Why are some drivers/riders faster than others? Better technique? Better race schooling? Earlier start? Better foundation? Money? Or is it simply, more natural ability, or put another way, talent?
I read an interesting statement by the American MX rider, Davy Millsaps, where he stated a rider/driver will develop his natural speed potential by the age of 15, and not beyond, and although he might still improve in other areas such as experience, or learn a new technique, or improve his race-craft through experience, he will never actually be able to improve his natural speed after that age.
It´s something I´ve really thought about, and still haven´t reached a conclusion.
Obviously he´s referring to the modern day process of starting kids out in motorsport from a very early age. But what about the old timers like myself, who only got to have a go when we were into our very late teens and beyond? Is this "natural speed limit" something we are born with, or is it something that, if worked on from a early age, can develop, but only until we reach 15 or 16?
I really would be interested in your views.
Natural speed
Started by
ex Rhodie racer 2
, Oct 31 2009 12:34
7 replies to this topic
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#2
jez6363
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Posted 31 October 2009 - 13:33
Its a good question!
One thing that always amazes me is how much a driver can 'up' their game - those hurry ups from the team can so often work. Also, a driver wanting to make a point can very often produce something much better than they normally would. Also angry drivers can really perform far above their normal level (albeit with more risk, but often not that much).
So part of being a naturally quick driver might be something to do with the ability to stay for longer at that heightened performance level.
Maybe something to do with adrenalin levels, and having a body that can sustain higher levels for longer / reacts better to continual high adrenalin?
The other factor I think matters a lot is the ability to quickly read the track and to recognise very subtle differences in performance, and seek those out. It needs to be like breathing, to adjust your line and car inputs, and build up a track memory that lets you do the basics mindlessly, so you can apply your brain to looking for more advantages.
It was noticeable with Schumacher that he had so much time to talk and analyse, because the basics of going round quickly were just a background task to him.
One thing that always amazes me is how much a driver can 'up' their game - those hurry ups from the team can so often work. Also, a driver wanting to make a point can very often produce something much better than they normally would. Also angry drivers can really perform far above their normal level (albeit with more risk, but often not that much).
So part of being a naturally quick driver might be something to do with the ability to stay for longer at that heightened performance level.
Maybe something to do with adrenalin levels, and having a body that can sustain higher levels for longer / reacts better to continual high adrenalin?
The other factor I think matters a lot is the ability to quickly read the track and to recognise very subtle differences in performance, and seek those out. It needs to be like breathing, to adjust your line and car inputs, and build up a track memory that lets you do the basics mindlessly, so you can apply your brain to looking for more advantages.
It was noticeable with Schumacher that he had so much time to talk and analyse, because the basics of going round quickly were just a background task to him.
#3
shonguiz
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Posted 31 October 2009 - 13:51
That's something i always thought, i still laugh at peoples who think that Massa gained half of a second when Kimi came in.
#4
BullHead
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Posted 31 October 2009 - 21:14
I would expect that natural speed does come out early on, before teens say, soon after the first important breakout in a kid - quashing of fear. Later then, perhaps in early teens, race craft (in a karting sense, lines, overtaking, outbraking etc.) can be applied to that natural ability.
#5
Slartibartfast
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Posted 31 October 2009 - 21:43
Very good question!
I don't know of any research that's been done into what makes a fast driver. Pretty much every other sport has every success factor analysed to the nth degree, so someone must have done the same for the drivers in motor-racing. If anyone does know of any research, links/references would be welcome. I know there are competition drivers and instructors on this board, I'd like to know what they think.
I don't think I can even list all the potential factors that make a successful racing driver, so how much is innate and how much environmental/learned, I have no idea.
Most physical factors can be trained, even hand-eye co-ordination, but what gives a driver his 'feel' for a car's behaviour? Is that a natural talent or experience? Can it be taught, or can a driver only be taught to make best use of his 'feel'?
I don't know of any research that's been done into what makes a fast driver. Pretty much every other sport has every success factor analysed to the nth degree, so someone must have done the same for the drivers in motor-racing. If anyone does know of any research, links/references would be welcome. I know there are competition drivers and instructors on this board, I'd like to know what they think.
I don't think I can even list all the potential factors that make a successful racing driver, so how much is innate and how much environmental/learned, I have no idea.
Most physical factors can be trained, even hand-eye co-ordination, but what gives a driver his 'feel' for a car's behaviour? Is that a natural talent or experience? Can it be taught, or can a driver only be taught to make best use of his 'feel'?
#6
Bloggsworth
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Posted 31 October 2009 - 22:00
Having watched motor racing since 1957, driven a bit, mechaniced a lot, I have come to one inescapable conclusion, that the best drivers drive their cars better than the not so fast drivers.......................................
#7
Guest_4L3X_*
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Posted 31 October 2009 - 23:15
Just my 02c
Watching my wife drive in "anger" couple of years ago, I noticed she would spun, or nearly so, at the same corner, about the same speed. It was like she was not paying attention: revs dropped - didn't corrected; too much time lost with the clutch - afraid to wreck the gears; etc. but she said she was having loads of fun. I shook my head and said it could be way more fun if you bothered to learn how to do to go faster etc. to no avail. When I did, I said: see, this way it's faster, she: really, I didn't noticed.
It was like she was not interested , but she loves to drive fast, so it was not that: she was not interested because there was nothing to "see" there.
I suspect a successful race car driver would think the same about my driving: "it's like he is not paying attention, look at his moves, can't he read the track/tires/etc.?" He could tell me exactly what's going to happen, or what I should do, and I would not even know if it indeed happened already or not! It should be obvious to me, but if I can't see it, there's no help training, practicing, or whatever. That's what's called "natural ability": to perceive that something's going on, get an interest in it, and figure out a way around it. The only common goal is to go faster, and there's a lot of way to get it, or to read and interpret it, and ultimately, react to it (or more likely to prevent it from happening in the first place).
What I'm trying to say is that a race car driver perceives (not only or mainly visually, I'm talking about the whole experience here) more subtle differences in that particular environment (man/car/surface), have an interest in that (therefore is willing to go through all the training necessary to be successful, be it physical training, memorization, telemetry study, visualization, etc.), and can teach himself to react to those differences next lap/next time, seemingly before they can slow them down. It's not about reflexes, as many think, it's about anticipation, or something that was read/experienced before, and the subtle react necessary to predict and re-act accordingly...fast.
Watching my wife drive in "anger" couple of years ago, I noticed she would spun, or nearly so, at the same corner, about the same speed. It was like she was not paying attention: revs dropped - didn't corrected; too much time lost with the clutch - afraid to wreck the gears; etc. but she said she was having loads of fun. I shook my head and said it could be way more fun if you bothered to learn how to do to go faster etc. to no avail. When I did, I said: see, this way it's faster, she: really, I didn't noticed.
It was like she was not interested , but she loves to drive fast, so it was not that: she was not interested because there was nothing to "see" there.
I suspect a successful race car driver would think the same about my driving: "it's like he is not paying attention, look at his moves, can't he read the track/tires/etc.?" He could tell me exactly what's going to happen, or what I should do, and I would not even know if it indeed happened already or not! It should be obvious to me, but if I can't see it, there's no help training, practicing, or whatever. That's what's called "natural ability": to perceive that something's going on, get an interest in it, and figure out a way around it. The only common goal is to go faster, and there's a lot of way to get it, or to read and interpret it, and ultimately, react to it (or more likely to prevent it from happening in the first place).
What I'm trying to say is that a race car driver perceives (not only or mainly visually, I'm talking about the whole experience here) more subtle differences in that particular environment (man/car/surface), have an interest in that (therefore is willing to go through all the training necessary to be successful, be it physical training, memorization, telemetry study, visualization, etc.), and can teach himself to react to those differences next lap/next time, seemingly before they can slow them down. It's not about reflexes, as many think, it's about anticipation, or something that was read/experienced before, and the subtle react necessary to predict and re-act accordingly...fast.
#8
jockellis
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Posted 01 November 2009 - 19:50
The absolute best seem to know that they can go a little faster and they can overcome that fear that might keep them from doing it. Remember the story about Jackie Stewart telling the other drivers that his accelerator stuck and he had to go around a corner at full speed. Jim Clark said, "So, Jackie, are you saying that you normally lift there?" Stewart was humiliated beyond belief because he realized that while he was telling the other drivers that he couldn't believe he got through the corner, the greatest driver of the time normally flatfooted it. The question is, did Stewart flatfoot it; did everyone else flatfoot it the next time out. They all knew it could be done.
Jock Ellis
Jock Ellis
