47 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

I only know two race track designers (okay, there is Clive Bowen from Apex), Hermann Tilke and John Hugenholtz. But who designed the other F1 tracks?`

Bahrain International Circuit (Manama, Bahrain): Hermann Tilke (GER)
Albert Park Grand Prix Circuit (Melbourne, Australien):
Sepang International Circuit (Sepang, Malaysia): Hermann Tilke (GER)
Shanghai International Circuit (Shanghai, China): Herman Tilke (GER)
Circuit de Catalunya (Barcelona, Spanien):
Circuit de Monaco (Monte Carlo, Monaco):
Istanbul Park (Istanbul, Türkei): Hermann Tilke (GER)
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve (Montreal, Kanada):
Valencia Street Circuit (Valencia, Spanien): Hermann Tilke (GER)
Silverstone Circuit (Silverstone, Großbritannien): Royal Automobile Club (GBR)
Hockenheimring (Hockenheim, Deutschland): John Hugenholtz (NED)/Herman Tilke (2002
Hungaroring (Budapest, Ungarn):
Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps (Spa, Belgien): Jules de Their (BEL), Henri Langlois Van Ophem (BEL)
Autodromo Nationale Monza (Monza, Italien): Milan Automobile Club (ITA)
Marina Bay Street Circuit: (Singapur): Hermann Tilke (GER)
Suzuka Circuit (Suzuka, Japan): John Hugenholtz (NED)
Korean International Circuit (Yeongam, Korea): Hermann Tilke (GER)
Yas Marinas Circuit (Abu Dhabi): Hermann Tilke (GER)
Autórdromo José Carlos Pace (Interlagos, Brasilien):

Can you help me?

[Kingsleyrob]

I only know two race track designers (okay, there is Clive Bowen from Apex), Hermann Tilke and John Hugenholtz. But who designed the other F1 tracks?`

Circuit de Monaco (Monte Carlo, Monaco):

Can you help me?

Anthony Noghes goes down in history as the "organiser" of the initial races at Monaco, and also as designer of the circuit. Top man

Rob

[f1steveuk]

Some circuits, Monaco, and Silverstone for example, didn't need a lot of designing as they evolved, Monaco as any street circuit would, Silverstone by connecting the airfield parimeter roads. Likewise the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve was delveloped from the roads around the Olympic village and rowing course. I think Monza started as roads within the Royal Park, and Albert Park similarly, but of course someone had to decide how to join the roads up to make a circuit!

[kayemod]

As far as Monaco is concerned, I think you'd need the name of the Principality's Clerk de Works back in 1929.

[Rob]

Didn't Louis Chiron have a hand in designing the circuit?

[Tim Murray]

According to the introduction he wrote for the book by David Hodges on the Monaco Grand Prix, Antony Noghès single-handedly devised the track layout:

"For days on end I went over the avenues of the Principality until I hit on the only possible circuit".

[LittleChris]

. Likewise the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve was delveloped from the roads around the Olympic village and rowing course.

I thought the roads on the Isle de Notre Dame were left over from Expo 67 rather than the 1976 Olympics ?

[Pink Snail]

I have nearly finished reading Tom Wheatcrofts book `Thunder in the Park` and if I have read correctly (I could be wrong!), the initial layout of Donington was `reconnoitred` by Fred Craner and his plan was taken on by the land owner of Donington Park in the early 1930`s. So there we have it, Donington was active and used as a racetrack long before the dis-used airfields form WW2 became tracks (no offence to them!) and was `designed` by Fred Craner....

[D-Type]

As Valencia and Singapore are largely existing streets I think it is incorrect to attribute the design to Herman Tilke.

Spa was originally a road circuit so the most that Jules de Their (BEL) and Henri Langlois Van Ophem can claim credit for the link from Les Combes to Blanchimont to form the new circuit and possibly for realigning Eau Rouge.

Interlagos was originally constructed in 1940. The land it is built on was originally earmarked for housing until it was found to be unsuitable and a race circuit complex was built insrtead. It is conceivable that the roads forming the circuit may have been originally planned to serve the housing development. Either way, someone must have designed it.

Both Catalunya and the Hungaroring are artificial circuits so someone must have designed these two.

[Pink Snail]

The Hungaroring was proposed as being the first track to be used for F1 behind the `Iron Curtain` all those years ago. A certain Mr Ecclestone followed the construction of the circuit very closely and had a lot to do with it in the early days. He is known to have declared it as the `best circuit in the world` on occasion (more than likely because of his `interest`) but I am under the impression that the local government were responsible for the design etc... (again I stand to be corrected!!)

[Ray Bell]

Way too hard to be categorical with some of these...

The Hockenheimring, for instance... it's been there for many years and then it's been modified. With modifications that span generations, so no one person could be said to be the designer, nor one team of designers.

Albert Park was a natural circuit that just fitted in with the roads through the park. Until 1960, at least. Then someone modified things to slow it down dramatically, to introduce some more interesting corners and make room for pit buildings etc.

You can be sure (I know it to be true anyway...) that people were rocketing around Albert Park as it was used in the fifites well before WW2. And in racing cars, what's more.

And the lake was used for powerboat races as well...

[Kingsleyrob]

I only know two race track designers (okay, there is Clive Bowen from Apex), Hermann Tilke and John Hugenholtz. But who designed the other F1 tracks?`

Hungaroring (Budapest, Ungarn):

Can you help me?

I'm going to throw the name of Istvan Papp in the ring for this one.

While the circuit design makes for tremendous spectator possibilities, Istvan Papp's layout was slow and limited overtaking possibilities, unless your name was Senna, Mansell, or Piquet, who marvelled the Hungarians in the mid to late 80's with their speed and agressive driving.

With acknowledgement to F1 database for the above and to Grandprix.com for the following

The valley was perfect, allowing architect Istvan Papp to design a track with marvelous spectating.

Rob

[f1steveuk]

I thought the roads on the Isle de Notre Dame were left over from Expo 67 rather than the 1976 Olympics ?

Your right, I'd forgotten Expo, and as we used to drive out passed some of the original buildings from that, it's an unforgivable error to make!

[Vitesse2]

I have nearly finished reading Tom Wheatcrofts book `Thunder in the Park` and if I have read correctly (I could be wrong!), the initial layout of Donington was `reconnoitred` by Fred Craner and his plan was taken on by the land owner of Donington Park in the early 1930`s. So there we have it, Donington was active and used as a racetrack long before the dis-used airfields form WW2 became tracks (no offence to them!) and was `designed` by Fred Craner....

Craner's original (1931) Donington circuit was gravel-surfaced and used for motorcycle racing. It seems to have attracted the attention of some local car racing enthusiasts, who ran ad hoc and totally unofficial races around the estate - see Rivers Fletcher's book "Mostly Motor Racing" for example - but they were usually chucked out by Mr Shields! However, he must have decided that car racing might be a good idea anyway and the first (slightly extended) tarmac circuit opened in 1933: there were two further revisions before the war.

[HistoryFan]

Thank you very much at all!

[Stephen W]

I'm going to throw the name of Istvan Papp in the ring for this one.

While the circuit design makes for tremendous spectator possibilities, Istvan Papp's layout was slow and limited overtaking possibilities, unless your name was Senna, Mansell, or Piquet, who marvelled the Hungarians in the mid to late 80's with their speed and agressive driving.

With acknowledgement to F1 database for the above and to Grandprix.com for the following

The valley was perfect, allowing architect Istvan Papp to design a track with marvelous spectating.

Rob

Wasn't the original design truncated when an underground spring was discovered?

[Kingsleyrob]

Wasn't the original design truncated when an underground spring was discovered?

The Hungarospring, perhaps?

Rob

[Ray Bell]

Which would have led to a Papp smear?

Always a problem...

[f1steveuk]

Funny that, Papp, that describes most of Tilkes circuits....................

[Allan Lupton]

Until the advent of that circuit, I always took it that a Hungaroring was the rubber bit that sealed the Hungarocap onto those jars of pickled gherkins . .

[SEdward]

I seem to recall that Jacky Ickx was consulted for the design of the new bit of Spa between Les Combes and Blanchimont.

Edward

[RA Historian]

Your right, I'd forgotten Expo, and as we used to drive out passed some of the original buildings from that, it's an unforgivable error to make!

Not unforgivable, just the years having their effect on the old gourd!

But yes, it is on the grounds of the old Expo 67 World's Fair. The first few years I went, 1978-81, I seem to remember a lot of the old buildings were still up, including the tower that was the British Pavilion at the fair. Several other buildings were already crumbling wrecks. Montreal has really done a lot to remake the island since those early years.

The rowing events for the 1976 Olympics were in the basin that is alongside the main straight and pits. I don't know off hand if any other Olympic events were held on Ile Notre Dame, but I am sure that Steve and others can answer that.

Tom

[HistoryFan]

Open are the designers from:

- Melbourne
- Barcelona
- Montréal
- Interlagos

Who designed the tracks there?

[Kingsleyrob]

Open are the designers from:

- Barcelona

Who designed the tracks there?

Apparently the main grandsatnd at Barcelona was designed by Hermann Tilke... http://sketchup.goog...841878cabcc3fcd

Rob

[f1steveuk]

The rowing events for the 1976 Olympics were in the basin that is alongside the main straight and pits. I don't know off hand if any other Olympic events were held on Ile Notre Dame, but I am sure that Steve and others can answer that.

Tom

The huge see through globe was still there as late as 2003. I recall going over the bridge to go to the circuit, and looking down on to the island there was a stadium, quite small, but I have no idea what events it staged.

The rowing course was perfect for the teams to indulge in their own waterbourne races I recall!!

[Rob Semmeling]

An Austrian newspaper reported in 2008 that Tilke penned the initial design for the Singapore street circuit but was not involved anymore after that. Apparently there were some differences of opinion with the organisers and the circuit was ultimately built by Kellogg Brown & Root.

[HistoryFan]

Apparently the main grandsatnd at Barcelona was designed by Hermann Tilke... http://sketchup.goog...841878cabcc3fcd

Rob

Thank you!

[chdphd]

Tilke's website: http://www.tilke-ac.de/en/0_0.php

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Open are the designers from:

- Melbourne
- Barcelona
- Montréal
- Interlagos

Who designed the tracks there?

I've already covered the first decade of Albert Park... that is the name of the circuit that's in the Melbourne inner suburbs and is used for the Grand Prix these days...

It was a park drive, was used for decades by those with a bent for having a quick drive in a confined space, and then between 1953 and 1960 was officially used as a racing circuit (after abortive attempts in 1934 and 1937 to get permission to race there...) running in an anti-clockwise direction.

So what you are seeking is the designer of the modifications to the Albert Park circuit.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Open are the designers from:

- Melbourne
- Barcelona
- Montréal
- Interlagos

Who designed the tracks there?

I've already covered the first decade of Albert Park... that is the name of the circuit that's in the Melbourne inner suburbs and is used for the Grand Prix these days...

It was a park drive, was used for decades by those with a bent for having a quick drive in a confined space, and then between 1953 and 1960 was officially used as a racing circuit (after abortive attempts in 1934 and 1937 to get permission to race there...) running in an anti-clockwise direction.

So what you are seeking is the designer of the modifications to the Albert Park circuit. Interlagos, of course, was another to be modified in recent years after having been established for decades.

[Pink Snail]

Craner's original (1931) Donington circuit was gravel-surfaced and used for motorcycle racing. It seems to have attracted the attention of some local car racing enthusiasts, who ran ad hoc and totally unofficial races around the estate - see Rivers Fletcher's book "Mostly Motor Racing" for example - but they were usually chucked out by Mr Shields! However, he must have decided that car racing might be a good idea anyway and the first (slightly extended) tarmac circuit opened in 1933: there were two further revisions before the war.

Ta for that Vitesse2! I stood to be corrected! Mr S did indeed decide that car racing could be financially rewarding. The circuit hasn`t really changed so much over the years, so remains pretty much as it was planned out in the early 30s.

[RA Historian]

The huge see through globe was still there as late as 2003. I recall going over the bridge to go to the circuit,

That was the US Pavilion from the 67 Expo. Everything but the large globe framework was destroyed in a fire. I have not been to Montreal since the 90s, so am interested in your observation that it was still standing a half dozen years ago. I wonder if it has any use at all, or is just being kept there as some type of sculpture, after the fact as it is.
Tom

[f1steveuk]

That was the US Pavilion from the 67 Expo. Everything but the large globe framework was destroyed in a fire. I have not been to Montreal since the 90s, so am interested in your observation that it was still standing a half dozen years ago. I wonder if it has any use at all, or is just being kept there as some type of sculpture, after the fact as it is.
Tom

You got me wondering if I dreamt it, but just found this on the Interwebnet,

"A fascinating massive geodesic dome, the structure has been preserved and repurposed into a museum dedicated to water and the environment known as the Biosphère. When initially built for the Expo, the dome symbolized American ingenuity and sophistication. It became an icon of the fair."


I also recall the Olympic village is all still along the river, and used as apartments?

[SPBHM]

About Interlagos, from what I read it was originally designed by Luiz Romero Sanson, the race track was part of a bigger project involving housing a race track and more re-creative/sportive constructions, but since it was the late 1930's when the project started the economic scenario was not so good so they only did the track,

but the track had some modifications in 1990


I think who came with this design was basically Francisco Rosa, but originally his design was a bit different with 4.8km so they made some modifications (like the "senna s") with the help of Ayrton Senna...

Edited by SPBHM, 13 December 2009 - 12:53.

[Duc-Man]

Hockenheim has appearently a similar history as Albert Park. The racing in Hockenheim began in 1932 on a couple of dirt-roads through the forrest. 1938 was the track shortened down from 12km to 7.7km length. The Motodrom was build after the new Autobahn A6 cut the track apart in 1965.
The red line shows roughly the part that got cut-off in '65:

And a picture from a map that was released by the tyre company Continental:

I would like to know where those other 4.3km were that got cut-off in '38.
Funny that google still has the satellite picture online from before the Tilke rebuild...

Edited by Duc-Man, 13 December 2009 - 15:46.

[Risil]

Duc-Man

Hockenheim from 1929, alongside the developments from it. The circuit zooms off down 'Autobahn Heidelburg', and possibly turns right at 'Schwetzingen' and joins up after the point where the Ostkurve was built. Dirt roads leading off into the forest for an indeterminate number of miles must've been pretty spooky...

And some other points that have no relation to the Hockenheimring: 1) I believe the Singapore circuit was eventually designed by the company that developed the Surfers Paradise circuit used by CART. 2) I'm pretty certain Carroll Shelby put together the F1 circuit at Dallas's Fair Park. The race was a disaster, but it was generally recognised to be the most interesting and challenging of the American city courses. 3) I'd love to see exactly how the Assen circuit was put together. All I know is that it took a lot of refinement, a lot of funny-shaped roads, and wasn't appreciated by the track's owners.

Edited by Risil, 13 December 2009 - 16:16.

[HistoryFan]

Nice details!

[Duc-Man]

The circuit zooms off down 'Autobahn Heidelburg', and possibly turns right at 'Schwetzingen' and joins up after the point where the Ostkurve was built.

Thank you for that link.
But: it was literally the other way around. Back then they drove anti-clockwise.

[Risil]

Thank you for that link.
But: it was literally the other way around. Back then they drove anti-clockwise.

Hmm. Also, I checked the place out on Google Maps last night, you can actually trace the gaps in the forest where the old dirt roads run/ran. Also, there's a little hotel at the village where the hairpin is, where a guest found a clogged drain in their room and forgot to report it. So they decided to put it onto Google. The wonders of the internet...

[Kein1275]

The real designer or architect of the Autodromo de Buenos Aires seems to be vanished in the mist of time, but in many records it is said that its " intelectual author" is Juan Domingo Perón, then ruling the destiny of Argentina. Even more, many books tell the story about Peron asking some argentinian drivers to design the circuit and of course among them was Juan Manuel Fangio.

Talking about circuits, as a nostalgic fan of motorsport, I don't like very much those new circuits in Shangai, Bahrein or Malaysia... I much prefer the old and good ones, full of history and racing heritage, just the true capital venues of our beloved sport. I just think that even after hundred of years racing in those modern and expensive motorsport architecture creations, they will never have the special atmosphere of Monza, Spa, Silverstone, Zolder, Nurburgring, etc.

And by the way, I hate the shortened versions of Nurburgring and Hockenheim, to give some examples. Maybe I could be a bit square minded to deny all those inventions in the name of " improving safety" but I would like to ask some current drivers what they really think about others deciding they can't drive in the old and more fast ones.
Does the FIA speak on terms of drivers safety, or are they just saying that new drivers are not talented enough?

Regards to all. Kein

Edited by Kein1275, 14 December 2009 - 17:26.

[sramoa]

About Hungaroring:

István Papp and Ferenc Gulácsi.They were this time engineers of Magyar Aszfaltépítő Vállalat.(Hungarian asphalt constructive company)
Started the work in October 1985,and in March of 1986 was the first race(Drapál Memorial race)

[Autocourse]

Montreal racetrack was designed by today ASN Canada FIA President, Roger Peart. Notre-Dame Island was not the first choice for the track. A track around the Olympic Stadium was! Here the story: http://www.autocours...s/montreal.html

And the one for Gilles-Villeneuve track with pictures album and race results, here: http://www.autocours...villeneuve.html

Edited by Autocourse, 15 December 2009 - 20:49.

[RA Historian]

Montreal racetrack was designed by today ASN Canada FIA President, Roger Peart. Notre-Dame Island was not the first choice for the track. A track around the Olympic Stadium was! Here the story: http://www.autocours...s/montreal.html

My word! That would have been terrible! Up and back on both sides of boulevards with a zip in and out of the stadium; it would have been awful. The use of city boulevards brings to mind the circuit at Caracas that was used in 1957; as I recall that went up and down both sides of boulevards.

So glad they used Ile Notre Dame; I have been there seven times and it is a snap getting to and from using the subway. Add to that Montreal with its restaurants, etc., and it has always been a very pleasant experience. (But I won't go into the general admission prices in 1978 compared to today; a bit different...)

Tom

[AnnieOz]

What about Bob Barnard? He designed the Adelaide GP track and was also requested to work on designs for an Asian track late in the 80s. Not sure if it was Singapore or Malaysia.

[Lee Nicolle]

What about Bob Barnard? He designed the Adelaide GP track and was also requested to work on designs for an Asian track late in the 80s. Not sure if it was Singapore or Malaysia.

Bob and his company did work on the rebirth of Philip Island. Have not heard of him for some time.
I met him once and he seemed a nice down to earth bloke.

[Geza Sury]

About Hungaroring:

István Papp and Ferenc Gulácsi.They were this time engineers of Magyar Aszfaltépítő Vállalat.(Hungarian asphalt constructive company)
Started the work in October 1985,and in March of 1986 was the first race(Drapál Memorial race)

According to Hungarian motorsport writer Sándor Dávid, the rough layout of the circuit was drawn by non other than Mr Bernard Ecclestone himself to the back of an envelope! The two Hungarian designers refined this masterpiece and designed a proper circuit. So if you think that the circuit is too slow, blame Bernie!

[Michael Ferner]

Paul Derkum designed Ascot Speedway in 1923, and Art Pillsbury did Los Angeles Speedway in Culver City one year later.

[Rosemayer]

The real designer or architect of the Autodromo de Buenos Aires seems to be vanished in the mist of time, but in many records it is said that its " intelectual author" is Juan Domingo Perón, then ruling the destiny of Argentina. Even more, many books tell the story about Peron asking some argentinian drivers to design the circuit and of course among them was Juan Manuel Fangio.

Talking about circuits, as a nostalgic fan of motorsport, I don't like very much those new circuits in Shangai, Bahrein or Malaysia... I much prefer the old and good ones, full of history and racing heritage, just the true capital venues of our beloved sport. I just think that even after hundred of years racing in those modern and expensive motorsport architecture creations, they will never have the special atmosphere of Monza, Spa, Silverstone, Zolder, Nurburgring, etc.

And by the way, I hate the shortened versions of Nurburgring and Hockenheim, to give some examples. Maybe I could be a bit square minded to deny all those inventions in the name of " improving safety" but I would like to ask some current drivers what they really think about others deciding they can't drive in the old and more fast ones.
Does the FIA speak on terms of drivers safety, or are they just saying that new drivers are not talented enough?

Regards to all. Kein

All you had to do was watch the first Practice at Sasuka this year.Put the teenagers on a proper circuit and they find all the walls at every corner.