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El Camino Real at Juarez, Mexico 1965


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#1 Don Capps

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Posted 30 October 2000 - 20:20

In the Fall of 1965 (probably October rom what I can gather), The Rocky Mountain Chapter of the Formula Racing Association (FRA), the Pan American Region of the SCCA, and the Club Automovilistico del Norte ran an event for formula cars over a three mile/ five kilometer street circuit around the then-new Cultural & Scientific Center in Juarez, Mexico.

On Saturday there was a qualifying event won by Mason O'Kieff in a Lotus 27 - Ford (twin cam).

The main event on Sunday was a 20-lap race won by Karl Knapp in a LeGrand - Ford, with Clint Calvin's Cooper - Ford second and Charlie Adams third in his Brabham. The purse was $3,500.

There was another event scheduled for 1966, but SCG dropped the FRA Bulletin Board in March 1966 and so I am looking for any additional info on these events. I will look again at the SCG's I have just in case I missed a report on the 1966 Juarez race.

By the way, Johnnie Parsons was a member of the Los Angeles Chapter of the FRA.

Interesting the things you find that were under your nose but you never really paid them any attention. That just leads to more questions and more kicking over of rocks....and some surprising things that you find there -- plus more than a few blinding flashes of the obvious.

Just as an aside, keep in mind that post-WW2 road racing in the US was based upon sports cars, not formula cars. Cameron Argetsinger was one of the few to see that the US could and should support formula racing on road circuits. The importance of the 1958 thru 1960 Formula Libre events at Watkins Glen cannot be underestimated.

However, take this anyway you will, I keep finding a significant problem with the self-image, if you will, of US racing since it is constantly dinged by so many in the journals of the day (primarily the 60's). It becomes apparent that most wanted US racing to be a clone of racing in Europe -- or Brooklands in the case of the SCCA. Or what the Americans perceived as racing in Europe; and, the Europeans wanting better access to the big purses offered by the nice American promoters.

The whole issue of professional racing (AAA/ USAC, and others) versus amateur racing as defined by the SCCA is just one of those legacies that is still with us. It is still a surprise after all these years to read the fervor with which folks argued the various sides of this cause in the letters to the editor and in the pages of the magazines, the US ones anyway. One can only imagine what it would have been like had the Readers' Comments Forum been available back then! Surely the server would melt down every few days!

Back on topic: this race caught my attention since I was going to (finally) scan some circuits for Darren Galpin and I saw the brief bit on the race and then saw that Darren has some info for a Juarez track, but it seems to be quite different. Besides, if we can come up with info on German F3 races on an autobahn cloverleaf...

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#2 TonyKaye

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Posted 30 October 2000 - 22:13

I looked through my incomplete sets of Meta and Auto-Pista, but the closest I could get to your race was the inaugural Premio Benito JUAREZ. But this was held at the Autodromo Ciudad de Mexico, so apart from the name it has nothing to do with your race. Well, at least I tried!

#3 Don Capps

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Posted 31 October 2000 - 04:45

Thanks, Tony. I, too, have drawn a blank, but out there somewhere....

#4 Darren Galpin

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Posted 31 October 2000 - 08:14

Thanks Don! Since I joined this Forum the number of tracks that I have added to my website has mushroomed (mainly thanks to Ray, Hans and Barry B, although there have also been many others). And for Barry Lake, I mentioned to Chris Keith and Jeremy Tweddle that you put another sale their way......

#5 Treeface

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 03:55

Don in your research have you come across the reasoning behind USAC's decision to split the National Championship into the dirt and asphalt divisions and dropping all the road course events after 1970? Was the SCCA/F-5000 somehow involved in the decision to drop the road races?
Keep up the good work!

#6 Don Capps

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 15:24

In 1971, Marlboro became the series sponsor for the USAC National Championship. The dropping of the dirt races had been talked about for some time, but when Marlboro showed some reluctance to support them, they were moved to the new Silver Crown Championship series. Trouble had been brewing in the USAC dirt track world after five (or six?) drivers were killed during the 1966 season on dirt in Champ cars or Sprints.

In an interesting parallel development, R.J. Reynolds was doing the same over on the NASCAR Grand National side of the fence. In 1971, the 'Winston Cup' was for selected events -- none on dirt. In 1972, all the dirt events were dropped.

As for the road racing side, not that simple. There was L&M sponsorship (seeing a pattern here?) for the SCCA series and although it was dropped, the series did well for a few years. The USAC car owners essentially laid down the law that it was time to return to oval racing and leave the road races to the SCCA. Parnelli Jones supported teams in both USAC and SCCA for several years.

That is a very edited down & incomplete snippet of what happened. This was a very interesting time in US motor sports. In open-wheeled racing this is where the germ of the real split twix USAC & CART probably starts to form, but it is not that simple, naturally.

The growth of major open-wheeled racing series & events in the US -- and particularly its road racing events -- does not seem to attract anything like the interest shown to even relatively minor formulae in Europe -- the UK & the Continent. Until recently, I had forgotten about the Formula SCCA events and not too surprised to see the lack of documentation and exposition.

Whine, whine...

#7 Treeface

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 04:40

Some of the problem in documenting the history of US open wheel may be the in the variety and scope of the subject. It hard to get one's arms around the whole. Vanderbilt races, Board tracks, The Speedway, Dirt tracks, AAA, ACA, USAC, SCCA, CART, IRL.. you could write volumes on each subject and era.
"This was a very interesting time in US motor sports."
It's amazing how many different series were around; USAC, Trans-Am, Can-Am, NASCAR, etc. It's hard to imagine that amount of driver cross-over today.

#8 Don Capps

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Posted 02 November 2000 - 16:30

Tree,

In the past several months I have started to take a really hard look at American racing. Much of what I have always taken for granted seems to be anything but common knowledge. As you correctly point, the sheer variety and volume of racing in America, especially in the 60's and into the 70's is almost staggering. In addition to the SCCA Trans Am, NASCAR had its Grand Am series (Funny how Pontiac covered its bases, eh?). Both series offered great racing. And the Grand Am cars also took to the road circuits -- I vividly recall the event at Road Atlanta in 1971 or so -- and provided a good show.

And USAC had its own stock car series competing with that of NASCAR, plus the many feeder organizations spread throughout the nation. Anyone recall the Yankee 300 which was held on the road course at IRP (Indianapolis Raceway Park) for several years? Even Richard Petty competed there one year.

The USAC Marlboro National Championship and the SCCA L&M Continental Champion co-existed for several seasons with more than a little crossover. The Can-Am was the probably of the Orange McLarens and then the Turbo Panzers from Porsche. John Bishop was building IMSA into a great organization for professional road racing in America while the SCCA was doing many things to encourage the growth of road racing on both the professional & amateur sides of the house.

The October War of 1973 and the First Gas Crisis and its accompanying recesssion put the skids on much of this. When you look at this particular period now, you wonder how it came apart so easily? 'Tis a sad story...

However, the amount driver and team cross-over during the 60's and 70's is almost mind boggling in American racing. I lived it and still find it amazing how much versatility there was then: Dan Gurney, A.J. Foyt, Parnelli Jones, Bobby Unser, Al Unser Senior, Mark Donohue, Peter Revson, David Pearson, Richard Petty, Walt Hansgen, Lloyd Ruby, and other could -- and just about did -- drive anything anywhere.

Going back to the era in question, these relatively small events are notable because they helped prepare the stage for much of what was to follow. They have been largely forgotten, and that is a shame. I am scarcely a Jingoist sort, but America has a rich and fascinating racing history that equals that of anywhere else in the world. Yet, that heritage seems to not be a priority among many motor racing historians. While we can almost pinpoint the specifics of any event in Western Europe and more & more in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, it is a struggle to find out much of anything about an event like this. Of course, that is always what makes it worth doing and is the fun of it as well.

#9 Carlos Jalife

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Posted 30 May 2001 - 23:09

Don, yes there was a track in Juárez but the race was spesely attended by mexicans (non locals) if anyone at all. so it wasn't covered in most magazines. one day when i go to the library to check stuff I will try an answer on that one.
To Darren: I am doing work on the Rodríguez biography and I want to have all the tracks. I still do not have everything I should, can you help with some. I.e., I have some of the Tasman ones but I need some others, I do not have Snetterton, I do not have the old Riverside, and not the Roosevelt Park circa 1960 or Meadowdae in Chicago, where the brothers ran Formula Jr. races.
Thanks


#10 Darren Galpin

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Posted 31 May 2001 - 07:04

Carlos - fire away! Do you want me to send you the tracks via e-mail? Hopefully I will have most of what you want, but if I don't, I'm sure that there are plenty of people around here who can help!

#11 Don Capps

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Posted 31 May 2001 - 17:55

Carlos,

Thanks for bringing this thread back up the list. I was just thinking about it a few days ago, in fact. All I have been able to find was the article in SCG. Perhaps someone with copies of NSSN or CP from that period can check it out. However, the local paper should be a great source when you get the chance to finally check it out.

#12 Jim Thurman

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Posted 02 June 2001 - 00:25

Originally posted by Don Capps
In 1971, Marlboro became the series sponsor for the USAC National Championship. The dropping of the dirt races had been talked about for some time, but when Marlboro showed some reluctance to support them, they were moved to the new Silver Crown Championship series. Trouble had been brewing in the USAC dirt track world after five (or six?) drivers were killed during the 1966 season on dirt in Champ cars or Sprints.

In an interesting parallel development, R.J. Reynolds was doing the same over on the NASCAR Grand National side of the fence. In 1971, the 'Winston Cup' was for selected events -- none on dirt. In 1972, all the dirt events were dropped.

As for the road racing side, not that simple.


Very good reply Don. But, if I might add a bit here. A few years ago, I went through CP/A to get material for a project I did. And I ran across some interesting items that I'd forgotten...or never caught the first time around (hey, I was kind of young).

As I recall, whichever tobacco company announced their sponsorship first, might have influenced the route taken by the second. Remember, in those days the perception was that the dirt tracks were holding racing back and the belief was cutting the ties to dirt would result in a new, more upscale image. Too bad, because IMO, the USAC champion of the late 60's and the AMA Motorcycle champion up through the 80's were the most versatile champions of motorsport ever seen.

The fatalities mentioned in the 1966 season were all in USAC Sprints, which then was the feeder series for Indy Car (Champ Car) racing. It was a brutal year and I think there were five deaths. No roll cages, practically no fire safety...an awful era. USAC Sprints continued on and that wasn't to influence the negative perception attached to "dirt track".

Like Don mentioned, road racing and USAC was more complicated. The original idea was to take the road races and separate them out, much in the same manner as the dirt miles were shifted to the newly created Silver Crown series. Rules, and even a few race dates, were announced for the USAC Road Racing series...but, it all fell apart with a whimper.

And Don, yes, I do recall reading reports on the "Yankee 300"...and the Grand American (formerly Grand Touring) division of NASCAR. I even remember the short lived Grand National East.


Jim Thurman

#13 cabianca

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Posted 02 June 2001 - 02:10

Regarding USAC and road racing in the 1970s, don't forget USAC had made an earlier foray into road racing in the late 50s, early 60s (champions included Augie Pabst and Dan Gurney). This had collapsed as well, from a combination of USAC's incompetence and the coming of professional racing to orgnizers and entrants usually associated with the SCCA. Dirt had to go wherever it was. Big corporate interests weren't about to invest in building up a bunch of stars only to see them dead before the corps could realize their investment in promo time. Another part of it was trying to "upscale" the sport. But the real bottom line was no corporate dude was going to go to the Springfield Mile. Couldn't find a decent year of chardonnay (or any year) in all of Springfield IL. Same fate befell the USGP at Watkins Glen. Those who pay the bills want to live their usual lifestyle near the tracks they support. Believe it was good ol' Chris Economaki who said the Europeans got tired of getting their collective Gucci loafers muddy at The Glen. Of course it was more complicated -- lets start with the organizers stiffing all the locals for catering and other services -- but money talks and sometimes walks. Bitch as we will about how corporate interests killed the good old days, we must thank them for insisting that someone lived through the races so they could promote them. The big money boys are the real reason that the Foyts, Andrettis and others could enjoy careers into their 50s. Jackie Steward didn't invent safety in the 70s, Ford, Goodyear and Firestone did. In an increasingly litigious world, they couldn't stand the liability so they came up with stuff like fuel cells, etc.
Michael T. Lynch

#14 Jim Thurman

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Posted 05 June 2001 - 01:45

Michael,

Yes, USAC and SCCA both have had bad track records when it comes to running pro series through their own incompetence. I could have said that, because it's very true, but I was trying to be nice :)

Dirt wasn't killing the drivers, at least directly on the Championship circuit. In the Sprints, it was another matter...the Sprints, with no roll cages and little fire safety, had fatalities on both dirt and pavement. They didn't discriminate.

Your comments on the facilities, really hit the nail on the head and probably were the biggest reason, but there was the perception of dirt as well. At the time, the grandstands at Springfield and the Indiana State Fairgrounds were undoubtedly larger capacity than Phoenix International Raceway. And, the facilities probably weren't any more spartan at those fairgrounds than PIR.

In general, U.S. tracks of the 1970 era had quite poor facilities, be they dirt, paved oval or road course, although the dirt facilities had the propensity to make one "dirty". I shudder to think what the VIP sections consisted of at that time (perhaps bologna on white bread? :) )

Good post and very good points Michael. Hit and covered the issues that contributed.


Jim Thurman

#15 Jim Thurman

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Posted 11 August 2001 - 08:14

Originally posted by Don Capps
In the Fall of 1965 (probably October rom what I can gather), The Rocky Mountain Chapter of the Formula Racing Association (FRA), the Pan American Region of the SCCA, and the Club Automovilistico del Norte ran an event for formula cars over a three mile/ five kilometer street circuit around the then-new Cultural & Scientific Center in Juarez, Mexico.

On Saturday there was a qualifying event won by Mason O'Kieff in a Lotus 27 - Ford (twin cam).

The main event on Sunday was a 20-lap race won by Karl Knapp in a LeGrand - Ford, with Clint Calvin's Cooper - Ford second and Charlie Adams third in his Brabham. The purse was $3,500.

There was another event scheduled for 1966, but SCG dropped the FRA Bulletin Board in March 1966 and so I am looking for any additional info on these events. I will look again at the SCG's I have just in case I missed a report on the 1966 Juarez race.

By the way, Johnnie Parsons was a member of the Los Angeles Chapter of the FRA.

[snip]

Back on topic: this race caught my attention since I was going to (finally) scan some circuits for Darren Galpin and I saw the brief bit on the race and then saw that Darren has some info for a Juarez track, but it seems to be quite different. Besides, if we can come up with info on German F3 races on an autobahn cloverleaf...


Don, looking through issues of Competition Press & Autoweek, I stumbled across a fairly lengthy report on the 1966 event, held July 17, 1966 on a 1.4 mile "short course".

Karl Knapp's LeGrand-Ford was fastest qualifier at 58.4 seconds. The first 10 grid positions were determined by a 10 lap race after a practice session on Saturday which was won by Ed Marshall (Alexis-Ford twincam).

26 cars lined up for the 71 lap GP in clear, hot weather. Ed Marshall went on to win, with Hank Candler's "Alfa-powered car" finishing second, the only other car on the lead lap, and Bruce Eglinton's factory LeGrand-Ford was third, three laps behind Candler. Marshall won $1,000 and set a lap record of 54.6 seconds during the race.

There is no formal results summary, but several other drivers and cars are mentioned. I can post more if interested (there is even a bit of a re-cap of the 10 lap qualifier). Going by your description of the 1965 race, this course might have been in an entirely different location.

Speaking of gathering the SCCA Pro Formula, Formula A/Formula 5000 results and race info, what about the pro Formula races like these that were held before the officially recognized SCCA series?

I've run across reports on a few of these races in CP&A.


Jim Thurman

#16 Don Capps

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Posted 12 August 2001 - 15:50

Jim,

I think that it is High Time for those events to be finally gathered up and at least some attempt made to record them. Perhaps once we still looking and get most of these recorded, we can still looking for more information.

The FRA events such as the El Camino Real at Juarez and other races of that sort -- the Hoosier GP being another good example, along with the regional & national F/SCCA events -- need to be collected into some form of a record while we still have many of those around who were there. The work in South Africa, South Africa, and Australia on monoposto/libre racing should serve as examples of what can be done.

For so many years, these events have been treated as basically not worth the bother. The work you and Allen and others are doing for F/SCCA, FA, F5000 is building the foundation for more to come. Add in the Champ Cars (AAA, USAC, and CART -- and yes, IRL) and there is a great story of American racing waiting to finally be told.

No offense to many of you, but I often sick as hell of US racing often being treated as "second tier," whether it is done unintentionaly or not. F1 and Grand Prix are basically just two European racing series, not the whole story. Sorry if I sound like Colonel Jingo, but every once in awhile it just gripes me that US racing in general -- and single-seater racing in particular -- is not taken very seriously by as many as you would think.

Except for Dick Wallen's efforts and those of Gordon White, Mark Dees, and Griff Borgson, and a relative handful of others, US single-seater racing seems to be definitely a second class citizen in the racing world.

Pause in rant until later.