14 replies to this topic

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

I don't recall ever seeing showing up at any vintage events. Also, any good photos of it?

I would agrue that fact that it was the most unique racing car ever built. It brought the turbine and 4-wheel drive to Indy. It raced only one race. It had no prototypes or later versions to compare to it (they carat Indy practice in 1968 was the same car). And it engineering was WAY beyond anything that was being raced by any other motor sport in 1967.

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 27 September 2009 - 03:39.

[Vicuna]

I don't recall ever seeing showing up at any vintage events. Also, any good photos of it?

Indy Museum

[Pat Clarke]

I don't recall ever seeing showing up at any vintage events. Also, any good photos of it?

I saw it in the Indy museum two years ago. The docents permitted me to get close enough to take a number of pictures.
If I knew how to post 'em I would =] PM or email me

Pat

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

Pat,

If you can't find a way to post them here (I'm sure others would enjoy them, too), my email address is Ebay917K@aol.co.

Is it on loan from Andy, or does the Speedway now own it?

[Pat Clarke]

Pat,

If you can't find a way to post them here (I'm sure others would enjoy them, too), my email address is Ebay917K@aol.co.

Is it on loan from Andy, or does the Speedway now own it?

I will do that..... when I find them Too many memory sticks and portable hard drives. If I cant find them today, it will be a week or so as I am away from home on business.

Pat

[Paul Rochdale]

http://forums.autosp...w...t=0&start=0

Car number 40.

[Alan Cox]

I would argue that fact that it was the most unique racing car ever built. It brought the turbine and 4-wheel drive to Indy.

In the immortal words of Roger Clark, "Are you sure?" You appear to be overlooking Harry Miller's contribution to the history of 4WD at Indy (e.g. 1932 Miller FWD Special, which actually led the 1934 500 and finished 9th). And, although the STP-Paxton turbocar was the first to start in the '500', there were turbine-powered entries before its debut in 1967 - Dan Gurney failed to qualify John Zink's Trackburner Special in 1962, and Norm Demler's 1965 entry of a turbine roadster was decreed to be unsafe by the stewards and didn't feature in qualifying but, in 1966, Jack Adams entered an Epperly chassis with General Electric turbine but, again, failed to qualify.

[mac miller]

I don't recall ever seeing showing up at any vintage events. Also, any good photos of it?

The car was originally donated to the Smithsonian by the STP Corp. It has been on loan to the IMS museum for over 25 years and it is periodically displayed on the main floor.
The reason it doesn't travel is that any Smithsonian property on traveling display must be accompanied by several government security agents, which is not economical.
A year or so ago, I heard that the Smithsonian was going to take the car back, but as of a couple of months ago that had not happened.

[mwphoto]

The car was originally donated to the Smithsonian by the STP Corp. It has been on loan to the IMS museum for over 25 years and it is periodically displayed on the main floor.

I was at the Museum back on the 3rd of September and I did not see it on the main floor. If might have been there and I just missed it and if that is the case, that would be my reason to make a return trip. Great time on my first trip to Indy.

[TrackDog]

In the immortal words of Roger Clark, "Are you sure?" You appear to be overlooking Harry Miller's contribution to the history of 4WD at Indy (e.g. 1932 Miller FWD Special, which actually led the 1934 500 and finished 9th). And, although the STP-Paxton turbocar was the first to start in the '500', there were turbine-powered entries before its debut in 1967 - Dan Gurney failed to qualify John Zink's Trackburner Special in 1962, and Norm Demler's 1965 entry of a turbine roadster was decreed to be unsafe by the stewards and didn't feature in qualifying but, in 1966, Jack Adams entered an Epperly chassis with General Electric turbine but, again, failed to qualify.

The Jack Adams Aircraft turbine car and the Norm Demler turbine were the same car; the year was 1966. Adams was the sponsor. The car was supposedly capable of 260 mph on the straights, but nothing close to this was ever posted. The car left huge tiremarks down the straights and the driver had to back off the throttle early and really hit the brakes hard to get the car through the corners. It was also unbearably hot in the cockpit after just a few laps. The car was little more than a land-locked jet. Bill Cheesbourgh was the driver.



Dan

[Cam2InfoNeeded]

I'm still pulling for "Silent Sam", since it did qualify, it did race, and except for a minor part breaking, was competitive enough to have easily won the race.

Here is a story for anyone who might want to read on. I grew up outside Indianapolis in a small rural farming town. We always plan our day around the radio and listened to the race without fail. My dad didn't want to fight the crowds on race day, but he did take me to many practice and qualifying days (I'm 55 now).

He worked for a company called Indiana Gear Works. They made transmissions and parts for Sikorsky helicopters and some missiles. He worked in the shipping and receiving department. In 1967, the Granatelli's contacted the company and had them do some new parts for some failing parts on "Silent Sam" (transmission I think). My dad came home one day with a box full of STP products, but more importantly to me, tons of decals and stickers! I remember plastering those things all over everything I could find. I was especially interested in the turbine car, because it was like out of another century as far as racing cars were back then.

My dad's brother and his wife were big race fans (he worked for Phillips 66 at that time and spent the month at Indy every year until he died), especially A. J. Foyt. That year he and his wife got the biggest kick out of pumping up AJ, and really knocking the turbine car. I got in to some heated discussions with him over it for several years (I was serious, but I'm not sure how much they were, but they did love to push my button on the subject).

BTW, the bearing that failed was NOT one of their manufactured parts.

Edited by Cam2InfoNeeded, 28 September 2009 - 01:49.

[ZOOOM]

I was there when the "Whooshmobile "ran at Indy.

While it certainly was a great engineering masterpiece, it was not the first turbine or four wheel drive dar to run at Indy.
The Four Wheel Drive corporation ran a car at Indy in the thirties.
A Kurtis upright sprintcar ran at the track in the 50's with a Boeing turbine in it but it never attempted to qualify.
Sir Stirling Moss pleaded with Granatelli to employ the Fergeson four wheel drive system at Indy after he drove the Fergeson F1 car in Europe.
The Granatelli Novi's were built around the Fergesson system in the 60's, but the car was very heavy and never completed the race.

With the information from the Novi's use of Four wheel drive, and the knowledge of the Pratt & Whitney helicopter engine availability, Granatelli finally put it all together in "Silent Sam". The chassis was designed by Ken Wallis using the backbone system and hanging the engine on the inside of the frame and the driver on the outside of the frame. It was all powered through the use of the Fergeson four wheel drive from the FWD Novi's.

It was SO good that Indy effectively outlawed it subsequently by making the inlet area for the engine smaller each succeding year.

ZOOOM

Edited by ZOOOM, 28 September 2009 - 15:29.

[TrackDog]

I was there when the "Whooshmobile "ran at Indy.

While it certainly was a great engineering masterpiece, it was not the first turbine or four wheel drive dar to run at Indy.
The Four Wheel Drive corporation ran a car at Indy in the thirties.
A Kurtis upright sprintcar ran at the track in the 50's with a Boeing turbine in it but it never attempted to qualify.
Sir Stirling Moss pleaded with Granatelli to employ the Fergeson four wheel drive system at Indy after he drove the Fergeson F1 car in Europe.
The Granatelli Novi's were built around the Fergesson system in the 60's, but the car was very heavy and never completed the race.

With the information from the Novi's use of Four wheel drive, and the knowledge of the Pratt & Whitney helicopter engine availability, Granatelli finally put it all together in "Silent Sam". The chassis was designed by Ken Wallis using the backbone system and hanging the engine on the inside of the frame and the driver on the outside of the frame. It was all powered through the use of the Fergeson four wheel drive from the FWD Novi's.




It was SO good that Indy effectively outlawed it subsequently by making the inlet area for the engine smaller each succeding year.

ZOOOM

It WAS good, but it was also a technological dead-end. The STP turbine cars, if allowed to continue competing, would have obsoleted everything else at the track overnight; and what would have happened to the auto industry as a whole as a result? The turbo cars didn't have much in common with the passenger car industry at all...not many passenger cars were 4WD at the time( and there still aren't that many), and none were turbine powered( as now...).


It was estimated that Granatelli spent nearly $600,000 in 1967 dollars to build Silent Sam, and everyone else in Gasoline Alley would have had to do the same; but for what? A car that was more airplane than anything else, and didn't have nearly as much sponsorship potential as a piston-engined car would...could you imagine the ads...Pratt and Whitney wins Indy 500; General Electric dominates Indy; did the turbocar really need STP?

Chrysler MIGHT have benefited from a turbine Indy program, but the street version of any turbine engine would have hit the market just in time to be decimated by the first energy crisis and tightening emissions and fuel economy standards.

Don't get me wrong...I was glued to the radio in 1967, too...I wanted that car to win, and I was heartbroken when it didn't. But now, I'm kinda glad it didn't...



Dan

[MrLarry]

Some interesting stuff: STP #60
Purchased from Parnelli Jones in 1998

This chassis is believed to be the original Lotus 56 that was the # 60 STP turbine car that was in the 1968 Indy 500 and later was retro fitted with a 4 cam Ford engine.

Originally this car had a PT6 Pratt Whitney engine and 4 wheel drive thru a Hi Vo chain transfer case. Bruce is installing a Allison 250-C20 engine in it's place. To make the car as true in appearence to the original body a rather unique exaust and air intake ducting system was fabricated by master metal man Don Brown. All other fabrication is being done by Bruce himself.

http://www.conceptca...56/default.aspx A new link to some more Lotus history including this particular car.

This is the website: http://www.avonaero.com/STP%20CAR.htm

[zakeriath]

Taken in 2007