motorsport in general when Marlboro have to finally leave.
Whether you approve of tobacco sponsorship or not there is no denying the impact the brand has had. For 35+ years they have spent vast amounts which have enabled teams to compete at a higher level, which brings success, which in turn attracts other big sponsors and so it continues.
With the current climate the financial sector finds itself in it can no longer be relied upon to find the big money, Santander is an exception but their deal with Ferrari is nowhere near the size of Marlboro's. ING had to pull out because the Dutch government bailed them out and the cost couldn't be justified, RBS is having to scale down all of its sponsorship deals for the same reason, perhaps Williams will suffer.
I would hazard a guess and say if you looked back to the early 70's when Marlboro first came into GP right up to present, all the successful teams have been tied to a tobacco manufacturer. They brought cash, lots of it, and helped create the cash cow that made Bernie and his pals extremely wealthy.
Unless the soft drinks companies want to battle it out I dont think the teams will see the volume of sponsorship money they have done previously for quite a long time.
Coca Cola vs Pepsi vs Tango vs 7up, the liveries would be great!

[shonguiz]

Marlboro pays around $280m/year. That should give you a indication of how big the Marlboro deal is.

Where did you read that ? The higest figure i come across is 80 m/year.

[wewantourdarbyback]

perhaps Williams will suffer.

Already announced that RBS will not be a sponsor from 2010 but Phillips stepped up their sponsorship this season.

[dgduris]

Never understood how they are still sponsors when tobacco advertising has been banned for some years? Will be good to return to an all red Ferrari

So the bar code is gone..and the colour stays. Banco Santander! Fernando Alonso! Felipe Massa! Hmmm! Lot's o latin there. Hope it all works out.

[Alexis*27]

What's the deal with advertising 'Philip Morris International' instead of a specific tobacco brand?

[stevewf1]

What's the definition of "sponsorship"?

So if a tobacco company wants to throw money at Ferrari - without any advertising benefits - what's wrong with that? It's their money.

[ff1600]

I read someplace that Marlboro are the ones who pay the drivers ie; Kimi 49 mil US.

[lustigson]

Is the contract not with Altria and not with Philip Morris?

Either with Altria, Philip Morris USA, or Philip Morris International.