2368 replies to this topic

[lustigson]

With today’s news that Kimi Räikkönen will sit out next season, and return to Formula One in 2011, Autosport.com’s Jonathan Noble declares the 2011 Silly Season opened via Twitter.

I made a new list with all multi-year contracts and confirmed 2010 drivers, as well as rumours for 2011 and beyond, while leaving out any unconfirmed drivers for 2010, except for the very obvious.

Red Bull Racing
Red Bull RB7 – Renault RS27 (currently) / Cosworth CA2011 (remains an option)
Team Principal: Christian Horner; Technical Director: Adrian Newey
1. Sebastian Vettel (on a multi-year deal until '11, with an option for '12)
2. Mark Webber (signed for '10 only)
Kimi Räikkönen (may do rallies in ’10 with Red Bull help)

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
McLaren MP4-26 – Mercedes FO108Y
Team Principal: Martin Whitmarsh ; Technical Director: Paddy Lowe, Neil Oatley
3. Lewis Hamilton (contracted until '12)
4. Jenson Button (if he signs for ’10, it’ll likely be on a multi-year deal)
Adrian Sutil (was mentioned a while ago, and with Räikkönen out of the equasion for ’10, he may be in the picture again)

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro (Santander title sponsor?)
Ferrari F2011 – Ferrari 056
Team Principal: Stefano Domenicali ; Technical Director: Aldo Costa
5. Felipe Massa (contracted until ‘10)
6. Fernando Alonso (3-year deal '10-'12)

Mobil 1 Mercedes Grand Prix
Mercedes W2011 – Mercedes FO108Y
Team Principal: Ross Brawn ; Technical Director: Ross Brawn (?)
7. Jenson Button (if he stays for ’10, he’ll likely be there for ’11, too)
Nick Heidfeld (if Button opts for McLaren, Heidfeld’ll probably have a multi-year deal)
8. Nico Rosberg (ever more likely due to Mercedes deal; multi-year contract)

AT&T Williams
Williams FW33 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Frank Williams ; Technical Director: Sam Michael, Patrick Head
9. Rubens Barrichello (’10-’11 deal)
10. Nico Hülkenberg (probably on long-term deal)

Renault-Gordini F1 Team (take-over by Prodrive and/or Charouz rumoured)
Renault-Gordini R31 – Renault R27
Team Principal: Bob Bell (interim); Technical Director: Bob Bell
11. Robert Kubica (confirmed for ’10 only)
12. —

Force India F1 Team
Force India VJM04 – Mercedes FO108Y
Team Principal: Vijay Mallya ; Technical Director: James Key
14. Vitantonio Liuzzi (has '10-'11 deal)
15. Adrian Sutil ('10 option taken up by the team, but free to go to bigger team, e.g. McLaren)

Sauber Petronas F1 Team (team not yet confirmed for 2010, let alone beyond)
Sauber C26 – Ferrari 056 (with Petronas badge?)
Team Principal: Lionel Fischer (of QADBAK) / Peter Sauber (unlikely) ; Technical Director: Willy Rampf
16. Nick Heidfeld (if he stayed on for ’10, he’ll be there in ’11, too)
17. —

1Malaysia Lotus F1 Team
Lotus 111 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Tony Fernandes ; Technical Director: Mike Gascoyne
18. Fairuz Fauzy (steps up to race team after a season as 3rd driver)
19. —

Scuderia Toro Rosso
Toro Roso STR6 – Ferrari 056 (Ferrari contract allegedly runs out after ‘10) / Renault R27 (an option?) / Cosworth CA2011 [/b] (remains an option)
Team Principal: Franz Tost ; Technical Director: Giorgio Ascanelli
20. Sébastien Buemi (signed for 2010)
21. —

Campos Meta Team
Campos CM11 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Adrián Campos ; Technical Director: Daniel Audetto
22. Bruno Senna (on a mult-year contract with options?)
23. —

Virgin F1 Team
Virgin VF1-11 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: John Booth (of Manor Grand Prix) / Alex Tai (of Virgin) ; Technical Director: Nick Wirth
24. Timo Glock (2-year deal with an option for a 3rd)
25. —

Best Buy [color="red"]Team US F1
Team US F1-11 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Peter Windsor ; Technical Director: Ken Anderson
26. —
27. —

[Jackmancer]

I think Bianchi (Ferrari?), Filippi (Torro Rosso) and d'Ambrosio (Manor/Campos) will make their debut in 2011.

[petri]

Oh please! Do we have any energy left after the last one.

Edited by petri, 18 November 2009 - 10:08.

[Psymon]

Oh please! Do we have any energy left after the last one.

In a way though at the moment this is a relative sea of calm compared to the 2010 silly season, with the possibility of Kimi to Red Bull being the only interesting move atm.

I take it Lustigson that this thread is also currently giving your predictions for the 2010 WCC standings?

[lustigson]

I take it Lustigson that this thread is also currently giving your predictions for the 2010 WCC standings?

As always.

I was way off regarding the 2009 WCC, by the way.

[Conny_Mary]

Maybe Vettel to MGP in 2011?

[Makarias]

I have nothing to add but just have to give credits for a very tidy opening post

[zarooch]

well as this is silly season 2011, I'd say we won't see Felipe Baby at Ferrari, maybe someone else...

the return of Kimi? No, I wouldn't like to see him make a comeback. No use really now.

Other than that, 2010 silly season was very important, as sort-of long term important deals were made.. so there won't be much changes in the bigger teams for 2011, at least.

But hey Schumi for MercGP?

[lustigson]

I have nothing to add but just have to give credits for a very tidy opening post

[lustigson]

Let's see how the 2011 grid may look, on December 31st, 2009:

Red Bull Racing
Red Bull Racing RB7 – Renault RS27 (1-year deal for Renault power; will they take Force India's supply of Mercedes')
Team Principal: Christian Horner; Technical Director: Adrian Newey
1. Sebastian Vettel (on a multi-year deal until '11, with an option for '12; Bernie Ecclestone sees him take the WDC)
2. Mark Webber (signed for '10 only)
Kimi Räikkönen (rumoured prior to his '10 WRC confirmation)

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
McLaren MP4-26 – Mercedes FO108Y
Team Principal: Martin Whitmarsh ; Technical Directors: Paddy Lowe, Neil Oatley
3. Lewis Hamilton (contracted until '12)
4. Jenson Button (on a multi-year deal, likely until '12)

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
Ferrari F2011 – Ferrari 056
Team Principal: Stefano Domenicali ; Technical Director: Aldo Costa
5. Felipe Massa (contracted until '10)
6. Fernando Alonso (3-year deal '10-'12)

Mercedes GP Petronas Formula One Team
Mercedes W2011 – Mercedes FO108Y
Team Principal: Ross Brawn ; Technical Director: Ross Brawn (?)
7. Nico Rosberg (on multi-year deal)
8. Michael Schumacher (3-year contract for '10-'12)

AT&T Williams
Williams FW33 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Frank Williams ; Technical Directors: Sam Michael, Patrick Head
9. Rubens Barrichello (confirmed; 2-year deal?)
10. Nico Hülkenberg (confirmed, probably on long-term deal)

Sauber F1 Team
Sauber C30 – Ferrari 056 (Ferrari deal for several seasons?)
Team Principal: Peter Sauber (new (old) owner) ; Technical Director: Willy Rampf
11. Kamui Kobayashi (likely on multi-year deal)
12. —

Renault F1 Team
Renault R31 – Renault R27
Team Principal: Bob Bell; Technical Director: James Allison
14. Robert Kubica (had 1-year Renault deal; hot prospect for top teams: Ferrari?)
15. —

1Malaysia Lotus F1 Racing
Lotus 126 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Tony Fernandes ; Technical Director: Mike Gascoyne
16. Jarno Trulli (signed for '10, may stay on)
17. Heikki Kovalainen (signed for '10, may stay on)
Fairuz Fauzy (test driver in '10)

Force India F1 Team
Force India VJM04 – Mercedes FO108Y (McLaren-Mercedes deal was for '08-'10)
Team Principal: Vijay Mallya ; Technical Director: James Key
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi (has '10-'11 deal)
19. Adrian Sutil ('10 option taken up by the team)

Scuderia Toro Rosso
STR 6 – Ferrari 056 (Ferrari deal allegedly runs out after '10)
Team Principal: Franz Tost ; Technical Director: Giorgio Ascanelli
20. Sébastien Buemi (off to bigger pastures after 2 seasons?)
Brendon Hartley (Red Bull junior driver)
21. Jaime Alguersuari (ready to lead the team?)
Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull junior driver)

Campos Meta 1
Campos Dallara CM11 – Campos Dallara CA2011 (constructor name not entirely clear)
Team Principal: Adrián Campos ; Technical Director: Daniel Audetto
22. Bruno Senna (on multi-year deal?)
23. —

Virgin Racing
Virgin VR-02 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Alex Tai ; Technical Director: Nick Wirth
24. Timo Glock (2-year deal with an option for a 3rd)
25. Lucas Di Grassi (likely on multi-year deal)

US F1 Team
US F1 2010 – Cosworth CA2010
Team Principal: Peter Windsor ; Technical Director: Ken Anderson
26. —
27. —

Stefan GP (said to want a slot for 2011, if they don't succeed for 2010)
Stefan ZS11 – Renault RS27 (could take Red Bull's engine supply)
Team Principal: Zoran Stefanovic ; Technical Director: Mike Coughlan
28. —
29. —

[Anssi]

Well, the return of Kimi and with Red Bull would certainly get a thumbs up from me.

In fact I remember I was hoping back in 2006 that his new team, if he leaves McLaren, would be Red Bull. Because I thought it would be a perfect match image-wise and I thought Red Bull would become a stronger team (we knew Adrian Newey joined them and this got me thinking they are actually a serious team with serious backing if they can get Newey to join).

I was left with a bit of a confused feeling about the switch to Ferrari at the time. Wasn't really keen on it, but of course I was happy it ended up in Kimi winning the WDC. In the end perhaps my doubts about Ferrari were proved to be correct as the team has really screwed up with how they've handled Kimi.

I don't know if Kimi would have won the WDC with Red Bull had he joined them after 2006 but I have no doubt that team would not have screwed him the way Ferrari has done


The Kimi and Red Bull combo gets a and I wish Kimi and Red Bull good success together, both in the WRC and in F1! I think if Red Bull wants to utilise Kimi's huge marketing value, they should use him also in F1. WRC gets so much less exposure that it would in fact be commercially stupid from Red Bull not to employ Kimi in their F1 team as a race driver. I know Kimi and Red Bull have said they don't know about 2011, but I remain optimistic of seeing Kimi in the Red Bull F1 car in 2011, because, as I said, it sounds stupid they would not do it because of the marketing potential and the WRC getting much much less exposure.

It would leave me a bit sad if Mark Webber loses a competitive car, then. I am a fan of his too and I hope both of these guys will get to compete against each other in competitive machinery in F1 in 2011 and onwards.

Of course it depends a lot on what Kimi wants to do, but somehow I got an impression during the 2009 season that he really is not done with F1 yet. I think he said enough times he wants to win more and I don't think he was kidding when he said that. Of course that may change during a year out of F1, but let's consider this. If he wants to make a comeback to F1 in 2011, it really should not be many months when he should already sign a contract. So he in fact doesn't have much time to think about it if he wants to return for 2011. I would give him until mid-2010 to decide at the latest.

Edited by Anssi, 31 December 2009 - 15:06.

[rmac923]

Hopefully I remember my original predictions are on page 1. But here we go.

Red Bull Racing:
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Kimi Raikkonen

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro:
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Felipe Massa

Vodafone McLaren:
5. Lewis Hamilton
6. Jenson Button

Petronas Mercedes:
7. Michael Schumacher
8. Nico Rosberg

AT&T Williams:
9. Nico Hulkenberg
10. Bruno Senna

Sauber F1 Team:
11. Kamui Kobayashi
12. Adrian Sutil

Renault F1 Team:
14. Robert Kubica
15. Jérôme d'Ambrosio

Force India F1 Team:
16. Paul di Resta
17. Vitaly Petrov

Scuderia Toro Rosso:
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Brandon Hartley

Lotus Racing:
20. Heikki Kovalainen
21. Jarno Trulli

Virgin Racing:
22. Timo Glock
23. Lucas di Grassi

NEW TEAMS: (Total Guesses BTW)

Epsilon Euskadi:
24. Nick Heidfeld
25. Alvaro Parente

Stefan GP:
26. Kazuke Nakajima
27. Jules Bianchi

Webber, Barichello and De La Rosa retire.

Honestly, I'll probably be very wrong, but hey, 2010 hasn't started yet!!!

[noikeee]

Lol, HRT are launching their car right now and you're already expecting they'll disappear?

[Kooper]

- new team for 2011 -

Colgate/Oral B Team US F1
Team US F1-11 – Cosworth CA2011
Team Principal: Peter Windsor ; Technical Director: Ken Anderson
26. Jack Miller
27. Colin Colles

[bonneville]

My predictions

Red Bull Cosworth >> Webber retires
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Kimi Raikkonen

Mercedes >> Rosberg to McLaren
3. Michael Schumacher
4. Adrian Sutil

Ferrari
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Felipe Massa

McLaren Mercedes >> Button retires
7. Lewis Hamilton
8. Nico Rosberg

Williams Cosworth >> Rubinho retires
9. Nico Hulkenberg
10. Jérôme d'Ambrosio ®

Force India Mercedes >> Liuzzi out, Sutil to Mercedes
11. Karun Chandhock
12. Paul di Resta ®

STR Cosworth >> Alguersari to HRT
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Brandon Hartley ®

Sauber Ferrari >> De La Rosa retires
11. Kamui Kobayashi
12. Jules Bianchi ®

Renault >> Petrov out
14. Robert Kubica
15. Bertrand Baguette ®

Lotus Cosworth
20. Heikki Kovalainen
21. Jarno Trulli

Virgin-Cosworth
22. Timo Glock
23. Lucas di Grassi

HRT Cosworth >> Senna out
24. Jaime Alguersari
25. Andy Soucek ®

Aston Martin >> Prodrive/Aston gets the slot over Stefan and others, USF1 doesn't apply
26. Daniel Ricciardo ®
27. Jacques Villeneuve

[robracer]

My predictions....

Button retires....

McLaren-Mercedes
1 Lewis Hamilton
2 Jenson Button

Ferrari
3 Fernando Alonso
4 Felipe Massa

Red Bull-Cosworth
5 Sebastian Vettel
6 Sebastien Buemi

Mercedes
7 Michael Schumacher
8 Nico Rosberg

Sauber-Ferrari
9 Kamui Kobayashi
10 Jules Bianchi

Renault(name changed)-Cosworth
11 Robert Kubica
12 Vitaly Petrov

Force India-Mercedes
14 Vitantonio Liuzzi
15 Paul di Resta

Williams-Cosworth
16 Nico Hulkenberg
17 Adrian Sutil

STR-Ferrari
18 Jaime Alguersuari
19 Brendon Hartley

Lotus-Cosworth
20 Heikki Kovalainen
21 Jarno Trulli

Virgin-Cosworth
22 Timo Glock
23 Lucas di Grassi

HRT-Cosworth
24 Bruno Senna
25 Andy Soucek

Out: Webber (retirement), de la Rosa (retirement), Barrichello (retirement), Chandhok (force india reserve)

[rmac923]

Lol, HRT are launching their car right now and you're already expecting they'll disappear?

By the end of 2010? Yes.

I think they're gonna be worse than Virgin or Lotus.

[kismet]

2011? Everyone even remotely competitive will retain their 2010 driver lineups leading to the most boring silly season ever. In fact, it'll be so eventless that we may actually need to drop that 'silly'.

[KateLM]

2011? Everyone even remotely competitive will retain their 2010 driver lineups leading to the most boring silly season ever. In fact, it'll be so eventless that we may actually need to drop that 'silly'.

I doubt it could be even more eventless than the 2009 silly season. But I think it will be quite some time before 2010 is topped!

[gerry nassar]

2011? Everyone even remotely competitive will retain their 2010 driver lineups leading to the most boring silly season ever. In fact, it'll be so eventless that we may actually need to drop that 'silly'.

It really depends what happens in 2010 hey. Civil war at Ferrari? MS loses to Rosberg? Button embarrassed by Lewis, a certain Rally driver coming back.... we just dont know. But on paper yes I think it will be less eventful too.

[TheF1PERSON]

Well, the first point of discussion for the 2011 silly season is the Webber-Raikkonnen rumours.

[shunt]

I really don't think Kimi is coming back. Much like I never expected Mika to come back to F1. Where the hell did these Kimi-Redbull rumours come from anyway?

[Redstorm]

I really don't think Kimi is coming back. Much like I never expected Mika to come back to F1. Where the hell did these Kimi-Redbull rumours come from anyway?

From Horner and DM not flat out denying that they would bring Kimi in. All the wishy washy talk same as the Alonso move.......

[Rob]

I would put money on Heidfeld being a race driver for Mercedes in 2011.

Either Rosberg gets beaten by Schumacher and Keke tries to extricate his son from the contract, or Schumacher gets beaten by Rosberg, realises the comeback was a mistake and re-retires.

[Homerbhoy]

Will USF1, Stefan GP or anyone else be able to get in next year since it doesnt seem to be happening this year.

Id like Prodrive to be in but i do hope someone else joins

[Captain Tightpants]

Ack, I'm still recovering from the 2010 silly season! No way am I getting involved in the 2011 edition any time soon ...

Oh, and Homerbhoy? The FIA is apparently going to unveil a new entry bid procedure in the near future.

[rmac923]

Will USF1, Stefan GP or anyone else be able to get in next year since it doesnt seem to be happening this year.

Id like Prodrive to be in but i do hope someone else joins

I can't see Prodrive at this point, Dave Richards calling F1 "irrelevant" is probably a good hint, unless he's a sore loser.

I think Epsilon Euskadi and either Stefan or Lola.

[Captain Tightpants]

I can't see Prodrive at this point, Dave Richards calling F1 "irrelevant" is probably a good hint, unless he's a sore loser.

I think he is, at least a little. He said it just after Renault turned down his offer, so it's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

And I wouldn't count on Lola, Stefan and Epsilon being the only teams to submit entry bids. Sports car entrant Ray Mallock Ltd. were really quite keen on it but didn't submit an entry because of the politics, for one. And then there was March, and Brabham and Team Superfund and myf1dream ...

[CWeil]

I think he is, at least a little. He said it just after Renault turned down his offer, so it's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

And I wouldn't count on Lola, Stefan and Epsilon being the only teams to submit entry bids. Sports car entrant Ray Mallock Ltd. were really quite keen on it but didn't submit an entry because of the politics, for one. And then there was March, and Brabham and Team Superfund and myf1dream ...

Except that Lola and Epsilon are the only two listed above with the necessary facilities (and experience) to build F1 cars. RML is a pretty good touring car builder, but that's a totally different game.

But that didn't stop them before, so it's anybody's guess.

Edited by CWeil, 08 March 2010 - 08:17.

[Turbo4]

Well, the first point of discussion for the 2011 silly season is the Webber-Raikkonnen rumours.

The only rumours are the ones being started by Kimi fans and the trashier media publications. Horner's stated if Mark does the same job he did in 2009 he'll be retained, Mateschitz has stated he's happy with the current lineup, and Kimi's not expressed a great deal of interest either.

Storm in a teacup that keeps getting stirred on here by the anti-Webber-in-a-top-car brigade.

[FigJam]

I'd put my house on it that Raikkonen is already earmarked to replace Webber for 2011.

I actually think the only thing it hinges on now is whether Raikkonen really wants to return to F1. I doubt he has completely decided yet....if the opportunity presented itself Red Bull would be absolutely stupid not to hire him.

In that team (different environment) with a good car, Raikkonen would thrive.

[Captain Tightpants]

I'd put my house on it that Raikkonen is already earmarked to replace Webber for 2011.

Why, because Red Bull bosses have said there are no plans for it?

[V8 Fireworks]

Oh please! Do we have any energy left after the last one.;)

Let's see:

Vettel '11 expiry... Massa '10 expiry... Ferrari will sign Vettel to pre-contract and depending on a whim may completely buy out Vettel and pay out Massa to get SebVet in early.

Barrichello may or may not retire.

Webber will get renewed for three seasons carring his #1 on the Red Bull team he won it with.

Beumi to RBR.

Bianchi to Sauber joining Kobayashi, at Ferrari's insistance.

Random pay drivers for HRT, while Lotus and Virgin should keep the same line-ups.. all going as well as would be assumed at those teams.

Heidfeld will join Force India replacing Liuzzi. Liuzzi (who has impressed with three podiums in the Force India) becomes a Williams driver.


All sorted for you.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 08 March 2010 - 22:00.

[V8 Fireworks]

I'd put my house on it that Raikkonen is already earmarked to replace Webber for 2011.

I actually think the only thing it hinges on now is whether Raikkonen really wants to return to F1. I doubt he has completely decided yet....if the opportunity presented itself Red Bull would be absolutely stupid not to hire him.

In that team (different environment) with a good car, Raikkonen would thrive.

[Phucaigh]

Both Lotus drivers were given three year contracts.

[Anssi]

Whatever happens at Red Bull I hope Mark Webber continues as a race driver in F1 in 2011.

I do hope Kimi would come back to F1 but I would not like to see Mark being pushed out of the sport because of him. Mixed feelings...

Back in 2006 I was thinking Kimi and Red Bull would be a great match, especially after having seen Adrian Newey join the team. Then he went to Ferrari and I didn't know what to think of that. Then he won the WDC with Ferrari and that justified the move. And I guess I can say that my doubts about the team were proved to be warranted given how their relationship progressed and especially how it ended.

Maybe Red Bull will have him in the F1 team maybe not. One thing is for sure Mark Webber is one of my favourites for the F1 title in 2010. Another one is Rubens Barrichello. I think Mark has better chances to win it compared to Rubens but I would be super-happy for Rubens too if he wins it!

Yeah... I guess my point is I am a bit torn as I'd like Mark to succeed and stay in F1 for many years still but I would be happy to see Kimi come back to F1 and preferably at Red Bull which is the team I was hoping he would go to back in 2006. A positive thing in this is it seems chances are high I will have one of my favourite drivers at Red Bull no matter how this turns out with Mark and Kimi.

Is it outright crazy to think they could be team-mates? Mark, what do you say? Would that be The Thing that would get you really excited?

Edited by Anssi, 08 March 2010 - 23:47.

[FigJam]

Why, because Red Bull bosses have said there are no plans for it?

Did they dismiss the chance of recruiting Kimi 110%?

Exactly...didn't think so.

Edited by FIGJAM, 09 March 2010 - 03:15.

[Captain Tightpants]

Exactly...didn't think so.

So because they didn't do something, they're going to do exactly the opposite next year?

Hey guys, the Academy didn't award me the Oscar for Best Screenplay last night. I guess that means I'll be winning it next year.

[FigJam]

So because they didn't do something, they're going to do exactly the opposite next year?

Hey guys, the Academy didn't award me the Oscar for Best Screenplay last night. I guess that means I'll be winning it next year.

Face it for what it is, if they had absolutely no intention of it, they would have said so.

Instead DM felt the need to mention that IF Mark Webber puts in top performances, then they won't feel the need for change.

This is knowing fully well that Raikkonen is not even driving in F1 atm. For me, that's a clear indication that Kimi has been an option ever since he left Ferrari.

Nothing will change between now and then....except for Webbers rep. One way or another.

Reb Bull are in the perfect position as the ball is in their court. Why rush? Let it play out and if Webber flops, they have a super quick ex World Champion ready to join.

[Captain Tightpants]

Face it for what it is, if they had absolutely no intention of it, they would have said so.

But just because they didn't say so doesn't mean Raikkonen is being set up for a drive.

[Turbo4]

^ and if Webber stars, they have a randomly-motivated ex World Champion who can just sod off.

OF COURSE they're not going to deny 100% Kimi's going to be driving for them next year - any good off-contract driver isn't going be completely dismissed ... it would be illogical to do so. I doubt they'd comprehensively deny Heidfeld has a shot with them too.

The Kimi fanboys will keep pumping the tyres of this 'story' until one of two things happen: either Kimi does indeed sign for Red Bull Racing, or Mark's performances are so top-shelf that it becomes obvious his seat is safe.

[FigJam]

But just because they didn't say so doesn't mean Raikkonen is being set up for a drive.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

The door was left ajar. That's enough to know its a serious consideration.

[Captain Tightpants]

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

The door was left ajar. That's enough to know its a serious consideration.

Using that logic, Sebstien Buemi, Jaie Alguersuari, Brendon Hartley and Daniel Ricciardo are all much more likely than Kimi Raikkonen because they're all in the Red Bull Young Driver Programme and therefore the door has not simply been left ajar, but wide open.

[FigJam]

Except that Raikkonen has been directly referred to.

Surely even you find it somewhat too convenient. Kimi takes off to WRC with Red Bull backing for 1 year...will decide what to do for 2011 at a later date.

Wake up and smell the roses.

[Captain Tightpants]

Kimi takes off to WRC with Red Bull backing for 1 year...will decide what to do for 2011 at a later date.

And that would actually be significant if they backed Raikkonen exclusively instead of Citroen's entire WRC campaign.

[Turbo4]

Except that Raikkonen has been directly referred to.

Because they were asked SPECIFICALLY about Raikkonen!

If they were asked specifically about Buemi's chances of a 2011 RBR drive, they'd SPECIFICALLY mention Buemi in their answer! Capiche?

geez...

[FigJam]

And that would actually be significant if they backed Raikkonen exclusively instead of Citroen's entire WRC campaign.

Now were getting somewhere.

So the team is back by Red Bull. Raikkonen joins them (Citroen) for 1 year with personal Red Bull backing and clearly has the option to choose what he does in 2011. Red Bull decides for 2010 to extend backing to the junior team....Raikkonen is thankful to Red Bull for the opportunity

http://www.rallybuzz...irmed-wrc-2010/

You still in denial?

[FigJam]

Because they were asked SPECIFICALLY about Raikkonen!

If they were asked specifically about Buemi's chances of a 2011 RBR drive, they'd SPECIFICALLY mention Buemi in their answer! Capiche?

geez...

delusional much?

[Captain Tightpants]

Now were getting somewhere.

Yes: somewhere in my direction. This is why:

So the team is back by Red Bull. Raikkonen joins them (Citroen) for 1 year with personal Red Bull backing and clearly has the option to choose what he does in 2011. Red Bull decides for 2010 to extend backing to the junior team....Raikkonen is thankful to Red Bull for the opportunity

http://www.rallybuzz...irmed-wrc-2010/

You still in denial?

Red Bull is only sponsoring Raikkonen's WRC efforts because he's driving for Citroen, who they were already sponsoring. Can you prove, conclusively, that Red Bull would not have backed the Citroens if Raikkonen went somewhere like Munchi's or Stobart? If he did, I doubt they'd follow him there. Citroen would have something to say about it if Red Bull wanted to sponsor two teams running cars from two different manufacturers. And why would they give up sponsorship of the ridiculously-successful Citroen team and Sebastian Loeb simply to get Raikkonen in a Red Bull Racing car for 2011 when Raikkonen is unsure if he'll even return to Formula 1?

delusional much?

I'm thinking it's you who is delusional. Turbo raises a hell of a good point: Red Bull were specifically asked to comment on the Raikkonen rumours. Ergo, their response was specifically about Raikkonen. It's proof of nothing. When was the last time a driver who was rumoured to be joining a team a year in advance actually did join? Fernando Alonso is not proof of your speculation because he had a pre-contract with Ferrari at the time, one that probably said he had to be the first driver Ferrari considered if and when an availablity came up before that pre-contract expired. We already know Raikkonen doesn't have that because Toro Rosso was created specifically for the purposes of cherry-picking drivers for the main team. Since that program is still going, it's obvious that Red Bull haven't extended Raikkonen a pre-contract because to do so would be to teminate the Young Driver Programme.

[FigJam]

Yes: somewhere in my direction. This is why:

Red Bull is only sponsoring Raikkonen's WRC efforts because he's driving for Citroen, who they were already sponsoring.

Not the junior team they weren't.

They have since Raikkonen joined.

As for the hoo-haa your going on about regarding Red Bull's young driver program, don't be so simplistic. If they wanted a pre-contract with Raikkonen, they would have one. They might have one....the young driver program is irrelevant. It's Red Bull's programs, I'm sure they can break the rules to accomodate a World Champion if they wanted that.

Edited by FIGJAM, 09 March 2010 - 06:29.