77 replies to this topic

[Jhope]

hello all,

I've been looking without luck for a video version of this race. I went to my local model shop/bookstore and posted a want add for this race. Since then, no one has replied. Does anyone have this race on video? And if so, would anyone be willing to make a copy for me. I'll pay 15$ Canadian for it. If anyone does have it, and is willing to send it over here, I'd prefer the British commentary with Murray and James.

Thanks all

[This message has been edited by Jhope (edited 04-10-2000).]

[Ray Bell]

Do you have PAL or Never The Same Color - or the capacity to play either? My brother certainly has the race on tape, and every race since as well. And the few before that that were broadcast in Australia.
Anything's possible here, just add money (it's my brother you'd be dealing with!).

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Jhope]

uhmm, i'm not sure what kind I have, but I know it's the kind that is not compatible with the European versions of VHS. Anyways, i'm now officially interested in this video, and if he, or you could throw in Austria 82 for an extra 10$, i'll go for it!

[Ray Bell]

The freight will cost you more than that! You like Elio, I gather?
PAL is the VHS system used in NZ, England and Australia - I don't know about Europe in general, but France has something else again.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[doohanOK]

Specifically, what races does he have? Do they have Murray Walker's commentary?

regards,
doohanOK.

[Jhope]

yes, elio is/was great, but i was too young to remember most of his accomplishments. I was 9 when he died, so most of the knowledge i have about him is through reading various reports and stories told to me. I jast want to see what i consider a very fine victory.

I want Imola for sentimental reasons, you know, I'm from canada and you know, Gilles and his "last" race. Just mumbo jumbo like that.

If you could find out how much the freight is, i'll pay for that as well as a new tape. If it's too much, I'll just ask for Imola, unless they both fit on one tape?

[Ray Bell]

doohanOK - he has taped and kept every GP televised in Australia with the exception of the 76 Japanese race. So that's everything from 1981, plus a couple in 1980 if my memory is correct. It's just the bare race, no intro, no postscript, Murray Walker and James, Jonathan, Martin etc.
JHope - I'll ask, but you will have to have a video that plays back PAL - I know you can get them... then you can transfer it to NTSC... both will fit on a 4-hour tape. It won't happen in a hurry, but if you want I can make it happen. I'll see him next week - he's too tight to be on the net!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Eric McLoughlin]

Lots of VCR's in Europe now have dual PAL/MTSC capability. For the record, the TV systems go something like this:

Europe(except for France and some of the former Communist countries), Argentina, Australasia, Hong Kong, South Africa and some other African countries = PAL

France, some Eastern European and Asian countries and former French colonies = SECAM

USA, Canada, Japan and most of Central and South America = NTSC.

Just to complicate matters further, PAL comes in a number of versions but I think they are all compatible with each other.

What a mess. Roll on a global, high definition TV standard (some hope)!


[This message has been edited by Eric McLoughlin (edited 04-10-2000).]

[Louis Mr. F1]

Hi F1 oldbies,

Last nite, i was watching the 82 F1 season review tape and i had one question regarding the San Marino clash and its aftermath (for a long time now). Since i wasn't following the sport back then, i reckon this is the best place to look for more info. You guys are the most knowledgeable bunch.

--------------------------------------
Do you think Didier deliberately cheated on Gilles?
After the San Marino dispute, how were Ferrari fans' reacting to it? did they just celebrate as any other victory? or they felt bad about what Didier done to Gilles? Did they really perceive Gilles as the #1 driver in the team? or didn't care?

then after Gilles was killed in Zolder, how were the reaction of the fans (Ferrari in particular) and other drivers toward Didier?
Did they isolate him?

Didier named his son Gilles in memory of Villeneuve, and he dedicated his pole in Canada to Gilles, did the fans/media view this as a way to improve his image? do you think it was geniune? it think he knew Gilles really hated him. How was the Canadian pulbic's reaction to him? Did people really forgive him?

After Didier's own career ending accident in Hockenheim, did the fans/media see it as justice of what he had done?

also, did he go to Gilles' funeral? was he allowed to go in?

wow, seems lots of questions, but i find it really interesting to complete this little piece of puzzle in my mind for quite a while. Please educate me on this F1 History course. Thanks!

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
Do you think Didier deliberately cheated on Gilles?

It's almost twenty years ago. I'll try to remember.
Until coming to Ferrari Didier was sure he was at least as fast as Gilles. Obviously the experience at Ferrari proved highly frustating. I don't think he planned to cheat but I guess the temptation during the race proved just too great.

After Didier's own career ending accident in Hockenheim, did the fans/media see it as justice of what he had done

Here I can only speak for myself. I think my feelings were 95% sad and disgusted by the double Ferrari tragedy and 5% relieved that he wasn't going to be champion. Never, I repeat, never did I however consider it as any kind of justice done.

also, did he go to Gilles' funeral? was he allowed to go in?

If I remember correctly the funeral clashed with some race or so. I don't think there many F1 drivers present.

[David M. Kane]

Ironically, most of the anger was directed towards poor Jochen
Mass who obviously felt terrible. Most of the anger was led by
that "RAT" Lauda, the sneaky little devil girl that he is. He never even had the nerve or the manhood to talk to Mass about his
feelings. He told me that to his face at a cocktail party at
the Ford Museum the Thursday night before the Detroit GP, the first GP after the tragedy. Jochen was far too nice about the whole thing as it relates to Lauda and I told him so. He should
have confronted Lauda about all the girlish gossip he was spreading.

Pironi was a very strange and mean man. His wife divorced him
about a year or two after the accident. He was very, very political to the point when he had twin boys later that year he
named one Didier and the other Gilles?

Lauda is on by "no respect list" after his recent sneaky and devilish attack on Bobby Rahal. Which, I might add is only one
notch in his gunfighter's belt.

[LittleChris]

As I remember it, it was made very clear to Didier that he would not be welcome at Gilles funeral.

[FLB]

Didier Pironi's life was very messy. He had an affair with a French actress at the time of his accident, despite having married in April (Gilles Villeneuve hadn't been invited). Paris Match also had a story at the time of his death in 1987 that he had a lot of personal difficulties which played a big role in his relationships with women. His children, born shortly after his death (his wife was pregnant when he died), were conceived in vitro and carried by his second wife, whom he adored by all accounts. Jacques Laffite said that his personal problems explained at lot of things in his behaviour.

Pironi genuinely didn't undertand the fuss after Imola. Villeneuve's family told him not to bother for the funeral. Very few F1 personalities showed up as the Monaco Grand-Prix was coming up and the funeral was in Québec (Berthierville). IIRC, Peter Windsor was the only international journalist to come.

[dmj]

I always felt sad about Pironi. Sure, I was very young then and all Ligier drivers were my heroes. I didn't care much about Gilles until much later saw his Dijon battle with Arnoux.
What Pironi did to him was inexcusable, but Didier is one of most tragic figures in F1 history nevertheless. He had ability to win championship but a row of tragedies happened instead. Remember, just a few weeks after Villeneuve, young Riccardo Paletti died in Montreal when his car crashed into rear of Pironi's stalled Ferrari. Also, as long as I know, Didier and Gilles were actually a good friends until Imola. I think Pironi had some reasons to believe that God punishes is for his steal in Imola a little bit too radically... He must felt partially responsible for two F1 drivers' deaths in a short time. It could explain his self-destructive pace in Hockenhaim in rain (which led to his injuries) and in boat races (which ultimately cost him death).

[fines]

I don't think it was remorse that drove Pironi on, he was just a racer! And I still believe that there were no team orders at Ferrari at that race, as confirmed by all leading team personnel afterwards, it was just a genuine misunderstanding on Villeneuve's part. The only one to back up his version was Enzo Ferrari, who wasn't present, and I believe that to have been just a poltical stance.

Pironi was very much respected by his peers, he was the president of the drivers union GPDA.

[YOSSARION]

I remember an article (trying to remember where it was) that showed the lap times when Villeneuve was ahead and when Pironi was ahead. Villeneuve maintained that the Ferraris were very marginal on fuel and that once ahead the team was supposed to slow down. The times drop off whe Villeneuve was ahead, and when Pironi got ahead they sped up. Villeneuve couldn't understand what Pironi was playing at - but still Pironi's eventual duplicity had not crossed his mind. I believe Pironi knew exactly what he was doing, and did so to destabilise Villeneuve's position within the Ferrari team.
What angered Villeneuve even more than the move itself was that some within Ferrari (ie Marco Piccini) denied that the team agreement existed (the same one that he had held to at Monza '79 - giving Scheckter the WDC).
Villeneuve put it best by saying, and I don't remember the exact wording - that if he wanted to keep someone behid him, they stayed behind. At no point did Villeneuve believe he was in a race - nor did Pironi.

[Louis Mr. F1]

thanks for your above feedbacks, but there are still many unanswered questions.
anymore?

[Chris Skepis]

I was watching the practice of the 1980 Brazilian GP at Interlagos (long circuit) from the pits, and I had a very clear view of the entrance of "Curva 1" (first corner). There were only two drivers who had the guts to take it flat out. They were Didier Pironi and Patrick Depallier. All the others lifted the throttle on the 50 meter mark. I stayed there the entire saturday because I was expecting any moment one of these two ( or both) going straight into the guard rail. Obviously they never did, but watching Didier and Patrick really worth all the sun burns I suffered that day. It was close to 40 degrees celcium and Pironi almost had a insolation. I was very fortunate to have a super 8 camera and I filmed they going flat into that corner. No one else could do the same. Neither Villeneuve nor Andretti nor Laffite nor Jabouille (pole).....absolutely no one. But I always preferred Villeneuve to Pironi. I always rate Villeneuve at the same level as Peterson and Rindt. And I really don't think Jochen Mass did something wrong at Zolder. Actually he tried to give Gilles enough room to overtake him. It was Gilles who didn't understand his manouvre and run over Mass.

[Barry Boor]

I think the main issue here is that we are dealing with one very simple person (Gilles) and one very complex man (Didier).

What I mean is, it would seem that Gilles was inclined to believe that what people told him was what they meant, and his character did not allow him to see the hidden agendas.

Didier was a very political person; very clever, it would appear, to the point of devious. I have always felt that Didier knew EXACTLY what he was doing at Imola. He knew that Gilles didn't expect him to steal the win, which made the job that much easier.

Despite all this, I liked Pironi. As stated by Chris and others, he was a real racer who could be as fast as anyone. Personally, I was very sad when he crashed at Hockenheim. He was on his way to being the first French World Champion and that was something I thought was overdue.

Gilles crash at Zolder was NOT Jochen Mass' fault - it was Didier's. Please do not misunderstand my meaning when I use the word 'simple' in connection with Gilles, but in his simple mind, the only thing he wanted that Saturday afternoon was to be faster than Didier. He could not wait to get around Mass, chose the wrong side and paid the ultimate price for the error.

Had Didier not committed his act of treason at Imola, I'm sure Gilles would have been quite happy to be behind him on the Belgian starting grid; but he wasn't happy......

[Louis Mr. F1]

anymore stories on these 2 F1 figures? it's great to read them.

[Richard Jenkins]

Jacques Laffite was the only current GP driver who attended Gilles' funeral.
As my profile states, Gilles Villeneuve was my favourite - I cannot answer any of the questions as I wasn't around then - but I have negative feelings towards Didier Pironi but I would in no way ever feel that his injury or his death would be 'justice'. The recent F1 Magazine article may answer a few questions - although if IIRC, you've read that.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Barry Boor

Gilles crash at Zolder was NOT Jochen Mass' fault - it was Didier's. Please do not misunderstand my meaning when I use the word 'simple' in connection with Gilles, but in his simple mind, the only thing he wanted that Saturday afternoon was to be faster than Didier. He could not wait to get around Mass, chose the wrong side and paid the ultimate price for the error.

I don't entirely understand what happened at Zolder (I've seen video, and it is absolutely hideous), but I thought that the the accident was attributed to Gilles habit that weekend of going fast on his cool down lap... So he was going towards the pits at full speed. Mass saw a Ferrari in his mirrors, and assumed the car behind was on a hot lap... So he moved to the outside of the chicane (was it Jacky Ickx Bocht?) while Villeneuve was entering the pits (which was to the right).... then it happened....

Off course, I could be wrong. Was it a normal habit for Gilles to go fast on a cool down lap? Or was he so incensed )sp) about what happened the previous race that he didn't use his head?

[Barry Boor]

No, the accident happened on an entirely different part of the circuit. The cars were approaching the long double right-hander at the very top of the track (as the circuit map is usually printed).

In those days there was a chicane at the end of the back straight behind the pits but no others until just before the pits. After this chicane the road bends slightly left before entering the aforementioned long right.

I was not aware that Gilles was on an in lap. I thought he was still trying to go quicker than Pironi.

This is my recollection of the accident. If I am wrong I'm sure someone will tell me.

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I think the main issue here is that we are dealing with one very simple person (Gilles) and one very complex man (Didier).

Well summed up Barry, a factual and well reasoned response.

I've been thumbing through my 'Automobile Sport 82/83' book and in actual fact, if one is looking for the main reason why the accident took place - perhaps the answer is more straightforward than we all might think.

On Friday's qualifying session, Gilles came across Mass on the back stretch of the circuit and was held up when Jochen didn't see him and stuck to his line.

On Saturday, tragically for both Jochen and Gilles the same situation occured again - only this time Jochen was keen to move out of the way for Gilles to try to make amends for his earlier mistake on Friday.

Of course, Gilles had good reason to believe that Jochen would remain right where he was in the middle of the track......and the rest remains part of F1's tragic folklore.

- So my point is that irrespective of the stormy relationship between Gilles and Pironi at the time, the seeds of fate were sown by a seemingly innocent incident during that first qualifying session on Friday - rather than Gilles necessarily being 'driven' to his death by Pironi.

[mat1]

Sounds very believable.

In fact, usually this kind of "explanantion" is closer to the truth than the difficult "psychologic" ones.

mat1

[Yorgos]

As to the Italian fans reaction and their view of Gilles, if your Italian is OK, go to http://autosportnews...miti/gilles.htm.
If you are a Gilles fan and you were watching F1 at the time, you'll need a handkerchief too. At least I needed one.

Yorgos

Correction: The fans reaction is at http://autosportnews.com/miti/gil4.htm.
The previous url is Gilles biography
BTW "Gil" is the Italian spelling of Gilles. You will see it on many fans banners in Italian races of the time.

[Louis Mr. F1]

For those who tried to access the above link with problem, please delete the last dot of the address, it wasn't needed.

also, anyone kind enough to translate? ciao is the only Italian word I understand (that's if it's Italian) thanks

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
No, the accident happened on an entirely different part of the circuit. The cars were approaching the long double right-hander at the very top of the track (as the circuit map is usually printed).

You are quite right. It happened at the left-hand kink before the Terlamenbocht corner. A very high speed place... The chicane after the kink is now named after Gilles...

Gilles had done 3 laps on qualifying special tyres, so he had to come in...

From Jochen Mass's point of view:

"I saw Gilles in my mirrors and expected him to pass on the left. I moved right and couldn't believe it when I saw him virtually on top of me. He clipped my right tyre and bounced off the front tyre and was launched into the air."

Unfortunate set of circumstances...

[mtl'78]

Hi,

The story of Pironi and Villeneuve is not a very happy one, but for a while they were best mates and had some really funny stories.

Also to understand what happened I think you must understand how both men were.

Gilles was a classic daredevil, someone who liked to attempt "the impossible" and LOVED all the attention he would get for it. Pironi was much the same,and for a while they were close friends. One of the crazier stories is of a game they used to play. On their trips from Monaco to Mugello, they would take turns at the wheel, timing each other on how long they could go flatout without touching the brakes. whoever lasted longest was the bravest, greatest driver... Pironi admitted that he never lasted as long as Gilles, and that whenever he would flinch, he would shoot a look over at Gilles, who invariable appeared unconcerned, fiddling with cassette tapes or the windows etc. When he would ask Gilles when his greatest moments of fear had been and Gilles would say the saqme moments that Pironi had flinched, but Gilles had trained himself to never show fear, and that was a big part of his "secret"...

So Pironi quickly realized that he could not compete with Villeneuve in this respect, so he undertook the mission to undermine Gilles' support within the team. By 1982 he had succeded in poralizing the team. Some people in Ferrari resented Gilles close relationship with the old man. Enzo was very feared within the team and for example in 1980 when the car was a complete mess, Gilles called it "a garbage can". He compared it to a big red wallowing Cadillac and told Enzo "I'll drive the wheels off of it, because that is what I do, but it'll be for 10th place." Not many drivers have got away with this (ask Prost).

Joann, Gilles wife had told Gilles that Pironi was not to be trusted, but Gilles was naive when it came to F1 politics and he belived himself Ferrari's golden boy. At Imola '82 Pironi overtook Gilles 3 times in total, each time about 2 laps after Gilles had slowed. Gilles would speed up and pass Pironi, slow again, and get taken underbraking. On the second time, Gilles came up to pass at Tosa, and Pironi squeezed him inside and they touched. Gilles still made the pass but was becoming a bit worried. Again he was flashed the "SlOW" sign so with 2 laps to go Pironi once again took the lead in a very aggressive move into Tamburello, a corner that was impossible to pass at if the driver ahead was taking at full speed. After the pass Pironi did not slow at all and Gilles took off after him, furious. By the last turn Gilles had caught him and was almost side by side, he would have only needed a few more corners to make the pass but Pironi had timed it perectly.

I have a picture of the podium in a book. You can see Pironi with an embarassed grin while Gilles is looking over at his wife, his eyes almost closed and the disgust dripping off his face.

The reason Ferrari never came out and said anything public other than that it was a "misunderstandment" was to avoid revealing just how much turmoil there was within Ferrari. Mauro Piccini(sp), the Jean Todt of the day, had never had a good relationship with Gilles. They constantly argued, but Gilles had a grudging respect for him nonetheless. Piccini resented Gilles position within the team. Gilles had Ferrari's ear and as such had a bigger status than his direct boss, Piccini. So after Imola Piccini aligned himself on Pironi's side and he was the one that defended Pironi publicly. Forghieri, the Ross Brawn of the time, had missed that race due to illness I belive, and privatly he was just as fuming as Gilles. In Gerlad Donaldson's book he was quoted as saying "Had I been there that day I can tell you that the result would not have been the same".

Gilles flew back to Monaco that day in his helicopter along with his wife and Jackie Stewart, who was related the entire story, and spent the whole time trying to calm Giles down.

Enzo called in all the senior management and their discussions were not known but they issued that final statement that Imola had been a "misunderstandment". But what was it, did Gilles misunderstand the meaning of "SLOW" or did Pironi?

Anyways the next weekend In Zolder, Ferrari were a mess. Gilles and his crew now deeply resented Piccini, and Pironi's crew and there was a very bad atmosphere in the Ferrari garage. This was reflected in qualifying when both Ferraris were struggling. Worse for Gilles (who was on average 1.2 secs faster!!) he was 0.1 behind Pironi. with 15 mins left in the session GV went out with his last set of qualifiers. These tyres lasted only 2 laps, a warmup and a flyer. By the cool down lap they had lost their peak performance. On Gilles' flyer he was blocked by one of the more than 30(!!!) cars trying to qualify and crossing the line he was given the "IN" sign. This is where the confusion came from. Gilles had a habit of driving his IN laps flatout, in order to focus on the reactions of his car and help with ideas on setup changes, he would scream into pit lane, to practice this as well, as Ferrari had a history of destroying its tyres and forcing pistops.

However its clear to me that Gilles was attempting another flyer. He desperatly wanted to be ahead of Pironi. It was unlikely that he would have succeded with the state his tyres were in, but that was Gilles. When he came up to Mass, it was coming up to the "Terlamenbocht" corner, off of the very fast Butte kink.
http://www.forix.com...&l=0&r=7506&c=0

The circuit map shows this well. Gilles was travelling an estimated 255km/h accelerating flat out while mass was doing about 130, in 5th gear, cooling his tyres. Normally a driver would take the "apex" of the Butte Kink right on the inside, so Mass (on the inside) veered right, to the outside. This happened just as Villeneuve was picking that line and as soon as Mass had completed his move Gilles was right on top of him. GV tried to straighline the kink in evasive action but he just clipped Mass rear tyre and then was launched into the air. If you've never seen the crash, I'm not about to look it up, but it really shows how far safety has come over the years. The Ferrari was so destroyed that the driver, still strapped to his seat, was thrown out of what was left of the car, and ended up crashing through the fences at the outside of the Terlamenbocht curve.

I have no doubt that Gilles would have attempted that last lap regardless of his rivalry with Pironi. I think the accident was the result of a stupid miscommunication between two drivers. Bit even they can't share the blame. Formula one and its idiotic qualifying rules back then were to blame. The limited number of qualifying tyres forced the drivers to go for it no matter what. That in combination with 30 or even 40 cars (usually dangerously slow) trying to qualify at the same time made qualifying by far the most dangerous aspect of GP driving. It was a matter of time before something like this happened. Many drivers including Scheckter Stewart and Gilles himself had warned about it.

After Gilles died I didn't watch any races until 1984 and the battle between Lauda and this young french driver I remembered dicing with Gilles, Alain Prost. But even since it has never been the same. I think that for alot of people who saw Gilles race, we could never find another driver to be as emotionally engaged in.

I remember reading a quote somewhere that said something like: We knew even then that we would never see someone like him again, that's what was so sad.

[Don Capps]

Something of possible interest.....

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

After the USGP at Long Beach, the FIA tribunal issued its decision on the protest concerning the Brazilian Grand Grand Prix lodged by Ferrari and Renault regarding the first and second place finishes of Nelson Piquet, Brabham-Ford, and Keke Rosberg, Williams-Ford. To the surprise of no one except the teams of the Formula One Constructors Association (FOCA), the tribunal upheld the protest and excluded Piquet and Rosberg from the results. Interesting enough, it ignored Ken Tyrrell's protest of the turbocharged cars since the rules specifically excluded "turbine" engines and the turbocharger is a form of a turbine...

This moved up Alain Prost, Renault, to first, followed by John Watson, McLaren-Ford, and Nigel Mansell, Lotus-Ford. The tribune stated that the "normal level of lubricant and coolant is that which is in the car when it crosses the finishing line, therefore no topping up of any kind is permitted." This aforesaid "topping off" being the key to the means by which the FOCA teams planned to fight the FISA (Federation Internationale de Sport Automobile)-supported teams with their turbo cars. The rather lame FOCA defense was that although "topping off" was prohibited in all the other classes of racing the FIA sanctioned, it wasn't specifically prohibited by the rules governing Formula One; therefore, if it wasn't stated that it was not allowed, it was allowed because nothing said you couldn't do it. Essentially, the tribunal said, "Next.."

And the fireworks started. After the failure of the Lewis Carroll approach to fighting the FISA, the FOCA teams regrouped to ponder their next move. Never mind that the casual observer of F1 racing thought that the tribunal ruling seemed very reasonable, to the FOCA teams it was a call to arms. The standards were being unfurled once more as the drums of war were sounded in the bases of the FOCA members.

On the Wednesday prior to the "San Marino" Grand Prix at Imola, the FOCA teams declared that it wished a postponement of the Imola race until early July to have time to sort out the implications of the ruling handed down by the tribunal. The FISA, however, was having none of that, even if the organizers were more than a bit apprehensive about the whole deal. Not getting the answer they desired - and knowing the answer in advance was not a feat to strain their mental powers - they announced that FOCA would boycott the Imola race and those following until they got their way. As you can imagine, this was like the cockroach in the potato salad at the family reunion picnic. Or rather, half a cockroach in the potato salad...

The transporters of the FOCA teams stayed in their compounds rather than venturing forth to Italy where Imola became a part of San Marino for a long weekend. From Woking, however, the Tyrrell transporter and service vehicles headed for Imola. After racing without any major sponsorship, Ken Tyrrell had finally landed some sponsorship. After Long Beach, the andy appliance company terminated its sponsorship deal with the Toleman team and signed a three-race deal with Tyrrell, especially in light of the obvious emerging talent of Michele Alboreto. Tyrrell had also secured a one-race deal with Ceramica Imola for the race. While he fully supported the principle of the FOCA boycott, Tyrrell also had bills to pay and had to pay attention to another form of principal.

The ATS team of Gunther Schmidt joined Tyrrell at Imola, stating that he didn't see where FOCA had been doing him all that much good. This offset the recent defection of Guy Ligier and his team from the FISA ranks to the FOCA ranks.

The entry consisted of the Renault, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo, and Toleman teams along with Osella, ATS, and Tyrrell. The Tyrrell team's presence in the paddock was highly significant since the (obscure) rules stipulated that for a race to count towards the championship it had to have 13 entrants, or half of the allotted 26 entries. Without the Tyrrell team the race would have had only 12 entrants; and, third car entries were now not allowed. Life is funny sometimes when the consequences of two seasons later are viewed in light of this event...

As can be easily determined, the FISA was going to run the race, come hell or high water. The organizers were fretting, but were told that run the event or else. So, knowing that the presence of the Ferraris on the grid should at least allow them to break even, they carried on and soldiered for the FISA.

The front row was the property of the Renault equipe - Rene Arnoux and Alain Prost, respectively - with the Ferrari Scuderia filling the second row, Gilles Villeneuve ahead of Didier Pironi. Next up was the Tyrrell of Alboreto followed by the Alfa Romeo of Bruno Giacomelli.

At the start, Arnoux shot into the lead followed by Villeneuve, Pironi, Prost, the Alfa Romeo of Andrea de Cesaris, and then Giacomelli. The Toleman-Hart of Derek Warwick was already out having run into difficulties on the warm-up lap (it turned out to be that a battery lead had come loose) and the Tyrrell of Brian Henton made it as far as the first corner before retiring with a broken transmission.

Then in quick succession out went Prost with engine problems, de Cesaris with a duff fuel pump, the Osella-Ford of Riccardo Paletti with suspension problems. Meanwhile, Arnoux was in the lead, but the two Ferrari turbo cars were nipping at his heels. Pironi briefly passed Villeneuve into second, but was soon back into third place. Then, out went Giacomelli with a big hole in the block of his Alfa Romeo engine. This was as the red cars were ganging up on the yellow, white, and black Renault. Villeneuve nipped past for the lead. Then they were three abreast down the front straight. Arnoux cut in front of Pironi to recapture the lead. Then, with about 15 laps left to run, the Renault engine failed and Arnoux pulled off the track and retired.

With a lead of over 45 seconds over the only other car on the lead lap, the Tyrrell of Alboreto, Villeneuve nodded to the pit signal, "SLOW," hung out by team manger Marco Piccinini. With the race won and as the team leader, began to ease off slightly to maintain position and ensure that the cars finished the race.

To his astonishment, anger, and fury, Villeneuve was then passed by Pironi about a dozen laps from the finish. After several laps of dicing, Villeneuve was back in the lead with less than 10 laps to the finish. His assumption was that Pironi was merely spicing up the proceeding for the fans since he now dropped into formation right behind him. Visions of the two cars tangling and handing the race to the Tyrrell were foremost in his mind.

As he entered the last lap, Villeneuve was perhaps more concerned about other things than Pironi. At Tosa, to ensure that he didn't unnecessarily stress the car, he run slightly wider than usual. To his amazement, Pironi tucked into the inside, passed him and roared off to the finish line crossing as the winner.

Villeneuve was furious. If Pironi had had the lead at the pit signal, "SLOW," he would have trailed Pironi to the finish. Just as he had for Jody Scheckter when it was entirely possible that he could have taken the Championship. To Gilles, such behavior was reprehensible. As a sportsman first and foremost, playing fair and square was important. To do something like what Pironi had done was unthinkable. On the podium, the usually cheerful Villeneuve ignored Pironi and stared into space, his trophy for second place untouched. As he stalked from the podium on the way to his helicopter, Gilles vowed to never speak to Pironi ever again, a promise he was to keep.

Villeneuve's mood was not helped by Piccinini lamely claiming that there were no team orders and that the "SLOW" signal was just that, a signal to slow the two cars down. Of course, that was not what was said in prior races or how Villeneuve interpreted the signal. The result also caused deep anger on the part of the mechanics servicing the Villeneuve chassis. There were many sullen and dark stares in the race shop for days after the event.

Almost overlooked in all this was that Alboreto finished third behind the Ferrari cars. Only five cars were classified as finishers in the race. The sixth place car, the ATS of Manfred Winklehock, was determined to be two kilos underweight and disqualified.

Between the races at Imola and Zolder, the FISA and FOCA held a meeting in Casablanca to discuss their differences. It turned out to be merely a long way to travel to glae, snap, and snarl at each other. The FOCA stance was that the FIA tribunal ruling on the Brazilian race changed the ground rules and they wished to appeal to the FIA technical committee. As could be expected, the FISA said no way, Jose! The FOCA (as well as the FISA) was under immense commercial to get the show back on the road. The FOCA teams agreed to end their boycott and turn up at Zolder with their cars ballasted to make weight. The results from Imola, however, were allowed to stand. Many expected the FIASCO War to re-ignite within weeks.

One minor point left unresolved as the teams headed for Zolder was exactly when were the cars expected to make weight, in addition to the end of the race of course. The rules stipulated that a car could be weighed up to three times during a race meeting. It was noted that a car's weight could easily vary up to 12+ kilos simply through brake wear, the use of lubricants and coolants, as well as tire and skirt wear. Essentially, the answer was by default, any time!

After the death of an Osella mechanic the previous event, the pit and paddock complex at Zolder was completely rebuilt. The pit lane was now widened and the pits themselves enlarged. Indeed, the pits had room for all 32 entries was space left over, a stark cry from the past. The circuit itself was unimproved and generally considered a burden to be borne rather an exciting venue. Most drivers expressed their dislike for the circuit and few claimed to have any positive remarks to say about it except to say it was better than Nivelles... faint praise to be sure.

In the Ferrari pits, Villeneuve and Pironi may as well have been in separate universes. Villeneuve completely ignored Pironi, acting as if he didn't exist. He was also very cool towards Piccinini as well for his less than rousing support. Many thought Villeneuve's days at Ferrari were numbered unless significant changes were made. As usual, Enzo Ferrari said little for the public. Drivers, in his view, were merely drivers; the stars of the show were the cars.

The red cars were struggling in the early stages of practice, neither car exactly shining. Finally, time began to run out in the timed qualifying practice. There were the cars of Rosberg, Lauda, and Alboreto ahead of the Ferraris. And Pironi was ahead of Villeneuve on the grid.

Pironi had a time of 1:16.501 while Villeneuve was sitting on a best of 1:16.616. With only about eight minutes left in the session, Villeneuve took the track with his last set of qualifiers. As he was coming up to speed, he was also coming up on Jochen Mass in his March. Mass was slowing down in preparation to enter the pits, so he moved to his right. Unfortunately, Villeneuve also chose to move to the right to pass Mass. The left front wheel of the Ferrari made contact with the right rear wheel of the March. The Ferrari was launched into the air, landing on its nose in a sandy run-off area about 50 meters up the track. It then started to roll, hitting the barriers and coming apart. Pieces of the car were strewn for over 150 meters on the track.

Villeneuve was hurled from the car as it rolled and into the catch fence on the opposite side of the track. He suffered massive cranial and spinal injuries, yet was still alive. He was immediately rushed to the nearest medical facility where it was announced that his injuries were life-threatening. Villeneuve never emerged from his coma and, to the surprise of few who knew the extent of his injuries, died shortly after midnight.

By then, the Scuderia Ferrari transporter and other vehicles were on their way back to Italy. They simply packed up and left. Nor was a spot left on the grid for a remembrance of the gallant Gilles, it being decided that it was too dangerous to leave the space vacant. The withdrawal of the Ferrari team allowed the reserves onto the grid, the first of whom was, ironically, Jochen Mass...

But, as at Monza in 1961, Zandvoort in 1970 and 1973, Watkins Glen in 1973 and 1974 and many other times in the past, The Show Must Go On. Few perhaps on the grid had much heart for the race, but it was simply not much thought to do otherwise.

The Renault duo were on the front row again, the order being Prost then Arnoux. Arnoux, however, was out soon after the start and Prost followed him in retirement as well, leaving Rosberg and the McLaren duo to battle for the win. Rosberg displayed great form and was the equal of Watson and Lauda. It was a wonderful performance and seemed destined to be rewarded with a win. But, John Watson hung onto Rosberg's tail the last several laps, and when Keke went slightly wide at the chicane, Watson nipped by for the win. Lauda was initially third, but when his car was weighed it was found to be underweight - by less than three kilos, less than the weight of some bodywork he had lost earlier in the race. This elevated Eddie Cheever in the Ligier into third. And, most miraculously of all, it put the Fittipaldi of Chico Serra into sixth place!

For some of us, racing was never quite the same again. While Gilles didn't have the numbers of many others and some considered his style a conspicuous lack thereof, he almost made me imagine what it would have been like if Tazio Nuvolari had raced in the modern era. Tough as nails, foot to the floor, tail hung out through the corners, a great sportsman, a cheerful competitor, and a Racer. Perhaps he was already obsolete. But, to those of us who were fortunate enough to see him in action, he was what we always imagined a Racer should be. He was fair and square and fun to watch. We already knew that we would never see his likes ever again. I always imagined that only Bernd Rosemayer, Tazio Nuvolari, and Gilles could wring the maximum out of an Auto Union type C or D... and that is exactly what he is doing.

///////////////////////////////////////////////

Didier Pironi seemed to be rolling towards the Championship since there seemed to be little opposition to him, bar the Renault and Brabham teams suddenly finding the reliability they had been lacking up to this point. The package that Scuderia Ferrari had was on target and only strengthened by the addition of Patrick Tambay. The only concern from the non-turbo class was that John Watson might find the reliability that had suddenly deserted him.

Within the Renault Equipe, there were some very strained relations, especially between the two drivers, Alain Prost and Rene Arnoux. The lack of reliability was driving tempers to the edge and having the two drivers sniping at each other was not helping. The blind Nelsonian eye that Arnoux had cast at the signal board at Paul Ricard was still a nasty topic within the team. Prost and team manager Jean Sage were most displeased with Arnoux, but Rene was seemingly unperturbed by the evil eye he received from many members of the team.

Scuderia Ferrari was on a high. Patrick Tambay seemed to fit right in with the team and fully understood that his role was to check the six of Pironi. The car was now reliable, quick, and a solid performer at nearly every track. The management was clearing shelf space for the two trophies it anticipated to receive at the end of the season.

At Hockenheim, the early sessions of practice on Friday saw Pironi on the pole with teammate Tambay in fifth. Between them were Prost, Arnoux, and Nelson Piquet in his Brabham. The Brabham of Riccardo Patrese was in sixth, so the front three rows of the grid were filled with turbo cars.

After only four laps in practice, Jochen Mass stopped the March in the pits and climbed out. He then sat on the pit counter and said he simply couldn't drive the car. After the accidents at Zolder, Montreal, Brands Hatch, and Paul Ricard he simply could go to the well again. His ribs were still very painful from the accident at Paul Ricard; simply sitting in the car was extremely painful. The additional pain from the compression injury to his spine from the accident in France caused by the beating from the ox cart suspension of the March was simply too much to endure. He was literally gray from the agony he was suffering.

After the good weather on Friday, Saturday was overcast and the rain poured from the sky for most of the day. Any hope for improving grid times was now gone. Since the forecast was for possible similar conditions on Sunday, many of the teams decided that the drivers needed to do some laps on the rain tires just in case it was like this for the race.

Amidst the rain and the great clouds of spray thrown up by the cars as they circulated on the track, the season took yet another lurch. Pironi was following the Williams driven by Derek Daly on the straight leading into the Stadium section. Daly could make out the shape of a Renault - Alain Prost - through the rain and spray on the left side of the track as he entered the Stadium section. He had no idea of what was about to happen behind him.

When Daly moved to the right of Prost, Pironi instinctively moved to the left since he was closing on the Williams and assumed that Daly was letting him past. In the vast clouds of spray and the rain, Pironi never saw the Renault until they made contact...

The Ferrari was launched onto the air off the rear of the Renault. It hit nose first on the track, did several rolls down the track and then hit the barriers. The entire front section of the 126C2 was ripped off.

Piquet, following not far behind, immediately pulled off the track near the destroyed Ferrari. He leaped from his car and dashed to the wreckage. Amazingly, Pironi was not only alive when Piquet reached him, but conscious. Piquet was helpless to assist Pironi and could only offer solace and encouragement - it was clearly evident that Pironi was seriously, if not gravely, injured. The pits became aware of the lack of activity on the track and then knew why when shaken drivers started entering the pits.

Prost was somehow uninjured when the Ferrari slammed into his Renault. He was understandably very shaken by what had happened. Like several others drivers, he could do little but stand by as the rescue workers tried to assist Pironi. It took nearly 30 minutes to free Pironi from the wreckage, load him into a medical evacuation helicopter, and rush him to the Heidelberg University hospital. As mentioned, he was awake during this entire ordeal.

At the hospital, the doctors immediately began work on his massively injured legs. There were fears that his right foot would have to be amputated. It was saved only by the surgeons after a long, harrowing operation that involved much delicate and intricate surgery to save the foot. In addition to his severe foot injury, Pironi also suffered broken right and left legs, a broken left arm, a broken nose, and relatively minor head injuries. It was clear that he had come within a whisker of dying had the car continued to roll after the nose was ripped off.

The members of Scuderia Ferrari could only sit and wonder why was this happening to them? Pironi had been a key member during the driver strike at Kyalami; had survived a scary shunt soon after that while testing at Paul Ricard; the role he played in the incident with Villeneuve at Imola; the startline accident at Montreal in which Paletti slammed into the rear of his stalled Ferrari; followed by yet another testing shunt at Paul Ricard; and now this. The team was devastated. And to make matters worse, there was a quickly hushed shouting match outside his room involving Mrs. Pironi and a certain "companion" of his who had accompanied him to the track...

//////////////////////////////////////////////////

Although I was much, much more of a Villeneuve 'fan' than a Pironi 'fan,' I was profoundly shocked by the accident at Hockenheim. It never entered my mind that it could be retribution ot "payback" for Imola -- only the thought of "Not Again!"

As mentioned, Pironi was a complicated, complex person and much more from the "modern" mold than Gilles or Keke. I think that his move at Imola was done with malice aforethought and with his clear understanding of what is deemed important is important -- winning. That Piccinini and the other gutless wonders at the Scuderia failed to support Gilles was my big shocker. So much for loyalty.

In many ways, the Imola incident was the beginning of the end for me in GP/F1. Pironi begat Senna. Imola begat Suzuka.

After Imola, to me personally, Pironi was a Zero. And not much better for the Scuderia. Only when Mario came back at Monza did I mostly forgive the Scuderia for its profound stupidity.

[mtl'78]

I agree Don. It took me at least 12 months to be able to watch another GP. And I think that deep down I still carry a bit of resentment for the way Ferrari handled the situation. Actually it wasn't until my first trip to Italy that I made peace with Ferrari, in my mind. In Taxi cab after taxi cab, upon learning my birthplace, just about every driver would launch into a very serious discussion about Gilles and how he remained the Tifosi's favourite after all these years (Of course this was 1999, before schumi won twice, so...) and I was truly amazed at that.

"American?"

"No, French Canadian"

"Ahh! Villanova! Villanova!"

I was there to look at art and architecture and spent as much time discussing F1 and Villeneuve just as much. I didn't get the chance to go to Maranello but I have no doubt that I will one day, if only to sit outside the factory gates and talk some more Villanova!

[Brian O Flaherty]

any chance you could point me towards some good books on Gilles mtl ?

[RJL]

Thanx to everyone for the nicely worded posts in this thread. It really brought me back to those days. Gilles was my idol (still is, I guess), and I was absolutely devasted when he died. Thinking about F1 in the 70's & 80's really underlines how boringly predictable it's all become these days. What a shame.

There will never be another one like Gilles, he was a throw back to a time when drivers were larger than life. I imagine he's going wheel to wheel with the likes of Ascari, Nuvolari, & Rosmeyer on the old 'ring.

[Andy Glaess]

I realize that this thread is quite old now, but after just watching several of the 1982 Grand Prix, in their entirety, I'd like to add my opinon.
82 Imola is one of the races that I was lucky enough to view. I had only previously seen the BBC highlights of this race, but after watching them I thought that the racing between Villeneuve, Pironi, and Arnoux was more intense than I had understood from reading about it over the years. Now, having just seen the entire race, I feel comfortable with the following opinions:

-Pironi and Villeneuve actually raced hard for most of this race. The duel was very, very intense at times. Gilles may have slowed at times when he assumed the lead, taking him at his word, but when Didier jumped in front again, Gilles would be on the attack. He went off the track briefly, even. Didier almost lost control at one point. It was a race, all afternoon.

- Having said that, late in the race (and it may have been continuous, but I only saw it once on the Italian broadcast) the Ferrari pits held out a sign that said Gilles 1, Didier 2 Slow. This was when Didier was in the lead. I take that to mean, "assume your proper order and save your fuel."

-Didier knew the orders, chose to ignore them, and jumped Gilles at the last possible passing opportunity. In his mind, at the time, I don't think that it was the great drama that it became. Sure, Gilles would be pissed, the friendship was over, and hopefully Gilles would leave the team at the end of the season. Clearing the way for Didier. But this wasn't an isolated result, either. Reutemann had ignored the Williams team orders the year before in Brazil, I believe. Later in the 82 season, Arnoux would do the same to Prost and Renault.

Pironi was using an underhanded method to deal with a rival that he couldn't beat on a consistent basis, but certainly I don't think he anticipated Gilles' death. Gilles, however, has to bear the majority of the blame for what happened to him. He lost control of his emotions. He knew he was faster, and had a much better shot at the World Championship than Didier, but he just decided to go to "war". Prost and Jones handled it better, they had their teamates covered and they knew it. Prost did go nuts with Senna and a broken agreement later though (Imola 88? or was it 89?), so maybe Gilles feared Didier more than he should of?

Anyway, my two cents after seeing the infamous race.

[kevthedrummer]

QUOTE]any chance you could point me towards some good books on Gilles mtl ?[/QUOTE]

The only two books I have on Gilles are Gerald Donaldson's excellent biography, "Gilles Villeneuve - the Life of the Legendary Racing Driver", and Nigel Roebuck's book on him which was published by Autocourse and has many excellent pictures. I've seen quite a few Italian language books about him.

[angst]

I think Don's take on this is very interesting, and Pironi's part in current F1 driving 'culture' is something I hadn't fully thought through. Pironi begat Senna, Senna begat Schumacher. The 'win at all costs' mentality.

The examples of Reutemann-Jones(Brazil '81) and of Arnoux-Prost(France '82) have both been brought into this debate, but those examples are entirely different. In both of those cases the 'wrong-doer' was clearly ahead and beating their teammate but were expected to hand the lead to their team-leader through pre-arranged agreement. Both cases are difficult to call because if you were comprehensively beating your teammate, would you be happy to give that up? Should such a response be expected from a competitive sportsman? There is a debate there, still, but the Pironi-Villeneueve situation is entirely different.

Pironi had been comprehensivle outpaced by Villeneuve throughout both the Imola weekend and their time togather as teammates. Even during the race, Pironi only got past Villeneuve when Villeneuve had slowed the pace. As has been said here, he knew he couldn't out-perform Villeneuve and set about upsetting the equilibrium within the team. He couldn't outrace him, so he tried to beat him politically. If only the old man had outright condemned the move, but as usual Ferrari was a political minefield. Piccinini suited Pironi down to the ground. Manipulative, cold and calculating.

I have always had a distrust, even a dislike, of Ferrari and that whole incident entrenched my feelings that way. But I loved Villeneuve's style, the way he went racing, he was truly from another era, the last in a long line of drivers who transcended the mere boundaries of driving cars very fast. The very antithesis of the controlled, corporate embalment that F1 was and is undergoing.

[David M. Kane]

Angst:

Wish I said that, you hit it right on the head.

[Wolf]

Pardon my french, but don't I think Ferrari ™ politicking is recieving enugh attention... Would it be too far fetched to assume Piccini has already taken sides ar the time of Imola event; and Pironi was acting in accordance with 'silent' agreement? C'mon, I think if there was a sign hung out saying Gilles 1, Pironi 2nd, slow- any disobediance would result in much more outrage than Enzo's, previously described, feeble attempt of appeasing Gilles... Unless there was enough friction within the team at the time , as one would assume ther was to warrant 'will-I-nil-I' reactions.

[angst]

Originally posted by Wolf
Pardon my french, but don't I think Ferrari ™ politicking is recieving enugh attention... Would it be too far fetched to assume Piccini has already taken sides ar the time of Imola event; and Pironi was acting in accordance with 'silent' agreement? C'mon, I think if there was a sign hung out saying Gilles 1, Pironi 2nd, slow- any disobediance would result in much more outrage than Enzo's, previously described, feeble attempt of appeasing Gilles... Unless there was enough friction within the team at the time , as one would assume ther was to warrant 'will-I-nil-I' reactions.

I think you are almost certainly correct in your thinking. According to Gerald Donaldson's book, Piccinini was at Pironi's wedding, while Villeneuve was seemingly not invited by Didier. I think the usual Ferrari political shenanigans were most definitely going on during this time. Which is why I said that Pironi and Piccinini were made for each other. Enzo probably saw the on-going friction as a strong motivator within the team, and was probably more than happy to let it play itself out. He seemed to enjoy such frictions within his team.

[scousepenguin]

The real tragedy is that of being human.

Viewed coldly (and its hard to do so, especially for a Gilles fan such as me) the accident could have been
avoided had the driver simply walked away for the weekend and not driven at all - emotionally Gilles was not any fit state to drive a lethal racing car at Zolder, the same as with Senna in Imola '94.

But it is easy to say that in retrospect, drivers face such risks and awful choices. In the end, they are mortal men, with job and fears like the rest of us, doing things only a handful of people on the planet can.

[Paul Taylor]

Originally posted by scousepenguin
The real tragedy is that of being human.

Viewed coldly (and its hard to do so, especially for a Gilles fan such as me) the accident could have been
avoided had the driver simply walked away for the weekend and not driven at all - emotionally Gilles was not any fit state to drive a lethal racing car at Zolder, the same as with Senna in Imola '94.

But it is easy to say that in retrospect, drivers face such risks and awful choices. In the end, they are mortal men, with job and fears like the rest of us, doing things only a handful of people on the planet can.

You know that wouldn't have happened. You know he wouldn't have just walked away because he was angry about what happened two weeks previous. In the end, Gilles and Mass were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was a freak accident. Many different circumstances coming together to create that situation. What if Gilles had gone out of the pits 5 seconds later. What if he'd been a little slower on his outlap. What if Mass had taken a different line at that point. It's all speculation and in the end, I don't think anything could have prevented it.

[Ralliart]

I haven't seen this mentioned - Imola was known as the circuit where fuel efficiency was paramount. That's why Villeneuve's times were slower than Pironi's. Villeneuve led and slowed, Pironi led and sped up. There were orders and both drivers knew them - whoever was in front - all things being equal - stayed in front while the teammate, if possible, held station behind. Pironi violated those orders. All of this covered in the Autosport interview with Villeneuve after Imola. Also, Lauda felt that Mass, who he knew very well, taking part in the race - only because of the open slot - was shoddy and I concur.

[pkenny]

I really can't add much to the debate. Certainly Villenueve was in a terrible state of mind and would have felt that powerful elements within Ferrari were out to get him. Nonetheless, at that point he misjudged what Mass was about to do (and the earlier reminder of the same thing happening on the Friday gives an important context). In that respect, the direct cause of the crash was Villeneuve himself. As for the proximate causes - read Richard William's excellent biography of Enzo Ferrari and see how the old man liked to create "creative tension" within his team. As Nigel Roebuck always says Gilles was too honest, straightforward and decent for all of this - he would have been bewildered and angry when he realised that he was the only one who really felt like that.

I went to Zolder last weekend (Renault World Series) with my son and a friend from rural Quebec (his mother's maiden name is actually Villenueve - it is a reasonably popular name there). I was surprised how strong I felt watching the cars fly through the dip to the chicane that now bears his name, even now coming up to 24 years after that day.

[David M. Kane]

Ralliart:

If Lauda knew Mass so well why did he go the press first rather than the man? I, Innes Ireland
and Eoin Young had an extended conversation with Jochen Mass on the Thursday of the 1st Detroit GP. It was held at the Ford Museum. Jochen was still very shaken and quiet fragile because
Lauda was telling everyone, but him, that the accident was HIS fault. I suggested that he go to Lauda as a man, man to man, and tell him if he had an issue with him why not be man enough and come to him and discuss it. Jochen felt very uncomfortable with this idea. So how this translates to "Lauda knew him well..."

Sorry to be so confrontational, but Lauda is a rat and a s#$%^stirrer.

In my visit to the Porsche Racing HQ in Weissach. the following week, they were of the same opinion as was Vasek Polak who was visiting at the same time.

I think you do Mass a disservice.

[LB]

Originally posted by mtl'78
I agree Don. It took me at least 12 months to be able to watch another GP. And I think that deep down I still carry a bit of resentment for the way Ferrari handled the situation. Actually it wasn't until my first trip to Italy that I made peace with Ferrari, in my mind. In Taxi cab after taxi cab, upon learning my birthplace, just about every driver would launch into a very serious discussion about Gilles and how he remained the Tifosi's favourite after all these years (Of course this was 1999, before schumi won twice, so...) and I was truly amazed at that.

"American?"

"No, French Canadian"

"Ahh! Villanova! Villanova!"

I was there to look at art and architecture and spent as much time discussing F1 and Villeneuve just as much. I didn't get the chance to go to Maranello but I have no doubt that I will one day, if only to sit outside the factory gates and talk some more Villanova!

In thoery being 1999 that could actually mean Jacques.


No wait, seriously...

[angst]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Ralliart:

If Lauda knew Mass so well why did he go the press first rather than the man? I, Innes Ireland
and Eoin Young had an extended conversation with Jochen Mass on the Thursday of the 1st Detroit GP. It was held at the Ford Museum. Jochen was still very shaken and quiet fragile because
Lauda was telling everyone, but him, that the accident was HIS fault. I suggested that he go to Lauda as a man, man to man, and tell him if he had an issue with him why not be man enough and come to him and discuss it. Jochen felt very uncomfortable with this idea. So how this translates to "Lauda knew him well..."

Sorry to be so confrontational, but Lauda is a rat and a s#$%^stirrer.

In my visit to the Porsche Racing HQ in Weissach. the following week, they were of the same opinion as was Vasek Polak who was visiting at the same time.

I think you do Mass a disservice.

Quite. I felt Lauda acted less than honestly with regard to this, but then he still hasn't (AFAIK) refuted his accusations against Patrese with regard to Monza 1978. Great driver, one hell of a brave SOB (that performance at Monza in '76, and his retirement at Fuji the same year showed great strength of character), but throughout his career he has said things that just make me feel he is a bit of an a***hole, frankly.

Talking of Monza '78, and with Don's linking of Pironi-Senna-Schumacher; could the kangaroo court that (wrongly) banned Patrese have been the beginning of the end? I remember Rosberg saying that when he first came into F1 Andretti took him to one side and basically told him to learn how it's done in F1. Clearly Patrese wasn't taking much notice (which is what maybe annoyed the older drivers), but could the over the top action taken against him have undermined a) the younger drivers respect for their 'elders' and b) some of those senior driver's appetites for association with certain other members?

[Ralliart]

Lauda was quoted the day after Zolder'82 - it appeared in a Swiss newspaper the day after that - and an excerpt appeared in the L.A. Times the day after that.
"Jochen Mass cannot claim total innocence. This was not a normal accident - it was a fatal error. After seeing the Canadian in his rear mirror, Mass should have stayed where he was - namely in the middle of the track. Just like on the autobahn, you can't change lanes at the last moment when you see someone much faster coming up right behind. Why did Mass start on Sunday? He didn't qualify and only got a starting position thanks to this accident. Personally, I would have felt very shabby."

Three years later, in his book "Meine Story", he wrote:
"Villeneuve's death at Zolder in 1982 can be seen in the context of his willingness to take risks, but it came about as a result of a very special kind of misunderstanding. I pieced together what happened that day from the video recording. True, the camera doesn't follow the cars right through the corner, but you can make out how Jochen Mass - who was on a pit-stop lap - chose the last possible moment to move out right, off the ideal line. Obviously, he had seen Villeneuve coming up in his rear-view mirror and was trying to do him a favor; on the other hand, this kind of maneuver always has the makings of a misunderstanding. To my mind, when you are coming in, you should either edge out towards the grass verge or clearly adhere to the ideal line, so that the driver coming up behind you knows what's what. Moving over at the last moment simply takes the man by suprise. I don't think Jochen Mass did the right thing but, having said this, I must say that Villeneuve was perhaps the only driver around who would have chosen the risky option of overtaking a slower car going flat off the ideal line. The chances of a mistake or a misunderstanding were simply too great."

I see nothing, in these two quotes, to argue with.

[David M. Kane]

Ralliart:

I have no argument with these quotes, they are very logical and they do state the correct course of action. However, I did view the accident, before I finally destroy the tape in a state of total frustration, close to 100 times. He's absolutely right, hold your line don't, don't try to help the guy.
I too think he did see Gilles, I think he was shocked at how fast he was going, I know I was. I don't recall seeing any blue flags.

In my very similar accident at Montreal, I fluffed a shift on a broken gear, there never was a blue flag, the other driver tried to passed me on the outside at full speed, punching me in the sidepod,
missing my head by less than 6 inches. Fortunately, I only tore my hand off; but's that's racing.
I now have good enough use of my hand to drive again.

Having said all of this, I still don't think Lauda handled the situation anywhere near like he should have.

Jochen Mass while no Gilles, nor no Lauda had a very decent career. He is a gentleman in every regard. Niki Lauda, on the other hand was, is and will always be a total jerk. I truly mean this, I hope you never have the displeasure of encountering this little jerk, I can assure you that you won't walk away a better person. Whereas a chat with Jochen is a talk with a real human with depth, spark and a twinkle of smiles as opposed to a hollow empty robot that is, was and will always be...Ratso.

I wish I still had that tape so I could send it to you, then you could make your own judgement.

[Ralliart]

Mr. Kane: You're entitled to your opinions. You've talked to Mass and Lauda, you're a racer (shocked to hear about the near miss and glad to hear that the hand has mended well). I'm just a fan who followed Lauda's career since 1969 and remain a fan. I lived in Germany for 10 years and often saw/heard Mass commentate on races, be interviewed, etc. A nice guy, no doubt about it. You happen to loathe Lauda and that's fine. I have the accident on tape, I have the Autosprint issue with stills from the tape, diagrams, etc. It's time we heard from Mass (and Pironi).
"I was going down the middle of a straight and saw Villeneuve in my mirror coming up. I moved right to let him through, but he came in on the right as well. He touched my right rear wheel and somersaulted."
Jochen Mass 10 May '82 L.A. Times

"Before the introduction of ground effect skirts, the cars used to take the bend where Gilles was killed at 180 kph. Saturday, we were going through at 250 or 260 kph. Those responsible are the people who make the rules and those who enforce them. Unfortunately, the conflicts of interest in Formula One are stronger than any notion of safety."
Didier Pironi 10 May '82 L.A. Times

"Four years before Gilles' accident, I had an incident with Bruno Giacomelli at Zolder, coming over the crest. He went to the right at the bottom, and I wanted to overtake him on the right. I didn't hit him because I braked so hard I went into the barrier.
In '82, I was cruising back to the pits, going over that hump. I saw Gilles in my mirror. The normal line was on the left. I stayed right, to let him pass on the left, and have the line. But he decided to pass me on the right because he wasn't sure if I had seen him. I should have, perhaps, taken that into consideration, but you can't know.
Next day, I retired where the accident had happened, so I got stuck there for the race. I had a sense of guilt, but it was not that I blamed myself entirely for the accident. There were not too many accusations."
Jochen Mass '99 Motorsport

In the end, a terrible tragedy. A misunderstanding. There's a chance that Villeneuve could've done what Mass did in '78 - brake - but, as Tambay said in '99, "I think (Gilles') behavior at Zolder was one of revenge and bitteness and rivalry."

[David M. Kane]

I worked for Derek Daly for a year, so I got hear him speak several times. One of favorite stories is the Gilles/Didier "conflict". Gilles swore he never would talk to Didier again and he didn't. Unfortunately hia anger got the best of him. Out of control rage is never a good thing.

Those were dangerous times as we know, I believe at the next GP in Germany, Pironi had his massive accident.

When Tom Pumpelly, myself and our wives went to Monaco in '78. Tom was a good friend of Gilles
from their days in Atlantics said, "it's just a matter of time before that guy gets killed, he's just too crazy, too brave." Unfortunately, he was right, still I miss Gilles all the time. I have 7 framed photos of him hanging in my office. I have only 4 portraits of Jim Clark there...

When I go heaven my favorite thing will be watching, Ronnie, Jimmy, Patrick, Peter and Gilles racing.