43 replies to this topic

[JamesHunt]

“For me Felipe and Fernando are the best drivers couple in Formula 1. I am convinced that they both will be very motivated and will want to win. I am not worried about having two Latin drivers, which may be for the first time in our history. They both know very well that first of all they are racing for Ferrari and not for themselves. I enjoy reminding you that here we have a real team spirit; not just in words but in reality: an example is the relationship we have with a person like Michael Schumacher, who this year didn’t hesitate to be available to help the team in a difficult moment.”

http://www.ferrari.c...r_coppia_2.aspx?

He didnt wait too long...

[kismet]

Well, what the heck do you expect? He used to say the same thing about Ferrari's previous driver lineup.

[grunge]

''couple''...

[maverick69]

"I always do the dishes. You're such a lazy bugger. No more I tell you. No more."

[Mandzipop]

"I always do the dishes. You're such a lazy bugger. No more I tell you. No more."

[SeanValen]

Double WC winner Alonso

Runner up WC 2008 Massa

Kimi wasn't a champion arriving to Ferrari, I guess you cay say it's actually the strongest line up on the grid and I think Massa sort of did become better then alot of us thought, so all in all, Luca is right, for the current climate of drivers, and I used to be quite a critic of Massa and Alonso, but I still think Alonso needs to show his worth now more then ever, he could be under pressure alot more in ways we haven't seen since him and Hamilton, mainly because Massa has worked out nicely for Ferrari, he's been in the game for a bit now, Alonso now is coming into the life of a ferrari driver, and like Kimi before him, Luca expects something special from him, and even Schumacher will be as well, as Schumi's opinons helped make the ferrari's presidents mind up. But were Alonso and Kimi just much better on michelins then bridgstone, that's the question, and I think I still am waiting to see, or maybe Massa just did some great jobs on some tracks, where we would rely on Schumacher Michael to be the ultimate benchmark at ferrari and in f1, it's been a cagey issue to analyse ferrari drivers without Michael there, but it's clear, Massa has geled with those f1 cars very well and I think Schumacher apprentice's hasn't finished his job just yet.

Edited by SeanValen, 15 November 2009 - 20:28.

[George Costanza]

“For me Felipe and Fernando are the best drivers couple in Formula 1. I am convinced that they both will be very motivated and will want to win. I am not worried about having two Latin drivers, which may be for the first time in our history. They both know very well that first of all they are racing for Ferrari and not for themselves. I enjoy reminding you that here we have a real team spirit; not just in words but in reality: an example is the relationship we have with a person like Michael Schumacher, who this year didn’t hesitate to be available to help the team in a difficult moment.”

http://www.ferrari.c...r_coppia_2.aspx?

He didnt wait too long...

Luca must truly miss Ross Brawn.

Edited by George Costanza, 15 November 2009 - 20:24.

[Clatter]

Double WC winner Alonso

Runner up WC 2008 Massa

Kimi wasn't a champion arriving to Ferrari, I guess you cay say it's actually the strongest line up on the grid and I think Massa sort of did become better then alot of us thought, so all in all, Luca is right, for the current climate of drivers.

All a matter of opinion.

LH/KR or LH/JB. 2 WDC's in the team is on paper a stronger pairing.

[Wolfie]

And LdM said this in 2008:

Luca di Montezemelo doesn't want Alonso as Räikkönen's team mate

22.4.2008 13:23
STT–REUTERS–HS
Milan

Luca di Montezemolo doesn't see getting Fernando Alonso as Räikkönen's team mate favourable.

"A Räikkönen–Alonso-pair would be the same as if you would want to hurt yourself. I want two equal drivers who co-operate, Montezemolo told La Gazzetta dello Sport.
___________________

That means only one thing - Alonso will be driver number one if you believe Luca's words.

[SeanValen]

All a matter of opinion.

LH/KR or LH/JB. 2 WDC's in the team is on paper a stronger pairing.

Everything is a matter of opinion when thinking about the best drivers in f1, especially with Schumacher gone.

The answer isn't as clear anymore, some drivers may not be cut out for ferrari life, and maybe Alonso won't ever be as good as he was in the renault of 2005/2006, some rules and cars with certain drivers make exceptional performances they can't recapture to impress like befpre, Kimi on michelins seemed more consistent, Kimi on bridgestones had the unsual where I do find the time here etc moment I think Kimi and Alonso are a little more leveed out now that michelin have gone. Kimi would be the best out there if Michelin were still around, just something about ferrari/bridgestone learning curve sort of reset Kimi's career, when Luca said in 2007 France "WHERE IS THE REAL RAKKINEN, THE ONE THEY ALL FEAR", he was right, Kimi at times, especially at france, was the only guy I think who could do those Schumacher type laps, even Massa said of Kimi at France 2008, until his breakdown, there was nothing I can do, so clearly Kimi's talent is still special, but not extracted as expected in the ferrari era, in the way, the fans, luca and even me wanted, but on some tracks, he was on Schumacher type form, and Michael Schumacher knew he was special many years ago, but in terms of technical extraction of his talent across these tyre changes/cars, it didn't quite come off, the qualifyer was there and there abouts. Even considering bad things happened to Kimi in his career, even when they happened, he just seemed more deadly on michelins.



Maybe Hamilton and Massa would be the strongest pairing at Ferrari, but Alonso is still deserves the respect, but it wqn't fully come until he overcomes Massa a bit more then Kimi.

Races where Alonso needs to win Massa over on, are behrain and turkey, Massa tracks.

I hope Alonso doesn't start blaming the team like he did with mclaren and renault at times when his teamates had good moments, just can't do that at ferrari, he's going to have to live with massa doing good at times, because he will, he's at ferrari now, it's a honour, enjoy it. Won't ever get better then ferrari, he knows that.

Edited by SeanValen, 15 November 2009 - 20:46.

[MikeTekRacing]

Luca di Montezemolo
I want two equal drivers who co-operate, Montezemolo told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

That means only one thing - Alonso will be driver number one if you believe Luca's words.

wow. how does that mean Alonso will be number one?

[grunge]

Everything is a matter of opinion when thinking about the best drivers in f1, especially with Schumacher gone.

The answer isn't as clear anymore, some drivers may not be cut out for ferrari life, and maybe Alonso won't ever be as good as he was in the renault of 2005/2006, some rules and cars with certain drivers make exceptional performances they can't recapture to impress like befpre, Kimi on michelins seemed more consistent, Kimi on bridgestones had the unsual where I do find the time here etc moment I think Kimi and Alonso are a little more leveed out now that michelin have gone. Kimi would be the best out there if Michelin were still around, just something about ferrari/bridgestone learning curve sort of reset Kimi's career, when Luca said in 2007 France "WHERE IS THE REAL RAKKINEN, THE ONE THEY ALL FEAR", he was right, Kimi at times, especially at france, was the only guy I think who could do those Schumacher type laps, even Massa said of Kimi at France 2008, until his breakdown, there was nothing I can do, so clearly Kimi's talent is still special, but not extracted as expected in the ferrari era, in the way, the fans, luca and even me wanted, but on some tracks, he was on Schumacher type form, and Michael Schumacher knew he was special many years ago, but in terms of technical extractino of his talent across these tyre changes/cars, it didn't quite come off, the qualifyer was there and there abouts.



Maybe Hamilton and Massa would be the strongest pairing at Ferrari, but Alonso is still deserves the respect, but it wqn't fully come until he overcomes Massa a bit more then Kimi.

on a side note,kimi/lewis to me is stronger..with the slicks this year,weve seen the former's new tire understeer isue resolved and his performances are there to see during the later half..with mac next year,i believe hell be back to what were accustomed from him...lewis hamilton will be stronger then before..

Edited by grunge, 15 November 2009 - 20:53.

[MikeTekRacing]

Maybe Hamilton and Massa would be the strongest pairing at Ferrari, but Alonso is still deserves the respect, but it wqn't fully come until he overcomes Massa a bit more then Kimi.

a bit more?
to overcome him a bit more it is needed to at least be equal to him

kimi over the years was a little bit under felipe, or equal. alonso will have to do way better than that to ask for number one

[SeanValen]

on a side note,kimi/lewis to me is stronger..with the slicks this year,weve seen the former's new tire understeer isue resolved and his performances are there to see during the later half..with mac next year,i believe hell be back to what were accustomed from him...lewis hamilton will be stronger then before..

I think Kimi vs Hamilton at Mclaren would be the most interesting team up, Hamilton is a great qualifyer, and Kimi at times is the fastest out there.

[Anomnader]

Why is it until a few years ago you heard not a peep from Luca and now you can't stop him yapping, unfortunatly most of it seems to be face palm material, he is loving the sound of his own voice too much and getting too involved in the day to day operations of Ferrari, I think he is going to be a cause of worry for Ferraris future F1 effort.

[SeanValen]

a bit more?
to overcome him a bit more it is needed to at least be equal to him

kimi over the years was a little bit under felipe, or equal. alonso will have to do way better than that to ask for number one

Sometimes I feel I can't make up my mind on the current drivers, with Schumacher M it was easy, he was the best and still is, but these days, with these current drivers, I don't see any clear signal for one that stands out. So I'm a friend to all fans, I agree with you all, Kimi is great, Lewis is great, , Massa is great, positive vibes, EXCELLENT. Happy DAYS

Edited by SeanValen, 15 November 2009 - 21:33.

[maccaFTW]

In my mind, the strongest possible pairing on the grid would be Hamilton and Vettel.

Both are horrendously quick.

Both are amazing in the wet.

Both appear to have good technical aptitude.

Both seem to be good with oversteer. (Which, IMO, is faster.)

Edited by maccaFTW, 15 November 2009 - 21:51.

[primer]

Any team which has either Lewis or Fernando as one of their drivers already has one of the strongest driver line ups on the grid, simply due to the amount of heavy lifting these two guys do. The other driver becomes a formality.

Edited by primer, 15 November 2009 - 21:56.

[steph90]

Yes they are in my view and it's fairly simple. The best driver line ups would be LHKR and FAFM because this would allow the cars to be developed to suit style. Kimi and Lewis oversteer the other two the opp. Now what makes FAFM better is FA best driver on grid? Always performs and consistent and the other 3 just aren't that consistent. They may be 5% more spectacular and better in a race but over a season usually Fernando would have the upper hand. Now that said, FA won't destroy Felipe at all. Felipe can be inconsistent and make errors but he is still growing and ironing them out, Kimi delivers when he wants and Lewis can make serious errors.
That's why Ferrari should be strongest but that doesn't mean they will win. It depends on many things.

[Sunflower]

Any team which has either Lewis or Fernando as one of their drivers already has one of the strongest driver line ups on the grid, simply due to the amount of heavy lifting these two guys do. The other driver becomes a formality.

I would certainly put Kimi, Massa into that list. Maybe even Kubica/Button not too sure about them thou,

[MaxFan1]

I would certainly put Kimi, Massa into that list. Maybe even Kubica/Button not too sure about them thou,

Kimi doesn't bring enough money into the team to develop the car because he hates PR. He just demands a fast car but doesn't contribute anything towards it.

[JarnoA]

Sometimes I feel I can't make up my mind on the current drivers, with Schumacher M it was easy, he was the best and still is, but these days,

2006?

[Flamini]

In my mind, the strongest possible pairing on the grid would be Hamilton and Vettel.

Both are horrendously quick.

Both are amazing in the wet.

Both appear to have good technical aptitude.

Both seem to be good with oversteer. (Which, IMO, is faster.)

+ both make unforced errors sometimes.

[acelik]

if massa drives just like before his accident, I'm sure they will be great couple. maybe they will be too noisy

[Sunflower]

Kimi doesn't bring enough money into the team to develop the car because he hates PR. He just demands a fast car but doesn't contribute anything towards it.

Not to sure how that should count against him. Dont the teams get paid per point in the Constructors Title also. Kimi has a huge fan base and this will sell alot of t-shirts/caps/jackets stickers whatever the team sells.

Someone made the comment in another thread here about how Kimi and Lewis have so much more votes then fernando as the fastest driver. The fans are the ones that buy whatever the teams sell not so?

Well i could be wrong..

[hobbes]

I don't understand what's the problem, he is just stating his opinion. Anyway unless KR joins McLaren then i agree with him.

[Mandzipop]

Yes they are in my view and it's fairly simple. The best driver line ups would be LHKR and FAFM because this would allow the cars to be developed to suit style. Kimi and Lewis oversteer the other two the opp. Now what makes FAFM better is FA best driver on grid? Always performs and consistent and the other 3 just aren't that consistent. They may be 5% more spectacular and better in a race but over a season usually Fernando would have the upper hand. Now that said, FA won't destroy Felipe at all. Felipe can be inconsistent and make errors but he is still growing and ironing them out, Kimi delivers when he wants and Lewis can make serious errors.
That's why Ferrari should be strongest but that doesn't mean they will win. It depends on many things.

Actually Felipe isn't as inconsistant as people seem to think.

This is the career DNF percentage due to driver errors for the 2009 grid (courtesy of Dolomite).

32.1% - Nelsinho Piquet (9/28)
26.9% - Adrian Sutil (14/52)
22.2% - Sebastien Bourdais (6/27)
18.6% - Sebastian Vettel (8/43)
17.6% - Sebastien Buemi (3/17)
15.7% - Luca Badoer (8/51)
13.0% - Giancarlo Fisichella (30/231)
12.8% - Jarno Trulli (28/218)
11.5% - Mark Webber (16/139)
11.1% - Kazuki Nakajima (4/36)
11.1% - Timo Glock (4/36)
10.6% - Rubens Barrichello (30/284)
10.0% - Nico Rosberg (7/70)
09.9% - Jenson Button (17/171)
09.6% - Heikki Kovalainen (5/52)
08.9% - Kimi Räikkönen (14/157)
08.7% - Felipe Massa (10/115)
08.3% - Nick Heidfeld (14/168)
07.7% - Lewis Hamilton (4/52)
07.0% - Robert Kubica (4/57)
06.4% - Fernando Alonso (9/140)

That is down to driver error.

So next year consistancy of race winners, Ferrari's will average at 7.55%.
The only 2 driver combination that can beat it is Lewis and Robert at 7.35%.

Also you meed to take into account the fact that certain drivers have often had more incidents due to being at the back of the grid or being midfield therefore you are possibly more forced into mistakes. Obviously not related to place finishes, but it does give an idea of how consistant a driver is in relation to trouble avoidence.

[BMW_F1]

impressive stat for Kubica given that he's only been in f1 for less than 4 years..

[SpaMaster]

Other teams expected to be contenders next year like McLaren and Brawn haven't even announced their driver line-up yet. But Luca is already claiming his is the best. Proclaim by all mean that your line-up is the best. But wait for the other teams to announce their line-up before you compare. Clearly you can't call somebody the best if you don't have people to compare with?

[intelligentsia]

Actually Felipe isn't as inconsistant as people seem to think.

This is the career DNF percentage due to driver errors for the 2009 grid (courtesy of Dolomite).

32.1% - Nelsinho Piquet (9/28)
26.9% - Adrian Sutil (14/52)
22.2% - Sebastien Bourdais (6/27)
18.6% - Sebastian Vettel (8/43)
17.6% - Sebastien Buemi (3/17)
15.7% - Luca Badoer (8/51)
13.0% - Giancarlo Fisichella (30/231)
12.8% - Jarno Trulli (28/218)
11.5% - Mark Webber (16/139)
11.1% - Kazuki Nakajima (4/36)
11.1% - Timo Glock (4/36)
10.6% - Rubens Barrichello (30/284)
10.0% - Nico Rosberg (7/70)
09.9% - Jenson Button (17/171)
09.6% - Heikki Kovalainen (5/52)
08.9% - Kimi Räikkönen (14/157)
08.7% - Felipe Massa (10/115)
08.3% - Nick Heidfeld (14/168)
07.7% - Lewis Hamilton (4/52)
07.0% - Robert Kubica (4/57)
06.4% - Fernando Alonso (9/140)

That is down to driver error.

So next year consistancy of race winners, Ferrari's will average at 7.55%.
The only 2 driver combination that can beat it is Lewis and Robert at 7.35%.

Also you meed to take into account the fact that certain drivers have often had more incidents due to being at the back of the grid or being midfield therefore you are possibly more forced into mistakes. Obviously not related to place finishes, but it does give an idea of how consistant a driver is in relation to trouble avoidence.

That is not just driver error - "driver related errors" only i.e 'crash/accident/collision/spin/spun off' irrespective of who may have been at fault:

[intelligentsia]

Technically Luca is right, Brawn and Mclaren haven't announced their "couples" yet.

[BMW_F1]

Other teams expected to be contenders next year like McLaren and Brawn haven't even announced their driver line-up yet. But Luca is already claiming his is the best. Proclaim by all mean that your line-up is the best. But wait for the other teams to announce their line-up before you compare. Clearly you can't call somebody the best if you don't have people to compare with?

If Massa bested Kimi and Luca considers Alonso better than Lewis then what other driver lineup would be better than Massa/Alonso in his mind?

[Raelene]

mmaybe they can both give LDM some driving lessons then.....


http://www.f1fanatic...-team-pictures/

[scheivlak]

This is the career DNF percentage due to driver errors for the 2009 grid (courtesy of Dolomite).

32.1% - Nelsinho Piquet (9/28)
26.9% - Adrian Sutil (14/52)
22.2% - Sebastien Bourdais (6/27)
18.6% - Sebastian Vettel (8/43)
17.6% - Sebastien Buemi (3/17)
15.7% - Luca Badoer (8/51)
13.0% - Giancarlo Fisichella (30/231)
12.8% - Jarno Trulli (28/218)
11.5% - Mark Webber (16/139)
11.1% - Kazuki Nakajima (4/36)
11.1% - Timo Glock (4/36)
10.6% - Rubens Barrichello (30/284)
10.0% - Nico Rosberg (7/70)
09.9% - Jenson Button (17/171)
09.6% - Heikki Kovalainen (5/52)
08.9% - Kimi Räikkönen (14/157)
08.7% - Felipe Massa (10/115)
08.3% - Nick Heidfeld (14/168)
07.7% - Lewis Hamilton (4/52)
07.0% - Robert Kubica (4/57)
06.4% - Fernando Alonso (9/140)

That is down to driver error.

Rather doubtful statistics, I think it's just too high for quite a few drivers.
Maybe this Dolomite guy counts every collision as a driver error - irrespective of who causes it? Or has he counted a crash as a result of a mechanical failure as a driver error in some cases?

Edit: I see intelligentsia beat me to it....
Even so, e.g. Nick Heidfeld has only 11 crashes/collisions to his name according to Forix, eight of them in his first 3 years of F1. How 'Dolomite' gets to 14 I can only guess...

Edited by scheivlak, 15 November 2009 - 23:13.

[noikeee]

Actually Felipe isn't as inconsistant as people seem to think.

This is the career DNF percentage due to driver errors for the 2009 grid (courtesy of Dolomite).

32.1% - Nelsinho Piquet (9/28)
26.9% - Adrian Sutil (14/52)
22.2% - Sebastien Bourdais (6/27)
18.6% - Sebastian Vettel (8/43)
17.6% - Sebastien Buemi (3/17)
15.7% - Luca Badoer (8/51)
13.0% - Giancarlo Fisichella (30/231)
12.8% - Jarno Trulli (28/218)
11.5% - Mark Webber (16/139)
11.1% - Kazuki Nakajima (4/36)
11.1% - Timo Glock (4/36)
10.6% - Rubens Barrichello (30/284)
10.0% - Nico Rosberg (7/70)
09.9% - Jenson Button (17/171)
09.6% - Heikki Kovalainen (5/52)
08.9% - Kimi Räikkönen (14/157)
08.7% - Felipe Massa (10/115)
08.3% - Nick Heidfeld (14/168)
07.7% - Lewis Hamilton (4/52)
07.0% - Robert Kubica (4/57)
06.4% - Fernando Alonso (9/140)

That is down to driver error.

So next year consistancy of race winners, Ferrari's will average at 7.55%.
The only 2 driver combination that can beat it is Lewis and Robert at 7.35%.

Also you meed to take into account the fact that certain drivers have often had more incidents due to being at the back of the grid or being midfield therefore you are possibly more forced into mistakes. Obviously not related to place finishes, but it does give an idea of how consistant a driver is in relation to trouble avoidence.

Weird, I was under the impression Lewis had thrown the car into the wall quite a few more times. Same for Nakajima (only four??!!). I also have no memory at all of Webber binning it more than usual yet he's far down the list. I wonder if my perception isn't catching up with reality, or if those stats are a bit funky instead...

As for the "couple", I've exceeded my share of gay jokes for the month. Plus HarryReams took care of that nicely.

[undersquare]

Actually Felipe isn't as inconsistant as people seem to think.

This is the career DNF percentage due to driver errors for the 2009 grid (courtesy of Dolomite)....

. Obviously not related to place finishes, but it does give an idea of how consistant a driver is in relation to trouble avoidence.

Interesting list . Striking that apart from Vettel, who's very young still, the fastest guys are also the least error-prone.

[SpaMaster]

If Massa bested Kimi and Luca considers Alonso better than Lewis then what other driver lineup would be better than Massa/Alonso in his mind?

Massa bested Kimi?? That is not what I call "besting".
Luca considers Alonso better than Lewis?? A rookie Hamilton matched Alonso, and Luca sees that as Alonso being better than Kimi. He must be pretty delusional then.

Edited by SpaMaster, 15 November 2009 - 23:25.

[BMW_F1]

. He must be pretty delusional then.

or maybe you are..

[SpaMaster]

or maybe you are..

Ya, because I don't consider Alonso to be better than Hamilton from the 2007 season.

[scheivlak]

Weird, I was under the impression Lewis had thrown the car into the wall quite a few more times. Same for Nakajima (only four??!!). I also have no memory at all of Webber binning it more than usual yet he's far down the list.

According to Forix - and as intelligentsia pointed out this is not a list of driver errors but of crashes/collisions etc. irrespective of guilt - Hamilton had indeed only 4 DNFs this way. But - trusting Forix- strangely enough Nakajima has 5 indeed (which makes some difference percentage wise) and Mark Webber 18 DNFs instead of 16.

Edited by scheivlak, 15 November 2009 - 23:37.

[bogi]

2drivers1cup

[ZenSpeed]

All a matter of opinion.

LH/KR or LH/JB. 2 WDC's in the team is on paper a stronger pairing.

Absolutely, but if I was a team manager I would Ferrari's duo over any other currently available. Both LH/JB or LH/KR are awesome paing and Brawn's potential JB/NR or JB/KR or NR/KR are also excellent, without forgetting Vettel/Webber. But if you look at victories, poles, fastest laps.......anyway, I hope both McLaren and Brawn get one of the above speculated duos, as I Ferrari fan I hope to win both titles at the last 2010 race after an awesome and fair fight with the above teams. Here is to a BRILLIANT and EXCITING 2010 season.

[ZenSpeed]

Why is it until a few years ago you heard not a peep from Luca and now you can't stop him yapping, unfortunatly most of it seems to be face palm material, he is loving the sound of his own voice too much and getting too involved in the day to day operations of Ferrari, I think he is going to be a cause of worry for Ferraris future F1 effort.

I think you are really underestimating LDM

[ZenSpeed]

I would certainly put Kimi, Massa into that list. Maybe even Kubica/Button not too sure about them thou,

and young Vettel???