20 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

Hello!

With the new F1 teams for 2010, there will also be more chassis design buros in F1. Dallara will buy and construct the F1 cars for Campos, Wirth Research for Manor, Fondtech for Lotus and Riley Technologies (won the last 5 Daytona 24 hours races) perhaps for USF1.

Red Bull Technologies built the cars for Red Bull and Toro Rosso. Newey is working for Red Bull Technologies, not for Red Bull Racing. Red Bull need that third factory because Red Bull racing isn't allowed to sell the cars to Toro Rosso. In 2010 Toro Rosso will build and construct their own cars.


We have more such F1 chassis builder (and chassis designer) in F1 in the past: Of corse Dallara, Lola and Reynard, but there were more, little known:

- Galmer (Formed by Ex IndyCar team Galles Racing team owner) built the F1 cars for Brabham in 1992.
- Fomet 1 (a company from Robin Herd) built the F1 cars for Fondmetal in 1991 and then for Larrousse. In 1995 the company was re-named GenTech.
- Astauto: A company by Sergio Rinland and many from the Brabham staff. They built the Fondmetal car for 1992.
- FORCE (Formula One Racing Car Engineering): They built the Lola cars for the Haas team in the mid 90s.

Were there more such chassis builder companies in F1?

[Twin Window]

The [early] Ferrari 312B3 chassis were made in the UK by Thompson I seem to recall.

[HistoryFan]

Bob Sparshot's BS Fabrications?

Maurice Gomm?

BS Fabrications build their own cars.
And Maurice Gomm is one person.
Don't you really know what I mean? Sorry, my Englisch is not a perfect one, so I can't explain it more...

[HistoryFan]

The [early] Ferrari 312B3 chassis were made in the UK by Thompson I seem to recall.

Who/What is Thompson?

[Nigel Beresford]

Who/What is Thompson?

I think you mean John Thompson of TC Prototypes.

Regarding FORCE and the Haas Lolas, that's not really a valid example because the cars were built and raced from under the same roof (i.e. the team actually designed and made their own cars), unlike the other examples you cited.

Nigel

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 11 November 2009 - 21:40.

[uechtel]

March for RAM
Lola cooperated with Honda in the late sixties, also with BMW, Hill, Larrousse, Scuderia Italia...
Simtek for Andrea Moda Formula, if that counts.

[HistoryFan]

Simtek built the car for BMW for 1991 and sold the car to Andrea Moda when I remembered right. I don't think they worked for Andrea Moda, but okay that counts half

But I remembered that Simtek also worked for Ligier and some IndyCar teams. But I think they built not the whole car for them...

[eurocardoc]

Maurice Gomm, aka Gomm Metal Works certainly produced many monocoques, I believe the Ford GTs? As for F1, quite possibly they were involved somewhere. Similarly TC Components built many sports car tubs.

[HistoryFan]

I googled a bit for Gomm and I heard that Gomm Metal Developments was ebtablished by Len Bailey.
They also helped Tyrrell to built their first F1 chassis (but not constructing oder designing it), then they construct the Politoys F1 for Frank Williams, worked together with Token and Theodore (the Theodre F1 car became later the Magnum F3).

[Allen Brown]

Mo Gomm was an expert fabricator and Len Bailey had an office in his workshop. Sometimes they would get a joint commission and Bailey would design it and Gomm fabricate the tub. (I think the Mirage sports car (M6?) may be such an example.) The usual route then was to Cosworth for an engine, Hewland for a transmission and Specialised Mouldings for the bodywork. That's the way things worked in the 1970s.

Just to confuse matters further, BS Fabrications built a McLaren M23 for McLaren to sell to a privateer.

Remember that Arch Motors built the chassis for Brabham, March and Chevron (and a host of others) at one time but were just acting as sub-contractors and nobody ever thought of their car as an 'Arch'. You could theoretically build a racing car in those days entirely using subcontractors for all the design, components and final build. And then say it was your own. I won't be cheeky enough to give an example.

Fabricating a car to order is not the same as outsourcing the whole project. Lec getting Pilbeam to design and build their F1 car is probably a better example; or Penske's role with the Rebaque IIRC.

[HistoryFan]

Yes, I forgot Penske!
Thank you for the additions!
Perhaps there will be more?

Edited by HistoryFan, 12 November 2009 - 21:25.

[uechtel]

De Tomaso / Dallara for Williams
Lamborghini with Team Modena
Tyrrell ran the Matras as kind of a second works team, but one could perhaps regard these two as case of "manufacturer contracting team" instead of the other way round. Same with Euroracing and Alfa Romeo.
And I think some BRMs were designed by Len Terry as a freelancer. I don´t know whether that should fit into our list or not.

[HistoryFan]

But Euroracing did more than only construction the cars for Alfa Romeo. I think they were also involved in managing und leading the team.

[Spitfire]

Hercules Aerospace for McLaren, MP4/1.

[uechtel]

But Euroracing did more than only construction the cars for Alfa Romeo. I think they were also involved in managing und leading the team.

I thought the other way round, weren´t the cars initially built by Alfa Romeo and then run by Euroracing?

On the engine side, how about Porsche working for TAG?

[HistoryFan]

Yes but TAG was only sponsor. Later we have the same with Petronas/Ferrari or Acer/Ferrari for example. They paid the engines.

And with Alfa Romeo: I don't exactly know, who built the cars and who were running them. But I think that Alfa Romeo was the entrant and Euroracing was managing the team and building the cars, because Alfa Romeo has his own team longer. The partnership began in 1983. I thought it's like many IndyCar teams (=> http://forums.autosp...wtopic=103237&)

[uechtel]

TAG: I think they were more than a sponsor, but as I remember they were indeed ordering the engines and Porsche only the contractor. I can not remember, that it was Porsche´s initiative to build the engines. In my opinion this is a difference to Petronas/Ferrari etc. as there Ferrari was offering an already existing engine.

Alfa Romeo: To my information car and engine were developed in 1982, when Alfa Romeo still ran the racing team themselves. They handed them over to Pavanello, who ran the work´s Formula 1 activities from 1983. I think today we would call that "outsourcing".

[rdmotorsport]

I googled a bit for Gomm and I heard that Gomm Metal Developments was ebtablished by Len Bailey.
They also helped Tyrrell to built their first F1 chassis (but not constructing oder designing it), then they construct the Politoys F1 for Frank Williams, worked together with Token and Theodore (the Theodre F1 car became later the Magnum F3).

although I worked at Theodore never new the chassis was connected to the Magnum,which Theodore are we talking about and add Cyril Maylems CTG organisations who built chassis for BRM and Ensign?

[HistoryFan]

From grandprix.com:

"Bailey continued to do consultancy work throughout the 1970s which included a Theodore F1 prototype which later became a Magnum F3 car in 1981."

[HistoryFan]

- Astauto: A company by Sergio Rinland and many from the Brabham staff. They built the Fondmetal car for 1992.

They also worked for Forti and I think then Astauto collabsed... Is that right?
Or is Astauto still existing?
Why did they collabse?

[HistoryFan]

We also have Cyber Dynamics, who was etablished in 1995 by Tino Belli. They worked for Arrows in F1 and for Pagan Racing und Green in IndyCar, and for Hendrick Motorsports in Nascar.