38 replies to this topic

[F3000man]

No, I don't mean the known drivers, a. k. a., Ivan Capelli and Stefano Modena.

I refer to these drivers that tried to face the international motorsport with no money, no fame and only some speed. Drivers who used to carry with them a lot of little local sponsors and who were so numerous that, before the Superprix of Brum in 1986, they could gather themselves to form a soccer team against the rest of the drivers! Names like Aldo Bertuzzi, Alessandro Santin, Franco Scapini and Franco Tacchino. Can you remember them?

[Arjan de Roos]

No, I don't mean the known drivers, a. k. a., Ivan Capelli and Stefano Modena.

I refer to these drivers that tried to face the international motorsport with no money, no fame and only some speed. Drivers who used to carry with them a lot of little local sponsors and who were so numerous that, before the Superprix of Brum in 1986, they could gather themselves to form a soccer team against the rest of the drivers! Names like Aldo Bertuzzi, Alessandro Santin, Franco Scapini and Franco Tacchino. Can you remember them?

At the F3000 race in Zandvoort Guido Dacco and Alessandro Santin took part, so did Lamberto Leoni. Pirro and Capelli were there too. I was cheering for Gabriele Tarquini as he was the karting world champ! A rainy race with a small group of racers or so it seemed for a lower formula. Aparant was the incorrect was the story before season's start that most cars would be the former atmospheric F1 cars. All cars were newly developped.

[rateus]

Well a few teams did try the ex-F1 cars, but quickly realised they were no match for the bespoke Marches and Ralts - the same fate befell those who bought Lolas (they'd recycled their CART monocoques) - so by Zandvoort (the penultimate race that year), they'd all given up or switched.

Back on topic, I did use to marvel at the hordes of Italians who showed up for races year after year, some of them talented, some clearly not, but all seeming to have perfect names for racing drivers. Of the drivers you mentioned Santin stood out as someone who could have gone further with a bit more money - the likes of Bertuzzi and Ballabio on the other hand clearly had far too much cash for their own good...

Ruggero Melgrati, Domenico Gitto, Wladimiro de Tommaso, where are you now?

[ensign14]

Ruggero Melgrati, Domenico Gitto, Wladimiro de Tommaso, where are you now?

Have a look.;)

[F3000man]

Well a few teams did try the ex-F1 cars, but quickly realised they were no match for the bespoke Marches and Ralts - the same fate befell those who bought Lolas (they'd recycled their CART monocoques) - so by Zandvoort (the penultimate race that year), they'd all given up or switched.

Back on topic, I did use to marvel at the hordes of Italians who showed up for races year after year, some of them talented, some clearly not, but all seeming to have perfect names for racing drivers. Of the drivers you mentioned Santin stood out as someone who could have gone further with a bit more money - the likes of Bertuzzi and Ballabio on the other hand clearly had far too much cash for their own good...

Ruggero Melgrati, Domenico Gitto, Wladimiro de Tommaso, where are you now?

Santin was one of the unluckiest drivers I ever noticed about. He was known for being the first driver to ever crash in a F3000 race, in the first corner of Silverstone 1985. He really had sponsorship problems apart from oil company Biella Petroli, who sponsored him during F3000 days, as we saw him driving for no less than five teams in the 1986 season. I cannot remember of a driver in the history of motorsport that drove for so many teams in just one season.

Bertuzzi and Ballabio weren't so good, but both struggled on bad machinery. That Montecarlo 001 Ballabio tried to qualify at Imola 1986 was completely awful. Unforgettable was the crash they got involved in Curaçao, with all the mess ending on a fight between them in the pits

Tony di Tommaso has its website with a lot of photos.

[rateus]

Santin was one of the unluckiest drivers I ever noticed about. He was known for being the first driver to ever crash in a F3000 race, in the first corner of Silverstone 1985.

He didn't even make it that far - Autosport's seasonal survey has a head-on shot from Copse corner of the approaching ball of spray with Santin's nose peeking out at 90 degrees to the intended direction of travel just after the spectator bridge

[F3000man]

He didn't even make it that far - Autosport's seasonal survey has a head-on shot from Copse corner of the approaching ball of spray with Santin's nose peeking out at 90 degrees to the intended direction of travel just after the spectator bridge

Whoa. Is there a way to post it here?

[rateus]

I cannot remember of a driver in the history of motorsport that drove for so many teams in just one season.

Santin wasn't even the only Italian to drive for 5 F3000 teams in 1986 - Guido Daccò did as well! Both had spells at Hotz, Coloni and San Remo, Santin added Lola Motorsport and Eddie Jordan while Daccò also turned out for Ecurie Monaco and Italia 3000 Intl.

Sorry, no scanner so I can't post the pic.

[Twin Window]

Drivers who used to carry with them a lot of little local sponsors and who were so numerous that, before the Superprix of Brum in 1986, they could gather themselves to form a soccer team against the rest of the drivers! Names like Aldo Bertuzzi, Alessandro Santin, Franco Scapini and Franco Tacchino. Can you remember them?

Erm, that's not strictly true - and I can say that with reasonable authority - as I scored a goal for Italy during the 'Italy v Rest of the World' football match at that very Birmingham Superprix!

If your interest concerns the many occasional F3000 drivers of that period there is always Tommy Byrne who only participated in one F3000 race; and funnily enough it was the... 1986 Birmingham Superprix!

[Tim Wilkinson]

(edited to smaller version). Credit - Autosport, Nov 28th '85. Photographer unknown.

Edited by Tim Wilkinson, 16 November 2009 - 21:33.

[Simon Arron]

The out-of-shape March 85B is Alessandro Santin's, obviously: the other identifiable drivers are Emanuele Pirro (9), Mike Thackwell (1), Michel Ferté (3) and Tomas Kaiser (7). I'm vaguely in that picture, because I was in the Dunlop Tower - as fine a media perch as Britain has ever had.

I loved F3000 for the paddock camaraderie... and the endless supply of unexpected backmarkers (not just Italians) who pitched up from time to time, ie almost every fortnight. Marzio Romano, Simon Kane, Urs Dudler, Guido Knycz, Gianluca Calcagni, Enrico Debenedetti... It was a wonderful place to work.

[frp]

The out-of-shape March 85B is Alessandro Santin's, obviously: the other identifiable drivers are Emanuele Pirro (9), Mike Thackwell (1), Michel Ferté (3) and Tomas Kaiser (7). I'm vaguely in that picture, because I was in the Dunlop Tower - as fine a media perch as Britain has ever had.

I was in the Dunlop Tower as well, in the hospitality suite next to the commentary position. The race was disrupted by a lot of pit-stops and, as a mere punter (on this occasion pass-blagger!), I was very proud when one of the commentary team took a peek through the glass at my lap chart. So proud, in fact, that I still remember it nearly twenty-five years later!

[Thundersports]

Guido Knycz there's a name still lurking around British F3000 in the early 90's in the great Colin Bennetts Cobra Motorsport team. And the mercurial "Gimax" jnr..........

Edited by Thundersport, 16 November 2009 - 23:42.

[Ken Herd]

The out-of-shape March 85B is Alessandro Santin's, obviously: the other identifiable drivers are Emanuele Pirro (9), Mike Thackwell (1), Michel Ferté (3) and Tomas Kaiser (7). I'm vaguely in that picture, because I was in the Dunlop Tower - as fine a media perch as Britain has ever had.

I loved F3000 for the paddock camaraderie... and the endless supply of unexpected backmarkers (not just Italians) who pitched up from time to time, ie almost every fortnight. Marzio Romano, Simon Kane, Urs Dudler, Guido Knycz, Gianluca Calcagni, Enrico Debenedetti... It was a wonderful place to work.

Simon in your post you mention Simon Kane, do you remember which team he ran with

[Tim Wilkinson]

Simon in your post you mention Simon Kane, do you remember which team he ran with

Reference to Autosport (I've just bought a full set back to '81, best investment ever, I reckon!) says he appeared at Hockenheim and Brands Hatch in '91, in a 1990 Leyton-House run by Motor Racing DiWheel, with some Snap-On backing. Failed to qualify for either - not slowest at Hockenheim, but 31st of 31 at Brands.

[F3000man]

The out-of-shape March 85B is Alessandro Santin's, obviously: the other identifiable drivers are Emanuele Pirro (9), Mike Thackwell (1), Michel Ferté (3) and Tomas Kaiser (7). I'm vaguely in that picture, because I was in the Dunlop Tower - as fine a media perch as Britain has ever had.

I loved F3000 for the paddock camaraderie... and the endless supply of unexpected backmarkers (not just Italians) who pitched up from time to time, ie almost every fortnight. Marzio Romano, Simon Kane, Urs Dudler, Guido Knycz, Gianluca Calcagni, Enrico Debenedetti... It was a wonderful place to work.

Few information I have about these drivers, apart from what we have at WATN. Guido Knycz seemed to be a typical backmarker, slow and too agressive but not efficient.

Wasn't Marzio Romano a driver who died a year ago in a saloon race?

[F3000man]

(edited to smaller version). Credit - Autosport, Nov 28th '85. Photographer unknown.

Beyond the guys pointed by Simon, we have the March-Cosworth (10) of Johnny Dumfries behind the Ralt of Thackwell.

Santin had two first-lap accidents in 1985. In the second one, he lost what was expected to be his best chance in that season, in Estoril. With his teammate Tarquini having finished on the podium even though he started behind him, I wonder if Alessandro would have left F3000 with at least a podium in his pocket.

Did he have some chance of testing in F1?

Edited by F3000man, 17 November 2009 - 12:01.

[rateus]

Did he have some chance of testing in F1?

Not that I'm aware of, but one of the other drivers you mentioned in your original post did become an official F1 test driver - Franco Scapini filled that role for Life in 1990!

Don't think he ever got to drive the beast though...

[Thundersports]

Simon Kane did have a bit of a baptism of fire; the first time he had driven the recaltrient Leyton House the first time he had been on the Brands GP circuit, so it wasn't a dismal effort just a compromised one.

[Mallory Dan]

In the pic, the weather looks reasonably OK. From my memory it hosed it down all day, I was in the main grandstand, and getting thoroughly miserable. I presume Neilson in the 2nd Ralt is behind Pirro. After all the promise/hype re the new F3000 formula, the first race was much like the last couple of F2 seasons, ie Ralt domination. It did get better though I must admit. Best year for F3000? I'd go for 1987, decent drivers, few rubbish backmarkers, and many different winners in different cars.

[F3000man]

Not that I'm aware of, but one of the other drivers you mentioned in your original post did become an official F1 test driver - Franco Scapini filled that role for Life in 1990!

Don't think he ever got to drive the beast though...

He got to test it once, at Monza, before the start of the season. But it really doesn't count a lot, in the end...

[Richard Jenkins]

Few information I have about these drivers, apart from what we have at WATN. Guido Knycz seemed to be a typical backmarker, slow and too agressive but not efficient.

Wasn't Marzio Romano a driver who died a year ago in a saloon race?

Yep, sadly.

Knycz is alive & well though, still racing. Recently I solved his missing birthplace mystery at long, long last as being born in Trento.

[ensign14]

He got to test it once, at Monza, before the start of the season. But it really doesn't count a lot, in the end...

He also got to SIT in it, at Vallelunga, evidence here. No shot of it moving though.

[ebeneezer2]

Yep, sadly.

Knycz is alive & well though, still racing. Recently I solved his missing birthplace mystery at long, long last as being born in Trento.

That's just brought back a teenage memory...my brother and I saw the F3000 race at Silverstone in 1993 I believe, and he started last, finished last and was last and dropping back the entire way through..there was a period after that when whenever we were playing racing games against each other, we'd start nicknaming whoever was losing 'guido knycz', and entering that as the driver name whenever the other one wasn't looking! He drove for Crypton alongside Pedro Lamy that year, and Crypton was the reigning champion team..surely they could have found a better driver, or was he just incredibly loaded?

[ensign14]

I think they chose him by picking Scrabble letters at random out of a bag, blindfolded.

[ebeneezer2]

makes more sense than picking him for any other reason that I can think of, unless the team had some horrific debt that needed paying - which in fact they maybe did? Crypton doesn't appear on the team list for 1994 on the Speedsport website - did they become AutoSport racing the next season? I'm still curious about Knycz, anyone know about anything he did before or after F3000, or whether he actually thought he was on his way to Formula 1? It's the equivalent of a completely inexperienced, unknown driver being selected to drive for ART in GP2 next season

[Mansell Madgwick]

makes more sense than picking him for any other reason that I can think of, unless the team had some horrific debt that needed paying - which in fact they maybe did? Crypton doesn't appear on the team list for 1994 on the Speedsport website - did they become AutoSport racing the next season? I'm still curious about Knycz, anyone know about anything he did before or after F3000, or whether he actually thought he was on his way to Formula 1? It's the equivalent of a completely inexperienced, unknown driver being selected to drive for ART in GP2 next season

Guido Knycz raced a couple of part seasons of Italian F3 with ItalRacing in 1990-91 but never scored any points - I guess he could have raced Formula Alfa or Alfa Boxer or something before that but I can't find anything. I remember him racing British F2 in 1992, dicing with the mighty Marco Spiga! A quick Google shows that him and his dad Umberto are involved in historic racing in Trento.

A quick look on Driver Database reveals that a Marco Spiga is racing in the Swiss Formula Renault 2.0 championship. Is that the same guy??

[Thundersports]

Marco Spiga of Guido Basile Team Terropol fame!

[ebeneezer2]

Ah yes, I remember British Formula 3000/2 - seemed like a good idea, to use the previous year's F3000 cars to run a bargain-price alternative to the hideously expensive and underpromoted international series - it failed completely of course, being much lower regarded even than British Formula 3. Not sure there was ever anything wrong with the concept, it just needed slightly more decent junior formulae drivers to take part in it and that would have given it the momentum and got it some credibility, but of course that didn't happen.

And thanks for the Knycz info Mansell Madgwick - it seems he did have some sort of CV before F3000 then, although advancing from non-scoring in a season's worth of domestic Formula 3 races to having the most sought after drive outside Formula 1 was a pretty impressive promotion!

Edited by ebeneezer2, 18 November 2009 - 16:33.

[ensign14]

Marco Spiga of Guido Basile Team Terropol fame!

Basile had that advert for his pendant for YEARS in Autosport...

[ghinzani]

Basile had that advert for his pendant for YEARS in Autosport...

Remember his F3 team with Tim Davies in 86?

[Thundersports]

Ah yes, I remember British Formula 3000/2 - seemed like a good idea, to use the previous year's F3000 cars to run a bargain-price alternative to the hideously expensive and underpromoted international series - it failed completely of course, being much lower regarded even than British Formula 3. Not sure there was ever anything wrong with the concept, it just needed slightly more decent junior formulae drivers to take part in it and that would have given it the momentum and got it some credibility, but of course that didn't happen.

And thanks for the Knycz info Mansell Madgwick - it seems he did have some sort of CV before F3000 then, although advancing from non-scoring in a season's worth of domestic Formula 3 races to having the most sought after drive outside Formula 1 was a pretty impressive promotion!

Sorry have to disagree in 1991 the British F3000 had similar size grids to British F3 and a clashing weekend in June from memory we had a larger F3000 grid at Brands than F3 did at Thruxton. The series DID field some very talented drivers over the few years off the top of my head; Yvan Muller, Paul Warwick, Richard Dean, Gary Brabham etc. So I think to say it failed completely is unfair.

Edited by Thundersport, 19 November 2009 - 11:00.

[ensign14]

Remember his F3 team with Tim Davies in 86?

Vaguely, I remember Basile driving himself as well to no great effect. Did Terropol Productions produce anything other than one piece of jewellery?

[ebeneezer2]

Sorry have to disagree in 1991 the British F3000 had similar size grids to British F3 and a clashing weekend in June from memory we had a larger F3000 grid at Brands than F3 did at Thruxton. The series DID field some very talented drivers over the few years off the top of my head; Yvan Muller, Paul Warwick, Richard Dean, Gary Brabham etc. So I think to say it failed completely is unfair.

Well, the quantity may have been there, I just think the top 5 drivers in British F3 at any one time were better than those of British F3000. If you consider the top drivers from either series in the 1990-1993 era - From British F3000, they were the ones you said, plus maybe Pedro Chaves, Philippe Adams, Jason Elliot, Fredrik Ekblom, Dave Coyne, maybe a few others I've forgotten. From British F3 we got Mika Hakkinen, Mika Salo, Rubens Barrichello, David Coulthard, Gil De Ferran, Rickard Rydell and Christian Fittipaldi. I'm sure a lot of the reason why the British F3 drivers went on to achieve much more was budget related (British F3 was I'm guessing more expensive than British F3000 so the drivers most likely had more backing) but even taking that into account, I suspect they were a fair bit more talented. Having said that, it probably was an unusually strong few years for British F3, considering that list of drivers, which maybe makes the comparison a bit harsh on British F3000. Were you involved in British F3000 back then? Wasn't meaning to slag it off or anything, in fact I wanted it to work because I think the idea behind it was good. However its strength seemed to dwindle rather than increase after about 1992 though.

Edited by ebeneezer2, 19 November 2009 - 17:27.

[Thundersports]

I was involved and agree the talent/entry did tail off in 1992/93 however the budget is a good point as it was cheaper than F3 but didn't have the profile, I expect due to F3000s achilles heel of casual spectators not knowing what it was.
Ps Rickard Rydell ran in BF3000 in 1990 and dominated the first round at Brands, he looked like a champion until a huge testing shunt at the bombhole at Snetterton seemed to take the "edge" off his performance. Other drivers of note were Vincenzo Sospiri, Desire Wilson and a certain Damon Hill.

[ghinzani]

Ps Rickard Rydell ran in BF3000 in 1990 and dominated the first round at Brands, he looked like a champion until a huge testing shunt at the bombhole at Snetterton seemed to take the "edge" off his performance. Other drivers of note were Vincenzo Sospiri, Desire Wilson and a certain Damon Hill.

I recall Sospiri and Hill being fast having dropped off the INT3000 radar at that point, or not made it on yet... however I dont recall Wilson pulling up any trees? I do recall Frddie Ekblom looking the real deal one year, and also Dave Coyne absolutely flying after Warwick died, what a shame their battles werent together more that year. Also remember Jason Elliot being drafted in to replace Warwick but not really doing the job, I dont think he was ever the driver he was after his big F3 testing shunt at the start of 88 or 89 at Thruxton.

[ebeneezer2]

I recall Sospiri and Hill being fast having dropped off the INT3000 radar at that point, or not made it on yet... however I dont recall Wilson pulling up any trees? I do recall Frddie Ekblom looking the real deal one year, and also Dave Coyne absolutely flying after Warwick died, what a shame their battles werent together more that year. Also remember Jason Elliot being drafted in to replace Warwick but not really doing the job, I dont think he was ever the driver he was after his big F3 testing shunt at the start of 88 or 89 at Thruxton.

Ekblom and Coyne looking good happened at the same time, in the races after Warwick died. There's a bit of a 'what if' with Dave Coyne in fact, he took part in the International F3000 round at Brands Hatch (this was in 1991). In testing prior to that, I think he drove Giovanna Amati's 91-spec car and I seem to remember reading that his times were right up there with Naspetti/Zanardi and co. For the actual race, he raced his 1990 spec car which wasn't on the pace - but if he'd been given Amati's car, if the testing times story is true, then we might just have seen one of the all time shock F3000 results.

[Thundersports]

In testing Coyne was posting 1.11s along with Zanardi/Fittipaldi all within a fag paper of each other. You also have to remember the GJ motorsport set up was run on a shoestring compared to the others at the front end. Come race weekend Coyne was back with his Reynard 90D and qualified half way down the grid, in the race he has a huge shunt at Westfield in the opening laps which unbeknown to the team cracked the tub. This accounted for Coynes loss of form in the remaining British F3000 as the crack wasn't discovered until the car was stripped for a winter rebuild. Meanwhile Amati finished last and lapped in the Brands race......

[ebeneezer2]

I assume that shoestring budget was largely provided by Amati, which was why they couldn't give the good car to Coyne! That was an interesting but annoying F3000 season, and in fact it is the reason why I think, unlike a lot of racing fans, that junior formulae should all be 1 make. A few good drivers were mired in the midfield that year (Apicella/Hill/McNish/Frentzen) just because their team gambled on the wrong car at the start of the year. I would have liked to have the seen how that season would have panned out if it had been 1 make - I reckon Apicella would have come out on top.