108 replies to this topic

[Mal9444]

This question is not really a motor racing question (unless you admit of going to watch motor races as being part of the sport) but it is certainly nostalgia related. No doubt Twinny will deal appropriately with it and me if I offend. However…

What happened to the steering-column gear-lever, and why do not modern cars have one? In the Fifties and Sixties they were the very epitome of modernity and luxury in a motor car – now one never sees them. (And for those of us who learned not only to drive in the Fifties and Sixties, the full-width bench seat that they permitted was a God-send in other areas of the learning curve!)

I learned to drive first in a Vauxhall Wyvern with a three-speed gear box with a column change, then switched to one of these



A truly wonderful Ford Zephyr Six, the poor man’s Rolls-Royce. Ours was blue and did not have these bells and whistles (this pictured at the 2008 Goodwood Revival) and unlike this one



Ours had a column change, rather than this floor change. At this remove I seem to recall that many big cars, manual and automatic, had column changes. I rather liked it.

Why has it disappeared? Too complicated? Lack of precision?

[RCH]

Lack of precision and feel. I rallied a Saab 96V4 with a column change (motor sport content so we are allright!), got used to it reasonably easily and it did seem pretty precise. The column change on my father's Zephyr 6 was not too bad either although part of the linkage would sometimes go over centre and jam. This then involved having to lie on the road to reach the offending item!

On the other hand the column change on a Simca Montlhery I once drove was truly awful.

[kayemod]

I'd say it was mainly the lack of precision and feel as RCH says, most of the column changes I remember, mainly when learning to drive many years ago, were pretty awful things, but I'd say a lot of the reason they disappeared was good old ergonomics. It's the old walking while patting your head and rubbing your stomach thing, which is surprisingly difficult. It isn't easy for humans to do two different operations things like this at the same time, moving a lever up-down and in-out, while simultaneously turning or trying not to turn the wheel that they are more or less attached to. Separating the operations completely, changing gear with a stick on the floor while keeping the other hand on the wheel is much easier somehow, I think it's more to do with the brain rather than our hands. Also, surely a lever sticking out of the gearbox was a much simpler thing to engineer than a column change, it always seemed a rather odd way to arrange things to me, but steering and tyre response wasn't as good back then. With a modern car's responses, it would be difficult to operate a column change without inadvertently swerving to the left or right. I can't believe there are many who mourn the passing of the column change.

[Allan Lupton]

As has been said, lack of precision was their downfall. Best thing was that the gearlever could be in the same position whether the car was LHD or RHD - some of my continental friends can't understand how we manage to change gear with our left hands.
Simca Montlhery in its RHD form was terrible (I solved it by finding a floor-change top for its 'box), but some (e.g. Jowett Javelin) were excellent. The easiest to use were the three-speeders, as you didn't have to find the middle plane of operation that a four-speeder needs.
For a truly worst of both worlds case, the Riley Pathfinder's RH floor-mounted lever controlled the gearbox using a mechanism quite similar to the column change used on other BMC cars of the period.

[Tony Matthews]

I can't believe there are many who mourn the passing of the column change.

I suppose it could be argued that it lives on in the dash-mounted change, used on a few vehicles. The only one I've used was on a rented 2004 MB van, I can't remember the model, but it had a tail-lift that couldn't lift what we were trying to move! The gear change was absolutely horrendous - After driving into Central London, across and then back out in the rush-hour I could have happily torched it.

[kayemod]

some of my continental friends can't understand how we manage to change gear with our left hands.

Believe me Alan, 'our continental friends' still can't.

[RCH]

Being left handed I've always argued that the normal RHD driving controls layout was devised by a left hander! Surely most RHD column changes had the lever on the left? Seems logical to me but would make more sense on the right.

My favourite trick driving a LHD hire car was trying to change gear with the window winder!

[Mal9444]

Thank you all.

Oddly, I remember the Zephyr's column change rather fondly, very limosine-like, I thought. But I also recall it as being utterly unsuited to anything that might be described as rapid motoring.

Was there ever a Jaguar of the era (Mark V et seq) with column change - which was actually the question in my mind that prompted me to start this thread?

Edited by Mal9444, 07 November 2009 - 11:03.

[kayemod]

Being left handed I've always argued that the normal RHD driving controls layout was devised by a left hander!

As another leftie, I think you're right. To expand on my earlier post about foreigners being bemused by our RHD cars reminds me of the time I went with an Austrian friend and his German wife to visit her parents in a small town near Munich. They all came outside to wonder at my new Audi, marvelling at the fact that it had a cockpit that was a perfect mirror-image of what he was used to, apparently he'd thought that in the UK we had to settle for some kind of cobbled-up arrangement with the steering wheel and pedals moved, but most of the other bits left where Deutschland intended, "Aber es ist perfekt!" he kept repeating. Friend's German father in law had a Mercedes 190. Later we were in his house watching some DTM action on the TV, and I told him that the 190s and their road going equivalents had Cosworth designed engines , and that MB had been so impressed by the work Cosworth did, that when the non-racing 16v 190s went from 2.3 litres to 2.5, Mercedes started shipping complete assembled engines over from Northampton, rather than putting them together from shipped-in parts in Stuttgart as they had been doing with the original 2.3. This was a step too far for old Karl, he just wouldn't swallow that, no "That would not be permitted!" he exclaimed, the very thought of it, non-German parts in one of his beloved Mercedes. To return to the topic though, friends wife works in the Innsbruck office of travel firm Inghams, and she told us that when arranging UK trips for Austrian customers, many of them asked if they could have an LHD hire car when they arrived, apparently they thought it would make things easier for them when they had to cope with London traffic, driving on 'the wrong side'. If these Austrians were 'linkshändig' of course, maybe they would have been happier with a RHD car in any case.

[milestone 11]

Being left handed I've always argued that the normal RHD driving controls layout was devised by a left hander! Surely most RHD column changes had the lever on the left?

The Triumph Roadster was on the right if I remember correctly.

[doc knutsen]

Believe me Alan, 'our continental friends' still can't.

I do not know about your "Continental friends", but just as the British change gear with their left hand on their road cars, those who drive racing cars have the gear levers on the right and use them with no second thought.
Likewise, Matt and I both have RHD racing cars with the gear lever on the left, but jumping back into our LHD road cars which need shifting with the right hand never caused any of us any trouble.
Many years ago I ran a RHD road car in this country, which was great in conditions of poor visibility (so easy to judge the edge of the road) but overtaking could be a bit of a problem. Luckily, the car was a well tweaked 1340 Cooper S so the problem was not too bad.

[Ray Bell]

The first of the Vanguards had the column change on the right...

There's a bit more insight into the changing standards, however.

I'm sure you'll find that the importance of getting more people into the car was the main reason for the swing away from floor change to column change. But then came the sixties, with a little more money around, maybe fewer kids in the family, certainly more cars in the garage.

So seating space in the car was no longer at a premium, there were more and more cars being offered with bucket seats (for a few extra pounds/dollars/etc) and so the gearlever was able to migrate to the floor again.

It may well have been that precision wasn't there in many of the column change designs. But the manufacturers didn't seem to worry about criticism of those things, they had other issues on their agenda.

Peugeot, of course, had a great column change in their 404, even with 'bucket' seats.

[bradbury west]

This question is not really a motor racing question .

Don't forget that the old Cunningham Cadillac "Le Monstre", so beloved by our own DCN that he volunteered to drive it at a Festival of Speed a few years back, had "Three on the Tree"
Roger Lund

[Mal9444]

Don't forget that the old Cunningham Cadillac "Le Monstre", so beloved by our own DCN that he volunteered to drive it at a Festival of Speed a few years back, had "Three on the Tree"
Roger Lund

I wondered if any competition cars (noting already that RCH rallied his column-change Saab quite readily) raced with column change, but didn't like to show my ignorance by asking.

Incidentally, I never had any trouble steering and changing gear at the same time with a column change, even when negotiating roundabouts and bridge approaches. However, when I move from my manual Seat to my wife's automatic Volvo I regularly stamp (left-footed, obviously) on the brake and move from D to N as I approach the first roundabout on my way out of our small town. Very embarrassing.

Edited by Mal9444, 07 November 2009 - 12:32.

[Terry Walker]

I've done quite a few miles is column change cars, the Hillman Minx, Falcon, Holden, Austin A40, und so weiter, and for the most part they were lousy changes. I've also had a Renault 4, with the bent wand through the dash change, a push-pull affair which was one of the best changes I've used. I've also driven several Bentley Mk 6s, with the right-hand floor shift in the right-hand-drive cars, and never had any problem finding the gearlever. The Bentley shift, by the way, is superb. One oddity is that the LHD US edition of the Bentley Mk 6 had a column change, the factory deciding maybe that the Yank buyer couldn't cope with a left-hand floor shift on a left hand drive car! Too weird? I've heard it said that the Bentley Mk 6 was offered (as one of those options not in the sales brochure, and for LHD markets only) a central floor shift, I've never seen one in the metal.

But Ray is right: the column change was of US origin and freed up floor space for three-abreast front seating. And of course was adopted by anyone trying to sell cars into the US, no matter how small - eg, Hillman again. Once the transmission tunnel grew taller as the body was lowered around it, and consoles appeared, it became deeply unfashionable. Okay for automatics maybe, but not manuals. Wouldn't you just love a six speeed column change?

I still argue that if you have an automatic, the column is the right place.

Many pre-selector race cars naturally had a column selector, but that's another story. And how about the magic Cotal column shift, a microscopic gear lever on a bracket to the right of the steering column? I saw one the other day on a Delage.

Edited by Terry Walker, 07 November 2009 - 14:23.

[frp]

My favourite trick driving a LHD hire car was trying to change gear with the window winder!

Knowing I was in an 'alien' environment, and concentrating hard, I never had trouble with LHD hire cars. On my return from a holiday, however, I'd pick up my own car at the airport, relax, and having become accustomed to LHD whilst away, open the window at the first roundabout!

Edited by frp, 07 November 2009 - 14:42.

[frp]

marvelling at the fact that it had a cockpit that was a perfect mirror-image of what he was used to,

This reminds me of an evil character I knew, on a Spanish holiday with his girlfriend, a not very confident driver, who persuaded her that it would be good for her to take a turn driving the hire car. After explaining that all the controls were an exact mirror-image of what she was used to, he left her sat on the edge of the bed for ten minutes, practising de-clutching with her right foot and accelerating/braking with her left.

OK, I admit it; the evil character was me. And no, we're not together now!

[RCH]

Ray is right the move to the column change was definitely to allow more space for passengers. There seems to have been a view (no doubt put around by marketing men) that somehow a column change was a more desirable item, I recently saw a '50's ad listing the column change as one of the luxury items on a Minx.

My first two cars were downmarket versions, a Hillman Minx Special and a Standard Ensign, they had floor changes and bench seats as standard whereas the more upmarket versions had column changes. Presumably the floor change was cheaper to produce. Cars like the Minx and the later big Fords had floor changes as an option so maybe the manufacturers started to see that the floor change was more popular with buyers.

[Allan Lupton]

Slightly O/T but relevant as Terry Walker has brought it to mind: in the earlyish days, RHD cars had right-hand gearlevers on the floor, but so far as I have noticed early LHD cars did not have left-hand gearlevers - they had centre-change. This could be the right-handers designing for themselves, or was it?
Anyone know?

The alien environment bit hit Harold Grace, who raced Rileys in saloon car races in the 1950s. After racing the Pathfinder, KRX 820, quite successfully for a number of years, he changed to a Riley 1.5. Quite soon he had a major off, at Oulton Park I seem to recall, as the direct result of going for the RH gearlever in a centre-change car . . . .

Edited by Allan Lupton, 07 November 2009 - 16:38.

[fbarrett]

Friends:

For about 20 years I had a 1959 Mercedes-Benz 220SE "ponton" sedan with "four on the tree", and I don't think I ever missed a shift in it. The linkage had that German precision, I guess. On the other hand, a high-school friend had a '49 Chevrolet, and it was normal to have to jump out, slide under, and free the linkage. Similar Mercedes-Benzes raced in the Mille Miglia, as a Louis Klementaski photo proves. Never saw a RH-drive 220S/SE, so I don't know where they put the shift lever, right or left of the steering column.

Frank

[RStock]

Several of the first vehicles I owned had "three on the tree" shifters . A couple of them were bad about "hanging" when you went to shift , if you didn't "shift square" , or make straight lines with the stick . Then you had to get out , open the hood , grab the linkage and pull it back even , and hope you weren't on a hill and if so , the emergency brake worked . That was always a lot of fun on a cold , rainy day . So I don't miss them .

And Allan Lupton and Kayemod are right , I can't imagine shifting with my left hand . I had a hard enough time with the right .

[bradbury west]

Slightly O/T but relevant in the earlyish days, RHD cars had right-hand gearlevers on the floor, but so far as I have noticed early LHD cars did not have left-hand gearlevers - they had centre-change. This could be the right-handers designing for themselves, or was it?

Allan, I am not in a position to speak with any real authority, but I recall that most early RHD cars did not have a door at that side, driver and guests all alighting from the kerbside, so it was logical for the operating machinery to be on the outside of the driver. Perhaps access to rear seats on some cars was via the space between the front seats, or was it something to do with the levers all being in the chauffeurs' working space? Did smaller cars have centre levers?
Roger Lund

[JB Miltonian]

My first car was a Fiat 1100 Sedan (LHD) with 4 on the column. It seemed perfectly OK to me. My second car was a Lancia Appia Sedan (LHD) with 4 on the column, which was beautifully engineered and so smooth to operate. My next car was a Lancia Fulvia Sedan (LHD) with 4 on the column, which was OK to shift, but not as nice as the Appia. When I started driving a Fulvia Coupe, it had the LONG shift lever on the floor, similar to a Volvo 122 of the period. It LOOKED clumsy to shift, but I enjoyed it.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who has experienced the column shift on the Lancia Aurelia, with linkage going back to the rear transaxle.

[kayemod]

And Allan Lupton and Kayemod are right , I can't imagine shifting with my left hand . I had a hard enough time with the right .

It's less of a problem than you might think, it's many years since I drove anything with a column change, but I drive in mainland Europe a lot, more miles than in the UK most years, and you get used to being on the 'wrong' side very quickly. Being the odd ones out in Europe maybe it's easier for us, everywhere we go drives on the right, but I often ask French/German/Italian etc people if they've been to the UK, and the prospect of having to drive on the left is the one aspect that deters them more than anything else. I don't tell them anything about UK catering/ traffic congestion/ hotel standards & prices etc, that would only put them off the idea of visiting the UK even more. This Country has a great deal to offer, but the things I mentioned in my last sentence certainly aren't among them!

[Doug Nye]

Don't forget that the old Cunningham Cadillac "Le Monstre", so beloved by our own DCN that he volunteered to drive it at a Festival of Speed a few years back, had "Three on the Tree"
Roger Lund

Reading this thread this evening I was just moved to mention my old friend's three on the tree when I saw Roger had beaten me to it. Quite right - and not too bad a "a shift" actually.

Anybody halfway properly wired-up should be able to handle left-hand, right-hand, column or paddle gearchange mechanisms with no problem whatsoever, and with a slightly better electrician in the maternity department right-hand throttle/centre throttle should not be a problem either. It has always puzzled me greatly that a driver as superbly gifted as Moss should ever have had quite such a centre-throttle phobia. Perhaps it was because he left so much later than anybody else when braking, and then had the instinct to go back onto the throttle so much earlier than anybody else?

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 07 November 2009 - 21:23.

[mikeC]

J B Miltonian beat me too it - the Lancia Appia column change is truely excellent, although the floor change on my Appia Coupe was even better
And, yes, the Aurelia column change was equally as good as the Appia.... but at the end of the day, give me a floor change (preferably on the right!) - the best change I have ever experienced was on a 1931 Roesch Talbot 75 - right hand gate with no synchromesh, of course, but when the timing is right, it changes itself

[Allan Lupton]

Allan, I am not in a position to speak with any real authority, but I recall that most early RHD cars did not have a door at that side, driver and guests all alighting from the kerbside, so it was logical for the operating machinery to be on the outside of the driver. Perhaps access to rear seats on some cars was via the space between the front seats, or was it something to do with the levers all being in the chauffeurs' working space? Did smaller cars have centre levers?
Roger Lund

I never worked out which was the consequence of which!
Because there was no door on the right, you had to get out to the left, so centre levers would be in the way and right-hand wouldn't. You could also mount a spare wheel on the right-hand running board.
or
Because there were levers on the right, it would be difficult to get past them, so why have a door that side?
or
Because the chauffeur would get out to hold the door open for the passengers, he needed to get out on the left (in left-hand rule of the road countries) so no door was needed on the right.
Access to the rear seats in smaller cars was by a swing-seat next to the driver, or by a door in the centre of the rear.

However my 1912 two-seater Mors has no door on the right, so the passenger has to get out first (having got in second!) - but it's French and I can't remember when the French started driving on the right, but it must be before 1912 so what was the logic of that?

[onelung]

"Three on the tree" ... naah: amateur stuff .... now THIS is a column gearchange!
Malartre museum, Rochtaillée-sur-Saône
FIVE on the tree.. !

[Jim Armstrong]

I have had many, many vehicles with "three on the tree," including currently a 1959 Dodge D100.
They were such a common thing in the US that when a friend of my mother's got a Peugeot 403 (I think) in the 1950's, she had no trouble at all in learning how to drive it.
The first time (as a highschooler) I rode with her and after she had had it for months, I asked her why she never used fourth gear.
Her response: "Uh, where is it?"

[RStock]

It's less of a problem than you might think, it's many years since I drove anything with a column change, but I drive in mainland Europe a lot, more miles than in the UK most years, and you get used to being on the 'wrong' side very quickly.

I'm sure with a little practice , it would come easier . It's breaking those old habits that would be hard . I rigged a double stick floor shifter in an old pickup I had once . It worked well enough , but you had to really be thinking when you drove it . Once I became accustomed to it , it was second nature .

[red stick]

I'd say it was mainly the lack of precision and feel as RCH says, most of the column changes I remember, mainly when learning to drive many years ago, were pretty awful things, but I'd say a lot of the reason they disappeared was good old ergonomics. It's the old walking while patting your head and rubbing your stomach thing, which is surprisingly difficult. It isn't easy for humans to do two different operations things like this at the same time, moving a lever up-down and in-out, while simultaneously turning or trying not to turn the wheel that they are more or less attached to. Separating the operations completely, changing gear with a stick on the floor while keeping the other hand on the wheel is much easier somehow, I think it's more to do with the brain rather than our hands. Also, surely a lever sticking out of the gearbox was a much simpler thing to engineer than a column change, it always seemed a rather odd way to arrange things to me, but steering and tyre response wasn't as good back then. With a modern car's responses, it would be difficult to operate a column change without inadvertently swerving to the left or right. I can't believe there are many who mourn the passing of the column change.

Well said. I haven't thought about column gear shifts in years, but this does remind me that my father gave me my first driving lesson, circa 1980, in my grandfather's 1965 Ford F-100 pickup truck with a "three on the tree," for the logically impeccable but short-sighted reason that if you could drive that, you could drive anything. Fortunately traffic in rural Southwest Missouri was relatively sparse, because the adventure of driving, indeed driving a pickup truck (not a great deal of weight over the driven wheels), and managing the gearshift resulted in a way too adventurous left hand turn that ended in a skidding 270, a cloud of dust, and the truck still miraculously on the road. The next lesson, which ended without incident, was in the family's automatic-equipped Pontiac Bonneville.

I don't miss the column shift.

[Sebastian Tombs]

I rigged a double stick floor shifter in an old pickup I had once . It worked well enough , but you had to really be thinking when you drove it . Once I became accustomed to it , it was second nature .

What a coincidence! I did the same with a Phase 1 Vanguard Pickup (which had the column-change on the left, contrary to Mr Bell's recollection) which I used to tow the Speedwell Sprite. I have a pic somewhere with it at Shenington in '65 with the Morgan +4, I'll try and dig it out. RH lever forward for reverse, back for 1st, 1st to 2nd involved RH lever to N and LH lever from N forward, 2nd to 3rd required only LH lever straight back!
Happy and resourceful days!

[RStock]

RH lever forward for reverse, back for 1st, 1st to 2nd involved RH lever to N and LH lever from N forward, 2nd to 3rd required only LH lever straight back!
Happy and resourceful days!

I was rather proud of my "engineering" effort .

Though I did get the idea from something dirt track racers used to do . I did it because the "three on the tree" kept hanging . I had two Hurst floor shifters laying around , but they wouldn't work the traditional way , and necessity being the mother of invention . I always loved seeing the look on people face when they saw the two shifters .

Mine was in an old Dodge Pickup that I dubbed "The Beast" . A 318 and no powersteering . I'd like to see the kiddies today try that one on . Mine shifted basically the same . The only trouble was remembering when going from 1st to 2nd , or back down .

[David Birchall]

The Aston DB2 had a column shift as an option initially!
I drove various Austin pickups with a column shift-they were horrible! I also had a 1966 Mercury as a tow car for a while and the column shift on that was Ok. but it all got a bit 'busy' when you had to double clutch downshift and eat a burger at the same time-I think the passenger may have worn some of it....

[onelung]

What a coincidence! I did the same with a Phase 1 Vanguard Pickup (which had the column-change on the left, contrary to Mr Bell's recollection) which I used to tow the Speedwell Sprite. I have a pic somewhere with it at Shenington in '65 with the Morgan +4, I'll try and dig it out. RH lever forward for reverse, back for 1st, 1st to 2nd involved RH lever to N and LH lever from N forward, 2nd to 3rd required only LH lever straight back!
Happy and resourceful days!

My very firm & non-negotiable recollection of the early phase 1 Vanguards here in Ozland was that they did in fact have the change lever on the right.
And a carbon thrust bearing for the clutch mechanism, too(!)
Further to the double shift lever post, we encountered a fellow in Jindabyne in 1967 who had a Vanguard which had 1st & reverse on the floor, and 2nd & top on the column.
He said it was ok unless he had overdone it at the pub on a Saturday night: seemed to become somewhat confused.....

[mikeC]

What a coincidence! I did the same with a Phase 1 Vanguard Pickup (which had the column-change on the left, contrary to Mr Bell's recollection) which I used to tow the Speedwell Sprite.

My very firm & non-negotiable recollection of the early phase 1 Vanguards here in Ozland was that they did in fact have the change lever on the right.
And a carbon thrust bearing for the clutch mechanism, too(!)

Actually, you're both right
Early Triumph 1800 & 2000 saloons, and therefore early Vanguards, had the right hand column change, which moved to the left in 1949 with the Renown TDB series, and presumably the Vanguard changed at the same time.

[ianselva]

My very firm & non-negotiable recollection of the early phase 1 Vanguards here in Ozland was that they did in fact have the change lever on the right.
And a carbon thrust bearing for the clutch mechanism, too(!)
Further to the double shift lever post, we encountered a fellow in Jindabyne in 1967 who had a Vanguard which had 1st & reverse on the floor, and 2nd & top on the column.
He said it was ok unless he had overdone it at the pub on a Saturday night: seemed to become somewhat confused.....

I'm certain the Phase 1 Vanguard I used to tow my Cooper S with had the column change on the LEFT and I never had any problems with the change although the change was never used in sporting fashion . I think the distance the lever travelled made the change slow which would go against its use in sporting circles.
Slightly O/T , the 1950s Ford 100E with its 3 speed box was often the recipient of a seperate overdrive gearbox bolted on the rear of the box ,controlled either by a vacuum solenoid or more usually a seperate lever through the floor. This gave a usefull additional top speed if the motor was tuned at all , but with a bit of dexterity could be used to give a 5/6 speed gearbox although some of the changes would require a change using both levers at the same time.( overdrive 2nd to non overdrive top)

[Terry Walker]

Worst column change by far that I ever experienced was on a Thames van, a Consul-engined forward-control cube from about 1960. Thames Trader sound right? I'd often get stuck in one gear or another, step out, lean in under the front wheel arch and unhook the linkages which zigzagged willy nilly between the column and the tranmssion. But even worse was a Hillman Minx based forward control pickup, Commer Carrier?? from the 50s, which had a floor change gearlever in the usual location on top of the box, which was about two metres behind the driver. The lever then went through 90 degrees and presented to the driver's left elbow horizontally. Bottom gear was so low that it maxed out at about 5 mph, while starting off in second produced violent axle tramp, making starts in low compulsory. What a joy.

Edited by Terry Walker, 08 November 2009 - 09:54.

[ianselva]

Worst column change by far that I ever experienced was on a Thames van, a Consul-engined forward-control cube from about 1960. Thames Trader sound right? I'd often get stuck in one gear or another, step out, lean in under the front wheel arch and unhook the linkages which zigzagged willy nilly between the column and the tranmssion. But even worse was a Hillman Minx based forward control pickup, Commer Carrier?? from the 50s, which had a floor change gearlever in the usual location on top of the box, which was about two metres behind the driver. The lever then went through 90 degrees and presented to the driver's left elbow horizontally. Bottom gear was so low that it maxed out at about 5 mph, while starting off in second produced violent axle tramp, making starts in low compulsory. What a joy.

That was the 400E van as mentioned in another thread, also available as a pickup , The Trtansit of its time. The Trader was the truck built arond that time.
The worst column change I drove was an Austin A55 pickup my then employers ran which required a quick waggle in neutral between each gear or else it was a case of call the fitters out to untangle it.
I would assume that the column gearchange would always be on the side of the column that faced the gearbox, depending on which side the column was.

[onelung]

Actually, you're both right
Early Triumph 1800 & 2000 saloons, and therefore early Vanguards, had the right hand column change, which moved to the left in 1949 with the Renown TDB series, and presumably the Vanguard changed at the same time.

Yep, the very first of the hunch back Vanguards came out to the colonies with the rear wheel arch covers and RIGHT HAND gear lever.
The next version .. same aerodynamic "low Cd body shape", but without the wheel spats .. had the gear lever migrated to the RIGHT HAND side of the column.

No doubt this latter version was absolutely perfect for towing Speedwell Sprites.

[Mal9444]

The lever then went through 90 degrees and presented to the driver's left elbow horizontally.

I once, and only once, had a drive in a D-type Jaguar and found myself totally confused by the way its gear lever, too, bends through ninety degrees

(so as not, presumably, to bark the driver's knuckles on the central cockpit divide). I just could not get used to it. Going up through the gears seemed natural enough, but coming back down required such careful thought that it quite spoiled the experience. As I was attempting to drive this iconic vehicle quite quickly, on a circuit, and thus kept approaching corners at a not immodest lick with the clutch depressed and a puzzled look of intense concentrated anguish on my face I don't think it did much for my instructor's day, either. My lap times were not, I fear, impressive.

Edited by Mal9444, 08 November 2009 - 20:39.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Yep, the very first of the hunch back Vanguards came out to the colonies with the rear wheel arch covers and RIGHT HAND gear lever.
The next version .. same aerodynamic "low Cd body shape", but without the wheel spats .. had the gear lever migrated to the RIGHT HAND side of the column.

No doubt this latter version was absolutely perfect for towing Speedwell Sprites.

I think you mean it had migrated to the LEFT side of the column
Actually, it was not perfect for towing a Speedwell Sprite on a trailer because the gear lever became so sloppy that it hit the screen before 2nd was engaged!! Hence the enforced mod
Ozland was the expected El Dorado for the Triumph marketing men for some reason.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Ah, here it is, or part of it at any rate! Sorry about the rubbish pic. (So, we did wear ties in the paddock "Back in the Day" )
Shenington, summer '65, "LES" and "Ole SLB" the latter still competing in Classic Trials, having starred in "Take a Girl Like You" on telly! Can't keep a good Mog down

[Frank S]

I believe anyone with a modicum of coordination and learning can do column shifts as well as they need to be done. You figure there are pianists and guitarists who can use different hands for different actions, peddle the pedals, sing and/or talk all at once; the capacity is there, just needs to be learned and practiced.

My favorite shifter was in the early Lotus Elan S2: it was right where it should have been within the driver's field of attention, and gear changes were a matter of wrist motion. Snick, snick. Marvelous.

Least favorite: 1941 Plymouth sedan loaned to me by a friend. The column shifter was so vague you had to let out the clutch to find out what gear you were in, and the same motions didn't necessarily result in the same result. I stopped on a hill, couldn't find first, and second was not good enough to get rolling. Clouds of burning clutch-smoke before final success. Ick.


At first reading of this thread I thought, "Gee, I haven't had much in the way of transmission adventures", but then that last one and these started coming back to me:

My friend's 1940 Chev business coupe (very pretty) with vacuum-assisted shifting. He was constantly messing with it, trying to encourage the delicate little column-mounted lever to actually accomplish a shift through any motions, let alone the expected ones.

My 1949 Ford, whose linkage did not respond well to repeated "slam-shifting" (hook the thumb under the column-mounted lever while accelerating in first gear, whip the lever to second-gear position while side-stepping the clutch); after a few dozen of those the transmission would not stay in second without hand-pressure on the lever.

Quick-shifting the MGTD into what was apparently two gears at once, with the business end of the stick outside a location where it could contact the ends of the push-rods. After a bit of toil with the King Dicks (a challenge!) I got it into just one gear - second - but couldn't get the remote mount back on in a way that it would shift gears. Drove it all across Little Rock to the dealer, where they laughed up their sleeves as they diddled it into place and harangued me about maintenance (I'd had it about two months by then).

It had been several years since I drove a four- or five-speed console shift car, when I got a automatic-on-the-console car. Nevertheless, the first time I was doing a little spirited driving the reflexive, overlearned fourth-to-third downshift (while toe-and-toeing brake and throttle pedals) resulted in finding the lever would actually go into Reverse position if you did it just right (wrong). Oops.

And the last I will report is doing test-and-tune at the eighth-mile drags in a console-shift five-speed: several second-to-third shifts fell short or went wayward; the one that ruined the clutch was a successful substitution of first for the intended third. That was exciting.

[T54]

I still love mine...

[onelung]

I think you mean it had migrated to the LEFT side of the column
Actually, it was not perfect for towing a Speedwell Sprite on a trailer because the gear lever became so sloppy that it hit the screen before 2nd was engaged!! Hence the enforced mod
Ozland was the expected El Dorado for the Triumph marketing men for some reason.

Oops - yes, to the LHS.
I think all of this (Vanguard discussion) might revolve around what is defined as a "phase one" ? To my mind the two versions (ie with & without rear wheel spats) of the first body shape were phase one, and the next, the first of the "3 box" shape was the phase two. One of these latter made a very impressive showing in an early round-Australia trial (as they were called here).
But I wonder - was the "phase numbering system" used by the manufacturer from the start or was it a retro application by the public?
Whatever, they were a very useful vehicle and above all .. solidly built. Despite the advent of the Holden they were not disgraced.

[ianselva]

Oops - yes, to the LHS.
I think all of this (Vanguard discussion) might revolve around what is defined as a "phase one" ? To my mind the two versions (ie with & without rear wheel spats) of the first body shape were phase one, and the next, the first of the "3 box" shape was the phase two. One of these latter made a very impressive showing in an early round-Australia trial (as they were called here).
But I wonder - was the "phase numbering system" used by the manufacturer from the start or was it a retro application by the public?
Whatever, they were a very useful vehicle and above all .. solidly built. Despite the advent of the Holden they were not disgraced.

According to Motorbase;Standard launched a revised Vanguard "Phase II" in 1952 to replace its original design. The new model had revised styling which looked more congenital thanks to a "notchback" boot lid and cut-away rear wheel spats. Apart from having a revised gearchange and hydraulic clutch little else had changed on the Phase II and so the model continued to sell well at home and overseas.
I always though the Phase 3 was the later unitary construction 3 box shape , one of which I also used to tow with. I think this was the one that I fited an overdrive gearbox to with the standard axle ratio and it was ideal for relaxed high speed towing.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Jim Armstrong
.....a friend of my mother's got a Peugeot 403 (I think) in the 1950's.....

The first time (as a highschooler) I rode with her and after she had had it for months, I asked her why she never used fourth gear.
Her response: "Uh, where is it?"

Oh yes... so with a 5.75:1 rear axle she was using direct third gear everywhere!

[D-Type]

Ray,
How was the gate on the 403 and 404 arranged? I half remember being told that the 403 had an unusual gate.

[Ray Bell]

203, 403 and 404 (until about 1967) were:

1st - away and down
2nd - centralise (let it float) and up
3rd - centralise and down
4th - towards you and up
Rev - away and up (same plane as first)

When I fit a 5-speed to my 404 it will retain the column change.