Since it's the off season and i would like to start a new topic (something not related to M. Schumacher) for a change. I've recently purchased a 86 Grand Prix review book written by Nigel Roebuck and i found lots of the articles very interesting and i'd like to share this with you guys. For those who had followed the sport for a longer period, this may bring back some good memories. The following is an interview with Keke Rosberg, his final year in F1
SEE YOU ON THE OUTSIDE
Keke Rosberg's last GP was wonderful, as striking a race as he had ever driven, but although he was in front from the early laps, went away into a huge lead, he was never going to win in Adelaide. Not so long as Prost was in second place. Rosberg wanted a victory the last time around perhaps more than anything in his racing life, but still was prepared to sacrifice it for his teammate.
"Alain and i spoke about it before the start, i told him i was going to go for it. This was my last afternoon in a F1 car, and i wanted toremember it as something good after a disappointing season." "it seems a logical thing to do, by trying to get into the lead, set a quick pace, i would force the williams guys to push, maybe use a little more fuel thna they wanted. If Alain drove his usual intelligent race, i thought in the late stages he ought to be ahead of them - in which case i would let him through to win the race and the WC. And if anything happened to him, well maybe i would win my last gp"
Here was a measure of the man, and of his respect for Prost and Mclaren "i've no criticism to make of Alain whatever," " As far as i'm concerned, he's the best driver i've ever known - head and shoulder clear of the rest"
"i've had a lot of silly car problems this yr, but they could have happened in any team. It's just been a run of bad luck that's hard to believe, and i did some things wrong, too. But what has helped me is that the atmosphere in the team has been so good, in the same circumstances, it wouldn't have been like that at Williams, i know that"
But surely there must be time when he glanced envoiusly at the FW11 he passed up?
"No, never, not once. I made my decision to leave Williams for Mclaren and i will always be glad i did. Although Mansell and Piquet won nine races, but listen i made up my mind at the end of 84 that i would quit in 2 years, and when the Mclaren offer came up, i was happy to take it. Here i was getting an opportunity to spend my last season with the most professional team."
"A lot of people thought that i left Williams because of Mansell. Wrong it's true i didn't want him there in th efirst place, and we started off on the wrong foot. After a few weeks, we got on absolutely fine and his being there played no part in my leaving"
"i tell you this though, if i hadn't moved from Williams, i might have quit several months earlier. Frank's dreadful accident left a lot of the authority in the hands of a man (P. Head???)who was one reason for my leaving. We simply couldn't stand each other. No i have no regrets about changing teams."
"people have asked me if i have considered changing my decision, and i'd be lying if i denied it had crossed by mind. but there are hundreds of reasons for me to retire, for example, when i'm playing with my son that is one of the most important reasons, but on the other hand, t doesn't matter at all when suddenly i am in a race car nd this is Australia, the finish! It would have been much harder to stop if we hadn't had the stupid fuel regulations, if it had just been a matter of car and driver, and not having to look at the bloody fuel gauge all the time. And i must admit i would have seriously reconsidered if the new normally aspirated engine had arrived earlier. All the teams will be running them in 1988, so it's just 1 year too late."
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it's not the complete article (took too long to type it all)and maybe you've read about this before, when i re-read/watch the 80s gps, i found most of the drivers are alot more outspoken and they certainly have their own character. Rosberg is one of the driver who i missed his style. don't forget, he's a Flying Finn.
Keke Rosberg
Started by
Louis Mr. F1
, Oct 30 2000 18:03
18 replies to this topic
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#2
John B
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Posted 30 October 2000 - 18:21
I was reading through the book Prost coauthored on competition driving yesterday. He had an interesting passage about his driving style versus Rosberg's which I'll post when I have the book in front of me. Basically AP mentioned how both styles (early turn-in vs. late breaking) could be effective at different points of the corner, but he felt that his style was more effective over a long race and season, in large part because it had less error risk.
At one point AP writes "Note that the cars themselves lend themselves to either sort of style." Interesting because that didn't seem to be the case when Prost and Rosberg were 1986 teammates. Rosberg had a difficult time getting the most out of the Mclaren, with no wins while Prost pulled off the WDC.
At one point AP writes "Note that the cars themselves lend themselves to either sort of style." Interesting because that didn't seem to be the case when Prost and Rosberg were 1986 teammates. Rosberg had a difficult time getting the most out of the Mclaren, with no wins while Prost pulled off the WDC.
#3
FerrariFanInTexas
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Posted 30 October 2000 - 23:12
Louis:
I've just been reading Alan Henry's "50 Years of Grand Prix Racing" from Autocourse, and based on what he writes about KR and the Williams Team, it was Patrick Head he was referring to. Apparently there was some dispute about whether KR's aggressive driving style was too harsh for the Williams in the early stages of the race, leading to a lot of DNF's and early retirements. There was also an undercurrent that because KR smoked and did a lot of not very healthy things, he lacked fitness, and thus drove worse.
KR's response to this is that he had to drive very hard at the start, because the tires were not up to full pressure at the start and the handling was atrocious. His view was that he had to "manhandle" the car around for a few laps until the tires came up to temperature (and thus pressure). His exact comment when asked about this issue is that the comment from Head was "bullshit".
At least, this is what I recall sitting here in my office. I'm always (as usual) prepared to be found wrong on my recall of minutiae.
Avanti Ferrari!
I've just been reading Alan Henry's "50 Years of Grand Prix Racing" from Autocourse, and based on what he writes about KR and the Williams Team, it was Patrick Head he was referring to. Apparently there was some dispute about whether KR's aggressive driving style was too harsh for the Williams in the early stages of the race, leading to a lot of DNF's and early retirements. There was also an undercurrent that because KR smoked and did a lot of not very healthy things, he lacked fitness, and thus drove worse.
KR's response to this is that he had to drive very hard at the start, because the tires were not up to full pressure at the start and the handling was atrocious. His view was that he had to "manhandle" the car around for a few laps until the tires came up to temperature (and thus pressure). His exact comment when asked about this issue is that the comment from Head was "bullshit".
At least, this is what I recall sitting here in my office. I'm always (as usual) prepared to be found wrong on my recall of minutiae.
Avanti Ferrari!
#4
Mosquito
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Posted 30 October 2000 - 23:28
Ouch!!!
Invasion of the scary peeps from the dark dungeons of the 'Nostalgia forum'!!!!
Run, run while you can!
Sorry, could't restrain myself....;)
Invasion of the scary peeps from the dark dungeons of the 'Nostalgia forum'!!!!
Run, run while you can!
Sorry, could't restrain myself....;)
#5
Mila
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Posted 31 October 2000 - 00:19
Rosberg had 8 mechanical DNFs in 86. to boot, he lost a couple of good finishes at Imola and Hockenheim by running out of fuel in the dying laps.
remarkably he finished on the podium only once in 86--a 2nd place behind his teammate at Monaco. some may recall that Rosberg's race was spectacular. from 9th on the grid he was running 5th by the end of the first lap. he later picked off Alboreto and Mansell on the track, and Senna during the Brazilian's tire stop. Keke proved his masterful racecraft that day.
Senna, like others, held high regard for the Finn. I don't believe that this is lost when RB states that Keke is the one GP driver he would have liked to race against. as Hunt pointed out once, Rosberg was a hard man--hard, but fair.
at Mclaren, Rosberg had a few factors working against him:
one, was the brilliant Prost.
two, was the driving style of the brilliant Prost, which was, comparatively, not so greatly hampered by the understeery characteristic of the Mclaren.
three, the Mclaren was not the best car in the field. so, in order to top the Williams boys, Ron and Co. sensibly put all their eggs in one basket. after all, Prost was the proven driver on the roster.
four, first impressions mean a lot. from the get-go, Rosberg and designer John Barnard did not get along. at the first pre-season practice at Rio, Barnard ordered the Finn to take it easy--something beyond the comprehension of Keke. so, needless to say, the new guy made an impression all right, in the armco--the chassis was a write off. Rosberg proceeded to make some tactical errors early in the season, which all the more put the team's focus on Prost.
after all that, the agreement he held with Prost for the Australian round was a testament to his sense of professionalism.
its funny that Alan Henry was brought up by FerrariFanInTexas. I remember a scathing article written by him at the end of 86. in explaining the different driving styles of Prost and Rosberg, he stopped short of referring to the Finn as a hack. very disturbing. did Keke kill Henry's dog or something?
in light of the quote provided by Louis Mr. F1, I don't know what to think of Rosberg and Mansell. Rosberg was asked a couple of years ago to write the introduction to a book on Mclaren. ignoring the actual subject of the book, the passage begins something like this: Frank signed Mansell, so I quit to join Mclaren.
anyway, I could go on and on about Rosberg. thanks for bringing him up.
remarkably he finished on the podium only once in 86--a 2nd place behind his teammate at Monaco. some may recall that Rosberg's race was spectacular. from 9th on the grid he was running 5th by the end of the first lap. he later picked off Alboreto and Mansell on the track, and Senna during the Brazilian's tire stop. Keke proved his masterful racecraft that day.
Senna, like others, held high regard for the Finn. I don't believe that this is lost when RB states that Keke is the one GP driver he would have liked to race against. as Hunt pointed out once, Rosberg was a hard man--hard, but fair.
at Mclaren, Rosberg had a few factors working against him:
one, was the brilliant Prost.
two, was the driving style of the brilliant Prost, which was, comparatively, not so greatly hampered by the understeery characteristic of the Mclaren.
three, the Mclaren was not the best car in the field. so, in order to top the Williams boys, Ron and Co. sensibly put all their eggs in one basket. after all, Prost was the proven driver on the roster.
four, first impressions mean a lot. from the get-go, Rosberg and designer John Barnard did not get along. at the first pre-season practice at Rio, Barnard ordered the Finn to take it easy--something beyond the comprehension of Keke. so, needless to say, the new guy made an impression all right, in the armco--the chassis was a write off. Rosberg proceeded to make some tactical errors early in the season, which all the more put the team's focus on Prost.
after all that, the agreement he held with Prost for the Australian round was a testament to his sense of professionalism.
its funny that Alan Henry was brought up by FerrariFanInTexas. I remember a scathing article written by him at the end of 86. in explaining the different driving styles of Prost and Rosberg, he stopped short of referring to the Finn as a hack. very disturbing. did Keke kill Henry's dog or something?
in light of the quote provided by Louis Mr. F1, I don't know what to think of Rosberg and Mansell. Rosberg was asked a couple of years ago to write the introduction to a book on Mclaren. ignoring the actual subject of the book, the passage begins something like this: Frank signed Mansell, so I quit to join Mclaren.
anyway, I could go on and on about Rosberg. thanks for bringing him up.
#6
Spot
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Posted 31 October 2000 - 12:51
If I may, I would like to add something from my addled memory.
I recall Barnard complaining about Rosberg's style at the time, and in response to Keke complaining about the setup of the car not being to his liking, stated that he refused 'to put the back of the car at the front'. It was only in the last few races of '86 that Keke got his own way, and he was suddenly more competitive.
I recall Barnard complaining about Rosberg's style at the time, and in response to Keke complaining about the setup of the car not being to his liking, stated that he refused 'to put the back of the car at the front'. It was only in the last few races of '86 that Keke got his own way, and he was suddenly more competitive.
#7
Sudsbouy
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Posted 31 October 2000 - 16:16
Yes, I recall the difficulties that KR had with Barnard. I believe that Barnard got so pissed that he intentionally stonewalled KR on setup just to teach him a lesson. A rather disturbing way to waste talent and money (I'm sure the sponsors appreciated this tiff).
Thank you.
Thank you.
#8
david_martin
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Posted 31 October 2000 - 18:35
This probably belongs in the Nostalgia forum - I know there are lots of Rosberg fans there.
For me he was something on an enigma, his "grab-the-car-by-the-throat" style and famous cigar smoking, drinking and partying lifestyle was in complete contrast with his performance on perhaps the most physically challanging and precise circuits, street circuits. Four of his five wins came on the street - Monaco, Dallas, Detriot, and Australia (and the Dallas, Detriot and Australian races were run in some of the hottest conditions for races during the 1980's),and he had a 2nd a Long Beach and again at Monaco.
Truly one of the last great characters of F1, a bit of a dinosaur in some ways, but still the holder of the fastest ever lap in F1.
For me he was something on an enigma, his "grab-the-car-by-the-throat" style and famous cigar smoking, drinking and partying lifestyle was in complete contrast with his performance on perhaps the most physically challanging and precise circuits, street circuits. Four of his five wins came on the street - Monaco, Dallas, Detriot, and Australia (and the Dallas, Detriot and Australian races were run in some of the hottest conditions for races during the 1980's),and he had a 2nd a Long Beach and again at Monaco.
Truly one of the last great characters of F1, a bit of a dinosaur in some ways, but still the holder of the fastest ever lap in F1.
#9
mhferrari
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Posted 31 October 2000 - 23:33
Where can you find those year review books? And about how many pages are they?
#10
Louis Mr. F1
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Posted 01 November 2000 - 01:54
well, i found the book at the Toronto Toy Show where there's a vendor selling some of his F1 onyx models and F1 books, i was surprised to find this book and the picture quality (John Townsend) was very good to me. the listed price was $20 CDN, and because i've also purchased 3 older Onyx models, the seller basically sold the book to me for $5 cdn.
and i love reading the articles and the pictures of the Marlboro Mclaren, JPS Lotus, United Colors of Benetton, Brabham all look very good to me. the book is about 180 pages, if you are interested, i can search a local auto book store as my memory seems to recall that it may carry this one, maybe. and now i want to find the 85 review as well.
when i rewatched the 83 Review tape, Rosberg was challenging for the leading Ferrari of Tambay at Long Beach USA, on the first lap, he was weaving behind the Ferrari but, maybe because of cool tires, he spun his car 360 degrees, and he managed to save it from hitting the wall and then proceeded to attack again, at the end he and Tambay collided at the hairpin, Rosberg's Williams was down on power i believe, but he was sliding his car through the corners. very good to watch. a bit like the young Alesi.
I also recalled there's a US GP (Dallas 84??), Rosberg was involved in a fight with Mansell's Lotus, i think Rosberg was upset about Mansell's earlier tactics that he shut the door on Mansell very bluntly to show his displeasure, anyone recall this to confirm my memory?
Rosberg also used to drive for the little known Theodore F1 Racing Team, owned by a HK racing fanatic, Teddy Yip. Anyone with special info/memory on this particular partnership?? as i'm also interested in this one and only one Chinese owned racing team.
Or should i repost this whole thread to the Nostalgia Forum, how can i do that?
and i love reading the articles and the pictures of the Marlboro Mclaren, JPS Lotus, United Colors of Benetton, Brabham all look very good to me. the book is about 180 pages, if you are interested, i can search a local auto book store as my memory seems to recall that it may carry this one, maybe. and now i want to find the 85 review as well.
when i rewatched the 83 Review tape, Rosberg was challenging for the leading Ferrari of Tambay at Long Beach USA, on the first lap, he was weaving behind the Ferrari but, maybe because of cool tires, he spun his car 360 degrees, and he managed to save it from hitting the wall and then proceeded to attack again, at the end he and Tambay collided at the hairpin, Rosberg's Williams was down on power i believe, but he was sliding his car through the corners. very good to watch. a bit like the young Alesi.
I also recalled there's a US GP (Dallas 84??), Rosberg was involved in a fight with Mansell's Lotus, i think Rosberg was upset about Mansell's earlier tactics that he shut the door on Mansell very bluntly to show his displeasure, anyone recall this to confirm my memory?
Rosberg also used to drive for the little known Theodore F1 Racing Team, owned by a HK racing fanatic, Teddy Yip. Anyone with special info/memory on this particular partnership?? as i'm also interested in this one and only one Chinese owned racing team.
Or should i repost this whole thread to the Nostalgia Forum, how can i do that?
#11
Indian Chief
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Posted 01 November 2000 - 02:23
If he did lack fitness, isn't it odd that it was him who survived hot races and not guys who were used to hot weather, like Piquet and Patrese?
#12
Louis Mr. F1
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Posted 02 November 2000 - 21:16
just want to let those who are interested to know that this thread has been reposted in the Nostaglia Forum, you may read other older member's comment there.
#13
RedFever
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Posted 02 November 2000 - 21:19
Patrese is from Padova (Padua) hardly a hot place......
#14
senninha
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Posted 02 November 2000 - 22:33
Keke drove for Fittipaldi, too.
Cool interview. I didn't know Keke, as Piquet, hates Patrick Head...
I'm afraid JPM will not be Head's guy. It can destroy JPM's career.
Cool interview. I didn't know Keke, as Piquet, hates Patrick Head...
I'm afraid JPM will not be Head's guy. It can destroy JPM's career.
#15
John B
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Posted 02 November 2000 - 23:23
Louis,
The one thing I can remember about Theodore right now is that they used at least 4 drivers in 1982 - Jan Lammers, Geoff Lees(?), Tommy Bryne, and someone else. I think that team is popular for the F1 trivia sites, because it's never easy to be certain who's driving the car at a given race!
The one thing I can remember about Theodore right now is that they used at least 4 drivers in 1982 - Jan Lammers, Geoff Lees(?), Tommy Bryne, and someone else. I think that team is popular for the F1 trivia sites, because it's never easy to be certain who's driving the car at a given race!
#16
BuzzingHornet
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Posted 03 November 2000 - 15:10
I think Patrick Head and Frank Williams have completely different tastes in racing drivers. Head likes guys like Prost and Hill, smooth, fast and kind to the car. Williams prefers people like Frentzen, Montoya and Villeneuve, agressive drivers who like to chuck it round a bit. I suspect that Rosberg was Frank's choice...
I remember Williams saying about Prost that he kept teasing him and asking him when he was going to start sriving on the limit, as he just looked so damn smooth all the time. He also said that he likes to see his cars having their necks wrung, even though that isn't always the fastest way round a track... (did someone just say Villeneuve?;) )
Head has commented several times on his admiration for Prost, and also on how Hill was 'Prost-like' in his application. He was instrumental in bringing Hill to the race team, when FW wanted Hakkinen.
I think Head likes guys who look at the data, feel what the car is doing and ride with the flow... Frank likes guys like Rosberg who stub out their cigarette and go for it
I remember Williams saying about Prost that he kept teasing him and asking him when he was going to start sriving on the limit, as he just looked so damn smooth all the time. He also said that he likes to see his cars having their necks wrung, even though that isn't always the fastest way round a track... (did someone just say Villeneuve?;) )
Head has commented several times on his admiration for Prost, and also on how Hill was 'Prost-like' in his application. He was instrumental in bringing Hill to the race team, when FW wanted Hakkinen.
I think Head likes guys who look at the data, feel what the car is doing and ride with the flow... Frank likes guys like Rosberg who stub out their cigarette and go for it
#17
Sudsbouy
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Posted 03 November 2000 - 15:18
I seem to recall Head making such a statement about JV's driving in Australia. I think it was the last year of slick tires and JV had timed in at least one second ahead of the next car.
Thank you.
Thank you.
#18
BuzzingHornet
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Posted 03 November 2000 - 15:20
Yeah but that lap of JV's was probably one of the best qualifying laps he will ever drive, it was perfection... what can you say when a guy is 1.75 seconds quicker than his teammate in 2nd..!
#19
DangerMouse
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Posted 03 November 2000 - 15:55
I remember seeing telemetry from Rosberg and Prost from the same corner - Roberg make about 300% more wheel inputs and went round slower!!
I loved Keke's spirited driving and attitude. He stayed around far too long though. In his last couple of seasons he looked like a shadow of his former self - a bit like Piquet.
Barnard and Head don't like seat of the pants drivers - they prefer a more methodical and thoughtful approach.
Saying that Frank is known to be a fan of the spilt times - seeing them come down lap after lap and if they don't he wants to know why! So ironically JV at Williams was a conundrum, Hill alwasys went quicker and quicker as the fuel load dropped - JV would bang in a few fast laps and then do nothing for 10 laps (probably due to knackered tyres!) What Frank says he wants in a driver style wise doesn't add up to his enthusiasm for the lap chart!
Back to Keke I really missed him as a driver when he left - I supposed JV has a similar spirit. And is probably why I like Jacques so much.
I loved Keke's spirited driving and attitude. He stayed around far too long though. In his last couple of seasons he looked like a shadow of his former self - a bit like Piquet.
Barnard and Head don't like seat of the pants drivers - they prefer a more methodical and thoughtful approach.
Saying that Frank is known to be a fan of the spilt times - seeing them come down lap after lap and if they don't he wants to know why! So ironically JV at Williams was a conundrum, Hill alwasys went quicker and quicker as the fuel load dropped - JV would bang in a few fast laps and then do nothing for 10 laps (probably due to knackered tyres!) What Frank says he wants in a driver style wise doesn't add up to his enthusiasm for the lap chart!
Back to Keke I really missed him as a driver when he left - I supposed JV has a similar spirit. And is probably why I like Jacques so much.
