62 replies to this topic

[Raimi]

I am from Graz, hometown of Jochen. I know that Jochen raced at INDY 500 in the years 1967 and 1968. I have some nice photos of that time. But now someone told me he was also there in 1969. I want to make a picture page about Rindt at INDY 500. Does someone knows something about this rumor? Does anyone have a scan of Rindt at INDY 500 for my homepage?
Raimi
web: www.fortunecity.de/olympia/maradona/143

[Ray Bell]

Anyone remember which year he drove the Brabham with the 4.2 quad cam Repco engine?
I recall stories at the time said he was pretty wild on the banking in that car...

------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Eagle104]

Raimi: Jochen's '69/Indy Team Lotus
was withdrawn after Mario's bad crash
in practice. So, he tested but DNQ.

He drove Dan's "Gurney-Weslake"
305ci., in '67 (the only stock-based
engine that year <thanks Karl> ) but
DNF.

It was '68 when he drove the Brabham.
DNF at 5laps with a broken piston.

[Xaxor]

The only tidbit regarding Rindt at Indy that I remember is the humiliation he suffered when being put thru the compulsary rookie test. Furthermore, the Indy bosses also took exception to Rindt's two-piece driving suit and demanded that he switch to a single-piece. This would have been OK, as Rindt said, except that they went too far when they tried to physically ripp it off of him!

[Ray Bell]

The 1968 qualifying is where he showed his ability to drive round the bankings sideways - I think they had some trouble getting the car sorted and it was a last ditch effort to get on the back of the grid.

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Dave Ware]

Here are some links that discuss Rindt's efforts at the 500:
http://www.speedking...gi-bin/htsearch

As previously posted, he did not start in 1969.

I remember reading, a long time ago, about a practice spin that Rindt had at the speedway. He either didn't hit anything or hit the wall very softly...they insisted on taking him for a medical checkup anyway. They made him ride in the ambulance. He thought the whole thing was silly because he was fine. At one point he got out of the ambulance and opened a gate so the the ambulance could proceed. When he got to medical they found that his heart rate was normal.

I might have a couple of books at home I could look at for photos. Give me at least several days.

Dave

[Martyj]

I was at Indy for Qualifications with my Dad in 1969. (It was the second weekend of Qualifying. The first one was rained out). Though it's true Chapman withdrew the 2 lotuses for Hill and Rindt after Andretti's crash, I very vividly remember both Rindt and Hill doing runs in the morning practice session prior to qualifying. The day-glo red/orange STP livery was similar to the wedge shaped lotus turbine that ran the year before. Rindt did a lazy, half spin to a halt right in front of us in the first turn. Perhaps they were checking the lotuses to see if they were okay after Mario's wreck. My memory is very clear on this because as an excitable 11 year old boy, the main reason I went to the track in those days was to see wrecks (sad but true). It stuck in my memory because it was one of two mishaps we saw that day.

By the way, this is my first post. I'll head over to the introduction thread one of these days

[Dennis David]

This is my favorite Rindt picture:



I know of one or two included in Team Lotus - The Indianapolis Years by Andrew Ferguson

I'll scan them if I have a chance, got to go to NJ next week for work. :-(

------------------
Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Ray Bell]

Isn't that a BRM he's sitting on? And look at that big strong roll hoop!

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Life and love are mixed with pain...

[Dennis David]

That should protect him!

------------------
Regards,

Dennis David
Yahoo = dennis_a_david

Life is racing, the rest is waiting

Grand Prix History
www.ddavid.com/formula1/

[Ray Bell]

Somebody else, maybe, he never drove a BRM

------------------
Life and love are mixed with pain...

[island]

Hi,
Andrew Ferguson writes in his book "Team Lotus.The Indianapolis Years" that Rindt
practised a Lotus 64 (chassis no.3) on May
21,1969. "He managed 12 laps, his fastest
a sniff under 145 mph", Ferguson continues.
On the same day Andretti`s no.1 had the hub
failure which put an end to the Lotus 64
program.

[Raimi]

Many thanks to all for your informations!
You can see pictures of Jochens start 1967 and 1968 at: www.fortunecity.de/olympia/maradona/143/rindt/rindt.html
At last two photos from 1968 he is sitting not in the car#35, why this? The dealer said, the shots are from 1968!

Dennis, I can`t see your favorite Rindt picture in the moment.
Martyi, do you know no picture of Rindt in the red/orange STP?

Thanks to all,
Raimi

[Gerr]

Hi Raimi,
In 1967 at Indy,Rindt was the nominated driver for the "Pacesetter Homes Eagle"
(DOHC Ford,Car #88)entry. This was the
car he used for his rookie test and in
practise before totalling it in the south
west corner. Then he qualified the "Friedkin
Enterprises Eagle"(DOHC Ford,Car #87) at
162.389 mph but was bumped by Jackie Stewart.
Because a bumped car cannot requalify, Rindt
took over Gurney's spare,the "Wagner-
Lockheed Eagle"(303 Weslake-Ford,Car #48)
that he qualified at 163.051 mph for 32nd
place.
The odd photos on your page that you were told were from '68 are from '67. That is the
"Friedkin" Eagle,number 87.
In 1968(Mister Bell is correct)Rindt had a wild ride in qualifying. Because he had to get to Monaco,Rindt pushed the Brabham to a
164.144 average on a wet track! He was the only qualifier that Sunday.
Regarding Mister David's photo:
I think that shot is from Monaco in 1965,where Rindt learned that he would not be able to start. Even though he was faster than the Hondas, they had guaranteed starting status.
Rindt did drive a Brabham-BRM at Zeltweg in 1964 for Rob Walker.
Regarding the Ferguson book:
There is colour photo of Rindt in the Lotus 64 on page 120.
Rindt did a total of 58 practice laps in the 64,his best speed 154.9 mph.

[Don Capps]

In the photo, that is an ersatz "Jordan-BRM" and the helmet is Stewart's and the scene is Monte Carlo and the year is 1966...care to cipher the rest?

------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

Semper Gumbi: If this was easy, we’d have the solution already…

[Jerry Entin]

Bob McKee and Jochen Rindt and Skip Hudson at Indy.

[RStock]

Originally posted by Don Capps
[B]In the photo, that is an ersatz "Jordan-BRM" and the helmet is Stewart's and the scene is Monte Carlo and the year is 1966...care to cipher the rest?

I believe that was during filming of the movie "Grand Prix" . Jochen was doubling in the car for Brian Bedford 's charachter Scott Stoddard . I remember James Garner saying Bedford was hopeless at driving the cars . And I recall his story about leading Jochen around at Monaco .

[Pedro 917]

Here's a picture of Jochen in Dan Gurney's spare Wagner Lockheed Eagle, 1967 :


Copyright E. Peter

[T54]

I believe that was during filming of the movie "Grand Prix" . Jochen was doubling in the car for Brian Bedford 's charachter Scott Stoddard . I remember James Garner saying Bedford was hopeless at driving the cars .

Indeed, the "BRM" is in fact one of the former Lotus 18's of the Knight brothers's driving school in Magny Cours... lots of memories.
The beautiful pale blue Brabham with the 4-cam, 4-liter Repco engine driven by Jochen at Indy is now at the Donington museum. As far as I know it is the only intact survivor of the three chassis built by the Brabham Racing Organisation for that race. At least one of the cars ran as late as 1972 at the speedway.

[fines]

I believe there were only two Indy Repco-Brabhams (three if you include the Offy-engined 1964 car), but if you know the individual histories you're most welcome to divulge your knowledge!

[T54]

Michael,
Besides the red 1964 BT12 of which only one was built (a tube framed Offy powered car that now I believe, resides in Australia and was shown and run at Jack's celebration at Goodwood in 2004), BRO built three monocoque chassis for the 1968 Indy 500. Two were powered by the 4-cam Repco 4-liter engines, one was a spare chassis that never got a motor in it until later. Both Jack and Rindt as well as Revson drove these cars in 1968 to 1970. Two were sold to American drivers/teams who used them with added aero until 1972 with less than more success, while the one at Donington was possibly the spare unused chassis.
I will consult my Indy year books to sort this out, if possible later today.
Here is a pic of Jack with one of the already heavily modified 1968 chassis in 1970:



Picture courtesy Weismann

By that time the useless Repco 4-cam had been dumped for the turbo Offy that was really the only competitive power plant.

Now from your own discussion on this very forum in 2002:

BT25 or BT25A (which is correct?) : two built in 1968 for MRD works team with 4.2 Repco-Brabham engine, and raced through 1969. One entered as backup at Indy in 1970, but not used. Then, possibly, one fitted with Chevrolet stock-block for Bill Simpson, and one with turbocharged Offy for Patrick-Michner team?

BT32: one built in 1970 for MRD works team with turbocharged Offy engine, used by Black Jack at Indy and Yarbrough at Ontario, then, possibly, in 1971 to Agajanian-Faas and subsequently to John Martin?

The BT25 and BT32 are basically the same chassis with upgrades. But there were THREE BT25 built, not two.
Regards,

T54

[fines]

Well, that would probably then mean the BT32 was the spare BT25 chassis? As for the car histories, I haven't looked into this lately (well, since 2002 basically), but I recall it gave me many a headache back then...

[T54]

It is possible that the BT32 would have been the spare 25 rebuilt for the Offy. I have pics of it from the Indy Year Books trying to qualify all the way to 1972.
Unfortunately, Jack does not remember exactly what was what nowadays, but a bit of research should prove not too difficult to sort out the 3 cars.

[RA Historian]

Jochen Rindt gave me quite a chuckle way back when. When Rindt raced Indy there was just the radio coverage, not live TV. The announcers were then, and arguably still are, quite over the top with the effusive blathering about the 'greatest spectacle in racing". Whenever a driver would drop out of the race, an announcer would rush up, shove the microphone in his face and ask a bunch of dumb questions. The last question was the same, time after time. "Well, tough luck, but will we see you back next year?"

In either 1968 or 69 Rindt dropped out and was subjected to the usual drivel questions. When asked the above question about next year, his response was brief and eloquent:

"No."

This of course was against the accepted line, and the announcer sputtered as Rindt apparently turned on his heel and walked away!

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by RA Historian
Jochen Rindt gave me quite a chuckle way back when. When Rindt raced Indy there was just the radio coverage, not live TV. The announcers were then, and arguably still are, quite over the top with the effusive blathering about the 'greatest spectacle in racing". Whenever a driver would drop out of the race, an announcer would rush up, shove the microphone in his face and ask a bunch of dumb questions. The last question was the same, time after time. "Well, tough luck, but will we see you back next year?"

In either 1968 or 69 Rindt dropped out and was subjected to the usual drivel questions. When asked the above question about next year, his response was brief and eloquent:

"No."

This of course was against the accepted line, and the announcer sputtered as Rindt apparently turned on his heel and walked away!

Maybe this has something to do with the fact that Rindt wasn't impressed about Indy.
On one of the Heinz Prüller Booksöf the "Grand Prix Story" series it's printed that Rindt had said something like that Indy was nothing special but two straights and four turns only.

I don't know if it also meant that the place didn't scare him ar gave him any reasons to respect it.

Henri

[ensign14]

There was a story that, after wrecking in practice, he was ushered into the ambulance as a precaution, they checked his pulse and it was already back down to 71 or something - Rindt must have been totally ice-cool.

[RA Historian]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter
Maybe this has something to do with the fact that Rindt wasn't impressed about Indy.
On one of the Heinz Prüller Booksöf the "Grand Prix Story" series it's printed that Rindt had said something like that Indy was nothing special but two straights and four turns only.

I don't know if it also meant that the place didn't scare him ar gave him any reasons to respect it.

Henri

Henri, I remember it just that way. I recall reading after the event that Rindt simply did not like it, thought it was dull and uninteresting compared to Spa, Clermont-Ferrand, etc.

[Russ Snyder]

I think it is interesting to note that some of the fabulous F1 drivers in history (Rindt, Nuvolari, Fitch...to name but a few) had many many many troubles with racing at Indy.

If it was the track, cars, whatever various reasons...they had troubles.

John Fitch could only obtain 129 mph in his test circa 1952...whereas former 1949 champ Bill Holland took the same car and averaged 137/138.

Tazio Nuvolari, after being impressed by Rex Mays finishing 3rd in the 1937 vandy cup on Long Island with just a stock Alfa, came to Indy and could not make speed. He was withdrawn from the 1938 qualifications.

J Rindt falls into that category. A master at F1...an alsoran at Indy.

I think in terms of cross over from F1 to Indy, Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi did the best. Very few have accomplished dominace in both....which makes their feats all the more remarkable.

Nice thread/discussion btw

[ensign14]

Chris Amon as well, didn't he get spooked by the concrete and was mentally inhibited?

[Jerry Entin]

Russ: Jackie Stewart did very well in his try there. He almost won it the first time there. Richie Ginther or Bruce McLaren where no fans of Oval racing. Even though you are given a full month to get ready for the race, Formula One driver had no experience that would prepare them for high speed oval racing under competition fuel loads and situations. There is no racing formula that allows someone with no experience in their type of racing to step into their biggest event. I know NASCAR has left people race at Daytona in the past. With hardly any experience in their type racing.

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Russ: Jackie Stewart did very well in his try there. He almost won it the first time there. Richie Ginther or Bruce McLaren where no fans of Oval racing. Even though you are given a full month to get ready for the race, Formula One driver had no experience that would prepare them for high speed oval racing under competition fuel loads and situations. There is no racing formula that allows someone with no experience in their type of racing to step into their biggest event. I know NASCAR has left people race at Daytona in the past. With hardly any experience in their type racing.

Jerry - no question about J Stewart and ....(I may be wrong here, 1950's Indy races as examples? they counted toward F1 )... but the F1 boys have not had an Oval race really count since the Berlin AVUS in the 30's. Astonishing that Rosemeyer, Lang, Carraciola, Nuvolari, et al were able to go 180-190 mph in those 1937-38 races...

I have recently been digging for info about Alberto Ascari's 1952 run at Indy and I have come to this conclusion; Had he not broken a wire wheel on his stock 12 cyl Ferrari on lap 40, causing a harmless spin in the 4th turn, he might have won that race. He started 17th, was up to 8th on that 40th lap whilst doing an average of 128.30 mph. Eventual winner Troy Ruttman did 128.60 mph. It was a darn shame that he had to withdraw from the 1953 race. His relationship with Ferrari ceased around that time, he went to Lancia, and the possible duel between him and Bill Vuckovich in 1953.... remains a big "what if" in my mind.

Finally, the comment J Rindt made about Indy says it all really. Different strokes for different folks.

[Collombin]

Originally posted by Russ Snyder Tazio Nuvolari, after being impressed by Rex Mays finishing 3rd in the 1937 vandy cup on Long Island with just a stock Alfa, came to Indy and could not make speed. B]

My understanding is that he never even made it out of the pits!

[fines]

Ascari's spin certainly wasn't harmless, no spin at Indy ever is! But I agree, he's overlooked here, even if I think he was hardly a candidate for the win - that Ferrari didn't cut the mustard, Ascari was doing very well despite the car!

It was clear Ferrari needed something special in '53, and that wasn't forthcoming, so Ascari stayed home. BUT: he had an offer to drive the Ernie Ruiz roadster, a car very similar to Vukie's, so differences with Ferrari can hardly have been a reason for him to stay away, actually the very opposite: he couldn't go because he still had a valid (and valued) contract!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Russ Snyder
.....J Rindt falls into that category. A master at F1... an alsoran at Indy.....

Not according to those watching him qualifying in the Brabham!

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by Russ Snyder
I think it is interesting to note that some of the fabulous F1 drivers in history (Rindt, Nuvolari, Fitch...to name but a few) had many many many troubles with racing at Indy.

If it was the track, cars, whatever various reasons...they had troubles.


Tazio Nuvolari, after being impressed by Rex Mays finishing 3rd in the 1937 vandy cup on Long Island with just a stock Alfa, came to Indy and could not make speed. He was withdrawn from the 1938 qualifications.



Nice thread/discussion btw

As for Nuvolari:

He was supposed to race an Alfa in 1938 but that car was lost in a fire in a European event before May already. He showed up late in May with a few days to co before the race and still appeared to have asked a retainer that scared the car owners who had unqualified cars available.

As for his respect for the track and the cars.
Lew Welch had him in his qualified car for a few laps (car being a 1935 Miller-Ford chassis with frontdrive with Offy engine.) When Tazio left the pitt lane he took off like a rocket as he was used to, instantly ruining the fragile gearbox of the FWD Miller, the car coming to a rest a few meteres further. He stepped out and didn't say a thing to Lew Welch and or the team members.

You had to leave the pitt with care in an FWD car, the gearboxres of the FWD millers were very fragile, yet reliable enough when treated with care.

( Source: Donald Davidson & Rick Shaffer Autocourse History of the Indy 500.)

Henri

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Not according to those watching him qualifying in the Brabham!

Ray - I'm going by his results at Indy...nothing more, nothing less.

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by fines
Ascari's spin certainly wasn't harmless, no spin at Indy ever is! But I agree, he's overlooked here, even if I think he was hardly a candidate for the win - that Ferrari didn't cut the mustard, Ascari was doing very well despite the car!

It was clear Ferrari needed something special in '53, and that wasn't forthcoming, so Ascari stayed home. BUT: he had an offer to drive the Ernie Ruiz roadster, a car very similar to Vukie's, so differences with Ferrari can hardly have been a reason for him to stay away, actually the very opposite: he couldn't go because he still had a valid (and valued) contract!

Fines - I called it "harmless" because no one else was involved and Alberto was in good shape afterwards. Agree tho, no spin at Indy doing 130-140 mph is harmless.

As far as Ascari winning? Vuky was going to win that race if not for faulty steering gods on lap 191. Seeing Ascari move in the field with an underperforming ferrari from 17th to 8th is very impressive indeed...and i just wish he had come back for more Indy races.

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter



As for Nuvolari:

He was supposed to race an Alfa in 1938 but that car was lost in a fire in a European event before May already. He showed up late in May with a few days to co before the race and still appeared to have asked a retainer that scared the car owners who had unqualified cars available.

As for his respect for the track and the cars.
Lew Welch had him in his qualified car for a few laps (car being a 1935 Miller-Ford chassis with frontdrive with Offy engine.) When Tazio left the pitt lane he took off like a rocket as he was used to, instantly ruining the fragile gearbox of the FWD Miller, the car coming to a rest a few meteres further. He stepped out and didn't say a thing to Lew Welch and or the team members.

You had to leave the pitt with care in an FWD car, the gearboxres of the FWD millers were very fragile, yet reliable enough when treated with care.

( Source: Donald Davidson & Rick Shaffer Autocourse History of the Indy 500.)

Henri

Thanks Henri - the internet is a great sharing community. I knew Nuvolari couldn't make speed (jack fox 66 edition) just not the particulars of why! The jack fox book lists the Alpha as withdrawn btw. Its always nice to find out the reasons why it was withdrawn . Many thanks again.

btw - Whats your take on Ascari's 1952 Indy run?

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by Russ Snyder


Thanks Henri - the internet is a great sharing community. I knew Nuvolari couldn't make speed (jack fox 66 edition) just not the particulars of why! The jack fox book lists the Alpha as withdrawn btw. Its always nice to find out the reasons why it was withdrawn . Many thanks again.

btw - Whats your take on Ascari's 1952 Indy run?

My opinion on Ascari at Indy in '52?

Skillfull driver who could have done much better had he been in an American car instead of a Ferrari.
Maybe that Ferrari 375 had plenty of power comared with the atmo Offies it competed against. But it lacked the torque that the Offy had and which made Offy powered cars accelerate like hell on the straights
It was an F1 chassis, not an oval racing car.

The following is theoretical thinking with my thinking cap on.
I have no figures but I also have the feeling that the Ferrari with its V12 was more heavy than the majority of the Offenhauser powered cars and therefore didn't handle good enough in the high speed corners.

Ascari excelled in F1 in '52 and 53 when he had the best car at his disposal and used it perfectly. But the 375 was too less of a suitable car for Indy to do him any justice over there.

Henri

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter



My opinion on Ascari at Indy in '52?

Skillfull driver who could have done much better had he been in an American car instead of a Ferrari.
Maybe that Ferrari 375 had plenty of power comared with the atmo Offies it competed against. But it lacked the torque that the Offy had and which made Offy powered cars accelerate like hell on the straights
It was an F1 chassis, not an oval racing car.

The following is theoretical thinking with my thinking cap on.
I have no figures but I also have the feeling that the Ferrari with its V12 was more heavy than the majority of the Offenhauser powered cars and therefore didn't handle good enough in the high speed corners.

Ascari excelled in F1 in '52 and 53 when he had the best car at his disposal and used it perfectly. But the 375 was too less of a suitable car for Indy to do him any justice over there.

Henri

I liken Ascari's Ferrari to the Novi's at the time. Both very heavy with high speeds on the straights, but not as good performing in the corners as those basically souped up midget/Dirt track Offy's.


I think Ascari @ Indy is one of those major "what if's" we have in this great sport...just like Rex Mays competing in F1. Rex was a fabulous driver.

[T54]

One of the biggest problems that both the Novi and the Ferrari as well as other such fitted cars, were their wire wheels. The people in charge did not identify at the time that the wheels were flexing like mad from the swashplate effect. Some were smarter and went to one-piece sand-cast magnesium wheels that had a lot more inherent rigidity.
Interestingly a similar problem happened with Speedline and Gotti modular wheels in the late 1970's and early 1980's in F1, where the enormous down force and ensuing cornering force generated by the ground-effect cars twisted the cr*p out of those (too) lightweight wheels, causing stress cracks in the inner rim sections and losing to sure-win grand prix to Ligier when the rims leaked through the cracks and the tires went... flat.

T54

[indy500autographs]

Originally posted by RA Historian
Jochen Rindt gave me quite a chuckle way back when. When Rindt raced Indy there was just the radio coverage, not live TV. The announcers were then, and arguably still are, quite over the top with the effusive blathering about the 'greatest spectacle in racing". Whenever a driver would drop out of the race, an announcer would rush up, shove the microphone in his face and ask a bunch of dumb questions. The last question was the same, time after time. "Well, tough luck, but will we see you back next year?"

In either 1968 or 69 Rindt dropped out and was subjected to the usual drivel questions. When asked the above question about next year, his response was brief and eloquent:

"No."

This of course was against the accepted line, and the announcer sputtered as Rindt apparently turned on his heel and walked away!

Yeah, I believe it was Luke Walton in 1967,

"Did you enjoy your first 500?"

"Not really"

"Will we see you back next year?"

"No"

Rindt really disliked Indy, one thing he and I are at odds about.

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter



As for Nuvolari:

He was supposed to race an Alfa in 1938 but that car was lost in a fire in a European event before May already. He showed up late in May with a few days to co before the race and still appeared to have asked a retainer that scared the car owners who had unqualified cars available.

As for his respect for the track and the cars.
Lew Welch had him in his qualified car for a few laps (car being a 1935 Miller-Ford chassis with frontdrive with Offy engine.) When Tazio left the pitt lane he took off like a rocket as he was used to, instantly ruining the fragile gearbox of the FWD Miller, the car coming to a rest a few meteres further. He stepped out and didn't say a thing to Lew Welch and or the team members.

You had to leave the pitt with care in an FWD car, the gearboxres of the FWD millers were very fragile, yet reliable enough when treated with care.

( Source: Donald Davidson & Rick Shaffer Autocourse History of the Indy 500.)

Henri

Henri - I have thought about this over these few days, ie Nuvolari's odd sojurn @ INDY 1938, and have come to this conclusion; he was one of the very best GP drivers of his day, if not the best (!), and might have been a tad embarrassed/angry at blowing the car so quickly out of the gate. Do we know if Lew Welch/pit crew instructed him on the dynamics of the car he was about to attempt to drive??? Or did he just jump in and take off?

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by Russ Snyder


Henri - I have thought about this over these few days, ie Nuvolari's odd sojurn @ INDY 1938, and have come to this conclusion; he was one of the very best GP drivers of his day, if not the best (!), and might have been a tad embarrassed/angry at blowing the car so quickly out of the gate. Do we know if Lew Welch/pit crew instructed him on the dynamics of the car he was about to attempt to drive??? Or did he just jump in and take off?

I don't know.
Did Nuvolari speak English?

Lew Welch his Indy efforts pre 1941 have not gained as mich ink as the year after 1941.


Henri

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter



I don't know.
Did Nuvolari speak English?

Lew Welch his Indy efforts pre 1941 have not gained as mich ink as the year after 1941.


Henri

LOL

it makes the whole story even more odd if possible, yes?

No one spoke Italian in Indiana circa 1938? ;-)

My understanding is that Nuvolari was impressed with The INDY boys racing abilities (Rex Mays in particular,as the story goes) from the 1936-37 Vanderbilt cups....and went too see and compete against them on their own soil. His Alpha that did not make it over in 38, may have made him a contender, we will never know.

Thanks for the replies.

One of my younger cousins this past weekend Easter asked me "What 5 people, living or dead, would u want to meet?"...my first reply was Rex Mays...then Wilbur Shaw, Eddie Sachs, Bill Vuckovich SR and Ted Horn. My late Dad met all of these fine drivers, and spoke nothing but glowing praise about them.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter

Did Nuvolari speak English?

Henri

No. Nor German, which must have made his time at Auto Union interesting!

An article by Tony Kaye on Nuvolari's exploits in America is promised for the May 2008 issue of the British magazine "The Automobile".

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

No. Nor German, which must have made his time at Auto Union interesting!

An article by Tony Kaye on Nuvolari's exploits in America is promised for the May 2008 issue of the British magazine "The Automobile".

Thank you. I cannot wait to read.

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by Russ Snyder


Thank you. I cannot wait to read.

Same here.

By the way Russ,

Fortunately we all took it seriously but it was indeed a serious question I had if Nuvolari did speak english. Before the war England wasn't the dominant force in racing yet.
As for Italian speaking pople at Indy, I know that in later years Lew Welch did have a mechanic with an Italian background within his team but if he was with Welch that early already? And if the man in question did speak Italian or only had an Italian name, I don't know.

As for Welch having Nuvolari in his car, there are indeed pictures available of that. William Court printed a pic Of Nuvolari in the Miller in his book "Power and Glory"
What makes the story even stranger is that, to the best of my knowledge, the car was already qualified for the race that year. But did he want to replace his driver for Nuvolari instead? Anyway, the crew had a nice job coming up: repair a qualified car in time for the race.
He did so in later years: Doc Williams qualified a Novi in 1947, didn't feel corfortable and was too slow to Welch' liking so Herb Ardinger took over the qualified car on race day.

But Lew Welch was not hesitating in doing something to create headlines and interest for his team.


Henri

[Russ Snyder]

Originally posted by Henri Greuter



Same here.

By the way Russ,

Fortunately we all took it seriously but it was indeed a serious question I had if Nuvolari did speak english. Before the war England wasn't the dominant force in racing yet.
As for Italian speaking pople at Indy, I know that in later years Lew Welch did have a mechanic with an Italian background within his team but if he was with Welch that early already? And if the man in question did speak Italian or only had an Italian name, I don't know.

As for Welch having Nuvolari in his car, there are indeed pictures available of that. William Court printed a pic Of Nuvolari in the Miller in his book "Power and Glory"
What makes the story even stranger is that, to the best of my knowledge, the car was already qualified for the race that year. But did he want to replace his driver for Nuvolari instead? Anyway, the crew had a nice job coming up: repair a qualified car in time for the race.
He did so in later years: Doc Williams qualified a Novi in 1947, didn't feel corfortable and was too slow to Welch' liking so Herb Ardinger took over the qualified car on race day.

But Lew Welch was not hesitating in doing something to create headlines and interest for his team.


Henri

Henri

I laughed at this serious question because I could not imagine allowing someone to race a car like what Nuvolari jumped in, w/o some type of info sharing? Comparision over that make/model with his Alpha at the time would be like Apples and Oranges?

My Dad once told me: "Lew Welch never met a headline he didn't like"

Thanks for all the info sharing on this wonderful sport. There is a valid reason for this internet thing afterall...;-)

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Russ Snyder
I liken Ascari's Ferrari to the Novi's at the time. Both very heavy with high speeds on the straights, but not as good performing in the corners as those basically souped up midget/Dirt track Offy's.

I would like to see contemporary evidence of the Ferrari 375's straightline and cornering speeds at Indy in contrast to those of the Offy-powered 'establishment'... I doubt much speed advantage from the still top-endy unblown V12 'on the straights' compared to that achieved by the long-stroke 4-cylinder Offenhausers with their wind-up grunt away from the turns.

DCN