21 replies to this topic

[glorius&victorius]

Is this true? It would fit in the vision of having Mclaren roadcars with Mclaren engines.....

offcourse F1 would be the prime showcase for this...

[Gilles12]

You started the thread, you tell us if it's true

[glorius&victorius]

http://www.auto-moto...en-1418251.html

offcourse is being denied...


CORRECTION: TITLE SHOULD BE: Mclaren buying BMW F1 *engines* manufacturing plants?

Edited by glorius&victorius, 03 October 2009 - 08:08.

[hunnylander]

You started the thread, you tell us if it's true

AMuS:
http://www.auto-moto...en-1418251.html

Google translated English:
http://translate.goo...f2HsIciSUrJeZHw

[Pegaso]

So McLaren would compete against MB using "BMW" engines. They must be loving it in Stuttgart....

[Matt Somers]

But which McLaren are buying in? McLaren Road department or McLaren Mercedes. If the latter it could be the idea I mentioned before about Mercedes buying Cosworth and doing a re badge. That means they could field 8 teams with Mercedes engines or it's Ron levering more hurt on Mercedes....

[hunnylander]

So McLaren would compete against MB using "BMW" engines. They must be loving it in Stuttgart....

Even if it'll be true, you're wrong. Think about, how Mercedes started in F1 in the nineties!

http://en.wikipedia....ormance_Engines

McLaren wanna build their own engines and would follow the Mercedes route to start. But this will happen just after when Mercedes leaves (end of 2011), and probably with the new specification engine which will be indtroduced from 2013 (?).

[femi]

I personally believe there is great substance to the desire of Mclaren producing their own engines and buying BMW engine production facility is not out of the question.
MW denial was very smart - "We have no plans to by BMW engines". What he didn't say was that there are no plans to buy the production plant, there is a subtle but significant difference.

Mclaren may also be playing it smart; I bet there are negotiations going on about the type of relationship with Mercedes post 2012 and Ron may not be too happy with what Mercedes are bringing to the table. This "leak" will certainly catch the eye of Mercedes and will force them to decide if they need to have their engines in the Mclaren in future.

Even if Mclaren do go ahead and purchace BMW engine production facilities, it is highly unlikely that Mclaren would not be using Mercedes power plant for next year seeing that they have already began the design of next year's challenger and would need to know the engine characteristics not least the weight and distribution so as to produce a seemless car / engine integrated package.

[ItisI]

http://www.auto-moto...en-1418251.html

offcourse is being denied...


CORRECTION: TITLE SHOULD BE: Mclaren buying BMW F1 *engines* manufacturing plants?

It's something i pointed out more then a month ago, but then i was crazy to even think about the idea McLaren buying BMW's engine facility.

It would be an awesome thing!

[vsubravet]

Is the whole thing coming to a boil?

- McLaren going for their own brand of Sports cars with engines developed in-house
- Mercedes unhappy with that development
- Mercedes looking to invest/buy Brawn GP
- McLaren trying to bring Kimi back while Mercedes was pushing for Rosberg
- McLaren trying to buy BMW Engine production plant for their F1 cars

And if Hammy is unhappy with Kimi coming back and is in talks with Brawn GP, with the blessings of Mercedes, will McLaren NOT blink and allow him to leave? As they know Kimi will come back they may not stop Hammy, if he really wants to leave.

The question is when will the eventual parting of ways between the two organizations occur?

[primer]

They are already divorced with Mercedes when it comes to road cars, now it looks like a divorce in F1 is inevitable?

Perhaps Lewis moving to Brawn-Mercedes is not so unrealistic after all.

Edited by primer, 03 October 2009 - 10:17.

[Timstr11]

Whoever created this rumor is hugely un-informed:

There is no separate BMW engine design and manufacturing facility. BMW have integrated their F1 engine activities into existing BMW road car facilities, be it in Munich or Landshut.

And even if McLaren was only interested in the IP of the 2.4 L V8, it would be a lot less worth as there will be a completely new engine formula in 2013.
At least that's the goal FOTA/FIA have.

[Hyatt]

and wont there be a big change of the engine-formula in a few years? does it make sense to invest so much into these current engine-technology?

[glorius&victorius]

Whoever created this rumor is hugely un-informed:

There is no separate BMW engine design and manufacturing facility. BMW have integrated their F1 engine activities into existing BMW road car facilities, be it in Munich or Landshut.

And even if McLaren was only interested in the IP of the 2.4 L V8, it would be a lot less worth as there will be a completely new engine formula in 2013.
At least that's the goal FOTA/FIA have.

you know its not strictly about buying an IP or engine design... or buy the actual casting and drilling machines.... but about the legal entity that somewhere must have been created within BMW / BMW F1 that has hired a group of excellent engineers that designs and oversees the production and delivery of high performance engines.

Historically we've seen similar groups or business entities have quite a lot of value:

-Honda -> went on as Mugen for a few years -> became Honda again
-Renault -> went on as Mecachrome -> became Renault again
-Ilmor -> MBHPE
Cosworth .... -> Cosworth

So i dont see it impossible that Mclaren is exploring something similar. I dont think the roadcars would be fitted with those engines but Mclaren F1 cars... and perhaps Mclaren will look at supplying other teams as well... because the case of MBHPE demonstrates that it is a profitable business.

Here is a nice article on engine builders:

http://f1professor.w...category/ilmor/

Surely mclaren having worked so many years with Brixworth engineers would look into attracting the best ones into their own engine design and manufacturing operation (IF this rumour has any truth to it) and in doing so nibble away at Mercedes stronghold in this field


Seems that Ron (IF this is all true) has created for himself a nice challenge.... he could have chosen the easy way out to design and sell spectacular looking cars, fitted with MB engines... instead he's taken the bold approach and difficult approach.... sell mclaren cars with mclaren engines that replicate the success of mclaren F1 cars with mclaren F1 engines...

Edited by glorius&victorius, 03 October 2009 - 11:52.

[ItisI]

I have been looking on the internet for some information regarding HP per engine, does anyone have some information about the current HP per engine manufacturer?

I dont have the feeling the BMW is underperforming engine or something like that ...

[Madras]

I have been looking on the internet for some information regarding HP per engine, does anyone have some information about the current HP per engine manufacturer?

I dont have the feeling the BMW is underperforming engine or something like that ...

The rev limit makes comparisons more difficult.

[Timstr11]

you know its not strictly about buying an IP or engine design... or buy the actual casting and drilling machines.... but about the legal entity that somewhere must have been created within BMW / BMW F1 that has hired a group of excellent engineers that designs and oversees the production and delivery of high performance engines.

Historically we've seen similar groups or business entities have quite a lot of value:

-Honda -> went on as Mugen for a few years -> became Honda again
-Renault -> went on as Mecachrome -> became Renault again
-Ilmor -> MBHPE
Cosworth .... -> Cosworth

So i dont see it impossible that Mclaren is exploring something similar. I dont think the roadcars would be fitted with those engines but Mclaren F1 cars... and perhaps Mclaren will look at supplying other teams as well... because the case of MBHPE demonstrates that it is a profitable business.

Here is a nice article on engine builders:

http://f1professor.w...category/ilmor/

Surely mclaren having worked so many years with Brixworth engineers would look into attracting the best ones into their own engine design and manufacturing operation (IF this rumour has any truth to it) and in doing so nibble away at Mercedes stronghold in this field


Seems that Ron (IF this is all true) has created for himself a nice challenge.... he could have chosen the easy way out to design and sell spectacular looking cars, fitted with MB engines... instead he's taken the bold approach and difficult approach.... sell mclaren cars with mclaren engines that replicate the success of mclaren F1 cars with mclaren F1 engines...

Now that I think of it, It's not a crazy thought for McLaren to open talks with BMW about their V8 engine.

Although I do not believe that McLaren can acquire engine technology (F1 or road car) at such short notice.
Even for their road car, it was a partnership with Mahle Powertrain.
McLaren are great chassis builders, but no engine experts.
Certainly BMW is not going to sell engine technology to a competitor, which McLaren is.

Pure speculation, but McLaren may try to interest BMW to supply them with unbranded P86 engines as of the 2012 season, until the new engine formula arrives.

McLaren's deal with Mercedes expires at the end of 2011.
So they have less than two years to negotiate a new deal, either with Mercedes or with another party.

Edited by Timstr11, 05 October 2009 - 19:46.

[femi]

Interesting comment from Lewis
BTW aren't mercedes obliged to "detune" their engine to the level of others next year?

[Jackmancer]

Would be quite ironic. The best Mclaren roadcar had a BMW engine as well ;-)

[DFV]

Interesting comment from Lewis
BTW aren't mercedes obliged to "detune" their engine to the level of others next year?

No, they are not. The FIA decided that it was up to the engine suppliers to decide if there was differences between engines. If there were differences the FIA said that the engine suppliers could agree to detune the most powerful, if they wanted to.

[Sunflower]

How difficult would it be to poach the talented BMW Engineers and start up their own Engen Department at Mclaren? Would it be illegal to build the engins on the BMW specs? and would it be worth it financially and in the long run?

[katmen]

How difficult would it be to poach the talented BMW Engineers and start up their own Engen Department at Mclaren? Would it be illegal to build the engins on the BMW specs? and would it be worth it financially and in the long run?

everything is for sale, also ip of bmw engines, yes slightly modified bmw engine design could be legal