46 replies to this topic

[Kingsleyrob]

Thought that would get your attention...

In an idle moment doing a spot of Googling I stumbled across this discussion http://www.skyscrape...p/t-928618.html

I notice nobody here has put forward a lucid argument, so I am sure it's a non-starter.

Yesterday I spent five minutes parked up at Anchor Crossing having a spot of soup and a pasty. I could almost hear "the train" passing me as I drifted back to 1955.

Rob

[RTH]

Soup and a pasty at Aintree ... that sounds nice Rob !

Its a lovely idea, never having been there myself, is it in any way realistic to reinstate those bits of the original track that a missing to make any sort of circuit that might possibly be used for some kind of motor racing again?

Any chance of a set of current photos around the line of the course to give us some idea just what sort of state it is currently in in comparison with the hayday of Aintree motor course?

[Derwent Motorsport]

The old Club circuit is still used for sprints and track days by Liverpool MC. Steve Wilkinson will have all the answers.
There was a "Revival" meeting - mainly static about 4 years ago but parts of the main track near the grandstand etc have been built over, there is also a golf course and there is not enough room for the sort of run off areas we need now. I do know that greate rminds than us have looked at it and if there was a possibility it would havee chased up.

Edited by Derwent Motorsport, 14 November 2009 - 11:46.

[Kingsleyrob]

Soup and a pasty at Aintree ... that sounds nice Rob !

Its a lovely idea, never having been there myself, is it in any way realistic to reinstate those bits of the original track that a missing to make any sort of circuit that might possibly be used for some kind of motor racing again?

Any chance of a set of current photos around the line of the course to give us some idea just what sort of state it is currently in in comparison with the hayday of Aintree motor course?

You'll find some pics here Richard, from three years ago http://forums.autosp...w...58472&st=80 but not a complete set. Something I should do on a bright winter weekend perhaps.

Judging from what I hear from my Aintree Circuit Club colleagues, opposition from the owners of the course, the Jockey Club, means that any proposals for proper racing on the full circuit would fall at the first hurdle. . http://www.aintree.org.uk/

What a pity

Rob

[alansart]

Soup and a pasty at Aintree ... that sounds nice Rob !

Its a lovely idea, never having been there myself, is it in any way realistic to reinstate those bits of the original track that a missing to make any sort of circuit that might possibly be used for some kind of motor racing again?

Any chance of a set of current photos around the line of the course to give us some idea just what sort of state it is currently in in comparison with the hayday of Aintree motor course?

The Aintree Club having been talking about getting the track open again for racing, but it's not a simple thing to do - Money, politics, safety, noise etc. Most of the circuit still exists so the tarmac side is possibly the easy bit!

[RTH]

Safety these days means large areas of run off areas , is that feasible at Aintree now if perhaps the course is shortened ?

Motor racing everywhere going forward has to face up to effective silencing so that is possible.

I am aware of the Grand National but just how much is Aintree used as a spectator venue nowadays ? Presumably as it was used concurrently for horse racing and motor racing that would remain possible ?

[Stephen W]

Judging from what I hear from my Aintree Circuit Club colleagues, opposition from the owners of the course, the Jockey Club, means that any proposals for proper racing on the full circuit would fall at the first hurdle. . http://www.aintree.org.uk/

What a pity

Rob

To actually put the record straight the opposition is not to motor sport but to Aintree Circuit Club.

I would guesstimate that we would be looking to several millions to just get the Club Circuit up to MSA standards for car racing. However this may well impact on the Motorcycle racing that still takes place six times a year - Armco barriers are an anathema to bikers and the MSA would insist on all the Grand National jumps being protected with Armco.

Liverpool Motor Club are currently examining ways to get the Club Circuit up to specification so that we can run a two-lap sprint on one of our dates. Currently our MSA circuit license only allows a three quarter lap course to be used.

As for opening up the full GP course I shudder to think how many millions that would take. Waterway Corner, Canal Side and Anchor Crossing would all have to be realigned. There would have to be major works on restoration of the Melling Crossing plus Tatts Corner would also have to be realigned. As to where the Pits and paddock would be - that is anyone's guess.

Liverpool Motor Club are dedicated to maintaining motor sport at Aintree and currently have an excellent working relationship with the landowners and their staff. I would be very annoyed if the Aintree Circuit Club messed that up and I suspect that if they continue to act in the way that they have in the past it could lead to the cessation of motor sport of all kinds at Aintree.

[MCS]

To actually put the record straight the opposition is not to motor sport but to Aintree Circuit Club......

......Liverpool Motor Club are dedicated to maintaining motor sport at Aintree and currently have an excellent working relationship with the landowners and their staff. I would be very annoyed if the Aintree Circuit Club messed that up and I suspect that if they continue to act in the way that they have in the past it could lead to the cessation of motor sport of all kinds at Aintree.

As a one-time member of the Aintree Circuit Club, I'm intrigued. I didn't know it still existed. What have they been up to, dare I ask?

Edited by MCS, 14 November 2009 - 13:28.

[MCS]

http://www.liverpoolmotorclub.com/

Whoops, should have said Aintree Circuit Club. Post edited.

[kayemod]

Back some time in the 60s, I used to take a train to Liverpool from our home in Meols on the Wirral, change stations and travel on a Southport bound train to within half a mile of the Aintree circuit. A walk the length of Melling Road, and after queuing for a ticket and a programme, a few enjoyable though often wet hours spent sitting under that giant scoreboard on the Railway Straight embankment, watching the likes of Jim Clark and Sir Stirling with full supporting cast, in the British GP or Aintree 200. The cost of all that was more or less taken care of by paper round and pocket money. There's absolutely no chance of proper racing taking place at Aintree ever again, pleasant thought though that might be, but should the impossible come to pass, I wonder if I'd be able to afford it on my present day 'pocket money'.

[Alan Cox]

Whoops, should have said Aintree Circuit Club. Post edited.

http://www.aintree.org.uk/

[MCS]

http://www.aintree.org.uk/

Mmmm. Thanks Alan. Is that the same Graham Hughes who used to race in Modsports?

[alansart]

Mmmm. Thanks Alan. Is that the same Graham Hughes who used to race in Modsports?

Yes it is.

In the photo taken outside the Park Hotel (not including the main subjects) there are 3 TNF'ers lurking in the background

Edited by alansart, 14 November 2009 - 15:16.

[Kingsleyrob]

Yes it is.

In the photo taken outside the Park Hotel (not including the main subjects) there are 3 TNF'ers lurking in the background

If I'd have been a little earlier there would have been four.

Rob

Edited by Kingsleyrob, 14 November 2009 - 15:44.

[Simon Arron]

Yes, Aintree was once graced by Clark, Moss, Fangio and, of course, Graham Hughes's Modsports Midget, but it was also this...


I hope, one day, that we might get to witness such things again.

[Ian Smith - Diz]

Yes it is.

In the photo taken outside the Park Hotel (not including the main subjects) there are 3 TNF'ers lurking in the background

I wasn't lurking, I just happened to be passing by.

[Phil Rainford]

If I'd have been a little earlier there would have been four.

Rob

Rob


If you had turned up on time you would have been on your own in the picture........the other three TNF members would have been absent, due to the fact that they would have fainted with shock


PAR

Edited by Phil Rainford, 14 November 2009 - 22:36.

[Giraffe]

Oulton Park may be my "Home" circuit, but Aintree will forever be my spiritual home. I was introduced to both motorsport and marshalling (& Ian Smith-Diz!) on the same day, the eve of my 14th birthday. There will never be anywhere to match the atmosphere of that historic and most wonderful circuit!


By giraffe138 at 2009-11-15

Tuesday night practice on the Railway Straight.............Hog Heaven!


By giraffe138 at 2009-01-26

Bob Vincent in his GT40.


By giraffe138 at 2009-01-24

John Scott Davies in his V8 Cortina & Ken Le Riche in the Le Riche GT.


By giraffe138 at 2009-01-27

The life of Brian....

Brian Hough's TVR leads Brian Murphy's E-Type.

Edited by Giraffe, 15 November 2009 - 09:04.

[David Force]

The first motor race I ever visited was when I persuaded my Dad, who was a native of Liverpool, to drive me from the depths of South Wales to Aintree for the British Grand Prix in 1962. I had been hooked already on hand-me-down magazines but in that Welsh motor racing wasteland had no opportunity to see them for real.

Imagine coming up the stairs through those huge permanent grandstands, breaking out on to the top of the Tatts corner stand in brilliant sunshine and seeing Dan's silver Porsche, Phil Hill's Ferrrari and then my hero Jim Clark's Lotus 25.

Heaven did exist, and it was in a Liverpool suberb !

It would be wonderful to go back there but as previous comments indicate many have tried. The last one was to be on the side of the Mersey but it didn't really capture the imagination. A laudable attempt but Quai Albert Premiere it ain't.

It needs to be at the track in my opinion.

We have some very interesting events planned for 2010, some in city centres, and one a 'night race' I could probably drum up twenty F1 cars for an Aintree demo...

[alansart]

I wasn't lurking

I was

[Kingsleyrob]

We have some very interesting events planned for 2010, some in city centres, and one a 'night race' I could probably drum up twenty F1 cars for an Aintree demo...

What great memories David My first visit was in 1965, alas too late to see any action on the full circuit.

I am sure my colleagues at the Aintree Car Club would be interested in your offer of twenty F1 cars.

Rob

[Steve O'Brien]

Oulton Park may be my "Home" circuit, but Aintree will forever be my spiritual home. I was introduced to both motorsport and marshalling (& Ian Smith-Diz!) on the same day, the eve of my 14th birthday. There will never be anywhere to match the atmosphere of that historic and most wonderful circuit!


By giraffe138 at 2009-11-15

Tuesday night practice on the Railway Straight.............Hog Heaven!


By giraffe138 at 2009-01-26

Bob Vincent in his GT40.


By giraffe138 at 2009-01-24

John Scott Davies in his V8 Cortina & Ken Le Riche in the Le Riche GT.


By giraffe138 at 2009-01-27

The life of Brian....

Brian Hough's TVR leads Brian Murphy's E-Type.

That looks like Brian Boltons V8 Cortina rather than my dads and Scotty's there are no air scoops in front of the rear wheels on that one .

[Giraffe]

Hi Steve, you might be right but I never recall Brian Bolton on a Tuesday night, and your dad and Scotty did run the Cortina painted yellow?

[Steve O'Brien]

Hi Steve, you might be right but I never recall Brian Bolton on a Tuesday night, and your dad and Scotty did run the Cortina painted yellow?

I dont remember it being yellow but that is not there car, no side vents and its got the early mk1 grill there car had the later grill im sure it was white when they bought it, my dad painted it met blue with a gold stripe, but I have been known to be wrong before

Steve.

[Giraffe]

I dont remember it being yellow but that is not there car, no side vents and its got the early mk1 grill there car had the later grill im sure it was white when they bought it, my dad painted it met blue with a gold stripe, but I have been known to be wrong before

Steve.

Yes Steve, it was met blue with a gold stripe when raced in 1968, but for some reason or other it became yellow by 1970, and the Cooper BRM was painted from the same tin to match....

By giraffe138 at 2009-11-16

By giraffe138 at 2009-11-16

By giraffe138 at 2009-11-16

[Alan Cox]

Nice to see the Howley Racing Cooper S trying its luck against the Cooper-BRM and Nigel Moores' Ferrari 625. Any votes for a return to club libre racing?

[Ian Smith - Diz]

Any votes for a return to club libre racing?

Probably plenty of votes from TNFrs' Alan, but sadly the modern breed of club drivers don't share our enthusiasm.

I tried putting F Libre races on at my Anglesey Winter meetings in 2004, 2005, 2007 and 2008 with entries just about reaching double figures. [No race in 2006 as it was decided to build a brand new circuit instead ]

I haven't bothered with Libre for this year [Sun 29 Nov].
One potentially interesting entry though - subject to him sourcing front wets - could be David Taylor in his rebuilt Mick Hill V8 Beetle. I think SA has already been 'oop north' to drool over this car.

Anybody know why I am editing this post at 23:55, when the post says it is 01:46 tomorrow [actually today] and Alan's post I'm replying to wasn't at 22.50 yesterday, but was either 22:50, or 20:50 today?
I'm getting more and more confused. Does that mean I have now officially completed my TNF Training Module and become fully fledged?
Anyway, as it's still today - just - I'm off to my bed now.

Edited by Ian Smith - Diz, 16 November 2009 - 23:57.

[alansart]

Anybody know why I am editing this post at 23:55, when the post says it is 01:46 tomorrow [actually today] and Alan's post I'm replying to wasn't at 22.50 yesterday, but was either 22:50, or 20:50 today?
I'm getting more and more confused. Does that mean I have now officially completed my TNF Training Module and become fully fledged?
Anyway, as it's still today - just - I'm off to my bed now.

Your not on Daylight Saving Time so your clock didn't change the other week. Go into My Controls, then Board Settings and tick Auto correct DST? or change Your base time zone - simples!

[elansprint72]

Vroom, vroom.................

[Giraffe]

Who is that vrooming, Pete?

[elansprint72]

Who is that vrooming, Pete?

It was me.


Oh, you mean in the car? As usual, I have no idea. I'm sure that someone will have though.

[Kingsleyrob]

I'm never one to complain about threads going a bit off topic, but I wonder if anyone clicked on the link in my initial post to see the "case" for the return of the British GP to Aintree.

Acknowledging tobylvp's copywright, here is the gist:

F1 racing was stopped there because the course was changing owners and the future not certain. The track is largely still there and still used.

The top-class spectator facilities now far outstrip any British motor course. Liverpool is far superior than Donnington or Silverstone for transport access and hotels being a World Heritage Site tourist city in most of the city centre. Cruise liners regularly visit the city during the summer months. Liners could acts as hotels for F1 races if need be. Cars will not be allowed near Donnington and access is only via the local small rail station. Car parking is no problem at Aintree.

Aintree hosts the world biggest horse race each year catering for massive crowds – they know how to handle it. The course has its own rapid-transit Merseyrail tube station with direct connection to mainline Lime St station which is two hours from London by Virgin trains. There are two motorways adjacent to the course and two into the city. An international airport is near with frequent flights to all major European cities, and also a smaller airport near for the event & owners helicopters.

This is a clear lost opportunity for Liverpool, Britain and F1. The city has image world-wide, especially sporting linked. The city hosts huge football games (semi-final of a world cup was staged in the city) and international golf events at Hoylake and Birkdale (many Golf open tournaments of all descriptions). Two large stadia are to be built in the city. Large sporting events is something common to the city. Upgrading the track and install pits is something that would take little or time money to get to full F1 standards and British F1 history rekindled.

Why isn’t the city of Liverpool council, Sefton Council, the Jockey Club and Ecclestones talking. The course could be ready in months.

Discuss....

Rob

[Giraffe]

Why isn’t the city of Liverpool council, Sefton Council, the Jockey Club and Ecclestones talking. The course could be ready in months.[/i]

.....and whilst they're at it they could repair the global financial meltdown, solve the differences between the East and West, split the atom, find a cure for cancer and vote Jedward off X-Factor Rob..................................

[Kingsleyrob]

.....and whilst they're at it they could repair the global financial meltdown, solve the differences between the East and West, split the atom, find a cure for cancer and vote Jedward off X-Factor Rob..................................

Perhaps they could bring in Donington's Mr Gillet as a consultant, and while they are at it the other Mr Gillet (Gillett, Gillette, whatever) from Liverpool FC.

That should help sort it eh?

Rob

[Stephen W]

Vroom, vroom.................

Looks like a Martin.

I'm never one to complain about threads going a bit off topic, but I wonder if anyone clicked on the link in my initial post to see the "case" for the return of the British GP to Aintree.

Acknowledging tobylvp's copywright, here is the gist:

F1 racing was stopped there because the course was changing owners and the future not certain. The track is largely still there and still used.

The top-class spectator facilities now far outstrip any British motor course. Liverpool is far superior than Donnington or Silverstone for transport access and hotels being a World Heritage Site tourist city in most of the city centre. Cruise liners regularly visit the city during the summer months. Liners could acts as hotels for F1 races if need be. Cars will not be allowed near Donnington and access is only via the local small rail station. Car parking is no problem at Aintree.

Aintree hosts the world biggest horse race each year catering for massive crowds – they know how to handle it. The course has its own rapid-transit Merseyrail tube station with direct connection to mainline Lime St station which is two hours from London by Virgin trains. There are two motorways adjacent to the course and two into the city. An international airport is near with frequent flights to all major European cities, and also a smaller airport near for the event & owners helicopters.

This is a clear lost opportunity for Liverpool, Britain and F1. The city has image world-wide, especially sporting linked. The city hosts huge football games (semi-final of a world cup was staged in the city) and international golf events at Hoylake and Birkdale (many Golf open tournaments of all descriptions). Two large stadia are to be built in the city. Large sporting events is something common to the city. Upgrading the track and install pits is something that would take little or time money to get to full F1 standards and British F1 history rekindled.

Why isn’t the city of Liverpool council, Sefton Council, the Jockey Club and Ecclestones talking. The course could be ready in months.

Discuss....

Rob

Obviously Tobylvp has very little grasp of reality. His closing comment "The course could be ready in months." is a classic example of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. The core business of Aintree Racecourse is horse racing. Anything that could adversely affect this core business is not going to be supported. As I said earlier there are various elements on the track that will require realignment and that would mean pinching slices of land off the horse race track - this will never happen.

Having said that the Club Circuit is a totally different kettle of fish. There the track is completely as was. All it needs is .....
1) resurfacing,
2) Armco barriers to protect the cars from the Grand National jumps and which can be easily dismantled & stored,
3) Moveable barriers to be positioned so as to block off the gaps in the safety banking,
4) crowd control barriers (assuming that spectators will be admitted),
5) additional tarmac areas for the paddock,
6) a race control building,
7) a pit lane,
8) removal of large sections of the perimeter chainlink fencing to be replaced with taller fencing to stop unauthorised access and to be faced with Armco,
9) additional toilet facilities for both competitors and spectators,
and finally
10) planning permission.

I would guesstimate that the costs for this would be in the millions. You would only get 12 days per annum at the most (6 each for bikes and cars) plus you might get some midweek testing.

All in all not exactly a viable financial prospect.

[Kingsleyrob]

I would guesstimate that the costs for this would be in the millions. You would only get 12 days per annum at the most (6 each for bikes and cars) plus you might get some midweek testing.

All in all not exactly a viable financial prospect.

Looks like the Wilkinson Sword has fallen on any hopes we might have had, with or without any Gillettes

Rob

[Alan Cox]

All it needs is .....
6) a race control building,

I take it, Steve, that you would no longer consider a redundant double-decker bus as suitable premises from which to run a race meeting. Can't see anything wrong with it myself.

[alansart]

I take it, Steve, that you would no longer consider a redundant double-decker bus as suitable premises from which to run a race meeting. Can't see anything wrong with it myself.

...and would they keep the same floral features



Photo blatantly knicked from Simon Arron

Edited by alansart, 17 November 2009 - 10:19.

[Giraffe]

Looks like the Wilkinson Sword has fallen on any hopes we might have had, with or without any Gillettes

Rob

It was not even a close shave, Rob.............

[Giraffe]

A bit of blatent nostalgia, programme from 23rd April 1977 with notes by our very own Ian Smith-Diz.


By giraffe138


By giraffe138

[Steve O'Brien]

Yes Steve, it was met blue with a gold stripe when raced in 1968, but for some reason or other it became yellow by 1970, and the Cooper BRM was painted from the same tin to match....

By giraffe138 at 2009-11-16

By giraffe138 at 2009-11-16

By giraffe138 at 2009-11-16

I see what your going on about now but dad and Scotty sold there cortina V8 end of 1968 and both went to Australia that looks like the old ex Dury Cortina which I think was always yellow, dad would never drive a yellow car again after all the trouble he had with a new Elva mk6 he bought in 1962
Steve.

[Stephen W]

Looks like the Wilkinson Sword has fallen on any hopes we might have had, with or without any Gillettes

Rob

I like the thrust of your comments and the rapier wit!

I take it, Steve, that you would no longer consider a redundant double-decker bus as suitable premises from which to run a race meeting. Can't see anything wrong with it myself.

It was alright in the old days but since the 9 hole golf course has had a lot of landscaping you will need to be higher up than a double decker bus!

[Barry Boor]

I HATE these threads!

I get all excited and enthusiastic at the prospect being put forward - then the reality of the matter sets in and I realise there is simply NO WAY it's EVER going to happen.

A bit like St. Pauli winning the Bundesliga!

[elansprint72]

Back in 2004 I was lucky enough to participate in the Aintree Festival of Motorsport, the last time the full (well apart from the cop standing around at the Melling crossing) circuit was driven and I can tell you that from the end of the finishing straight, through Waterway and towards the Anchor crossing it is like loose gravel in places. Our weapon of choice was a Cooper S and we actually slowed down due to the battering that the underside was getting.
Not a cheap fix, I think.
Standing on the grass right at the side of the straight was a full-size road roller; imagine the dull clang if someone had hit that.
That Railway Straight- wow! Not having to get hard on the brakes for Club makes a world of difference.

Edited by elansprint72, 17 November 2009 - 17:23.

[Giraffe]

That Railway Straight- wow! Not having to get hard on the brakes for Club makes a world of difference.

For years on a Tuesday night, my post was at the end of the Railway Straight on the entrance to Club (by the escape road). Cars would overshoot, too late for the escape road and disappear into the long grass on the outfield. They'd stall, and I'd give them a couple of minutes before going to look for them. Then, halfway in, an engine would fire up...... oh S--T!

[Simon Arron]

I haven't bothered with Libre for this year [Sun 29 Nov]

Mr S. I will be in Cheshire that weekend, so if there is an Anglesey meeting on the Sunday... Do I apply directly to you for a media pass, or to some lower authority?

Let me know,
SA

[Stephen W]

Mr S. I will be in Cheshire that weekend, so if there is an Anglesey meeting on the Sunday... Do I apply directly to you for a media pass, or to some lower authority?

Let me know,
SA

On the 28th Dave Taylor will be "testing" the VW Beetle Special Saloon at Anglesey!