374 replies to this topic

[RF1 fan]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

About Mansell:"Mansell was the most special team mate. He is just a stupid man.He was unable to set up the car,when i was at the debriefing he was playing golf.He was angry because i was speaking italian in the team.I lost the 1990's championship because of him."

His best team mates were:Johansson,Rosberg,Lauda,Hill.

What's your opinion about his words?

[tamburello1]

Prost speaks the truth.

[Kooper]

Prost has a big nose

and also he is telling the truth re nige

[maccaFTW]

He's right about Mansell.

He's wrong about Mansell costing him the championship. Senna just flat beat him.

[Madras]

He's right about Mansell.

He's wrong about Mansell costing him the championship. Senna just flat beat him.

I think you'll find Senna flat took him out at the first corner on purpose.

[Madras]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

About Mansell:"Mansell was the most special team mate. He is just a stupid man.He was unable to set up the car,when i was at the debriefing he was playing golf.He was angry because i was speaking italian in the team.I lost the 1990's championship because of him."

His best team mates were:Johansson,Rosberg,Lauda,Hill.

What's your opinion about his words?

[RF1 fan]

He's right about Mansell.

He's wrong about Mansell costing him the championship. Senna just flat beat him.

Don't forget Estoril start when Mansell blocked Prost.

[Taxi]

Don't forget Estoril start when Mansell blocked Prost.

So now it makes two with the same opinion: Piquet and Prost.

[oh and Hakkinen was quoted saying he learned with Mansell NOT what to do]

[MinT]

Nigel is GOD !!

Prost is a Frenchman with a big nose.

[undersquare]

I'm trying to think if any of Nige's teams had a good word to say about him after he left them. Nope, can't think of any.

[maccaFTW]

I think you'll find Senna flat took him out at the first corner on purpose.

After he was already ahead in points.

Prost had shown the year before he would have done the same thing to Senna.

Edited by maccaFTW, 21 October 2009 - 17:47.

[ensign14]

There are a few people who thought well of Mansell, but those were those who dealt with him earlier in his career.

I think you'll find Senna flat took him out at the first corner on purpose.

The stupid thing about Senna's professional foul was that it was so unnecessary. He had another race to wrap up the title with.

[Kooper]

There are a few people who thought well of Mansell, but those were those who dealt with him earlier in his career.


The stupid thing about Senna's professional foul was that it was so unnecessary. He had another race to wrap up the title with.

That was personal to Senna.

[F3000man]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

About Mansell:"Mansell was the most special team mate. He is just a stupid man.He was unable to set up the car,when i was at the debriefing he was playing golf.He was angry because i was speaking italian in the team.I lost the 1990's championship because of him."

His best team mates were:Johansson,Rosberg,Lauda,Hill.

What's your opinion about his words?

Comparing to Piquet's opinions about him, Prost pretty much loves him.

[maccaFTW]

Don't forget Estoril start when Mansell blocked Prost.

Yeah, but Senna still had the better year.

And Prost arguably had a superior car that year, too. Nicholls, who came to Ferrari with Prost, did a brilliant job with th 641.

[Odvan]

He said it many times in the past. Nothing new.

[Colombo]

Yeah, but Senna still had the better year.

And Prost arguably had a superior car that year, too. Nicholls, who came to Ferrari with Prost, did a brilliant job with th 641.

Ferrari was steadily developed and was probably a better car by the end of the season but it was by no means the situation in the first half of the season.
They both did excellent job in the first 14 races. What happened in the 15th encounter must still stand as the greatest scandal and shame bestowed on our sport. That Senna was not DSQ'd for at least a year was a great shame for FIA.

Prost took every opportunity to slam Mansell for the start in Portugal and he was right - it was inexcusable and cost him 5 points. However, it would be 78:72, it's still questionable who would have won.

GC

Edited by Colombo, 21 October 2009 - 18:03.

[Boing 2]

the playing golf thing sounds about right from other peoples descriptions of him and i can imagine him getting paranoid about prost speaking itallian but i don't buy that he couldn't set up a car.

Don't forget he was a qualified engineer before he turned full time racer, his grasp of chassis mechanics must have been decent at the least. I can also remember patrick head telling how when mansell rejoined williams at the end of 1990 he took the old FW13b out for a test and said the setup was woeful, after stiffening the spring rates up he went back out and i think took 2 secs off boutsens fastest time in the car (may be a bit out on that time but it was a huge lump).

Mansell had a lot of faults but when he was on one he was a force of nature.

Edited by Boing 2, 21 October 2009 - 18:16.

[Atreiu]

Mansell, LOL.

'Nuf said.

[grunge]

Senna just flat beat him.

on a separate note,u do know what happened in the seasons these two raced as team mates

[maccaFTW]

on a separate note,u do know what happened in the seasons these two raced as team mates

Of course.

Senna proved to be the faster of the two over a single lap. Prost proved to be the more consistent. Same old party lines among F1 drivers.

The 1988 season is probably the biggest argument. Yeah, Senna won the championship only because of the old way of determining champions, and Prost scored the most points over the course of the whole season. But that was the reality of the way the championship was run back then, and it was up to Prost to approach the season that way and beat Senna in the system. He didn't do it. Prost turned around and flat beat Senna in 1989, though.

I don't know why Senna is considered this infallible god above all over racers. Is he one of the greatest? Absolutely. He's probably the fastest driver over a single lap in F1 history. But there's no question Prost was more consistent, better at setting up the car, and was at least his equal as an overall driver.

[Boing 2]

Mansell, LOL.

'Nuf said.

Booked himself out of hospital with a fractured spine to do his first F1 test with Lotus.

Drove with chemical burns down his back after mechanics spilled corrosive high octane fuel over him in a pitstop.

Got out and pushed his car over the line after running out of fuel, promptly collapsed with heat exhaustion.

Silverstone........Piquet..............26 second gap............'nuf said.

Passed Berger (a brave man himself) round the outside of the mighty Peraltada on the last lap 1990, a ferociously fast bumpy corner with minimal run off.

wheel to wheel (literally) with Senna, flat out, inches apart, pure ballsy madness from both.

won a title, so very nearly won three.

held the F1 and Indycar title at the same time. (only man to do so)

took pole and a win at first indycar race.

after crashing at his first oval at 170mph he tore a hole in his back muscle which had to be drained with a big syringe before each following race. he came 3rd next race and won his next oval.

won all oval races bar 3 in his rookie year.



He may be a bit of a tosser out of the car but in it he was top flight and one of the ballsiest drivers out there.

[grunge]

Of course.

Senna proved to be the faster of the two over a single lap. Prost proved to be the more consistent. Same old party lines among F1 drivers.

The 1988 season is probably the biggest argument. Yeah, Senna won the championship only because of the old way of determining champions, and Prost scored the most points over the course of the whole season. But that was the reality of the way the championship was run back then, and it was up to Prost to approach the season that way and beat Senna in the system. He didn't do it. Prost turned around and flat beat Senna in 1989, though.

I don't know why Senna is considered this infallible god above all over racers. Is he one of the greatest? Absolutely. He's probably the fastest driver over a single lap in F1 history. But there's no question Prost was more consistent, better at setting up the car, and was at least his equal as an overall driver.

this is going OT but the answer to yer last question would be the way he died..there was this thread on RC way back about ''would senna still be such a legend if he hadnt died that way''(i hadnt joined the forum then,but read it regularly)..the answer to me is no.

that is not meant to take away the epic driver that he was..just that the myth sort of got bigger than it deserved.

[Andy35]

Big nose v big eyebrows.

I know who is more interesting to listen to.

Is this just a case of the Lion v the Prof? Heart v head?

Forgetting personalities, Mansell entertained more than Prost did when in the car, both for Williams and for Ferrari. Blimey, I never thought I'd end up defending him. He did go to the USA and kicked ass as well in his first season, not many recent guys have done that. I think Nigel is actually worth a lot more in hindsight than we all give him credit for.

Regards
Andy

Edited by AndyW35, 21 October 2009 - 18:53.

[maccaFTW]

Booked himself out of hospital with a fractured spine to do his first F1 test with Lotus.

Drove with chemical burns down his back after mechanics spilled corrosive high octane fuel over him in a pitstop.

Got out and pushed his car over the line after running out of fuel, promptly collapsed with heat exhaustion.

Silverstone........Piquet..............26 second gap............'nuf said.

Passed Berger (a brave man himself) round the outside of the mighty Peraltada on the last lap 1990, a ferociously fast bumpy corner with minimal run off.

wheel to wheel (literally) with Senna, flat out, inches apart, pure ballsy madness from both.

won a title, so very nearly won three.

held the F1 and Indycar title at the same time. (only man to do so)

took pole and a win at first indycar race.

after crashing at his first oval at 170mph he tore a hole in his back muscle which had to be drained with a big syringe before each following race. he came 3rd next race and won his next oval.

won all oval races bar 3 in his rookie year.



He may be a bit of a tosser out of the car but in it he was top flight and one of the ballsiest drivers out there.

He was a very brave driver and had great single lap pace. No doubt.

He was also a car wrecker and inconsistent.

I'd rate him certainly below Senna and Prost, for sure.

[Andy35]

He was also a car wrecker

I think taking out Tiff Needell in a Mondeo and smacking into a bridge in the process is actually a plus point

Regards
Andy

[JPW]

Booked himself out of hospital with a fractured spine to do his first F1 test with Lotus.

Drove with chemical burns down his back after mechanics spilled corrosive high octane fuel over him in a pitstop.

Got out and pushed his car over the line after running out of fuel, promptly collapsed with heat exhaustion.

Silverstone........Piquet..............26 second gap............'nuf said.

Passed Berger (a brave man himself) round the outside of the mighty Peraltada on the last lap 1990, a ferociously fast bumpy corner with minimal run off.

wheel to wheel (literally) with Senna, flat out, inches apart, pure ballsy madness from both.

won a title, so very nearly won three.

held the F1 and Indycar title at the same time. (only man to do so)

took pole and a win at first indycar race.

after crashing at his first oval at 170mph he tore a hole in his back muscle which had to be drained with a big syringe before each following race. he came 3rd next race and won his next oval.

won all oval races bar 3 in his rookie year.



He may be a bit of a tosser out of the car but in it he was top flight and one of the ballsiest drivers out there.

Nige balls over brain, Le Professeur brain over balls

in the end the brain wins, like it nearly always does

[Madras]

I think taking out Tiff Needell in a Mondeo and smacking into a bridge in the process is actually a plus point

Regards
Andy

I remember when he crashed the Mondeo it was quite amusing. F1 driver cant drive a family car.

Edited by Madras, 21 October 2009 - 19:00.

[maccaFTW]

this is going OT but the answer to yer last question would be the way he died..there was this thread on RC way back about ''would senna still be such a legend if he hadnt died that way''(i hadnt joined the forum then,but read it regularly)..the answer to me is no.

that is not meant to take away the epic driver that he was..just that the myth sort of got bigger than it deserved.

Not only that, but I think we would have a lot of questions answered in the Senna v. Schumacher debate if he hadn't died at Imola. Schumacher was finally in a top car that year. Personally, I think Schumacher is the greatest racing driver ever and would have beaten him.

I think Damon Hill would also have been seen in a better light years later. He's already probably the most criminally underrated driver of all time. While Senna binned it the first two races, Hill was driving consistently, finishing second in Brazil and going down to a transmission failure Aida. He was already a match for Prost in the second half of the 1993 season.

[OnyxF1]

I don't know why Senna is considered this infallible god above all over racers. Is he one of the greatest? Absolutely. He's probably the fastest driver over a single lap in F1 history. But there's no question Prost was more consistent, better at setting up the car, and was at least his equal as an overall driver.

I hate to say it, but it's because Senna is dead. Had he have not been killed at Imola, he probably would have received the same ire that MS gets nowadays. I myself used to be a Senna fanboy/Prost hater when I was younger until I realised just how damn good the Professor actually was. Nowadays I actually feel that Prost was superior to Senna as a package, although not as entertaining to watch.

As for Mansell, he was a massively ballsy racer, terribly unlucky and a match for the best at times (N.Piquet being one). But he also gave a living definition to the word "whiner". He's pretty much the British equivalent of Montoya. Or is Montoya the Colombian equivalent of Mansell?

Edited by OnyxF1, 21 October 2009 - 19:05.

[craftverk]

Mansell was an idiot and a whiner I do agree. Mansell didn't play good boy at Portugal, but I blame Prost's mechanical failures for his title loss otherwise he would've won.

I've always rated Prost as the better package over Senna and Mansell as well, Onyx.

Edited by craftverk, 21 October 2009 - 19:13.

[Andy35]

I remember when he crashed the Mondeo it was quite amusing. F1 driver cant drive a family car.

I recall he did quite well in the 2nd race considering it was his first FWD car to drive in anger.

Regards

Andy

[Victor_RO]

I recall he did quite well in the 2nd race considering it was his first FWD car to drive in anger.

Regards

Andy

Well... even in that event, you can't beat an on-form Scot in a Vauxhall.

[Red 5]

Nigel is GOD !!

Prost is a Frenchman with a big nose.

As a kid growing up, I didn't watch Mansell because I thought he was technically astute (how would I know if he was, I was a kid!) I watched him because he was an exciting racer with balls of steel. Ok he could whinge like a bitch in his god awful accent when he was out of the car but when he was in it he was legendary.

[grunge]

Not only that, but I think we would have a lot of questions answered in the Senna v. Schumacher debate if he hadn't died at Imola. Schumacher was finally in a top car that year. Personally, I think Schumacher is the greatest racing driver ever and would have beaten him.

I think Damon Hill would also have been seen in a better light years later. He's already probably the most criminally underrated driver of all time. While Senna binned it the first two races, Hill was driving consistently, finishing second in Brazil and going down to a transmission failure Aida. He was already a match for Prost in the second half of the 1993 season.

i dont think anyone other than good ol jim clark deserves the the ''best racing driver ever'' title...yes i havent seen him race or die that day because i wasnt even born then,but from the precious little ive seen,read on him,he is the leader.the greatest of them all.ofcourse i dont have any proof to back myself up and i agree a comparison b/w his era and senna/prot/schumi era is unrealistic but still....i dont think the world has ever seen anything quite like him..it saddens me everytime i see the old video clip of his fatal accident.

on schumi vs senna its really hard to tell..honestly im not a fan of either of them.i cant doubt their racing ability at all though.

on damon,i tend to share the popular opinion..he wasnt that good at all..u may be right as he maybe too ''underrated'' but i really didnt see anything special in him.

Edited by grunge, 21 October 2009 - 19:26.

[Blue16]

1. Booked himself out of hospital with a fractured spine to do his first F1 test with Lotus.

2. Drove with chemical burns down his back after mechanics spilled corrosive high octane fuel over him in a pitstop.


3. Got out and pushed his car over the line after running out of fuel, promptly collapsed with heat exhaustion.


4. Silverstone........Piquet..............26 second gap............'nuf said.


5. Passed Berger (a brave man himself) round the outside of the mighty Peraltada on the last lap 1990, a ferociously fast bumpy corner with minimal run off.

6. wheel to wheel (literally) with Senna, flat out, inches apart, pure ballsy madness from both.

7. won a title, so very nearly won three.

8. held the F1 and Indycar title at the same time. (only man to do so)

9. took pole and a win at first indycar race.

10. after crashing at his first oval at 170mph he tore a hole in his back muscle which had to be drained with a big syringe before each following race. he came 3rd next race and won his next oval.

11. won all oval races bar 3 in his rookie year.



He may be a bit of a tosser out of the car but in it he was top flight and one of the ballsiest drivers out there.

Some inaccuracies here, I'm afraid.

2. This was his debut. There are countless examples of debutants going through the pain barrier in their first race

3. Stupidity. there were only five cars left running at the end at Dallas that day. It would make no difference if he'd have reached the line or not. He didn't, and still got 1pt. Ghinzani was 5th and already over the line if I remember correct.

4. This makes me laugh. Piquet went non-stop and was old tyres. Mansell lost a wheel weight early on and was forced into a tyre stop, which left him on fresh tyres against piquets old ones. By the time he overtook him at Stowe he had so much more grip it was untrue.


5. It wasn't the last lap. And Berger lifted very early for the corner, although he did later admit mansell "had balls like potatoes"

7. 87 was his own stupid fault for driving beyond the limits at Suzuka. 86, maybe.

8,9,10,11 - Indycar ? ! Bourdais, Andretti - F1 flops, yet masters in CART. Indycar is hardly a measure of any form of serious success.


Back to the plot - Prosts words? Yeah, I agree with him on most. The onlt point I don't agree is Mansell losing him the title. Prost had more bad days than senna that year and would have lost out anyway. Aardvaark nosed fool.

[inca_roads]

Wasn't there a story regarding Mansell's first test for Williams, where he worked out a radically different set-up and went much quicker than their race drivers had gone that season?

[Anomnader]

I seem to have come to the wrong forum, I thought this was the Autosport racing forum? But it can't be because we have a bunch of nobodies whinging about a great entertaining racing driver?

[maccaFTW]

on damon,i tend to share the popular opinion..he wasnt that good at all..u may be right as he maybe too ''underrated'' but i really didnt see anything special in him.

He was as smooth and consistent as anyone in F1 history. His race pace was fantastic. He was EXTREMELY good in the wet. He was very technically apt. And he nearly won a race with the bloody Arrows chassis in 1997!

Hill wasn't better than Schumacher. But he wasn't far behind. He was better than JV, and he was at least a match for Mika.

[roughage]

There really isn't much point in debating who was better than whom because the circumstances always change, some drivers suit different cars and teams, some have great years and others that are poor.
Prost is one of the all-time greats, clearly, but as Brit, Nigel Mansell was the guy that really got me addicted to Formula One. No-one since has had that aura when he was on a charge. I remember reading about his performance in qualifying at monaco one year, probably '87, but maybe later. Nigel Roebuck said that no-one was closer, and more consistently so, to the barriers than "Our Nige". So much so that over the course of the session he rubbed off the "Goodyear" decals on the tyres, not once making an error.
By no means the greatest, but statistically close, and by a distance the most exciting racer of the late 80's.

[Pampalini]

Some inaccuracies here, I'm afraid.

2. This was his debut. There are countless examples of debutants going through the pain barrier in their first race

3. Stupidity. there were only five cars left running at the end at Dallas that day. It would make no difference if he'd have reached the line or not. He didn't, and still got 1pt. Ghinzani was 5th and already over the line if I remember correct.

4. This makes me laugh. Piquet went non-stop and was old tyres. Mansell lost a wheel weight early on and was forced into a tyre stop, which left him on fresh tyres against piquets old ones. By the time he overtook him at Stowe he had so much more grip it was untrue.


5. It wasn't the last lap. And Berger lifted very early for the corner, although he did later admit mansell "had balls like potatoes"

7. 87 was his own stupid fault for driving beyond the limits at Suzuka. 86, maybe.

8,9,10,11 - Indycar ? ! Bourdais, Andretti - F1 flops, yet masters in CART. Indycar is hardly a measure of any form of serious success.


Back to the plot - Prosts words? Yeah, I agree with him on most. The onlt point I don't agree is Mansell losing him the title. Prost had more bad days than senna that year and would have lost out anyway. Aardvaark nosed fool.

And I do not agree with you. The same way you misunderstand the quoted post you do not understand Mansell- your loss anyway.

He was the King of Balls- I remember him quite well- never been a real fan of him, but without him those legendary years would have been so much quieter and less exciting. I think Prost did not understand him either- in a way they were not rivals- Prost were very much against the "risks"- he was only calculation and thinking. Mansell was the complete opposite- so that's way there is so few legendary Mansell-Prost fight.
Mansell was instead the rival of Senna- the greatest overtaker against the best defender ever- and both of them loved taking risks. That wheel to wheel fight against each other- and the sparks flying everywhere -for me at least- is EVERYTHING racing should be about.

Even his unluckyness- somehow is part of his charm- the big man with the big, sad moustache lost again, sitting beside his car- waiting for someone to pick him up... Senna is coming, Nigel hopes on his car...

Yes, he made mistakes-oh, you guys are so fast to judge him from your armchairs on these boards- but none of you would be brave enough to take the risks he took or feel the pain he felt sometimes.

[Anomnader]

There really isn't much point in debating who was better than whom because the circumstances always change, some drivers suit different cars and teams, some have great years and others that are poor.
Prost is one of the all-time greats, clearly, but as Brit, Nigel Mansell was the guy that really got me addicted to Formula One. No-one since has had that aura when he was on a charge. I remember reading about his performance in qualifying at monaco one year, probably '87, but maybe later. Nigel Roebuck said that no-one was closer, and more consistently so, to the barriers than "Our Nige". So much so that over the course of the session he rubbed off the "Goodyear" decals on the tyres, not once making an error.
By no means the greatest, but statistically close, and by a distance the most exciting racer of the late 80's.

Same here, Mansel got me interested in F1 and for me will always be one of the greatest drivers ever in F1.

[JarnoA]

Funny how Prost thinks Nigel couldn't set up a car when he nicked his car because he felt it was better setup. (Ferrari finally admitted so).

Nigel beat him in that race in Prost's car.

On a similar note, Prost cost Senna the 1993 title, through his Renault contacts blocking him from joining Williams, (something also cheered by Mansell, who was also blocked by the frenchman, despite being the reigning WDC).

Prost was a great driver, but also a coward.

[craftverk]

He was as smooth and consistent as anyone in F1 history. His race pace was fantastic. He was EXTREMELY good in the wet. He was very technically apt. And he nearly won a race with the bloody Arrows chassis in 1997!

Hill wasn't better than Schumacher. But he wasn't far behind. He was better than JV, and he was at least a match for Mika.

Sorry but Schumacher was on another planet. Hill beat Villeneueve but not enough considering Villeneueve was a rookie.

[giacomo]

Funny how Prost thinks Nigel couldn't set up a car when he nicked his car because he felt it was better setup. (Ferrari finally admitted so).

Nigel beat him in that race in Prost's car.

Sounds like a fairy tale. Source?

[Pampalini]

Sorry but Schumacher was on another planet. Hill beat Villeneueve but not enough considering Villeneueve was a rookie.

Sorry but Schumacher had no real rivals who are mentioned in any "Best F1 drivers ever" top ten list... Mansell had to fight a Piquet, a Prost, a Senna and a Lauda- sometimes at the same season.

[giacomo]

About Mansell:"Mansell was the most special team mate. He is just a stupid man.He was unable to set up the car,when i was at the debriefing he was playing golf.He was angry because i was speaking italian in the team.I lost the 1990's championship because of him."

Nothing new under the sun. Apart from Mansell causing Prost losing the '90 title. No idea how that should have happened.

[Kenaltgr]

There are a few people who thought well of Mansell, but those were those who dealt with him earlier in his career.


The stupid thing about Senna's professional foul was that it was so unnecessary. He had another race to wrap up the title with.

He won the Suzuka 1989 race after Prost turned his car on him. Then got disqualified by Balesstre becasue he wasn't French. Then moving pole to the dirty side of the track in 1990. That gives him enough reasons to crash into Prost in Suzuka 1990 even if he had already won the title by that point.

Edited by Kenaltgr, 21 October 2009 - 20:22.

[JPW]

Same here, Mansel got me interested in F1 and for me will always be one of the greatest drivers ever in F1.

That is understandable but surely one day you'll be able to get some perspective and realise that there are true greats and personal greats

[Anomnader]

That is understandable but surely one day you'll be able to get some perspective and realise that there are true greats and personal greats

Name me one that didn't have any issues or why you think your perspective is supperior to others?

I'll stick to mine, thanks.