79 replies to this topic

[primer]

Did anyone else notice something weird about this accident? Timo Glock kept turning the wheel as he drove off the track and into the gravel, but the direction in which his wheels were pointing didn't change at all! Right up to the moment he hit the tire barrier. Wish I had recorded the session so I could post screencaps, but it was quite clear in the replays.

Are Toyota going to be allowed to go unpunished for such an unforgivable part failure on their car? This being Japanese GP and still some doubts over Toyota's F1 future, the FIA might pretend it was 'driver error' and try to brush it under the carpet?

Surely this deserves an investigation?!

Edited by primer, 03 October 2009 - 07:34.

[HMV]

The speed with which he detached the steering wheel was concerning too. It almost look as if the wheel was loose before he even hit the wall.

[Diablobb81]

Even if it was a car failure (by the looks of it was) why should Toyota be investigated? Cars have failures. What did Toyota do wrong?

But RTL said that they already switched the steering wheel once, before quali.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 October 2009 - 07:34.

[Pharazon]

remember the steering lock on a f1 is literally nothing, but yes i was suprised.

even before he went off he was at full lock and the car did 't seem to be turning at all

[stevewf1]

Glock had a cold / the flu yesterday, so should he have been allowed to drive at all? Should that be investigated?

[primer]

He held a very steady steering wheel input right upto the point his front left wheel left the paved surface. It was almost as if he was applying more force but the wheel wasn't turning? Then it turned upto nearly 90° moment before his impact, but the steering input had no bearing on where his wheels were pointing.

Strange accident, I can't believe that any driver would crash out on his own coming out of a corner like Casio.

[conkeso]

I was almost asleep and I noticed it too, it was weird how the wheels almost didnt turn at all

Edited by conkeso, 03 October 2009 - 07:41.

[stevewf1]

Strange accident, I can't believe that any driver would crash out on his own coming out of a corner like Casio.

A lot of drivers did a little "twitch" there.

[Pharazon]

A lot of drivers did a little "twitch" there.

there is a kind of deceptive dip there..

when it's raining it always accumulates there

[johnmhinds]

The wheels don't turn for some reason, and he accelerates it straight into the wall.

Edited by johnmhinds, 03 October 2009 - 07:48.

[postajegenye]

Glock had a cold / the flu yesterday, so should he have been allowed to drive at all? Should that be investigated?

There are a number of examples when drivers drove despite being ill.
E.g. this year in Malaysia, Alonso had ear infection (which often affects one's balance as well) and a fever of almost 39 °C on Friday and still took part in the practice sessions (although he drove few laps), he wasn't quite 100% for Saturday and Sunday either.

[DFV]

I also heard the commentators mention this, but I noticed that just after the impact Glock turned the steering wheel a little bit before disconnecting it. You could clearly see the right hand front wheel moving with the steering wheel input. He rode high on the kerbs going out of the previous turn and that might have unsettled the car but it seemed strange that the car didn't turn but almost seemed to go straight ahead.

Edited by DFV, 03 October 2009 - 07:52.

[Pharazon]

The wheels don't turn for some reason, and he accelerates it straight into the wall.

left front seemed to be turning, but the right front seems very straight

[D.M.N.]

NobleF1 on Twitter:

Toyota also said that initial data suggests there was no mechanical problem with the car - 10 minutes ago from web

Toyota says a decision in the morning on if Timo Glock is fit to race. If he cannot, the team will consider putting Kobayashi in - 11 minutes ago from web

[johnmhinds]

I don't think Toyota did anything wrong in letting Glock drive while he was ill, i'm sure Charlie Whiting checked him before he was allowed to get in the car.

Remember when Webber was so ill that he was sick in his helmet at the 2007 Fuji GP.

[BRK]

Did notice that,although I think he had locked his wheels by then and had no option but to plough straight into the barriers.In any case it was a weird accident: seemed to me as if he had expected to get away with two wheels off track and reacted too late when he realized it wasn't the case.

[fisssssi]

It looks to me like he was looking to the apex on of the corner and probably didn't realise he was starting to drift off the line. He didn't accelerate into the wall, you can clearly see him breaking hard as soon as he left the track.

I'm sure he just got his line slightly wrong and just understeered clean off the track.

[VoidNT]

Unwell driver in an understeery car.

[stevewf1]

Toyota to decide about Glock tomorrow: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/79167

Under the current rules, however, Kobayashi would not be allowed to race unless he gets special dispensation from the FIA.

"No driver may start in the race without taking part in at least one practice session on the second day of practice," the rule says.

[HP]

I have my doubts about the Toyota claim taht there wasn't a mechancial problem.

[kaivo]

Accident data going to FIA.

[derstatic]

Looked very weird. That place is not even a corner by F1 standards in the dry. Think it was Montoya who slammed off there a few years ago too. Very strange behaviour from the car and from Timo himself. Steering lock is almost steady and the car just plows off, natural reaction to a car understeering off in a place like that would be to increase the steeringlock before you run out of road. Timo keeps the steering at the same angle and the car doesn't turn enough. There is some turning though so maybe one of the wheels were turning and a steering arm for the other had come loose. Another theory is that there was a problem on the rear of the car, puncture for example that made the front end of the car light.

[Just waiting]

The wheels don't turn for some reason, and he accelerates it straight into the wall.

In that video, when it starts, the wheels were already over at lock when the video began......so he could not turn it further, so it looks to me....

[Phucaigh]

Looks like driver error, went too wide, got on the grass, no grip and the steering was irrelevant due to speed and momentum.

[sreevishnu]

Strange accident, I can't believe that any driver would crash out on his own coming out of a corner like Casio.

Just try Suzuka on Rfactor...in Formula Nippon Mod (kinda very low downforce cars)
If you take that previous corner incorrectly you will end up in the same position as Glock

I have done the same many many times when i was practicing for an online race

[postajegenye]

Is there any official report on his condition? Does he have to stay in hospital overnight?

[Bruce]

Is there any official report on his condition? Does he have to stay in hospital overnight?

No official report on his condition yet, but happily, everything I've heard suggests that it's not as bad as it looks. The fact that Toyota are considering running Glock on Sunday (according to reports) suggests that he didn't even sustain a concussion, which is great news.

As to the rest, as far as I can see, his car under-steered off the track; the wheel is supposed to come off easily to allow the driver easy egress. This wish to penalise someone, anyone!, is ridiculous - I remember the same thing after Senna's death - the race to find a culprit, someone to blame... This is a dangerous sport - the drivers know it and are well paid to take the risks they do. Wishing for every single accident to descend into some sort of legal imbroglio/fault finding mission is unlikely to improve the sport - quite the opposite actually.

[Bruce]

Just try Suzuka on Rfactor...in Formula Nippon Mod (kinda very low downforce cars)
If you take that previous corner incorrectly you will end up in the same position as Glock

I have done the same many many times when i was practicing for an online race

If you watched one of Alonso's laps, he caught a nasty oversteer in the very place that Glock lost it. I'm not saying it's the same thing, but it's no more difficult to crash there than anywhere else.

[dau]

Is there any official report on his condition? Does he have to stay in hospital overnight?

According to RTL the cut on his leg needed 5 stitches but otherwise he seems to be fine and is already out of the hospital.

Curious to hear his explanation.

[Dragonfly]

Did anyone else notice something weird about this accident? Timo Glock kept turning the wheel as he drove off the track and into the gravel, but the direction in which his wheels were pointing didn't change at all! Right up to the moment he hit the tire barrier. Wish I had recorded the session so I could post screencaps, but it was quite clear in the replays.

Are Toyota going to be allowed to go unpunished for such an unforgivable part failure on their car? This being Japanese GP and still some doubts over Toyota's F1 future, the FIA might pretend it was 'driver error' and try to brush it under the carpet?

Surely this deserves an investigation?!

I had the same impression. Seems the moment the left front jumped over the kerb something happened to the steering.
But remember Coulthard last year just going a bit sideways and the whole suspension failed. Mechanical failures happen and nothing can prevent them absolutely. Least an investigation by FIA and the popular now punishment. If absolute reliability was achievable, planes wouldn't fall from the skies.

Glock had a cold / the flu yesterday, so should he have been allowed to drive at all? Should that be investigated?

They are grown up men and it is presumed they take their own decisions as well as bear the consequences.

[SoL]

When cars understeer, they plow through forward even though the wheels are turned left of right. Timo was at almost full lock, and the wheels were pointing straight ahead. That was no understeer, something on that car broke. While he was still in the car and I saw the replay, all I could think was "Senna !!! "

Edited by SoL, 03 October 2009 - 15:38.

[postajegenye]

They are grown up men and it is presumed they take their own decisions as well as bear the consequences.

He does have a point though, if a driver has high fever (I'm not saying the illness contributed to Glock's crash, it had nothing to do with it IMO) or any bad illness and suffers an accident because of it (it can happen, loss of concentration etc) , it can endanger not only his own health (as you said : their own decision, they have to bear the consequences) but that of the other drivers, marshalls etc...

But what can they do? Drivers always want to race so they will even if they're ill...

[Victor_RO]

When cars understeer, they plow through forward even though the wheels are turned left of right. Timo was at almost full lock, and the wheels were pointing straight ahead. That was no understeer, something on that car broke. While he was still in the car and I saw the replay, all I could think was "Senna !!! "

Just re-watched the replay. That was not a steering failure, that was pure understeer. The last shot from the onboard camera sees Timo turn the steering wheel before removing it, once the car is in the wall, and the wheel that was still on the car moved when the steering wheel moved. He simply got too close to the edge of the track, picked up understeer due to the fact that the outside line is dirty, and when he got onto the gravel, the car couldn't be steered any longer because F1 cars don't steer at that speed on gravel.

Sort of like Montoya at almost the same point in 2005. Monty got pushed on that wide line back then and crashed in a similar way, Timo simply caught that line unintentionally today.

Edited by Victor_RO, 03 October 2009 - 15:51.

[Henrytheeigth]

I guess one might say that Timo stopped the Glock with that accident...

[enzodogg]

I guess one might say that Timo stopped the Glock with that accident...

[Sophie]

Im sure there was a car fault there. Look at the right wheel when he turned? The left responded fine but not the right? Left wheel was turning right but the right staight! Ok it could of been driver error as well. Nothing will happen though as its their home gp. I hope Glock will be ok.

[Mauseri]

It's called understeer, power understeer. The wheels turn but there is no grip in front.

[Henrytheeigth]

It's called understeer, power understeer. The wheels turn but there is no grip in front.

Wow and they say there's more mechanical grip with the slick tyres.....

[Craven Morehead]

Glock had a cold / the flu yesterday, so should he have been allowed to drive at all? Should that be investigated?

Barrichello should be investigated too. I heard he stubbed his toe at the hotel the night before..

[Mauseri]

Wow and they say there's more mechanical grip with the slick tyres.....

Actually, this phenomenom is the worse the more grip there is. When you accerelate on the limit of grip, there is less weigh on the front axle and you can't make sharp turns. Never seen a motorcycle on the limit of lifting nose? They do it all the time in motoGP.

Of course, it depends on the differential setup also how much power you get on the track.

Edited by micra_k10, 03 October 2009 - 16:37.

[derstatic]

Sure there is a thing like power understeer. Viewed it a couple of more times and I guess it's plausible. Still looks very weird that Glock makes no visible effort to make the car turn more. It starts going offline very early and there's still acceleration and a steady lock. Hopefully there will be a statement from FIA, Toyota or Glock himself. Other offs were clearly driver errors but this one looked very strange.

[Mandzipop]

Glock wont be racing tomorrow, according to Adam Cooper

[Love_that_Kimi]

Barrichello should be investigated too. I heard he stubbed his toe at the hotel the night before..

The Japanese stewards made it (taking away Glock) look rather dramatic didn't they?

[Guizotia]

Sure there is a thing like power understeer. Viewed it a couple of more times and I guess it's plausible. Still looks very weird that Glock makes no visible effort to make the car turn more. It starts going offline very early and there's still acceleration and a steady lock. Hopefully there will be a statement from FIA, Toyota or Glock himself. Other offs were clearly driver errors but this one looked very strange.

I think the wheels do turn correctly, the right looks straighter I think due to a bit of an optical illusion, but if you stare at one tyre as you watch the video and keep an eye on the steering wheel out of the corner of your eye, you can see that both tyres turn according to the steering wheel input. Well I think I can see that.

[Craven Morehead]

The Japanese stewards made it (taking away Glock) look rather dramatic didn't they?

Yes, they surely did. I was glad to see him flash the thumbs up after all that.

[Clatter]

According to RTL the cut on his leg needed 5 stitches but otherwise he seems to be fine and is already out of the hospital.

Curious to hear his explanation.

I assume that there is a bit more to his injury than just 5 stitches, otherwise it seems a bit weak to miss the GP.

[Dragonfly]

I assume that there is a bit more to his injury than just 5 stitches, otherwise it seems a bit weak to miss the GP.

Put on top his not being very healthy. Seems reasonable to me.

[siberianlady]

Put on top his not being very healthy. Seems reasonable to me.

Well if he has stitches in his leg, feels unwell and on top would have to start out of the pits then the team probably decided there was no real point.

[OfficeLinebacker]

I assume that there is a bit more to his injury than just 5 stitches, otherwise it seems a bit weak to miss the GP.

Is he definitely missing the GP?

[Mandzipop]

Is he definitely missing the GP?

Looks like it

http://formula-one.s...of-japanese-gp/