39 replies to this topic

[Phucaigh]

John Naylor, president of Motorsport Ireland and a VP choice of Ari Vatanen made claims on RTE radio 1 that the following things happened.

Vatanen was told by 108 clubs that they would be voting for him.
Some of the said clubs abstained.
Todt's team paid some clubs for their votes.
Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.

Is it ok to buy votes in the FIA?

[jeze]

John Naylor, president of Motorsport Ireland and a VP choice of Ari Vatanen made claims on RTE radio 1 that the following things happened.

Vatanen was told by 108 clubs that they would be voting for him.
Some of the said clubs abstained.
Todt's team paid some clubs for their votes.
Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.

Is it ok to buy votes in the FIA?

It is OK in all corrupt governing bodies, watch the FIFA, the UEFA, the IOC and all crap!

[Ijsman]

John Naylor, president of Motorsport Ireland and a VP choice of Ari Vatanen made claims on RTE radio 1 that the following things happened.

Vatanen was told by 108 clubs that they would be voting for him.
Some of the said clubs abstained.
Todt's team paid some clubs for their votes.
Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.

Is it ok to buy votes in the FIA?

And did he really buy them?

[FlatOverCrest]

How did I know that in this great "change" and "new start" for the FIA.....we simply end up with the same King in different clothes...

IS THERE ANYTHING...that can be done legit with the FIA where some simple bloody common sense rules?

Bunch of overated, overgrown children that need ALL their damn heads bashed together.....

[Phucaigh]

And did he really buy them?

Well it would be nothing new to buying votes in the FIA as one of Max's friends said he bought votes for Max in a previous vote...

[senna da silva]

Is it ok to buy votes in the FIA?

Apparantly anything and everything goes at the FIA.

After years of murmurs about the FIA's perceived favouritism to Ferrari what do they do hire the ex boss of Ferrari as their President whose son just happens to manage one of their drivers. It's like some banana republic.

[JPW]

John Naylor, president of Motorsport Ireland and a VP choice of Ari Vatanen made claims on RTE radio 1 that the following things happened.

Vatanen was told by 108 clubs that they would be voting for him.
Some of the said clubs abstained.
Todt's team paid some clubs for their votes.
Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.

Is it ok to buy votes in the FIA?

Did the desillusioned Vatanen mate provide any proof Phucaigh or are we to believe the esteemed gentleman on his word?

Also, "On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents." there are 26 people on the WMSC and none of them needs jobs handed out to them.

I'd file this under sour grapes

[Victor_RO]

I'd file this under sour grapes

I'd file this under "suspicious, but won't be investigated by anyone".

I live in a country where stuff like this happens, so I smell a bit of a political rat.

Edited by Victor_RO, 23 October 2009 - 19:55.

[pingu666]

not a big surprise

[Phucaigh]

Did the desillusioned Vatanen mate provide any proof Phucaigh or are we to believe the esteemed gentleman on his word?

Also, "On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents." there are 26 people on the WMSC and none of them needs jobs handed out to them.

I'd file this under sour grapes

Not WMSC jobs but they met on Wednesday and lots of other jobs were being handed out, think he said commission jobs.

[The Ragged Edge]

Did the desillusioned Vatanen mate provide any proof Phucaigh or are we to believe the esteemed gentleman on his word?

Also, "On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents." there are 26 people on the WMSC and none of them needs jobs handed out to them.

I'd file this under sour grapes

JPW, unfortunately seem to overlook the obvious. Since you haven't ran a business or any club/organisation, you were totally aware of what a article of association was. With allegations rampant within the FIA of voter intimidation, you dont find it strange that the FIA would change the voting process, less than a week before the election? What possible reason would the FIA need to change the voting process for? This and other questions you utterly fail to repond to with anything approaching a modicum of commonsense. This is democracy out of the school of Robert Mugabe et al.

[ensign14]

Well, on the basis that the un-bought associations must be the wealthier clubs and those with more integrity, they're always free to split and form a separate organization.

[MegaManson]

There is enough sour grapes here from Naylor to start his own vineyard, pathetic really

I would understand wild allegations if it was a narrow defeat but Vatanen was utterly humilliated by Todt in this ballot

People say things to opinion pollsters what opinion pollsters want to hear it is human nature or some of these guys just said to Vatanen yes so as to shut him up when they had no intention of voting for him

The Vatanen camp should just move on and move on in a dignified way instead of foot stamping like 5 year olds and spouting stupid conspiracy theories

[carbonfibre]

So where is the evidence....

[northstar]

There is enough sour grapes here from Naylor to start his own vineyard, pathetic really

I would understand wild allegations if it was a narrow defeat but Vatanen was utterly humilliated by Todt in this ballot

People say things to opinion pollsters what opinion pollsters want to hear it is human nature or some of these guys just said to Vatanen yes so as to shut him up when they had no intention of voting for him

The Vatanen camp should just move on and move on in a dignified way instead of foot stamping like 5 year olds and spouting stupid conspiracy theories

I hope you're not that naive in real life.

[FlatOverCrest]

some of these guys just said to Vatanen yes so as to shut him up when they had no intention of voting for him

I personally would find that pretty disrespectful and disgusting. The man has MORE than given enough to the world of motorsport to feel he will be given an honest answer to a simple question. If it turns out that members actually did lie to Ari saying they would vote for him then didnt, the FIA is truly filled with a bunch of self serving, two faced, slippery [fatherless children] and they can all go [procreate themselves]

[EthanM]

the FIA is truly filled with a bunch of self serving, two faced, slippery [fatherless children] and they can all go [procreate themselves]

This is true of any political/lobby group anywhere in the world, it's hardly news.

[Anssi]

I watched a Finnish sports news broadcast about an hour and a half ago and Ari Vatanen indeed did look genuinely surprised that he had had people tell him they will vote for him and then they didn't.

They said something must have happened in the recent few days that he lost so many votes. On the mobility side, said Kari O. Sohlberg.

In my opinion they were able to keep their dignity facing the loss. Ari was calm and composed and didn't sound bitter to me. He did sound disappointed though that they didn't get as many votes as people had promised them.

I don't personally mind that he lost. I am in fact relieved to see that my countryman won't be the one who will be accused of bias and corruption and injust penalties etc. as the head of the FIA. I would have felt sorry for him for those kinds of things and I think Ari should not be too sad about this.

Edited by Anssi, 23 October 2009 - 21:11.

[alfista]

Replacing Putin with Medvedev as a president of Russia now looks like an act of deepest and purest democracy.
Ari at least tried and was taken seriously.
Now it will be interesting to see how Max is going to punish those who dared to vote for Ari.
FOTA will regret deeply that they didn't split from FIA in the summer, say what they say now. Is it possible voting results will influence Toyota's decision to stay/leave?

Edited by alfista, 23 October 2009 - 21:44.

[Big Block 8]

How did I know that in this great "change" and "new start" for the FIA.....we simply end up with the same King in different clothes...

IS THERE ANYTHING...that can be done legit with the FIA where some simple bloody common sense rules?

Couple of years back I was wondering the same thing and investigated a little bit. Unfortunately there is little to be done.

There are international laws concerning business and industry against for example bribery and cartels, but there is no such jurisdiction when "sports" are concerned. The problem with the FIA and for example IOC is the same, they can bribe as much as they want, they can change the rules and hand out jobs and penalties just the way they want and still no one is able to touch them as long as it's just about "sports". They have a free pass to do whatever they want and as such all they are concerned about is the short term cash flow to their pockets.

It's not nice but we'll just have to deal with it, as we can't do anything about it. Vatanen might have genuinely at least tried to change some of it, but we all just saw what happened to his attempt (and will happen to other such attempts as well) - he was simply landslided out.

[Phucaigh]

http://www.rte.ie/ra...e-sportat7.smil

The RTE interview with John Naylor, starts around the 25th minute.

[JPW]

http://www.rte.ie/ra...e-sportat7.smil

The RTE interview with John Naylor, starts around the 25th minute.

Thanks Phucaigh for that link

[Phucaigh]

Thanks Phucaigh for that link

It will be only available till Monday on that link - after 7pm it will be replaced.

[Galko877]

John Naylor, president of Motorsport Ireland and a VP choice of Ari Vatanen made claims on RTE radio 1 that the following things happened.

Vatanen was told by 108 clubs that they would be voting for him.
Some of the said clubs abstained.
Todt's team paid some clubs for their votes.
Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.

Is it ok to buy votes in the FIA?

Proof? Or are we just taking the word of bitter people from Team Vatanen for it?

It seems for anti-Todt people here on this BB it's enough to consider it as a fact....

Edited by Galko877, 24 October 2009 - 11:53.

[Anomnader]

Proof?

Well, Max's and FIA actions all the way through this election have being corrupt, so forgive people for not giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[Slowinfastout]

For the spankgate vote it was the vote-buyer confirming it happened... I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again.

It's a bit funny hearing people asking for proof lol

To be fair though, the difference in votes between the candidates is too large to make a big issue out of this..

[Sakae]

Apparantly anything and everything goes at the FIA.

After years of murmurs about the FIA's perceived favouritism to Ferrari what do they do hire the ex boss of Ferrari as their President whose son just happens to manage one of their drivers. It's like some banana republic.

Apparently anything and everything goes on the accusatory side. If this man feel so strongly, let him go to the courts to sort it out then, but with the warning; if you loose, we will teach you a lesson that you will be one sorry ass for the rest of your natural life.

[JPW]

Proof? Or are we just taking the word of bitter people from Team Vatanen for it?

It seems for anti-Todt people here on this BB it's enough to consider it as a fact....

There's no proof of course, that's not needed for some of the alu-hatters to promote it to fact anyway, but let's look at the allegations:

Vatanen was told by 108 clubs that they would be voting for him.
Sorry but I don't hold this for very credible, you don't lose nearly 60 votes overnight.
Sure some clubs might have had a change of heart but not 60, so I think this was a case of team Vatanen being a bit overly optimistic.

Some of the said clubs abstained.
Possible but again not 60, there were only 12 abstentions.

Todt's team paid some clubs for their votes.
No proof and not very likely. What could have happened is that certain clubs who couldn't/hadn't paid their dues to FIA (and hence couldn't vote) were found a "sponsor" by people who supported Jean Todt.
Nothing illegal with that, happens all the time and I wouldn't be surprised if Ari & friends did the same.

Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
Nothing wrong with that, a FIA member pledges you his support then you ask; "would you mind if I watch while you place the X behind the name Jean Todt."
Remember FIA members had the right to vote anonymously not the obligation, maybe if Vatanen had asked to look over a few shoulders he wouldn't have lost so many votes.

On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.
Well we've established above that it was not at the WMSC meeting but sure some members were "promised" a position in a commission or working group if they voted for a certain candidate.

There's nothing wrong with that, I'm sure that Vatanen made these promises/hints along the way as well. (think promising a WRC event in Africa recently).
Take for example Prince Feisal of Jordan, do you really think that he supported Ari because of his views on FIA reforms, transparency and democracy?

Of course not, the good prince (who supported Mosley during Spankgate) wants more influence in his motorsport region but is being curbed by UAE's bin Sulayem who supports Todt and is the leading figure in Middle Eastern Motorsport at the moment.

So is the esteemed Irish gentleman lying through his teeth, probably not but he's being a bit hypocritical and certainly suffers from sour grapes syndrome

[Phucaigh]

John Naylor did say it looks like the FIA is full of liars going by what they were told by various clubs and by what then proceeded to take place.

[Captain Tightpants]

John Naylor, president of Motorsport Ireland and a VP choice of Ari Vatanen made claims on RTE radio 1 that the following things happened.

So because Naylor says it happened, it happened? You don't think he might have said something because he thought Vatanen was looking good for a win and he'd be the new Vice-President and now he's sore that he lost?

[HP]

IMO Vatanen expecting 108 votes seems a bit high for me to start with.

Where is the proof for that anyway? If you know beforehand how many votes you get, then why having a vote anyway?

Making such statements makes it also easy for the other side to bring up allegations of vote buying or vote fixing. Not smart at all. IMO that was the biggest problem with Vatanens bid.

But as someone wrote above, If the FiA indeed is that corrupt, then Vatanen had a huge challenge for his reputation ahead anyway. Better start with a new organization, and provide better services than the FiA. Disgruntled entities would join them quickly. At least it might give the FiA some pressure to clean up their act.

[race]

Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
Nothing wrong with that, a FIA member pledges you his support then you ask; "would you mind if I watch while you place the X behind the name Jean Todt."
Remember FIA members had the right to vote anonymously not the obligation, maybe if Vatanen had asked to look over a few shoulders he wouldn't have lost so many votes.

On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.
Well we've established above that it was not at the WMSC meeting but sure some members were "promised" a position in a commission or working group if they voted for a certain candidate.

There's nothing wrong with that

There's everything wrong with that. You must live in a place so corrupt that you don't even understand how an uncorrupt organization would work. I didn't hear anybody saying it was illegal because it was a private organization making a joke of an election, but it would be illegal in any real election. From the above it is clear any debate is futile, I'm just glad the world isn't full of people like you. One day you should try living somewhere else and maybe you would get this.

[Lewis]

Explains a lot just like the bought votes of the Olympic Games in the past.

Edited by Lewis, 24 October 2009 - 13:12.

[Orin]

John Naylor, president of Motorsport Ireland and a VP choice of Ari Vatanen made claims on RTE radio 1 that the following things happened.

Vatanen was told by 108 clubs that they would be voting for him.
Some of the said clubs abstained.
Todt's team paid some clubs for their votes.
Todt's team observed the said clubs when voting to make sure they voted for Todt.
On Wednesday at the WMSC jobs were being handed out at the FIA like Christmas presents.

Is it ok to buy votes in the FIA?

Ari's silence suggests he might bring a case against vote rigging. I hope he does so. How anyone can support the FIA is beyond me, it's rotten to the core.

[Conny_Mary]

Proof?Legal actions?Not very surprised about what he said.

[Slowinfastout]

Ari's silence suggests he might bring a case against vote rigging. I hope he does so. How anyone can support the FIA is beyond me, it's rotten to the core.

I don't think he will... Ari is pretty much alone now.

[Orin]

http://www.rte.ie/ra...e-sportat7.smil

The RTE interview with John Naylor, starts around the 25th minute.

"They stood over them and watched them vote, the clubs whose votes had been bought - it was observed by many people"

Disgraceful. Slowinfastout, you might be right, but I hope not.

[Captain Tightpants]

Ari's silence suggests he might bring a case against vote rigging.

Or maybe he's just being gracious in defeat.

[JPW]

I don't think he will... Ari is pretty much alone now.

I'm afraid so, the FIA is closing ranks and Ari is out, he's of no more use to the large commercial Mobility clubs, I don't think he'll be on the board of trustees of FIA Foundation for long and unless Jean Todt and his team are feeling really magnanimous there's no place for him in motorsport either.

Must not be a good feeling losing 2 elections within 5 months.

[learningtobelost]

Proof?

Well, Max's and FIA actions all the way through this election have being corrupt, so forgive people for not giving them the benefit of the doubt.

well, he wouldn't risk going onto an international broadcaster and saying these things without being damn sure of himself, lets be fair you don't go and slander the FIA, they are an organisation of lawyers!