61 replies to this topic

[Rainer Nyberg]

Curious on dixieland/skiffle bandleader Chris Barber´s involvement in motorsports.
Can anyone fill me in?

Rainer

[David J Jones]

From memory he raced a Lotus Elite. I will see if I cam turn up some more

[john winfield]

I wonder if anyone can help me with a Chris Barber question. Like the blogger on the link below, I bought this card and have always wondered what the story is and who the subjects are. Chris Barber, obviously, and is that one of the Padgett brothers on the Padgett Yamaha? I haven't a clue about the cyclists but who is that sitting on the Lotus? I'm sure I should know him.

http://www.google.co...p...ch:1&itbs=1

[Giraffe]

Could it be Mike Crabtree who drove the Polydor / Chris Barber Racing Lotus 47? The Padgetts lived around the corner from me when I lived in Batley, West Yorkshire but it was years after this pic and I don't recognise the bike rider.

Whilst on the subject, here is John Shinton's splendid model of the Chris Barber Racing Lotus 62 as driven by Dave Brodie


By giraffe138 at 2011-02-28

Edited by Giraffe, 28 February 2011 - 14:04.

[Bloggsworth]

The registration number of the Elite was, if memory serves, the apposite DAD10...

After the British GP, the Chris Barber Band would play and Ottilie Patterson sing from the timing tower, and we would stomp on the pit straight.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 28 February 2011 - 14:25.

[john winfield]

Thanks Tony and Bloggs. Mike Crabtree was the name that I was searching for but had him muddled in my mind with Mike Beckwith, the F3 and Citroen-Maserati driver. My memory is going.......
Strange that you should mention Ottilie Patterson. This morning I heard a version of 'I wish I could Shimmy like my Sister Kate' by the Ditty Bops. That led me to an earlier cover by CB featuring OP and that reminded me of this intriguing photo, used by, I think, Cancer Research for one of their greeting cards.

[Tuboscocca]

The registration number of the Elite was, if memory serves, the apposite DAD10...

After the British GP, the Chris Barber Band would play and Ottilie Patterson sing from the timing tower, and we would stomp on the pit straight.

I think it was CB 23??

Michael

[bradbury west]

The registration number of the Elite was, if memory serves, the apposite DAD10...

Apposite only if referring to Les Leston's Elite. IIRC the number was simply made up, to represent the period terminology among beatnik-era jazz enthusiasts, ( remember the brouhaha at Beaulieu in the late 50s at the jazz festival there?) rather akin to "man" or "way/far out" later in the 60s. AFAIK the number was never registered in period with whatever the equivalent was of the DVLA.
Roger Lund

[Amphicar]

On the subject of jazz and motor racing, Curios (http://www.curiosmusic.com/), a trio led by pianist Tom Cawley featured two tracks celebrating Jenson Button on their 2010 album The Other Place:

Belief "an anthemic, stately tune" and

2009 World Champion "an oblique melody"

The album cover features a racing Ferrari 166 MM Barchetta (I think), though not driven by JB:



Tom Cawley and bassist Sam Burgess are both hardcore F1 fans - their previous album, Closer featured three F1 inspired tracks: Trackside View, Jenson and Roebuck.

[Paglesham]

I have a picture of the Piper GTR with Chris Barber Racing on the rear wing.

I remember that when he'd start playing at the end of a Brands Clubbie, we'd all head for the hills, like when the Queen is played in a cinema!
I HATE trad jazz. Seemed like everyone else did too.

Martin

[Bloggsworth]

I mixed up the names again, again...

I love trad jazz so I, and many others, stayed...

[Thundersports]

He used to do concerts at a school I attended (sometimes) in Tonbridge kent.

[glyn parham]

He used to do concerts at a school I attended (sometimes) in Tonbridge kent.

Organised by the art teacher Mr Best (who also had a model tramway running around his classroom) IIRC from my seven years internment (sorry education) there.

Glyn

Edited by glyn parham, 01 March 2011 - 09:08.

[Sharman]

I have a picture of the Piper GTR with Chris Barber Racing on the rear wing.

I remember that when he'd start playing at the end of a Brands Clubbie, we'd all head for the hills, like when the Queen is played in a cinema!
I HATE trad jazz. Seemed like everyone else did too.

Martin

Go and wash your mouth out this instant

[GD66]

Seem to recall he dropped in from time to time to see the Ditton Road Flyers, I know Mike Hailwood played clarinet with him at the odd party and fellow bike racer Tony Godfrey likewise with the drums.

[Nigel Beresford]

If I recall correctly, he played at Ken Tyrrell's memorial service at Guildford cathedral. It was quite the musical occasion, with Kiri Te Kanawa singing at one point too.

[Alan Cox]

The album cover features a racing Ferrari 166 MM Barchetta (I think), though not driven by JB:

That car is actually the ex-Cliff Davis Tojiero-Bristol driven in the pic by Nick Wigley. I believe that's a Simon Arron photograph - on their website one of the llinks is to his F1 Diary.
http://www.ultimatec...ol-Special.html
Regarding Chris Barber, he is still on the road at 80, and last Friday was at the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester with his old mates, Acker Bilk and Kenny Ball.

Edited by Alan Cox, 01 March 2011 - 09:33.

[elansprint72]

Chris Barber was a big cycling fan and sponsored teams from the 1960s until at least the 1980s, firstly the Chris Barber Coventry Eagle team, Chris Barber Sun Huret team and later the Chris Barber Geoffrey Butler Cycles team. The photo shows the Sun team so I think this was probably 1969, 70 or 71.

[Alan Cox]

I haven't a clue about the cyclists but who is that sitting on the Lotus? I'm sure I should know him.

More likely John Hine, I would suggest, though I can't recall what he looked like. In my mind he was the driver who raced the 47 for CB.
http://www.mikehaywa...-silverston.htm

[Giraffe]

More likely John Hine, I would suggest, though I can't recall what he looked like. In my mind he was the driver who raced the 47 for CB.
http://www.mikehaywa...-silverston.htm

With the assistance of the FIA Yellow Book for 1970, I think you could be correct in that suggestion, Alan.

(Mike Crabtree did race the Chris Barber 47 on occasion aswell).


By giraffe138 at 2011-03-01


By giraffe138 at 2011-03-01

Edited by Giraffe, 01 March 2011 - 10:17.

[john winfield]

First class detective work! Thanks to Elan, Alan and Tony. I never knew what John Hine looked like either (I always associate him with the Chevrons, B19 etc.) but it clearly is him, and a Lotus photo on Mike Hayward's website shows his open face helmet, as worn by the cyclist on the right.
Apart from the biker on the left, that's it. Thanks. Unless someone recognises the location. And the tune they're playing. And the photographer of course (It's a Getty Image copyright now I believe).

[Giraffe]

First class detective work! Thanks to Elan, Alan and Tony. I never knew what John Hine looked like either (I always associate him with the Chevrons, B19 etc.) but it clearly is him, and a Lotus photo on Mike Hayward's website shows his open face helmet, as worn by the cyclist on the right.
Apart from the biker on the left, that's it. Thanks. Unless someone recognises the location. And the tune they're playing. And the photographer of course (It's a Getty Image copyright now I believe).

It's either Peter or Don Padgett & it looks very like Batley Park to me................

[Lotus47]

Curious on dixieland/skiffle bandleader Chris Barber´s involvement in motorsports.
Can anyone fill me in?

Rainer

Hi,

My name is Richard Mann. I just joined the group after seeing this post. I now own the Chris Barber Lotus 47. I bought it in 2009 and shipped it to my home in Melbourne Australia.

Chris initially bought a very early Elite, chassis #1009, which was registered CB 23. It is in the Dennis Ortenburger book. I'm not sure how regularly he competed.

He then went on to own an Elan, but I am not sure if it was a 26R. His next purchase was the Lotus 47, chassis #3. It was campaigned in many international races and is listed as the most raced 47. John Hine was the main driver.

http://www.racingspo...e/47-GT-03.html

Finally he bought one of the Lotus 62.

The 47 is half restored. I'm currently trying to work out what colour it was. The Elite was possibly painted Conway or Sunburst Yellow, which is a pale lime green colour. I'm not sure if the 47 was the same colour. I've contacted Chris Barber and he can't remember what the colour was.

Anyway, I have a few years work ahead of me before I get around to painting it. I've managed to collect a few colour snaps of the car thru LAT and Richard Styles, and was hoping some of you forum members might have some as well.

While I'm at it, does anyone have any contact details for John Hine?


Regards to all
Richard Mann
47-GT-3

[Giraffe]

Hi Richard, I remember the 47 as the same pale lime green; surely the colour pics you have confirm this?
Do you know if Chris' 62 was the car that Alex Bollinger now has in California or the one that's in Japan?

[Lotus47]

Hi Richard, I remember the 47 as the same pale lime green; surely the colour pics you have confirm this?
Do you know if Chris' 62 was the car that Alex Bollinger now has in California or the one that's in Japan?

I have about 6 colour photos of 47-GT-3 in 1967/8/9, plus a colour photo which is reputedly Chris' Elite #1009. I also have a bit of colour footage of the 1967 BOAC 500 and a snippet of the Barber 62. In each case the colour looks quite different! None of them look like Sunburst yellow, most of them look "avocado" and the BOAC footage looks distinctly like Lotus L13 Pistachio Lime green. The car is currently in undercoat, but in odd places (like under the dash!) there are splashes of a bright grassy green colour - all very confusing. I'll rub off the undercoat before I paint the car to see how well the repairs were done some 18 years ago. I hope to find some "original" colour then.
Thanks for your observation. You are my first "eye witness".

Sorry I can't help with confirmed info on the 62. I checked http://www.racingspo...e/Lotus/62.html
but the Barber car does not quote the chassis number. I assume it is chassis #1 which Bollinger now owns.

[Giraffe]

You should try Richard Styles site for more images of the car


By giraffe138 at 2011-04-04

http://www.richardst...tography.co.uk/

However I am unable to enter it......

Edited by Giraffe, 05 April 2011 - 06:03.

[Lotus47]

You should try Richard Styles site for more images of the car


By giraffe138 at 2011-04-04

http://www.richardst...tography.co.uk/

However I am unable to enter it......

I have been in contact with Richard Styles and he sent me a high quality scan of a colour slide showing the side of the car. There is a low quality scan in another post. The colours look quite different in the scans, plus they don't look particularly like the Elite colour Sunburt Yellow.

[elansprint72]

Whilst not an expert on Type 47s, or the other Europas I would hazard that it is unlikely that the original colour was stock L13 Pistachio. The first batch of Elan Sprints with this colour seems to have been produced in December 71 and, given the nature of Lotus at that time, it would not be unreasonable to believe that it appeared on the Europa at the same time. Of course lots of earlier cars have since been re-painted in colours which were not available when they were built.

The attached photo is clearly not a perfect colour rendition but, even so, it looks a different hue from L13.

Edited by elansprint72, 05 April 2011 - 08:01.

[Sharman]

Whilst not an expert on Type 47s, or the other Europas I would hazard that it is unlikely that the original colour was stock L13 Pistachio. The first batch of Elan Sprints with this colour seems to have been produced in December 71 and, given the nature of Lotus at that time, it would not be unreasonable to believe that it appeared on the Europa at the same time. Of course lots of earlier cars have since been re-painted in colours which were not available when they were built.

The attached photo is clearly not a perfect colour rendition but, even so, it looks a different hue from L13.

Peter
Can you check your PMs
JSF

[Alan Cox]

Anyway, I have a few years work ahead of me before I get around to painting it. I've managed to collect a few colour snaps of the car thru LAT and Richard Styles, and was hoping some of you forum members might have some as well.

I have a copy of Road and Track featuring a report of the 1967 Nurburgring 1000kms which includes a photo of the Barber 47. It's very definitely a lime green rather than any shade of yellow.

[Lotus47]

I have a copy of Road and Track featuring a report of the 1967 Nurburgring 1000kms which includes a photo of the Barber 47. It's very definitely a lime green rather than any shade of yellow.

Sunburst Yellow is very definitely green!

I have a colour photo of the car at Nurburging 1000 in 1968 (car #92) where it is looking very green - a much stronger colour than the Elite Sunburst Yellow. I'm not aware of any colour photos from the Nurburgring 1000 in 1967 (car #42). Can you please confirm which month the magazine is from in 1967? I'll buy a copy. I do have a cracking shot of the car in 1967 with its front wheels in the air at the Nurburgring 1000. It is LAT copyright so I can't post it on this forum unfortunately.

I have tried loading a few photos but been unsuccessful. It does seem that the Pistachio lime green is a colour from the early 1970's.

[elansprint72]

Sunburst Yellow is very definitely green!................

............................... It does seem that the Pistachio lime green is a colour from the early 1970's.

Agreed.

That's why I troubled myself to look up the dates in the Lotus "archives".

[Giraffe]

Dover docks 1962, and Chris Barber's Lotus Elite begins it's journey to Spa, followed by the similar car of John Dickinson.


By giraffe138 at 2011-09-28

Photo courtesy of Ron Bennett.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Great picture , the Team Elite Bedford in front , and new to me the Barber equipe !

[Giraffe]

Great picture , the Team Elite Bedford in front , and new to me the Barber equipe !

The photo annotations are a little confusing, stating "Team Elite - Chris Barber - John Dickinson" although I thought Dickinson drove the Team Garnett Elite. The results that I can find are unclear too, so I best refer back to Ron Bennett.

[Alan Cox]

Didn't John Dickinson drive the Team Garnett Lotus 11 GT?

[bradbury west]

Didn't John Dickinson drive the Team Garnett Lotus 11 GT?

Quod vide;
http://www.racingspo...05-20-4974.html
Scroll down 9 cars.
The car, along with other Eleven GT variants, is covered in Graham Capel's Lotus Eleven book.
Roger Lund

[Bjorn Kjer]

thanks for awaking me , I noticed the cambridge but not the trailer untill now !

[Tuboscocca]

Quod vide;
http://www.racingspo...05-20-4974.html
Scroll down 9 cars.
The car, along with other Eleven GT variants, is covered in Graham Capel's Lotus Eleven book.
Roger Lund

Roger: do you mean ORTENBURGER's Eleven book--or did I miss something??

Michael

[ExFlagMan]

If the colour on the model is indicative of the real thing then I would suggest Fords 'LeMans Green' from the early 70's. I had a Mk1 1300 Escort Sport in that colour. Lotus also used the colour on road going Europa's of that period.

I seem to recall that the colour looked paler when photographed, as the shot of the real thing shows and also over time my Escort faded somewhat from its original lurid hue.

[David McKinney]

No, Graham Capel wrote a book on Lotus XIs, based from what I remember on factory chassis records and photos lifted from Autosport. I no longer have it, and don't recall the title

[Tuboscocca]

No, Graham Capel wrote a book on Lotus XIs, based from what I remember on factory chassis records and photos lifted from Autosport. I no longer have it, and don't recall the title

Thanks David!

Can anyone provide the bibliograhical details??

Never heard of this title of Graham Capel??

Best regards Michael

Stupid me!! 'Lotus the Historic Years 1956-58' is subtitled: The history of the Lotus Eleven...1995
Must be the title you mentioned!

Edited by Tuboscocca, 04 October 2011 - 21:13.

[john winfield]

With the assistance of the FIA Yellow Book for 1970, I think you could be correct in that suggestion, Alan.

(Mike Crabtree did race the Chris Barber 47 on occasion aswell).


By giraffe138 at 2011-03-01


By giraffe138 at 2011-03-01

A post from John Ryan on the Chris Barber website identifies the motorcyclist, the location and the occasion.

"The motorcyclist is Terry Grotefeld, The race driver is John Hine, I can' remember the name of the cyclist....the photo was taken at the launch of Chris Barber Racing at the restuarant on the Serpentine in Hyde Park.

I don't know the date....

Regards

John"

[Cirrus]

Sorry for going a bit OT, but in the mid-eighties I used to go to Aldershot dry ski slope every Tuesday for what was euphemistically described as "slalom training" (there were only about three people who looked competent and I wasn't one of them). Anyway, I got chatting to a guy there one evening and he said his name was John Hine "What, the racing driver?" I asked. He seemed quite shocked that anyone would have heard of him, but we had a very pleasant chat in between picking up slalom pole bruises and Dendix burns.

JH was a very capable driver who ran competitively in Formula Junior and later on was a very reliable and quick driver of Chevron sports cars. Is he still around?

Edited by Cirrus, 10 December 2011 - 17:59.

[bradbury west]

Did John Hine race a Marcos, '61-ish? ISTR him in one at an Oulton opener.
Roger Lund

[David McKinney]

Possibly, though I remember his name as an FJ man - drove a Cooper in that famous Boxing Day Brands Hatch race in 1959, graduated to works Lolas in 1961, and after Ron Harris took over that team, moved with him to Team Lotus in 1963

Before that I think he drove small Lotus sportscars, but he might have fitted a Marcos in somewhere

[bradbury west]

You are more than likely right. I recall him in the Lola FJ, as in that event I remember the name of one of the teams, Scuderia Light Blue. I know I saw a Marcos or 2 hurtling down the Avenue towards Cascades and the name Hine rang a bell. Probably Julian Sutton's car or Dave Rees' Ashley Smithy car in 61 or 62. . The problem I have is that when I was loaned a vast array of Oulton programmes I copied only the ones featuring the marque in which I am specifically interested, plus others of pure historic or representative interest, and so for '61 I have only heat 2 of the FJ race entry, plus sports etc. I should have copied the lot. I know Dick Prior was an early Marcos-ist, the car which Tommy Webber later had in '62. OT I know, apologies.
RL

[Sharman]

You are more than likely right. I recall him in the Lola FJ, as in that event I remember the name of one of the teams, Scuderia Light Blue. I know I saw a Marcos or 2 hurtling down the Avenue towards Cascades and the name Hine rang a bell. Probably Julian Sutton's car or Dave Rees' Ashley Smithy car in 61 or 62. . The problem I have is that when I was loaned a vast array of Oulton programmes I copied only the ones featuring the marque in which I am specifically interested, plus others of pure historic or representative interest, and so for '61 I have only heat 2 of the FJ race entry, plus sports etc. I should have copied the lot. I know Dick Prior was an early Marcos-ist, the car which Tommy Webber later had in '62. OT I know, apologies.
RL

Steve Minoprio Roger

...and weren't Scuderia Light Blue CUAC under another name?

Edited by Sharman, 11 December 2011 - 08:29.

[David McKinney]

In your defence, Roger, I always link the names of Hine and Prior together. I'm sure they either shared cars at one point, or were in a team together. Which has nothing to do with Marcoses - or Chris Barber, for that matter

[Sharman]

In your defence, Roger, I always link the names of Hine and Prior together. I'm sure they either shared cars at one point, or were in a team together. Which has nothing to do with Marcoses - or Chris Barber, for that matter

I spoke to John Hine last year or the year before asking for some Chevron info on a B23, he said he had never driven for that team, even though the entries and results are recorded. I suspect that first hand information is gone for ever.