65 replies to this topic

[postajegenye]

Not really "racing comments", sorry, but I couldn't find a better place.

So, as an assigment for university, I have to write a study about the role of education in sportsmen's careers, the importance of it in sports etc. I had to choose a group of world class sportsmen and write about the education they got and how important it is in their field of sport. My chosen sport, as you see, is F1.

I'd like you to ask you, if you know about any (preferably current) F1 driver's educational background (whether they have any certificate, at what age they abandoned their studies, etc), could you please shair the information with me?

Also, I've got a question which has to be included as well:

- Do you think an illiterate person (who can't read and write) could be successful in this particular sport?

I've already written the main body of the essay but I would really appreciate if you could help me with your ideas, thoughts, information, anything, it might be an interesting topic for discussion.

Thanks!

[Mandzipop]

Not really "racing comments", sorry, but I couldn't find a better place.

So, as an assigment for university, I have to write a study about the role of education in sportsmen's careers, the importance of it in sports etc. I had to choose a group of world class sportsmen and write about the education they got and how important it is in their field of sport. My chosen sport, as you see, is F1.

I'd like you to ask you, if you know about any (preferably current) F1 driver's educational background (whether they have any certificate, at what age they abandoned their studies, etc), could you please shair the information with me?

Also, I've got a question which has to be included as well:

- Do you think an illiterate person (who can't read and write) could be successful in this particular sport?

I've already written the main body of the essay but I would really appreciate if you could help me with your ideas, thoughts, information, anything, it might be an interesting topic for discussion.

Thanks!

Nico Rosberg was offered a place at Imperial College, London, to read for a degree in Aeronautics.

[Nonesuch]

Marc Gené graduated (apparently with honours) in Economics at the University of Buckingham.

"We would like to think that the fame of the academic staff here attracted Marc to Buckingham but maybe the location of Silverstone a few miles away also had something to do with it"
- http://www.buckingha...umni/sport.html

Edited by Nonesuch, 05 October 2009 - 21:58.

[Psymon]

Not really "racing comments", sorry, but I couldn't find a better place.

So, as an assigment for university, I have to write a study about the role of education in sportsmen's careers, the importance of it in sports etc. I had to choose a group of world class sportsmen and write about the education they got and how important it is in their field of sport. My chosen sport, as you see, is F1.

I'd like you to ask you, if you know about any (preferably current) F1 driver's educational background (whether they have any certificate, at what age they abandoned their studies, etc), could you please shair the information with me?

Also, I've got a question which has to be included as well:

- Do you think an illiterate person (who can't read and write) could be successful in this particular sport?

I've already written the main body of the essay but I would really appreciate if you could help me with your ideas, thoughts, information, anything, it might be an interesting topic for discussion.

Thanks!

Not a current driver, but Sir Jackie Stewart is dyslexic, though it was not diagnosed till he was 41 years old... He has struggled with reading, and up to the diagnosis he put it and the struggles he had at school etc down to that he simply must just be be stupid. Striving for success, first in shooting, but then in motor racing was a way of overcoming the dyslexia. He does talk about it in his autobiography, which I would say is well worth a read anyway!

Edited by Psymon, 05 October 2009 - 22:05.

[Mandzipop]

Michael Schumacher is a qualified mechanic (mind you so is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, totally unrelated).

[r4mses]

Glock is learnt scaffolder. (de.wiki)

Sutil was on his way to become a professional pianist until he switched to motorsports at 14 (if i'm not mistaken, heard that quite often on TV)

Rosberg's mark in his final secondary-school examinations/university-entrance diploma aka Abitur is 1,2 (which is "quite impressive", German average is about 2,3-2,7) (de.wiki)

[BlackCat]

Fisichella is quite illiterate - if i remember one of his interviews right. and not especially successful.

[ff1600]

Mansell is an Aerospace Engineer
Teo Fabio is an Engineer
Most of the Unser are High School drop outs or just got out of high school
Bobby Rahal college grad in history or lit
Mark Donahue engineer out of Brown Univ

[Juan Kerr]

Not forgetting that money pays for the best education and often over-inflates the natural brains of many rich people. There's massive differences in my local schools let alone when you bring money into it. The 'son's of' are obviously at a big advantage to their fathers.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Fisichella is quite illiterate - if i remember one of his interviews right. and not especially successful.

I'm not sure if he's illiterate, but he's definitely not the most intellectual man around.

[FonzCam]

Here's some info about Lewis from his old college http://www.ceg-uk.co...s/alumni/lewis/
I think JB went to Frome Community college (so continued in non compulsory education from 16-18) but I have no idea about how well he did or what he studied.

Your best bet would be to just head to the library/book store and read the first few chapters of each driver's biography. As a rule even the ones who did well skip over it because the most important thing they were doing aged 16-21 was racing cars I can't think of any off the top of my head who were studying beyond 18 whilst driving. I guess they put in on hold to come back to if their career goes nowhere. It might be worth looking to see if any ex GP2/F1 drivers have gone back to education after their career slumped.

I watched a great Jackie Stewart documentary on Saturday that included some very revealing images of Jackie's handwriting that show the extent of his Dyslexia.

[Pilla]

I'm not sure if he's illiterate, but he's definitely not the most intellectual man around.

I read an interview with him a few years ago where he said that he didn't like to read, nothing about him being illiterate though.

[postajegenye]

Thank you for the replies!

Fisichella is quite illiterate - if i remember one of his interviews right. and not especially successful.

I don't think he's illiterate - he's not the most educated, surely, but it would really surprise me if any of the current drivers was illiterate...

[evo]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't taken a turn for the worse.

I'm not sure what the aim of the assignment is, but it would be interesting to know the educational background of drivers from different eras, where from a gentlemen's race series to a modern, professional era where communication is vital.

Grosjean works/worked at a bank, but I've been trying to find out what role he had before F1 without luck.

[cheapracer]

I don't think he's illiterate - he's not the most educated, surely, but it would really surprise me if any of the current drivers was illiterate...

Why? Are you thinking they need to read the "turn left now" signs or something?

My Mate is 2 x NSW Sports Car Champion, ex Supercar V8 driver amongst others and a top race car builder, out of school at 13 and can't read or write for **** and actually has to spell out big words aloud.

[postajegenye]

Why? Are you thinking they need to read the "turn left now" signs or something?

Because in the countries where the drivers come from, illiteracy rate is very, very low, basic education is compulsory and I don't think there's one driver today who didn't study at all... by illiteracy, I mean that they really can't read / write.

[philhitchings]

thanks for starting the topic. this is interesting.

[Simon Says]

Not really "racing comments", sorry, but I couldn't find a better place.

So, as an assigment for university, I have to write a study about the role of education in sportsmen's careers, the importance of it in sports etc. I had to choose a group of world class sportsmen and write about the education they got and how important it is in their field of sport. My chosen sport, as you see, is F1.

I'd like you to ask you, if you know about any (preferably current) F1 driver's educational background (whether they have any certificate, at what age they abandoned their studies, etc), could you please shair the information with me?

Also, I've got a question which has to be included as well:

- Do you think an illiterate person (who can't read and write) could be successful in this particular sport?

I've already written the main body of the essay but I would really appreciate if you could help me with your ideas, thoughts, information, anything, it might be an interesting topic for discussion.

Thanks!

I believe Zonta was well educated, he gave up his job to be a full time F1 driver. Grosjean works for a bank, not sure what his education is, but it's probably something good. Good luck with your assignment

Edited by Simon Says, 06 October 2009 - 06:05.

[Simon Says]

Jim Clark was an engineer right? Maybe do some research on him too

[cheapracer]

Because in the countries where the drivers come from, illiteracy rate is very, very low, basic education is compulsory and I don't think there's one driver today who didn't study at all... by illiteracy, I mean that they really can't read / write.

B/S - you've made a standard to prove your own argument and not one of the real World.

http://en.wikipedia....racy#Prevalence - especially the last paragraph, you can read can't you? I mean as in actually understand.....

[jcbc3]

Why so confrontational, cheapracer?

[Galko877]

It's intelligence that matters (which is inborn) not how literate or illiterate a driver is. Somebody who knows all of Shakespeare's works by heart can be considered as literate, yet that won't make him a good F1 driver. And you can be intelligent without being literate or well-educated. It's a natural ability.

[Arion]

- Do you think an illiterate person (who can't read and write) could be successful in this particular sport?

Being good at numbers/data is probably more important than being able to read in this sport.

[Vitesse2]

Jim Clark was an engineer right?

Wrong.

Jim's destiny - had he lived - would have been to take over the family farm. He attended Loretto, a leading Scottish public (ie fee-paying) school, but I don't think he distinguished himself academically. But that's not to say he was stupid either: had his racing career not taken off, he would no doubt have gone to agricultural college.

[crashgate]

Mansell is an Aerospace Engineer
Teo Fabio is an Engineer
Most of the Unser are High School drop outs or just got out of high school
Bobby Rahal college grad in history or lit
Mark Donahue engineer out of Brown Univ

BS, Mansell is a cop, some say he is publician

but aerospace engineer WTF cant be. hes dumm

[crashgate]

Because in the countries where the drivers come from, illiteracy rate is very, very low, basic education is compulsory and I don't think there's one driver today who didn't study at all... by illiteracy, I mean that they really can't read / write.

Brazil (bunch of them), Columbia (monty) not really educational oasis

[ForeverF1]

BS, Mansell is a cop, some say he is publician

but aerospace engineer WTF cant be. hes dumm

Mansell had a fairly slow start to his racing career, using his own money to help work his way up the ranks. After considerable success in kart racing, he moved to the Formula Ford series to the disapproval of his father. In 1976, Mansell won 6 of the 9 races he took part in, including his debut event at Mallory Park. He entered 42 races the following year and won 33 to become the 1977 British Formula Ford champion, despite suffering a broken neck in a qualifying session at Brands Hatch. Doctors told him he had been perilously close to quadriplegia, that he would be confined for six months and would never drive again. Mansell discharged himself from the hospital and returned to racing. Three weeks before the accident he had resigned his job as an aerospace engineer, having previously sold most of his personal belongings to finance his foray into Formula Ford.^[4] Later that year he was given the chance to race a Lola T570 Formula 3 car at Silverstone. He finished fourth and decided that he was ready to move into the higher formula.^{http://en.wikipedia....ll_Statistics-4}

Not so dumb as you think.;)

Edit: Or, maybe he is dumb for continuing to drive/race with a broken neck.

Edited by ForeverF1, 06 October 2009 - 09:30.

[slideways]

I think it's important to remember nearly all of the current F1 drivers are from wealthy families, which means access to private institutions, personal tutors etc.

If for example you picked the top 20 marathon runners I think you would have a much different picture.

[crashgate]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't taken a turn for the worse.

why? autosport users have fine reputation. Civilized discussion is what is expected around here

[Sydark]

Is this a good time to mention Mark Blundell?

[potmotr]

Mansell is an engineer, he was a voluteer cop on the Isle of Mann.

Grosjean still works in a bank.

Pedro de la Rosa used to work in PriceWaterhouseCooper apparently so must be good with the numbers.

Martin Brundle sold cars, so did lots of others including Derek Warwick.

Edited by potmotr, 06 October 2009 - 10:49.

[Jackmancer]

Some old quote from a team after their driver had crashed really hard:
"We send him to the hospital to search for brain damage but they found nothing."

[Sunflower]

It's intelligence that matters (which is inborn) not how literate or illiterate a driver is. Somebody who knows all of Shakespeare's works by heart can be considered as literate, yet that won't make him a good F1 driver. And you can be intelligent without being literate or well-educated. It's a natural ability.

I thought he was a qaulified mechanic?

[Gilles4Ever]

Please keep this discussion about drivers and their education.

[Beamer]

I think it's important to remember nearly all of the current F1 drivers are from wealthy families, which means access to private institutions, personal tutors etc.

If for example you picked the top 20 marathon runners I think you would have a much different picture.

I remember reading that the Raikonnen's weren't that wealthy (can't find it anymore though). Neither were the Hamilton's.

[highdownforce]

Brazil (bunch of them), Columbia (monty) not really educational oasis

But unfortunately, only those who can pay for a oversea education (be at Europe, be at USA) can provide a career (to their sons and daughters) that can lead to F1.
See the Piquets case for example.

[FonzCam]

I think the problem with discussing F1 driver's education is that they were all racing whilst at school and almost none have gone on to university. From personal experience I know that some people who do well at school underachieve at university and others who struggled as children mature and excel at higher levels of education. I might be worth looking at the education and training F1 drivers get once they are in a driver development programme, testing for a team and once they are F1 drivers. There are driver coaches and the teams put potential drivers through rigorous tests to assess their mental abilities (I think Nico has the high score at Williams). I've also seen a video somewhere I believe it was of Hulkenberg who I believe is doing an apprenticeship of sorts working in each of the departments of the factory (in the video he was making carbon fiber parts).

I think the argument about how 'smart' you need to be and what skills you need/dont need to be able to master is a much more interesting then what 'education' you have.

[hay!]

I'm thinking DR Jonathan Palmer

[BlackCat]

another interesting question could be - have they gone through military service? it's organized differently in different countries, being a world class sportsman can free you from it and so on, but still... iirc Kimi has done it as its a thing of honour in Finland, so he can act as a squad commander if needed. or if he chooses so - and i think it has been his choice to NOT act as a sergeant with Ferrari mechanics...

[crashgate]

I'm thinking DR Jonathan Palmer

and doctor Jack Miller, a racing dentist

[F3000man]

Just brainstorming a little bit:

Didier Pironi and Graham Hill were both engineers, as well as Jean-Pierre Jabouille, who was one of the developers of the first Renault F1 cars.

Romain Grosjean graduated in Engineering.

Frenchmen Sebastien Bourdais (who else could be...) and Nicolas Lapierre are both graduated in Mathematics and Computing Science.

Ayrton Senna attended some classes of Management but he didn't finish the course.

Nelson Piquet enrolled in a Journalism course. Or Philosophy? Don't remember now. But he couldn't complete it anyway.

Massimiliano Papis is graduated in Political Sciences. He is able, moreover, to speak in many languages. In CART times he used to talk with Brack in Swedish!

Giuseppe Farina was a lawyer.

Ferdinando Monfardini is an economist.

Giovanni Lavaggi was a mechanical engineer.

OK, that's it so far.

[Galka]

I think it's important to remember nearly all of the current F1 drivers are from wealthy families, which means access to private institutions, personal tutors etc.

If for example you picked the top 20 marathon runners I think you would have a much different picture.

Absolutely contrary.

There's a number of "legacy drivers" whose fathers were connected with racing: Rosberg, Nakadjima, Button, Bourdais, Piquet. Their families ranged from wealthy (Rosberg, Nakadjima, Piquet) to middle-class (Button, Bourdais).
And there are drivers whose families had nothing to do with racing, and they range from working class to middle class: Kubica (father was a physician, mother a school teacher), Raikkonen (father was a construction worker), Mark Webber (father was a motorcycle shop owner), Lewis Hamilton (father had various jobs connected with IT), Fernando Alonso (father was a factory mechanic who was promoted later), Sutil (father was a pianist).
Massa's family is quite wealthy: Massa's father is an important civil servant connected with architectural development and the family has a villa.

And about some retired drivers: Schumacher's dad was a factory worker and Hakkinen's dad was a postman and a club bouncer.

I think this point is connected with education since not all families can afford to send their children to college or university.

Alonso received education as car mechanic, so did Raikkonen, but Raikkonen didn't finish since he went to do karting in the UK.

Edited by Galka, 06 October 2009 - 15:08.

[highdownforce]

Absolutely contrary.

There's a number of "legacy drivers" whose fathers were connected with racing: Rosberg, Nakadjima, Button, Bourdais, Piquet. Their families ranged from wealthy (Rosberg, Nakadjima, Piquet) to middle-class (Button, Bourdais).
And there are drivers whose families had nothing to do with racing, and they range from working class to middle class: Kubica (father was a physician, mother a school teacher), Raikkonen (father was a construction worker), Mark Webber (father was a motorcycle shop owner), Lewis Hamilton (father had various jobs connected with IT), Fernando Alonso (father was a factory mechanic who was promoted later), Sutil (father was a pianist).
Massa's family is quite wealthy: Massa's father is an important civil servant connected with architectural development and the family has a villa.

And about some retired drivers: Schumacher's dad was a factory worker and Hakkinen's dad was a postman and a club bouncer.

I think this point is connected with education since not all families can afford to send their children to college or university.

Alonso received education as car mechanic, so did Raikkonen, but Raikkonen didn't finish since he went to do karting in the UK.

How about the current field, what is the trend?

[potmotr]

The drivers now start so young that they barely finish high school before they're in GP2.

I think back in the day drivers were generally a touch older entering F1 so had an alternative career planned.

[Galka]

How about the current field, what is the trend?

What do you mean by "current field"?
I wrote that post about current drivers and mentioned 2/3 of them.

Guys from middle class and working class clearly prevail over guys from wealthy families.
Formula 1 is no longer the entertainment for kid from the jet set.

Edited by Galka, 06 October 2009 - 15:31.

[Kooper]

Ryan Newman has a BS in Vehicle Structure Engineering from Purdue. According to this he is the only active NASCAR driver with a college education.
The late Alan Kulwicki ('92 Cup Champion) had a Mechanical Engineering degree.

[potmotr]

I read somewhere that Nico Hulkenberg has continued to study despite his full racing calender.

He also worked in the Williams factory's fabrication shop this summer.

[F3000man]

Absolutely contrary.

There's a number of "legacy drivers" whose fathers were connected with racing: Rosberg, Nakadjima, Button, Bourdais, Piquet. Their families ranged from wealthy (Rosberg, Nakadjima, Piquet) to middle-class (Button, Bourdais).
And there are drivers whose families had nothing to do with racing, and they range from working class to middle class: Kubica (father was a physician, mother a school teacher), Raikkonen (father was a construction worker), Mark Webber (father was a motorcycle shop owner), Lewis Hamilton (father had various jobs connected with IT), Fernando Alonso (father was a factory mechanic who was promoted later), Sutil (father was a pianist).
Massa's family is quite wealthy: Massa's father is an important civil servant connected with architectural development and the family has a villa.

And about some retired drivers: Schumacher's dad was a factory worker and Hakkinen's dad was a postman and a club bouncer.

I think this point is connected with education since not all families can afford to send their children to college or university.

Alonso received education as car mechanic, so did Raikkonen, but Raikkonen didn't finish since he went to do karting in the UK.

Rubens Barrichello's father owned a building material shop. He used to live near Interlagos, which is a region of middle to working class people.

Romain Grosjean's father works as a lawyer for Renault. That explains a lot for me.

I guess Nick Heidfeld, Heikki Kovalainen and Jarno Trulli came also from middle class families.

And few people know, but former Pacific driver Andrea Montermini was one of the poorest drivers in this modern Formula One, having been a craftsman before racing.

[dts9624]

from the top of my memory, the Finns...

Mika Häkkinen, vocational school (Plate Welder, apparently never worked as one for a day in his life)
Mika Salo, vocational school (Electrician)
Kimi Räikkönen, vocational school (Car mechanic)
Heikki Kovalainen and Keke Rosberg - High school undergraduates.

No clue on JJ Lehto's education.

[Galka]

And few people know, but former Pacific driver Andrea Montermini was one of the poorest drivers in this modern Formula One, having been a craftsman before racing.

Thanks, that was interesting.

Juan Manuel Fangio comes from a family of construction workers and he worked at a building site himself as a teenager.
Obviously, no university education.

And Mark Webber worked as a driving instructor. He also didn't have a college degree.