1924 replies to this topic

[Liuggi]

I admit to being sad about KIMI situation, but consider these facts:

Kimi beat Alonso in 2005 IMO, only unreliability held him back.
Kimi also won 2003 WDC when factor in Nurburgring failure.
Kimi 2007 WDC beats Alonso in inferior car to McLaren.
So by my calculations that's 3-1 championships for KIMI vs Alonso.
2008/2009 Alonso did nothing much to help move Renault forwards. Of two wins one was won through Piquet crashing on purpose.
I also think KIMI is better commercially. He wears cool sunglasses, watches and a hip-hop cap. He looks better than Alonso in that pullover he was wearing the other day and some Ray Bans (out of fashion). Ok so that's not the most important thing, but it still helps to have the right image. Alonso's has never been as good as KIMI's and since 2007 it's got worse.

I'm not wanting to attack Alonso but I do think KIMI is better driver, better image and more loved by fans. Remember he was International Racing Driver of the Year 2005 as voted by F1 Racing readers poll. What do you think? I respect all opinions.

[Colombo]

Ferrari was absolutely right.
Your calculations are not only dead wrong but sheer nonsense.

GC

[Clatter]

No idea whether it will prove to be the right move or not, but one thing I'm positive of is that rest of your post is absolute nonsense.

[Szoelloe]

they were right.

[fed up]

they were right.

+1

[Liuggi]

where is nonsense? go watch nurburgring 2003 and review video of whole of 2005, then come back and tell me KIMI wasn't robbed
alonso is good but what did he achieve at Renault when the car wasn't dominant? not a great deal.

[Liuggi]

also KIMI doesn't care if team focuses on Massa or whatever, he does his own thing. Alonso has reputation for throwing toys out the pram

[GIBF1]

Like him or hate him, F1 needs Fernando in a top car fighting for wins and the championship

Good decision from Ferrari IMO

[kismet]

I assume this is a piss-taking thread? There really is no need for that, you know. Kimi's gone and he's not coming back - no need to twist the knife.

And no, no one would pick KR over FA.

[karina_k]

I admit to being sad about KIMI situation, but consider these facts:etc etc etc

WTH?Let it go already.

[GIBF1]

WTH?Let it go already.

It's sad to see a great racer like Kimi leave but with emerging talents like Vettel, Hulkenberg (if he can step up) and Kobayashi (if he can get a seat), Kimi will be forgotten pretty quickly

[Clatter]

where is nonsense? go watch nurburgring 2003 and review video of whole of 2005, then come back and tell me KIMI wasn't robbed
alonso is good but what did he achieve at Renault when the car wasn't dominant? not a great deal.

As soon as you start to talk about "what if's" and declare someone to be the champion based on that, it becomes total and utter nonsense.

[maccaFTW]

I hate to say it as a Kimi fan, but it was the right thing to do for Ferrari.

If you have questions about someone's motivation, no matter how talented they are, you can't pay them the money Kimi was making. It's clear from a number of sources that Kimi was very hot and cold in terms of his inspiration. When a driver in his class like Alonso is available and unquestionably motivated, you've got to make the switch.

Do I think Alonso is better than Kimi? No; I'd rate them equally on talent. But Alonso is the better bet given his very apparent advantage in dedication.

The risk that Ferrari runs is that they could have an Alonso-Massa turf war on their hands, which would be extremely counterproductive. Raikkonen and Massa formed a harmonious driver pairing.

[Snap Matt]

I also think KIMI is better commercially. He wears cool sunglasses, watches and a hip-hop cap. He looks better than Alonso in that pullover he was wearing the other day and some Ray Bans (out of fashion). Ok so that's not the most important thing, but it still helps to have the right image. Alonso's has never been as good as KIMI's and since 2007 it's got worse.

This is the team that was built around Michael Schumacher for over ten years. Driver image isn't a huge factor there!

[Zero4]

I admit to being sad about KIMI situation, but consider these facts:

Kimi beat Alonso in 2005 IMO, only unreliability held him back.
Kimi also won 2003 WDC when factor in Nurburgring failure.
Kimi 2007 WDC beats Alonso in inferior car to McLaren.
So by my calculations that's 3-1 championships for KIMI vs Alonso.
2008/2009 Alonso did nothing much to help move Renault forwards. Of two wins one was won through Piquet crashing on purpose.
I also think KIMI is better commercially. He wears cool sunglasses, watches and a hip-hop cap. He looks better than Alonso in that pullover he was wearing the other day and some Ray Bans (out of fashion). Ok so that's not the most important thing, but it still helps to have the right image. Alonso's has never been as good as KIMI's and since 2007 it's got worse.

I'm not wanting to attack Alonso but I do think KIMI is better driver, better image and more loved by fans. Remember he was International Racing Driver of the Year 2005 as voted by F1 Racing readers poll. What do you think? I respect all opinions.

Kim spent 8 seasons, basically his entire career in the two biggest and most successful teams in the history of the sport, and a number of years with the greatest designer in the history of the sport, competed in more races than Alonso yet finished with less wins and less World Championships. Says it all really.

[One]

Only if you asked if Ferrari were right to retain Massa,...

[RedBaron]

Did I just read Raikkonen is a better driver than Alonso because he's more hip hop?

Edit: Sorry to pander to this nonsense fashion discussion, but those Ray Bans Alonso wears are completely in fashion, to correct you misguided fashion senses that claim them to be out.

Fashion is meaningless, the greatest driver in Formula 1 history made me vomit on sight on numerous occasions due to what he wore.

Edited by RedBaron, 18 November 2009 - 13:29.

[MichaelPM]

Did I just read Raikkonen is a better driver than Alonso because he's more hip hop?

[Lennat]

As soon as you start to talk about "what if's" and declare someone to be the champion based on that, it becomes total and utter nonsense.

+1000

And yes, I think Ferrari were right to replace Kimi With Alonso. I DO like Kimi, and am truly sad to see him eave F1, but to me it seems pretty obvious that he wasn't a perfect fit at Ferrari. I'm not gonna take away the fact that he did win a title while Massa did not, but overall one can not deny that they've been pretty much equal overall during their 2 ½ seasons together. Kimi was expected to emerge as the obvious number one based on merit, and he did not. Felipe is a very good driver, and I've been impressed with his speed and driving over the last couple of seasons, but the way Schumi outclassed him still showed to me that he is rather a very good driver than an absolute top driver, and therefore the same applies to Kimi as he's been pretty much equal to him.

I hope and believe that Alonso can move the team forward in a more Schumi-esque way, as Ferrari probably works better with a strong leader after all the years with Schumi.

Still sad though that Kimi wont be driving next year, and I would have liked to see him in a Mercedes next year, as it seems pretty weird to start an all works effort without a proven championship contender.Even though I don't rank him as highly as Hamilton or Alonso he's still better than Heidfeld or Rosberg in my opinion.

[Lennat]

Fashion is meaningless, the greatest driver in Formula 1 history made me vomit on sight on numerous occasions due to what he wore.

[One]

I was thinking n a line that Mclaren gets two WDC in the two cars and Ferrari gets other two WDC in the car, while Mercedes have two young talented media star driver who are yet to win a race.






Brawn has a great team organizer.

Fashion is meaningless, the greatest driver in Formula 1 history made me vomit on sight on numerous occasions due to what he wore.

Woops I almost missed this one! Look back Michael!

Edited by One, 18 November 2009 - 13:41.

[ArDeeEmm]

Alonso and Kimi are possibly the 2 finest F1 drivers.

I am not sure that replacing one with the other will make much difference. Given a half-decent car, wither of them can win the WDC. Give them a crap car, like 2009's Ferrari, and either driver would struggle.

Having Alonso in your team instead of another team is good though, and having Kimi in no team instead another team is also good.

[Jackmancer]

Kimi's salary demands have shown he wasn't motivated enought.

[Bishy]

Can we have an option for "not sure?"

Personally I can't choose either way, I rate both Kimi and Fred equally so it's a question i'm struggling to answer!

[One]

Can we have an option for "not sure?"

Personally I can't choose either way, I rate both Kimi and Fred equally so it's a question i'm struggling to answer!

Don't worry then we know you love Button and Lewis this year.

[kosmos]

We can't say if they are wrong or right till we see Alonso perfomance with Ferrari. But at lest the hired a motivated guy willing to do so serious work with the team and the car.

[One]

I still fancy Ferrari getting rid of Massa, send him to Sauber, replacing Massa with Kimi before the 2010 season starts.

[UPRC]

Too soon to tell.

[Buttoneer]

Even if Alonso is slower than Kimi it was the right decision because I think Alonso has the right work ethic for the team. Whether a driver is right for a team is much more than just 'is he quick', as I believe 2007 demonstrates.

[Alexis*27]

I admit to being sad about KIMI situation, but consider these facts:

Kimi beat Alonso in 2005 IMO, only unreliability held him back.

Yes, drivers are often hired on their performances 4 years ago.

Kimi also won 2003 WDC when factor in Nurburgring failure.

..and 5 years ago. With theoretical circumstances majorly factored in.

Kimi 2007 WDC beats Alonso in inferior car to McLaren.

Alonso won 2 WRCs. So what?

So by my calculations that's 3-1 championships for KIMI vs Alonso.

But your calculations are clearly bollocs.

2008/2009 Alonso did nothing much to help move Renault forwards. Of two wins one was won through Piquet crashing on purpose.

Yes, one man is directly responsible for every aspect of the car he's driving. If only Nakajima knew how to build an engine - then Williams could have been winning every race. Geez.

I also think KIMI is better commercially. He wears cool sunglasses, watches and a hip-hop cap.

If I wear sunglasses, watches, a hip-hop cap AND a diamond encrusted belt does that mean I'm even cooler? Somebody call Ferrari - I'm available!

He looks better than Alonso in that pullover he was wearing the other day and some Ray Bans (out of fashion). Ok so that's not the most important thing, but it still helps to have the right image. Alonso's has never been as good as KIMI's and since 2007 it's got worse.

I think you've lost the plot now. Are you 13 by any chance?

Edited by Alexis*27, 18 November 2009 - 13:57.

[Jackmancer]

Can we have an option for "not sure?"

Personally I can't choose either way, I rate both Kimi and Fred equally so it's a question i'm struggling to answer!

Blimey! It's Ferrari! We need "For sure" as an option!

[Simon Says]

I admit to being sad about KIMI situation, but consider these facts:

Kimi beat Alonso in 2005 IMO, only unreliability held him back.
Kimi also won 2003 WDC when factor in Nurburgring failure.
Kimi 2007 WDC beats Alonso in inferior car to McLaren.
So by my calculations that's 3-1 championships for KIMI vs Alonso.
2008/2009 Alonso did nothing much to help move Renault forwards. Of two wins one was won through Piquet crashing on purpose.
I also think KIMI is better commercially. He wears cool sunglasses, watches and a hip-hop cap. He looks better than Alonso in that pullover he was wearing the other day and some Ray Bans (out of fashion). Ok so that's not the most important thing, but it still helps to have the right image. Alonso's has never been as good as KIMI's and since 2007 it's got worse.

I'm not wanting to attack Alonso but I do think KIMI is better driver, better image and more loved by fans. Remember he was International Racing Driver of the Year 2005 as voted by F1 Racing readers poll. What do you think? I respect all opinions.

No, because Kimi does not have Santander. Ferrari has got so much money now with Santander that they are able to afford Fisi + Alonso + Kimi + Massa. They are paying for 4 drivers next year ( only 2 happen to be racing while Kimi gets to sit home all day doing nothing )

Edited by Simon Says, 18 November 2009 - 14:15.

[Buttoneer]

Blimey! It's Ferrari! We need "For sure" as an option!

Though I think Jenson took the 'for sure' crown this year didn't he?

[Enkei]

Time will tell. If Ferrari 2010 is anything like McLaren 2007, they'd better kept Kimi around. The writing's on the wall though.

[acelik]

people who think kimi's WDCs were robbed should go to the police then

If we think about ifs, then we can change both 2007 and 2008 seasons WDCs

Ferrari did the right thing IMO. great job.

[Nobody]

On paper, Ferrari-Alonso is a match made in heaven.

But that's what we said about McLaren-Raikkonen, and McLaren-Alonso, and Ferrari-Raikkonen

Time will only tell

[DePortago]

I admit to being sad about KIMI situation, but consider these facts:

Kimi beat Alonso in 2005 IMO, only unreliability held him back.
Kimi also won 2003 WDC when factor in Nurburgring failure.
Kimi 2007 WDC beats Alonso in inferior car to McLaren.
So by my calculations that's 3-1 championships for KIMI vs Alonso. 2008/2009 Alonso did nothing much to help move Renault forwards. Of two wins one was won through Piquet crashing on purpose.
I also think KIMI is better commercially. He wears cool sunglasses, watches and a hip-hop cap. He looks better than Alonso in that pullover he was wearing the other day and some Ray Bans (out of fashion). Ok so that's not the most important thing, but it still helps to have the right image. Alonso's has never been as good as KIMI's and since 2007 it's got worse.

I'm not wanting to attack Alonso but I do think KIMI is better driver, better image and more loved by fans. Remember he was International Racing Driver of the Year 2005 as voted by F1 Racing readers poll. What do you think? I respect all opinions.

Your calculations are nothing but ridiculous, but if you´re happy, keep going.

[Bishy]

Blimey! It's Ferrari! We need "For sure" as an option!

[BMW_F1]

They were right.. He was overhyped and overpaid.. Ferrari realized that when he could not beat Massa. They are going to try Alonso now. Let's see.

Edited by BMW_F1, 18 November 2009 - 14:50.

[DePortago]

No, because Kimi does not have Santander. Ferrari has got so much money now with Santander that they are able to afford Fisi + Alonso + Kimi + Massa. They are paying for 4 drivers next year ( only 2 happen to be racing while Kimi gets to sit home all day doing nothing )

You forgot to mention Hamilton. Santander is still paying for him (and now also for Button).

[steph90]

They were right. Kimi can be a bit more spectacular/quicker than Alonso but Alonso always delivers. Kimi's frustrating as hell to watch at times

[robracer]

Right move by Ferrari. Alonso is much better than the overpaid and overrated Raikkonen.
Alonso is proberly the best driver around at the moment and he should make Ferrari title contenders over the next few years.

[Seanspeed]

Well..........right. Obviously. He's a better driver and a proven leader.

I may like Kimi and his approach and all, but in a team like Ferrari, it just wont cut it. Not unless he was dominantly fast, which he wasn't.

I think Alonso is just what Ferrari needs.

[GiancarloF1]

I admit to being sad about KIMI situation, but consider these facts:

Kimi beat Alonso in 2005 IMO, only unreliability held him back.
Kimi also won 2003 WDC when factor in Nurburgring failure.
Kimi 2007 WDC beats Alonso in inferior car to McLaren.
So by my calculations that's 3-1 championships for KIMI vs Alonso.
2008/2009 Alonso did nothing much to help move Renault forwards. Of two wins one was won through Piquet crashing on purpose.
I also think KIMI is better commercially. He wears cool sunglasses, watches and a hip-hop cap. He looks better than Alonso in that pullover he was wearing the other day and some Ray Bans (out of fashion). Ok so that's not the most important thing, but it still helps to have the right image. Alonso's has never been as good as KIMI's and since 2007 it's got worse.

I'm not wanting to attack Alonso but I do think KIMI is better driver, better image and more loved by fans. Remember he was International Racing Driver of the Year 2005 as voted by F1 Racing readers poll. What do you think? I respect all opinions.

Is the word KIMI an acronym? Because you always write in capitals.

[klover]

They were right. Kimi can be a bit more spectacular/quicker than Alonso but Alonso always delivers. Kimi's frustrating as hell to watch at times

Yes, Alonso did deliver in 2007, 2008, and 2009. Let's see - a third in the WDC. Kimi delivered a WDC, and a third in those years. Interesting choice of the word "always"

[undersquare]

I'll always think Ferrari wasted what they had in Kimi.

Fernando will make sure things are how he needs them to be, starting apparently with an MS-free zone. It's a crucial difference.

[Mia 01]

I'll always think Ferrari wasted what they had in Kimi.

Fernando will make sure things are how he needs them to be, starting apparently with an MS-free zone. It's a crucial difference.

Agreed.

But, things will be interesting in the team next year, for moore than one reason.

[Atreiu]

I see the logic behind signing Alonso, but I have always viewed Kimi as more talented and I'd rather have him if I could chose. Hindsight will tell us who was really right, Alonso hasn't turned a wheel so far and it's way too early to pass judgement.

[ch103]

I voted no.

I would have rather had Kimi & Alonso instead.

[Hole]

As much as Kimi is (currently "was"), Alonso is by far a better pick IMO.

He has accepted crappy seats even knowing his car would not be competitive, that's a nice thing for himself and his fans; he was never that over-paid nor requested insane amounts of money. He is quite nice to the fans and will attend all kind of sponsor events without any problem (specially of UNICEF). And above all, he's quick, and constant.

Right now it looks like Kimi only thinks about himself, specially regarding the money and being too proud to accept a seat because of its unsure competitiveness, even if some of those teams Kimi could have signed for could be perfectly competitive next year.