He raced MG TCs in Australia, having competed at Bathurst in 1947 and 1948. At some later time he went to the States to live and raced into the sixties...
What more can we learn about this driver?
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
Elliott Forbes-Robinson
Started by
Ray Bell
, Apr 13 2000 13:35
18 replies to this topic
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#2
Racer.Demon
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Posted 13 April 2000 - 16:56
Ray: in another thread you were wondering if the Elliott Forbes-Robinson you mention is the father of seventies-till-now IMSA and WSC legend Elliott Forbes-Robinson, who in American sportscar circles is commonly known as 'EFR'. Can't answer that, but what I do know is that today's sportscar star is way in his fifties (I think he's 56 or so), a true gentleman racer and a very capable one too!
In the autumn of his career with Rob Dyson's team he took two major sportscar championships (ALMS and USRRC) last year, snatching the titles away from under the noses of the manufacturer-backed favourites - all through sheer consistency, maturity and reliability (which is what sportscar racing is about). He also won the TransAm title in 1982, which your man Horst Kwech won back in '66.
Is your EFR an Australian or an American? Could he have become a US citizen once he went to live and race in the States? With the current EFR in his fifties, he could well have been the IMSA star's dad. The thing is, EFR II doesn't carry the 'Jr' or 'II' tag the Americans are used to...
Cheers,
R.D
In the autumn of his career with Rob Dyson's team he took two major sportscar championships (ALMS and USRRC) last year, snatching the titles away from under the noses of the manufacturer-backed favourites - all through sheer consistency, maturity and reliability (which is what sportscar racing is about). He also won the TransAm title in 1982, which your man Horst Kwech won back in '66.
Is your EFR an Australian or an American? Could he have become a US citizen once he went to live and race in the States? With the current EFR in his fifties, he could well have been the IMSA star's dad. The thing is, EFR II doesn't carry the 'Jr' or 'II' tag the Americans are used to...
Cheers,
R.D
#3
Ray Bell
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Posted 13 April 2000 - 17:16
There's too much coincidence for him not to be the son of the father. I don't know whether he was Australian or American, or indeed a pom, but his racing didn't end at the 1948 Bathurst. I believe (though I have nothing in my own records) that he raced into the fifties here at places like Mt Druitt.. his mount at Bathurst was a stripped TC, and he finished the hundred miler both years.
Anyone know the IMSA/ALMS driver to talk to?
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
Anyone know the IMSA/ALMS driver to talk to?
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#4
Dave Ware
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 00:07
Here is the email address for Dyson racing:
ccdyson@aol.com
This is the web page:
http://www.dysonracing.com/
You might also try Dan Gurney. The Elliott Forbes-Robinson we know drove for AAR in F5000 in '74. It was my understanding at the time that Elliott was a friend of the Gurney family. Could be wrong on that.
http://www.allamericanracers.com/
I first heard of EFR in my September '71 issue of Road and Track; he was co driving a 911 at Le Mans w/ Alan Johnson. The car was entered by Richie Ginther.
Dave
P.S. So I got caught up on the Foller thread; so that's why you started thinking about Elliott Forbes Robinson. Racing tin tops in the States in sixties? Our EFR was about 27 in 1971. From what I read in his bios at the time he did a lot of autocrossing because road racing is dammned expensive. On the cover of Alan Johnson's first edition of "Driving in Competition" are two Porsche 914s being hustled around Riverside by Johnson and EFR. So that was probably around 1970. This was another Richie Ginther team.
I also remember reading that our EFR didn't have the cash to attend a driving school so he'd pay a better driver $50 to watch him drive and critique his technique. So if he had a racing father, the guy wasn't around to help the son, for whatever reason...
EFR worked as a film editor in the movie business before his racing career kicked in.
Such mysteries. I look forward to hearing more about this...
[This message has been edited by Dave Ware (edited 04-13-2000).]
ccdyson@aol.com
This is the web page:
http://www.dysonracing.com/
You might also try Dan Gurney. The Elliott Forbes-Robinson we know drove for AAR in F5000 in '74. It was my understanding at the time that Elliott was a friend of the Gurney family. Could be wrong on that.
http://www.allamericanracers.com/
I first heard of EFR in my September '71 issue of Road and Track; he was co driving a 911 at Le Mans w/ Alan Johnson. The car was entered by Richie Ginther.
Dave
P.S. So I got caught up on the Foller thread; so that's why you started thinking about Elliott Forbes Robinson. Racing tin tops in the States in sixties? Our EFR was about 27 in 1971. From what I read in his bios at the time he did a lot of autocrossing because road racing is dammned expensive. On the cover of Alan Johnson's first edition of "Driving in Competition" are two Porsche 914s being hustled around Riverside by Johnson and EFR. So that was probably around 1970. This was another Richie Ginther team.
I also remember reading that our EFR didn't have the cash to attend a driving school so he'd pay a better driver $50 to watch him drive and critique his technique. So if he had a racing father, the guy wasn't around to help the son, for whatever reason...
EFR worked as a film editor in the movie business before his racing career kicked in.
Such mysteries. I look forward to hearing more about this...
[This message has been edited by Dave Ware (edited 04-13-2000).]
#5
Ray Bell
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Posted 14 April 2000 - 01:01
I've emailed Dyson, so we'll see what sort of reply we'll get...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
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Life and love are mixed with pain...
#6
Dave Ware
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Posted 16 January 2001 - 17:44
Ok Ray, you were right! Last night I'm looking at some old race programs in search of info about John Gunn or Evan Noyes and here is the connection between American's Elliott Forbes-Robinson and Austraila's:
From the '74 Glen F5000/Can Am/6-Hour weekend race program:
Regarding EFR: "The fasination with automobiles and motorsport began 27 years ago, on the other side of the world from where the Glen began its long history in 1948.
For him then it was watching his dad run MG TCs around 50 gallon drums on an airport circuit in Austraila."
The article also mentions that a young Gurney drove EFR's father's Lancia in a rain race in Santa Barbara, and that his father was regarded as "Mr. MG" on the West coast.
Well. That answers that.
Dave
From the '74 Glen F5000/Can Am/6-Hour weekend race program:
Regarding EFR: "The fasination with automobiles and motorsport began 27 years ago, on the other side of the world from where the Glen began its long history in 1948.
For him then it was watching his dad run MG TCs around 50 gallon drums on an airport circuit in Austraila."
The article also mentions that a young Gurney drove EFR's father's Lancia in a rain race in Santa Barbara, and that his father was regarded as "Mr. MG" on the West coast.
Well. That answers that.
Dave
#7
Ray Bell
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Posted 16 January 2001 - 21:08
A much more complete answer than Dyson's, which I am still awaiting....
The 'oil drums...airport' would undoubtedly have been Marsden Park, while Mt Druitt airstrip was probably marked out the same way a little leater on. If the use of the term 'airport' was serious, then these landing strips (that's all they were) might be supplemented by Nowra and Point Cook military bases, used in 1946 and 1948, but any markers there, as far as I know, were haybales.
Thanks for remembering this, Dave.
The 'oil drums...airport' would undoubtedly have been Marsden Park, while Mt Druitt airstrip was probably marked out the same way a little leater on. If the use of the term 'airport' was serious, then these landing strips (that's all they were) might be supplemented by Nowra and Point Cook military bases, used in 1946 and 1948, but any markers there, as far as I know, were haybales.
Thanks for remembering this, Dave.
#8
Allen Brown
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Posted 17 January 2001 - 14:12
There was also a Stuart Forbes-Robinson, I think EFR II's brother, who raced a home-built Lola T330 in the final seasons of SCCA FA.
He actually won the last-ever national FA title in 1977.
Allen
He actually won the last-ever national FA title in 1977.
Allen
#10
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 18:46
Im somewhat confused by this thread, whats the current status of EFR?
#11
petefenelon
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 20:53
Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Im somewhat confused by this thread, whats the current status of EFR?
Still racing, mostly in Grand-Am, and still competitive; Elliott's son passed away earlier this week.
#12
HiRich
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Posted 20 August 2006 - 22:09
On the elder Forbes-Robinson, I've been working through the US magazine scans posted by Bob Nelson about a month back, and think I can add a bit.
In early 1952, one E "Robbie" Forbes-Robinson appears in California (no mention of what the E stands for). His car was one of the first 500s to reach the West Coast. It was a Cooper-JAP, probably a Mk V, and probably new from the factory (Doug's list has several MkVs listed as America - no name, only some of which have been identified). The car had "Red Snapper" signwritten down the engine cover, so we can assume it was red...
Details on "Robbie" so far are limited, but one interview mentions "He's driven the bigger cars on circuits in the United States and Australia". The photo with the article is post-race, and a bit indeterminate (he could be 25 to 45), though he does appear to be enjoying the company of Miss Hot Rod Show 1952.
So I'd suggest this is the Australian Elliot Forbes-Robinson that Ray was originally asking about. And whilst I've been caught out by two Bob Anderons, I would assume it must be father and son.
In early 1952, one E "Robbie" Forbes-Robinson appears in California (no mention of what the E stands for). His car was one of the first 500s to reach the West Coast. It was a Cooper-JAP, probably a Mk V, and probably new from the factory (Doug's list has several MkVs listed as America - no name, only some of which have been identified). The car had "Red Snapper" signwritten down the engine cover, so we can assume it was red...
Details on "Robbie" so far are limited, but one interview mentions "He's driven the bigger cars on circuits in the United States and Australia". The photo with the article is post-race, and a bit indeterminate (he could be 25 to 45), though he does appear to be enjoying the company of Miss Hot Rod Show 1952.
So I'd suggest this is the Australian Elliot Forbes-Robinson that Ray was originally asking about. And whilst I've been caught out by two Bob Anderons, I would assume it must be father and son.
#13
Ray Bell
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Posted 20 August 2006 - 22:56
Thanks for that...
Just goes to show, TNF always gets its man!
Any further would be appreciated.
Just goes to show, TNF always gets its man!
Any further would be appreciated.
#14
Rob Semmeling
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 08:39
Elliott Forbes-Robinson raced Formula Super Vee in the 1970s in the States. Results:
1971 - 4th
1972 - 4th
1973 - 4th
1974 - 1st - National Formula Super Vee Champion
1975 - 36th (only competed once that year)
Results can be found here...
http://forums.autosp...rmula super vee
...and here:
http://www.teamdan.c...erv/superv.html
1971 - 4th
1972 - 4th
1973 - 4th
1974 - 1st - National Formula Super Vee Champion
1975 - 36th (only competed once that year)
Results can be found here...
http://forums.autosp...rmula super vee
...and here:
http://www.teamdan.c...erv/superv.html
#15
David McKinney
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:17
That'll be EFR II thenOriginally posted by Rob Semmeling
Elliott Forbes-Robinson raced Formula Super Vee in the 1970s in the States.
#16
Rob Semmeling
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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:00
Ah...thanks for that.
#17
Tom Glowacki
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:14
The September 2006 Car and Driver has a big article on EFR II. He's American as was dad. Mother was the Aussie and talked the family into moving back Down Under for 2 years.
This is the same issue with the story on the Glickenhaus P4/5.
This is the same issue with the story on the Glickenhaus P4/5.
#18
Ray Bell
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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:18
Thanks Tom, that really helps our side of the story make sense.
#19
rlnorton
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Posted 03 September 2006 - 20:10
I found a little more information about EFR the elder in one of the issues of the West Coast Sports Car Journal that I was scanning. The WCSCJ became the official CSCC magazine, and has quite a number of interesting articles. In the December, 1956 issue they had an article about EFR. In reference to his Australian period they say:
"Since Robbie first stepped into a 1937 MG-TA, shortly after he and his charming wife Christiana were married, he's never gotten rid of the desire to sit behind the wheel of a sports car. It was in 1945, however, when Robbie first became interested in racing. While living in Australia he was invited to watch a Grand Prix race by a friend. He was introduced to Alby Johnson, one of the drivers, who began to interest Robbie in racing. This led to Robbie's first race which took place at Mt. Druit in New South Wales where Robbie pushed his little MG-TC to a meager 24th position. He showed slight improvement in his second race at Bathurst but didn't show marked improvement until some of Australia's top drivers, now close friends, began giving him vital lessons in handling and driving the tricky Australian courses. Robbie refers to this period in his career as the time which 'I never did anything right'.
"During the period between 1946 and '47 Robbie ran in almost every sport car event in Australia. 'It was around the middle of 1947 that I began to finish in the money' Robbie related. 'In Australia they not only give away trophies but also small cash prizes as well.'
...
"When Robbie arrived in the States he wasted little time getting involved in sports car activities. It was while racing at Sebring that Robbie had his most 'anxious' moments. Co-driving with Roy Jackson Moore Robbie was presented the MG after three and one-half hours of the race. When Robbie took off for the first corner he found that his sleek racing machine was minus a rear view mirror. Driving in a race with drivers such as Moss, Hawthorne, Fangio, Shell, Castalotti, etc., is no easy task. But driving the world's best drivers in a gruelling race of endurance without a rear view mirror is nearly impossible. Robbie had a stiff neck for three weeks following Sebring. He still feels that the Sebring race was his toughest."
Hopefully the author of the article was a little better with his facts than with his spelling of the other drivers at Sebring!
Included with the article are some pictures, including a family picture that shows EFR II.
This issue can be downloaded from
http://www.box.net/public/61jroto397
The entire collection of the West Coast Sports Car Journal can be found at:
http://www.box.net/public/khciz7244d
I'm always looking for issues to add to this collection. Art Evans has put out requests from time to time, and if anyone can supplement this collection, please reply. It would be great if we could get a complete collection of this important resource. I can work either with the original magazines or a good photcopy.
Bob Norton
"Since Robbie first stepped into a 1937 MG-TA, shortly after he and his charming wife Christiana were married, he's never gotten rid of the desire to sit behind the wheel of a sports car. It was in 1945, however, when Robbie first became interested in racing. While living in Australia he was invited to watch a Grand Prix race by a friend. He was introduced to Alby Johnson, one of the drivers, who began to interest Robbie in racing. This led to Robbie's first race which took place at Mt. Druit in New South Wales where Robbie pushed his little MG-TC to a meager 24th position. He showed slight improvement in his second race at Bathurst but didn't show marked improvement until some of Australia's top drivers, now close friends, began giving him vital lessons in handling and driving the tricky Australian courses. Robbie refers to this period in his career as the time which 'I never did anything right'.
"During the period between 1946 and '47 Robbie ran in almost every sport car event in Australia. 'It was around the middle of 1947 that I began to finish in the money' Robbie related. 'In Australia they not only give away trophies but also small cash prizes as well.'
...
"When Robbie arrived in the States he wasted little time getting involved in sports car activities. It was while racing at Sebring that Robbie had his most 'anxious' moments. Co-driving with Roy Jackson Moore Robbie was presented the MG after three and one-half hours of the race. When Robbie took off for the first corner he found that his sleek racing machine was minus a rear view mirror. Driving in a race with drivers such as Moss, Hawthorne, Fangio, Shell, Castalotti, etc., is no easy task. But driving the world's best drivers in a gruelling race of endurance without a rear view mirror is nearly impossible. Robbie had a stiff neck for three weeks following Sebring. He still feels that the Sebring race was his toughest."
Hopefully the author of the article was a little better with his facts than with his spelling of the other drivers at Sebring!
Included with the article are some pictures, including a family picture that shows EFR II.
This issue can be downloaded from
http://www.box.net/public/61jroto397
The entire collection of the West Coast Sports Car Journal can be found at:
http://www.box.net/public/khciz7244d
I'm always looking for issues to add to this collection. Art Evans has put out requests from time to time, and if anyone can supplement this collection, please reply. It would be great if we could get a complete collection of this important resource. I can work either with the original magazines or a good photcopy.
Bob Norton
