18 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

In October, 1930 (I believe) the surviving remnant of the Scuderia Materassi sold off its stock of Talbot racing cars, parts and useable wreckage. During 1931 assorted Talbots appeared in Italian events. By the end of that year Gigi Plate apparently owned what remained of the three straight-8 Materassi Talbots and he reassembled two of them around brand-new ladder-frame chassis tailor-made to his order by Meroni SA, of Turin. I believe that these chassis frames were narrower than the deep-chested Suresnes-built originals. Presumably the two re-chassised car sets were those damaged in the fatal accidents to Materassi himself - at Monza in 1928 - and then to Brilli-Peri at the Mellaha.

Can anyone throw any more light upon 1931-32 season races in Italy in which straight-8 and/or the 4-cyl 'Invincible' Talbots were campaigned?

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 22 October 2009 - 20:57.

[larryd]

In October, 1930 (I believe) the surviving remnant of the Scuderia Materassi sold off its stock of Talbot racing cars, parts and useable wreckage. During 1931 assorted Talbots appeared in Italian events. By the end of that year Gigi Plate apparently owned what remained of the three straight-8 Materassi Talbots and he reassembled two of them around brand-new ladder-frame chassis tailor-made to his order by Meroni SA, of Turin. I believe that these chassis frames were narrower than the deep-chested Suresnes-built originals. Presumably the two re-chassised car sets were those damaged in the fatal accidents to Materassi himself - at Monza in 1928 - and then to Brilli-Peri at the Mellaha.

Can anyone throw any more light upon 1931-32 season races in Italy in which straight-8 and/or the 4-cyl 'Invincible' Talbots were campaigned?

DCN

Outside your normal timeframe, Doug?

Kindly concentrate on BRM Volume 4, and then go and play in the 30s

[Damien Duigan]

In October, 1930 (I believe) the surviving remnant of the Scuderia Materassi sold off its stock of Talbot racing cars, parts and useable wreckage. During 1931 assorted Talbots appeared in Italian events. By the end of that year Gigi Plate apparently owned what remained of the three straight-8 Materassi Talbots and he reassembled two of them around brand-new ladder-frame chassis tailor-made to his order by Meroni SA, of Turin. I believe that these chassis frames were narrower than the deep-chested Suresnes-built originals. Presumably the two re-chassised car sets were those damaged in the fatal accidents to Materassi himself - at Monza in 1928 - and then to Brilli-Peri at the Mellaha.

Can anyone throw any more light upon 1931-32 season races in Italy in which straight-8 and/or the 4-cyl 'Invincible' Talbots were campaigned?

DCN

Am I right in thinking the ex-Jack Day car is no longer in Australia and destined for auction?

Can't help with the period you're enquiring about, but have referenced a few notes on the car in Motor Sport - for instance, the April 1947 reported George Radford as “having the famous 1926 G.P. straight-eight 1.5-litre Talbot-Darracq... prepared for him by Stoke and Harliss, of Attenborough.” The June 1947 edition further commented “Harliss & Stokes, of Attenborough Garage, sportingly write to point out that we were incorrect in saying they are preparing the old straight-eight Talbot-Darracq for Radford to drive; they did a few mods on this car and G.R.Stokes is still assisting with engine development, but Saxondale Motors are to do the bulk of the work.”

Radford raced the car at Gransden Lodge in July 1947, retiring from Race 9 for Vintage Racing Cars after holding down second place.

Late in 1947, G.G.Radford of The Old Rectory, Wollaton, Nottingham had the car on offer at £975.

The car was then shipped to Melbourne in 1949 and ultimately resided just down the Calder Hwy from where I live in Mount Macedon, Victoria for many years.

Cheers,
Damien

[David McKinney]

I might be on shaky ground here, but here’s the sum of my beliefs...

1921 fours
Six cars built (three in France, three in Britain) - all apparently scrapped and the parts used in the construction of the 1923 cars

1923 fours
Raced 1923-26. Dan Higgin raced a single-seater and a 2-seater in the later ’20s (and possibly a third car as well), and Urbann-Emmerich campaigned another in Continental events as late as 1931.

Scuderia Materassi reportedly had two in 1928, but I have no record of them appearing after that

1926 eights
Four cars raced by works, rebuilt with wider chassis for 1927

All to Scuderia Materassi for 1928, and at least three were raced in the ensuing years

Appearances in 1931 included the following:
•Tunis 29/3: Castellbarco
•Alessandria 26/4: Roberto di Vecchio, Ermini (1100)
•Italian GP 24/5: di Vecchio, Amadeo Ruggeri/Balestrero (1700)
•Rome GP 7/6: Ruggeri (1700), Gerolamo Ferrari (1100), Balestrero (di Vecchi’s?)
•Coppa Ciano 2/8: di Vecchio, Ruggeri (1700), Ferrari (1100)
•Coppa Acerbo 16/8: Ruggeri (1700), Ferrari (1100)
•Monza GP 6/9: Matrullo (Ferrari’s), di Vecchio (dns), Ruggeri (dns)
•A fourth car entered the Monza GP but failed to start
•Vismaya also apparently raced a car in 1931

The only name I have in 1932 is Moradei (no other details)

Gigi Plate apparently had four cars, though AFAIK only one was rebuilt with a Plate chassis, and that not until c1949. This example passed through the hands of Guido Dubbini and after his detah was acquired by David Cohen, for whom Sean Danaher restored the car to original spec. Last appearance known (to me) was with Cohen at Laguna Seca in 2001

The subsequent fate of a second Talbot campaigned by Plate into the late 1940s is not known

Another Plate car had gone to South Africa in 1936, racing subsequently with a 3.4-litre Graham engine. The remains were still in South Africa, in the hands of Boetie van Zyl, in 1995

The final Plate car was sold to Powys-Lybbe in the UK in 1937, exported to Australia in 1949 and raced there into the late ’50s. Was still in Australia 2003, owned by Stuart Anderson

[Wouter Melissen]

David, I think the Cohen car was at Goodwood in 2008:

http://www.ultimatec...Grand-Prix.html

The car that was in Australia will be auctioned in 2010 at Retromobile by Bonhams.

[Dutchy]

http://www.bonhams.c...HeadlineNo=4344

According to this the Pows-Lybbe/Radford car was given a new chassis by Plate in 1931

As to the 1923 4 cylinder cars - what became of them? It is strange that not a trace seems to survive

[David McKinney]

David, I think the Cohen car was at Goodwood in 2008

I'd forgotten that. Though it was there in 1997

[john ruston]

Doug-Ask john Polson,his father can give you all the History but does not do forums.
These were not the invincible lot,they were in Padington?

[asapiro]

I've always liked the 8 cyl Talbot Darracq. Classic & Sportscar mag did I nice feature on this car in March 1996
- I've still got the article. Does anyone have - or can they link me to - scale or 3 way drawings?
I've been looking for years without success.

David, I think the Cohen car was at Goodwood in 2008:

http://www.ultimatec...Grand-Prix.html

The car that was in Australia will be auctioned in 2010 at Retromobile by Bonhams.

[Doug Nye]

Thanks everyone - but what I am interested in is Italian racing, 1931...

And BRM V4 will develop in its own time, thank you.

DCN

[Damien Duigan]

Gigi Plate apparently had four cars, though AFAIK only one was rebuilt with a Plate chassis, and that not until c1949. This example passed through the hands of Guido Dubbini and after his detah was acquired by David Cohen, for whom Sean Danaher restored the car to original spec. Last appearance known (to me) was with Cohen at Laguna Seca in 2001

G'day David,

I believe David Cohen sold the car to Sam Mann of New Jersey, who entered the car at Laguna Seca in 2002 and again in 2004.

Austrian dealer Egon Zweimueller entered the car at Goodwood in 2008.

Cheers,
Damien

[Allan Lupton]

Richard Cass wrote a piece on these cars in the VSCC Bulletin a few years ago.
I can't find it for the moment, but it may have some helpful information, and Richard may have more than he wrote up at the time.

[Roger Clark]

Richard Cass wrote a piece on these cars in the VSCC Bulletin a few years ago.
I can't find it for the moment, but it may have some helpful information, and Richard may have more than he wrote up at the time.

Summer '96

[Allan Lupton]

Summer '96

Thanks.
For some reason, it's missing from the index I have

[Alan Cox]

Richard Cass is a TNF member, Doug, so should be easily contactable.

[oliver heal]

Thanks everyone - but what I am interested in is Italian racing, 1931...

And BRM V4 will develop in its own time, thank you.

DCN

Serge Pozzoli, Le Fana de l'Auto, January 1980 in the 4th and last part of an article on the 8 cylinder Talbots mentions:
1931
Di Vecchio finished at Alexandria and in GP d'Italie
Ruggeri 4th GP de Rome
Balestrero retired GP de Rome

1932
Moradei retired GP de Monza

This seems to be rather less than david Mckinney has already listed
Oliver

[robert dick]

According to the contemporary Italian press, the Scuderia Materassi was still active in 1931.
Gran Premio d'Italia: two Talbots - no. 38 for Ruggeri-Balestrero, and no. 40 for Di Vecchio-Ferrari (Carlo Di Vecchio and Girolamo Ferrari).
Reale Premio di Roma: three Talbots - no. 12 in the 1,1-litre class for Ferrari ("la Scuderia Materassi fara corere una Talbot 1000, motore Talbot e chassis Bugatti") - no. 48 in the 2-litre class for Ruggeri and no. 60 for Balestrero - in addition to the Talbots the Scuderia Materassi entered one Itala in the over 3-litre class, no. 84 for Di Vecchio; but in the race the car was driven by Ruggeri.
Hillclimb Pontedecimo-Giovi: three Talbots - nos. 25, 26 and 27 for Balestrero, Di Vecchio and Ferrari.
Coppa Ciano: three Talbots - no. 15 in the 1,1-litre class for Ferrari - no. 18 in the over 1,1-litre class for Ruggeri and no. 31 for Di Vecchio.
Coppa Acerbo: two Talbots - no. 14 in the 1,1-litre class for "Ferrari con la Talbot 1100 su chassis Bugatti" - no. 38 in the over 1,1-litre class for Ruggeri.
Gran Premio di Monza: four Talbots - no. 16 in the 1,1-litre class (Gran Premio di Vetturette) for Ferrari - no. 14 in the Monza GP for Ruggeri, no. 15 for Ferrari, and no. 16 for Di Vecchio.
Consuma: two Talbots - no. 12 for Pasquino Ermini, and no. 14 for Mario Rindi.
Coppa Pierazzi (in October, 30-km sprint between Grosseto and Scansano): Rindi finished third in the 1,5-litre class.

In 1932, the name "Scuderia Materassi" did not reappear/probably shut down.
Coppa Acerbo: two Talbots were entered - no. 13 for Moradei, and no. 14 for Ciarelli.
Gran Premio di Monza: one Talbot in the second batteria - no. 36 for Moradei.

Photo: 1931 Reale Premio di Roma, Ruggeri, Talbot


= = = =
Any details concerning the 1,1-litre car with Talbot engine and Bugatti chassis?

[ERault]

In 1932, the name "Scuderia Materassi" did not reappear/probably shut down.
Coppa Acerbo: two Talbots were entered - no. 13 for Moradei, and no. 14 for Ciarelli.
Gran Premio di Monza: one Talbot in the second batteria - no. 36 for Moradei.

In "La Scuderia Ferrari 1929-39" (Orsini & Zagari) we have page 162 a photo of a group of cars before the start of the 1932 Coppa Messina on may 15. There are a lot of 8C Alfas and a Talbot with number 38, said to be driven by Piccolo. The event was for sportscars and the Talbot has cycle-wings.

[robert dick]

In November 1928, a few weeks after Materassi's accident, Corrado Filippini wrote that Scuderia Materassi would continue its activities with Brilli Peri, Arcangeli and Comotti. The Talbots were prepared by mechanics "Pasquino" and "André". Pasquino was certainly Pasquale Ermini.
But André? Filippini described him as "il francese André, che aveva voluto seguire Emilio e le macchine in Italia. Pasquino e André che vissero le vigilie di lavoro prepararono le macchine per le prime vittorie".
Was André the former Sunbeam-Talbot-Darracq mechanic Hivernat?