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Toyota run-aways [not F-1]


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#1051 Zoe

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 07:08

Well, the way my dad drives today it would not make a big difference whether the car had a V8 or a DKW two-stroke engine :)

Talking about a sluggish throttle repsone, I think that this is programmed into the ECU today; Dad's Peugeot van (which I inherited) has a turbo engine, but a huge throttle delay both when stepping on the gas or when going off it. My old Celica Supra however is really kickin it whenever you just touch the throttle...

Zoe

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#1052 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 21:05

My nephew, after being given a V6 Toymotor Hi Lux by his previous employer, started a thread on another forum about the throttle response thing...

It's been converted to a rage about the 'floor mat' issue, the lies from Toymotor Australia etc.

#1053 desmo

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 22:26

I put a few hundred miles on a Toyota Tacoma PU with AT this past weekend and found an annoying disconnect between throttle pedal and engine response, but I just figured that's what focus groups of fat old Americans tell them they like so they build them that way. I also noticed on uphills sometimes the CC would accelerate hard a good 4-5mph past the set speed the CC obviously calling up WOT or close to it, but a jab on the brakes stopped it. I think the CC was overrunning the set speed to get to the upshift rpm point. That's what it seemed like.

I don't get automatic transmissions at all. Why?

#1054 gruntguru

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 22:39

I also noticed on uphills sometimes the CC would accelerate hard a good 4-5mph past the set speed the CC obviously calling up WOT or close to it, but a jab on the brakes stopped it.


Sounds like the "Integral" function of a PID controller, trying to make up for the period when speed was below the set point.

#1055 Greg Locock

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 01:48

Sounds like the "Integral" function of a PID controller, trying to make up for the period when speed was below the set point.


I've been driving a Kluger/Highlander the past few weeks, and I'd say that Toyota don't seem to spend much effort finessing their electronics. The ESC light seems to come on at the strangest times. Also the steering calibration is curious, although to be fair it isn't much worse than the new X5's, which is a bloated parody of what used to be my favourite car.

#1056 McGuire

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 11:58

The latest Prius has a driver-selectable feature called "eco mode" in which, among other things, pedal response is attenuated to squeeze out a little more mpg. Pedal-to-throttle response is a tunable feature in ETC.

Among other things, it's a function of the number and style of pedal sensors and the calibration target(s). European consumers demand tight pedal response, or so it is said. Probably related to the greater percentage of manual transmissions than most anywhere else. ETC on Toyota and M-B have always been a bit vague... or at least that is their rep; observers tend to believe so and I tend to agree. Your typical Ford, GM. etc. straight off the rental car lot will have linear ETC response, more or less indistinguishable from a cable, though the pedal feel might not be identical.

There is no good reason for an electronic cruise control to overshoot its resume speed, other than sloppy engineering. Seems to be a common complaint, though.

#1057 McGuire

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 12:24

Good for him! He comes from a generation that a) wanted to know things, b) was expected to know things and c) systems were purely mechanical and logical.


I am a big fan of automatic transmissions... but if I were ruler for life with unlimited powers, like Kim Jong-Il, maybe I would require novice drivers to operate stick-shift cars only for their first two or three years on the road.

A story: when my #1 daughter was 16 I took her car shopping at a friend's dealership, inspected a handful of cars for her from which she could select (she was paying). The following Monday she came home from the lot with a totally different car (that's how she rolled) that happened to be a stick... and she had never driven one until then. When I asked her how she had driven it home, she rolled her eyes at me in the way only daughters can do and said, "Daddy, I'm not an idiot. It's no different than riding a dirt bike," leaving me standing there wondering, WHAT DIRT BIKE? Now she is a 30-year old mother of two and I can't wait to tell those children a few stories.




#1058 Zoe

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 12:56

Just stumbled across this quote:

Increasingly, people seem to misinterpret complexity as sophistication, which is baffling---the incomprehensible should cause suspicion rather than admiration. Possibly this trend results from a mistaken belief that using a somewhat mysterious device confers an aura of power on the user. -- Niklaus Wirth

While originally said in the context of software design, it also applies to any technical thingamagicks, modern cars included. I'm still a fan of the K.I.S.S. principle!

Zoe

#1059 Todd

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:48

I am a big fan of automatic transmissions... but if I were ruler for life with unlimited powers, like Kim Jong-Il, maybe I would require novice drivers to operate stick-shift cars only for their first two or three years on the road.

A story: when my #1 daughter was 16 I took her car shopping at a friend's dealership, inspected a handful of cars for her from which she could select (she was paying). The following Monday she came home from the lot with a totally different car (that's how she rolled) that happened to be a stick... and she had never driven one until then. When I asked her how she had driven it home, she rolled her eyes at me in the way only daughters can do and said, "Daddy, I'm not an idiot. It's no different than riding a dirt bike," leaving me standing there wondering, WHAT DIRT BIKE? Now she is a 30-year old mother of two and I can't wait to tell those children a few stories.


That is the same way that I learned how to drive a stick. Easy transition from YZ80 to Lancia Fulvia at the age of 9. Mind you I learned to ride the YZ80 by simply lying to its owner and saying I knew how. I also dazzled my father with my driving the day I got my learner's permit. What a natural! Of course I'd been borrowing his cars without him knowing for years at that point.

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#1060 VAR1016

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 18:51

That is the same way that I learned how to drive a stick. Easy transition from YZ80 to Lancia Fulvia at the age of 9. Mind you I learned to ride the YZ80 by simply lying to its owner and saying I knew how. I also dazzled my father with my driving the day I got my learner's permit. What a natural! Of course I'd been borrowing his cars without him knowing for years at that point.


A Lancia Fulvia?

Excellent taste.

If FIAT puts Lancia to death as is rumoured, then I will never ever have anything to do with FIAT again.

#1061 Todd

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 19:05

A Lancia Fulvia?

Excellent taste.

If FIAT puts Lancia to death as is rumoured, then I will never ever have anything to do with FIAT again.


It was already a used up old competition car kept on a farm by 1978. I've looked for it a few times, but it was either sold for scrap or allowed to rust into the Virginia countryside decades ago. Wasn't the last Lancia the Gamma? There have been Lancia skinned or badged cars since, but I think that was the last one with a Lancia engine.

#1062 desmo

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 21:28

Last I read FIAT was looking at merging Lancia and Chrysler into one product line. Imagine Lancias built in the US. Could happen I guess.

#1063 McGuire

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 22:21

Last I read FIAT was looking at merging Lancia and Chrysler into one product line. Imagine Lancias built in the US. Could happen I guess.


At the Walter P. Chrysler Museum in Auburn Hills, Michigan they have a great big board showing the company's family tree. Complicated diagram to say the least, as it includes Maxwell, Chalmers, Dodge, Graham, Nash, Hudson, AMC, Willys, etc, etc. Looks like they might soon be needing another panel.

#1064 cheapracer

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 02:36

I am a big fan of automatic transmissions... but if I were ruler for life with unlimited powers, like Kim Jong-Il, maybe I would require novice drivers to operate stick-shift cars only for their first two or three years on the road.

A story: when my #1 daughter was 16 I took her car shopping at a friend's dealership, inspected a handful of cars for her from which she could select (she was paying). The following Monday she came home from the lot with a totally different car (that's how she rolled) that happened to be a stick... and she had never driven one until then. When I asked her how she had driven it home, she rolled her eyes at me in the way only daughters can do and said, "Daddy, I'm not an idiot. It's no different than riding a dirt bike," leaving me standing there wondering, WHAT DIRT BIKE? Now she is a 30-year old mother of two and I can't wait to tell those children a few stories.



Auto's rock but I am getting old! Especially in traffic.

A story: When my #1 daughter was 14 I was standing on the front balcony and she flew past on the street on her bicycle quite fast and just layed it in to the neighbors driveway and around their shed. She was near scraping the inner pedal and hanging off the bike with all her weight over the front with the front tyre leaving rubber and she flopped it over and did the same thing around the shed (right left combo). I went downstairs and out onto the street as she came around again from the back street and she did exactly the same again. My jaw dropped - she would have embarrassed Valentino Rossi, she had a genuine natural talent on a bike.

I stopped her and asked quietly what was she doing? "Just having fun, am I going fast Dad?" - I said it was time to come in and not long after that I started her driving lessons which she loved and took her interest from her bike, I never mentioned it to her and of course never encouraged her on a bike (I've spent my whole life on and off bikes, love 'em but I don't reccommend them).

#1065 VAR1016

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 06:27

It was already a used up old competition car kept on a farm by 1978. I've looked for it a few times, but it was either sold for scrap or allowed to rust into the Virginia countryside decades ago. Wasn't the last Lancia the Gamma? There have been Lancia skinned or badged cars since, but I think that was the last one with a Lancia engine.


Yes the Gamma was the last, but of course there was plenty of FIAT in it. I was manager at a Lancia specialist in London; we christened the Gamma "the kettle" - fastest means of boiling water known to man.

The Integrale on the other hand is a Lancia.

#1066 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 09:21

Just heard a news break that Toymota are recalling a 100000 Corrollas in Brazil with throttle problems.


#1067 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 11:26

Wonder if the Brazilians get their throttles from the same place as the Australians?

It's crazy. The whole world, except Australia basically, has Toymotors being recalled and here it's just a matter of them saying they use a different supplier and nobody thinks ill of them. They aren't being investigated, they get away with saying 'it's the floor mats!' and nothing's done!

#1068 Todd

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 19:04

Yes the Gamma was the last, but of course there was plenty of FIAT in it. I was manager at a Lancia specialist in London; we christened the Gamma "the kettle" - fastest means of boiling water known to man.

The Integrale on the other hand is a Lancia.


What made the Delta Integrale a Lancia?

#1069 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 22:59

Wonder if the Brazilians get their throttles from the same place as the Australians?

It's crazy. The whole world, except Australia basically, has Toymotors being recalled and here it's just a matter of them saying they use a different supplier and nobody thinks ill of them. They aren't being investigated, they get away with saying 'it's the floor mats!' and nothing's done!

I thought you would be interested. I did not see the news last night so I know nothing more.
Since Aussie Toyotas are largely assembled from o/s mechanical parts I hazard a guess that they are the same in the fly by wire area.


#1070 VAR1016

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 07:11

What made the Delta Integrale a Lancia?


Handling, poise, effectiveness - and from time to time, a degree of temperament!

#1071 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 07:14

They're probably the same all over the world...

I have no hesitation in believing that Toymotor Australia are lying all the way. I still want someone with computer skills to help me turn their logo into a millstone.

#1072 saudoso

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 11:27

Just heard a news break that Toymota are recalling a 100000 Corrollas in Brazil with throttle problems.

Believe it or not, Toyota has an agreement in court to bring in those 100.000 Corollas to *fix mat fixtures that could get the gas pedal stuck*

It's been a while that I don't follow this issue but I think the mat stunt was a smoke curtain, right?

#1073 Catalina Park

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 12:24

Was it a Toyota?
http://www.abc.net.a.../25/2882295.htm
http://www.smh.com.a...00425-tl71.html



#1074 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 20:27

Originally posted by saudoso
Believe it or not, Toyota has an agreement in court to bring in those 100.000 Corollas to *fix mat fixtures that could get the gas pedal stuck*

It's been a while that I don't follow this issue but I think the mat stunt was a smoke curtain, right?


Quite right...

A method of quietly getting the cars into the dealerships so they can work on the ECUs.

#1075 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 21:54

Quite right...

A method of quietly getting the cars into the dealerships so they can work on the ECUs.

The floor mats are Aussie made for Toyota but ofcourse to the Japanese specifications.
No real design work done in Oz, just assembly and pressing for Corrollas and Camrys

#1076 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 07:07

They never made any claims about the floor mats...

Of pertinence, they said that the 'accelerator pedals' come from a different supplier to all those used overseas.

#1077 Ian G

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 23:18

, I presume the car was auto,most are these days, I was told about it by a third party as a by the way. It would make sense though people panic and do not clutch just stand on the brake [or less] From what I gathered the driver probably would have stopped without incident except for the traffic bankup.
I saw a 635 BMW crash at Collingrove hillclimb years ago when the throttle jammed and the driver panicked and ended up in the crowd, did not hit the clutch.



I saw a Mini go into the River at the Bungool(spell?) picnic grounds,now the Riverside Oaks Golf course,near Windsor(Sydney) around 1968/69. It was a MotorKhana and the throttle stuck full open on a pair of SU's(IIRC),why the driver couldn't control via the brakes and clutch i don't know,i think some personalities/mind sets just freeze in an emergency.



#1078 cheapracer

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:19

Wow a car with SUA because of floor matts! - hmm where have I heard that line before....

http://smh.drive.com...00519-veb4.html

It’s not just Toyota that’s troubled by floor mats and “unintended acceleration”.
Ford's Australian-built Territory soft-roader has been recalled for the same safety issue that led to a huge Toyota recall in the United States.

Nearly 5000 Territorys are affected by floor mats that can get stuck underneath the vehicle's accelerator pedal, potentially causing "unintended acceleration", the same issue that sparked a recall of more than 8 million Toyotas earlier this year.

Ford Australia says it has received two reports of the driver's floor mat getting caught underneath the accelerator and impeding the engine from returning to idle. In the first instance the driver of the Territory was unable to stop the car and leaped from the vehicle while it was still moving. The driver escaped injury because the car had managed to slow before it came to a stop when it hit a barrier.

The mat in question is a Ford Genuine Accessory, and not a standard feature of the car. According to Ford it is only the black mat with silver 'Territory' writing that causes the problem, with none of the colour mats part of the recall. The mat has been on sale since June 2009 with the first reported incident taking place in March.

Ford Australia spokesman Todd Nissen said the problem was "nowhere near the scale and nature" of the Toyota problem.

"We don't see it as an issue at all," he said. "There are no safety or performance issues at all; it's a problem with the mat... We see it that the reputation of the brand is still strong."

Ford is arranging for the 4990 owners with the faulty mats to report to their local Ford dealer for a re-designed mat to be fitted free of charge.

Nissen is adamant that Territory owners should not be concerned with the safety of their vehicles.

"There's no issue with the pedals, the brake or the accelerator, the problem is with the mats getting stuck or bunched up."
Toyota's "unintended acceleration" dramas had two root causes: floor mats that impeded the accelerator and an accelerator pedal cable that was prone to jamming with the throttle open.








#1079 desmo

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 19:12

I had the stock floor mat fray on an edge and foul and the accelerator on an old VW Beetle I had and give me a brief scare. 1 minute with a utility knife and problem solved.

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#1080 Tony Matthews

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 19:57

I had the stock floor mat fray on an edge and foul and the accelerator on an old VW Beetle I had and give me a brief scare. 1 minute with a utility knife and problem solved.

You cut the accelerator off with a utility knife? Wow!

#1081 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 03:57

I had the stock floor mat fray on an edge and foul and the accelerator on an old VW Beetle I had and give me a brief scare. 1 minute with a utility knife and problem solved.

A Vee Dub Beetle went fast enough to give you a scare?

#1082 Tony Matthews

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 07:56

A Vee Dub Beetle went fast enough to give you a scare?

:lol: I suppose it could have happened in a multi-storey car park...

#1083 cheapracer

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:47

A Vee Dub Beetle went fast enough to give you a scare?


:lol: he lived on top of a big hill!

Last time I was in a 36hp Bug with Dad driving we had a great laff trying to get it to 70 mph, very close then hit a hill or headwind or hit a flying insect head on - never quite made it :lol:


#1084 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 04:16

Originally posted by cheapracer
Wow a car with SUA because of floor matts! - hmm where have I heard that line before....

http://smh.drive.com...00519-veb4.html

.....Toyota's "unintended acceleration" dramas had two root causes: floor mats that impeded the accelerator and an accelerator pedal cable that was prone to jamming with the throttle open.


Some people need to keep their eye on the ball...

Toyotas don't have cables to jam.

4990 seems a pretty high number to be out there in one colour of mat since June last year, and not a standard fitment either. They would be, I should think, hard pressed to know which cars have them!

#1085 Greg Locock

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 12:13

Some people need to keep their eye on the ball...

Toyotas don't have cables to jam.

yeah, but journos don't need to have their articles corrected for technical details before they go to press. Or so we've been told.

Edited by Greg Locock, 23 May 2010 - 12:15.


#1086 McGuire

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 20:03

yeah, but journos don't need to have their articles corrected for technical details before they go to press. Or so we've been told.


Sure, let's have Toyota engineers edit all the SUA stories before they run. What a fantastic idea that would be.

We seem to have convinced ourselves that only journalists make errors. Oh really? Let's do some product auditing. Bring out your current model lineup for product audit. Let's see your junk. In the first walkaround I will find more mistakes than can be found in today's Sunday New York Times. So please -- go get over yourself.

NEVER sit next to an engineer at the movies.

#1087 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 20:08

In their defense, it'd probably like when we watch Driven. There's a point of no return...

#1088 Canuck

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 20:25

I think we can differentiate between details that matter only to engineers and those that are fundamental to the story. Toyota's imaginary throttle cable is a significant ball-drop.

#1089 Canuck

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 20:47

We seem to have convinced ourselves that only journalists make errors.

Considering that we're in the middle of a thread about Toyota's obvious engineering screw-up, that sounds a little...self-serving (and way off the mark).

#1090 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 23:35

Originally posted by Greg Locock
Yeah, but journos don't need to have their articles corrected for technical details before they go to press. Or so we've been told.


This was a newspaper item, it could have been written by a motoring journo or a regular journo co-opted to the feature either permanently or temporarily.

I don't know the guys at the Herald these days, but because the by-line is used I would think he's a motoring journo at least on a fairly regular basis.

Fact is, though, that most of this piece would have been written from a FoMoCo press release. Maybe a phone call to check a detail or two, then into print. The flaw was put into the mold back at FoMoCo's PR section and has simply stayed there.

Of course, the one who wrote it might also have been a journo, but that's not the issue. The lack of checking of such articles for accuracy would not come up generally because the motoring journos would be expected to know more about the subject than any sub-editor.

We used to have some nice old gaffs at the SMH when Clyde Hodgins was alive...

#1091 imaginesix

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 04:06

Wow a car with SUA because of floor matts! - hmm where have I heard that line before....

http://smh.drive.com...00519-veb4.html

It’s not just Toyota that’s troubled by floor mats and “unintended acceleration”.
Ford's Australian-built Territory soft-roader has been recalled for the same safety issue that led to a huge Toyota recall in the United States.

Nearly 5000 Territorys are affected by floor mats that can get stuck underneath the vehicle's accelerator pedal, potentially causing "unintended acceleration", the same issue that sparked a recall of more than 8 million Toyotas earlier this year.

Ford Australia says it has received two reports of the driver's floor mat getting caught underneath the accelerator and impeding the engine from returning to idle. In the first instance the driver of the Territory was unable to stop the car and leaped from the vehicle while it was still moving. The driver escaped injury because the car had managed to slow before it came to a stop when it hit a barrier.

The mat in question is a Ford Genuine Accessory, and not a standard feature of the car. According to Ford it is only the black mat with silver 'Territory' writing that causes the problem, with none of the colour mats part of the recall. The mat has been on sale since June 2009 with the first reported incident taking place in March.

Ford Australia spokesman Todd Nissen said the problem was "nowhere near the scale and nature" of the Toyota problem.

"We don't see it as an issue at all," he said. "There are no safety or performance issues at all; it's a problem with the mat... We see it that the reputation of the brand is still strong."

Ford is arranging for the 4990 owners with the faulty mats to report to their local Ford dealer for a re-designed mat to be fitted free of charge.

Nissen is adamant that Territory owners should not be concerned with the safety of their vehicles.

"There's no issue with the pedals, the brake or the accelerator, the problem is with the mats getting stuck or bunched up."

Toyota's "unintended acceleration" dramas had two root causes: floor mats that impeded the accelerator and an accelerator pedal cable that was prone to jamming with the throttle open.


Actually, this is an entirely different line of reasoning. Apparently if the floor mat sticks in a Territory, your engine will no longer idle. Nothing to do with stuck accelerator pedals.

Edited by imaginesix, 28 May 2010 - 04:08.


#1092 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 00:03

That is what trhe warning was about but the press got the story wrong again. more Sensation that way!!

#1093 McGuire

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 12:40

For an example of pure incompetence and misfeasance in media due to total ignorance of all things technical, behold the Gulf oil well disaster. They have no idea what they are talking about, but they just keep talking anyway. They have no conception of the engineering problems involved, so instead they spend three hours analyzing the expression on the president's face to determine if it displayed sufficient empathy in reaction to the situation. Blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH. That's all they know how to do. They have nothing else to bring to the discussion.

I remember that back in the early days of the space program, the television networks used to have competent science editors and reporters. They badly need some now.

#1094 Zoe

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 13:38

I remember that back in the early days of the space program, the television networks used to have competent science editors and reporters. They badly need some now.


Those days are gone forever. Today people do not crave for correct and in-depth information, they want to see popular faces and smalltalk in the current zeitgeist fashion.

Zoe

#1095 Tony Matthews

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 16:24

Those days are gone forever. Today people do not crave for correct and in-depth information, they want to see popular faces and smalltalk in the current zeitgeist fashion.

Zoe

The BBC rolls out its tame pundits on science, technology and medicine, and it is hard to tell if they are as knowledeable and competent as earlier pundits, those from the 'Golden Age' of the BBC. However, there is so much 'dumbing down' in general programs that there is cause for concern. As usual, errors are easy to pick up if the subject under discussion is one that you have some knowledge of, harder if it is not. On the whole, Zoe, I think you are right, certainly in viewers demands - so few people these days seem to care about facts, and accuracy.

#1096 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 22:45

The media has dumbed down the world in the last few decades. Classic example is Global Warming. While noone doubts it is an issue that needs adressing the experts led by an ex US Vicepresident are a bit like Henny Penny. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!! All led by the media and a few shonky politicians who are using it to raise taxes.

The basis of this thread about Toyota is somewhat of a media beatup, though there is defenitly problems with car design which is causing accidents. Though a lot is then exasbarated by driver error.

#1097 gruntguru

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 23:16

The BBC rolls out its tame pundits on science, technology and medicine, and it is hard to tell if they are as knowledeable and competent as earlier pundits, those from the 'Golden Age' of the BBC. However, there is so much 'dumbing down' in general programs that there is cause for concern. As usual, errors are easy to pick up if the subject under discussion is one that you have some knowledge of, harder if it is not. On the whole, Zoe, I think you are right, certainly in viewers demands - so few people these days seem to care about facts, and accuracy.


I tend to blame producers and directors who underestimate the knowledgabilty of their audience. I remember a TV motoring show "technical" presenter telling me he wasn't even allowed to mention terms like "4 valves per cylinder". At the same time, most males I know were panting to hear far deeper technical information. No doubt the "creative" types who fill these positions are at one end of the male population spectrum regarding their interest in automotive technology.

We are all manipulated by spin and misinformation from government, multinational corporations and the media and this is a more subtle version where we get what they think we want to see and hear.

#1098 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 23:19

Originally posted by imaginesix
Actually, this is an entirely different line of reasoning. Apparently if the floor mat sticks in a Territory, your engine will no longer idle. Nothing to do with stuck accelerator pedals.


Actually, the Toyota problem was nothing to do with the pedals either...

It was (and is) to do with the sensors sending false signals of the position of the pedal.

In my sister's case, she literally moved the pedal up an down with her foot several times, there was no change, the engine just kept powering on.

Edited by Ray Bell, 01 June 2010 - 23:26.


#1099 imaginesix

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 03:08

Actually, the Toyota problem was nothing to do with the pedals either...

It was (and is) to do with the sensors sending false signals of the position of the pedal.

In my sister's case, she literally moved the pedal up an down with her foot several times, there was no change, the engine just kept powering on.

The point was that Ford's explanation for their Unintended Acceleration is plainly absurd. They might as well blame a loose roof rack for causing the problem. The floor mat does not control the vehicle's speed.

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#1100 dosco

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 16:12

The media has dumbed down the world in the last few decades. Classic example is Global Warming. While noone doubts it is an issue that needs adressing the experts led by an ex US Vicepresident are a bit like Henny Penny. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!! All led by the media and a few shonky politicians who are using it to raise taxes.


A couple of issues here.

1. News media are money-making companies. They have to manufacture a "wow factor" to keep ratings high and keep the money rolling in.

2. Generally speaking humans seems to be preoccupied with things that will end the world ... even if said thing isn't a realistic problem.