68 replies to this topic

[Direct Drive]

Nick Fry and Brawn have shown themselves to be ungrateful for Jenson's help in finance before 2009 started, and generally whining and crying babies. He must have been a nightmare to work with and around. If I were Jenson I'd cause them all sorts of time wasted and give them multiple reasons for chasing and spying if only to divert their energies and make a little mayhem. I would have Acme Furniture Co. deliver a full McL simulator to my house ASAP.
Button went above and beyond in his help, from his loyalty when Honda was in the box for so long, to volunteering to cut his salary, to winning and even to allowing Brawn GP the opportunity to hang themselves by not signing the Champion
And because of this childish response in AUTOSPORT, a virus on the team for next year.
What a dickwad.

"Jenson will not be doing anything at all for McLaren until the end of this calendar year," Brawn chief executive officer Nick Fry told AUTOSPORT. "And if he does, we will be looking on it very dimly.

"He didn't have any obligations to us for 2010, but there are issues with regards to the signing process on which we are in discussion with him at the moment. There are clear constraints on what Jenson can do between now and the end of the year, which we will be rigorously enforcing."

Edited by Victor_RO, 20 November 2009 - 13:14.

[swayze]

Nick Fry and Brawn have shown themselves to be ungrateful for Jenson's help in finance before 2009 started, and generally whining and crying babies. He must have been a nightmare to work with and around. If I were Jenson I'd cause them all sorts of time wasted and give them multiple reasons for chasing and spying if only to divert their energies and make a little mayhem. I would have Acme Furniture Co. deliver a full McL simulator to my house ASAP.
Button went above and beyond in his help, from his loyalty when Honda was in the box for so long, to volunteering to cut his salary, to winning and even to allowing Brawn GP the opportunity to hang themselves by not signing the Champion
And because of this childish response in AUTOSPORT, a virus on the team for next year.
What a dickwad.

"Jenson will not be doing anything at all for McLaren until the end of this calendar year," Brawn chief executive officer Nick Fry told AUTOSPORT. "And if he does, we will be looking on it very dimly.

"He didn't have any obligations to us for 2010, but there are issues with regards to the signing process on which we are in discussion with him at the moment. There are clear constraints on what Jenson can do between now and the end of the year, which we will be rigorously enforcing."

Is this the same McLaren that made it possible for Brawn GP to get on the grid in 2009 Sounds like sour grapes from Fry here

[athlon]

I think, they will let him go, but it won't be a huge disadvantage for Jenson, because there won't be tests until February. By the way, I fully understand both Jenson and Brawn as well, it was Jenson's decision to leave the team. It's a normal thing what Fry does.

I think Fry doesn't get enough respect from people. Maybe it's because the low 2005 season after 2004, but don't forget: Nick Fry was the man who refreshed the whole team. Nearly everybody says that it's Ross Brawn's success, but they forget Loic Bigois, John Owen, Francois Martinet, Jörg Zander. They were all "collected" by Nick Fry. He brought them to the team in 2007, even Ross, too. So he would deserve a bit more respect.

[highdownforce]

Is this the same McLaren Mercedes that made it possible for Brawn GP to get on the grid in 2009 Sounds like sour grapes from Fry here

[primer]

It's not directly related to this latest development, but I've felt this for quite some time now: Nick Fry is a dumber version of Martin Whitmarsh. That's all. Just getting it out of my system, carry on.

[Force Ten]

I am going against the overall BB grain here but it feels to me that Fry is genuinely sad and disappointed that Button left. He might have been the only guy in Brawn top management that really really wanted to hold on to Button. It kinda seems to me that good ole Ross himself said generally only as much that was necessary to compliment his lead driver over the press and he nowhere were there signs that he desperately wanted to hold on to his new World Champion. You could never feel real man-love there that you did when you had Fry as a team boss. He was incompetent as a hands on leader but he in fact hired virtually all the top guys there and he was never shy to praise Button in press, when he was a team boss. With Ross it was more like "yeah, Jenson did good today, but we'll see".

[Ricardo F1]

Is this the same McLaren that made it possible for Brawn GP to get on the grid in 2009 Sounds like sour grapes from Fry here

highdownforce - McLaren had a clause in their contract with Mercedes that meant that Mercedes could not supply another team without McLaren's approval. Urgo the original poster is correct.

[Risil]

Button breached contract in visiting Mclaren's factory, I don't see why Nick Fry should extend Jenson any favours. It's not like Button's been particularly professional about contracts in his past dealings, either...

[highdownforce]

highdownforce - McLaren had a clause in their contract with Mercedes that meant that Mercedes could not supply another team without McLaren's approval. Urgo the original poster is correct.

To approve it's quite different than to make it possible.
There was the Ferrari engine available at the time.

Edited by highdownforce, 19 November 2009 - 19:55.

[ensign14]

Button breached contract in visiting Mclaren's factory, I don't see why Nick Fry should extend Jenson any favours.

Mmm, he probably didn't. But, hey, it's business.

[Phucaigh]

Brawn could have dropped Button and let Honda pay him off....

[GIBF1]

Nick Fry is a dumber version of Martin Whitmarsh

I've found Nick's attitude dissapointing the last couple of days and i've said as much but i do think he is a good bloke

Just very bitter

[Muz Bee]

Brawn could have dropped Button and let Honda pay him off....

Subsequent results prove this would not have been a good idea. He brought home the prize and it's sad Fry would risk tainting the achievement
with this sort of behaviour. I can understand his disappointment and there may have been a lot of frustration over the 2010 negotiations but that would have been felt by both parties. Jenson'e leaving speech was well practiced and on the mark, Fry's was not. Brawn/Mercedes were not prepared to pay Jenson what he thought he was worth or what McLaren thought he was worth so flush it and move on. Any he said/she said during negotiations is under the bridge and disappearing from view so I don't think it is smart public behaviour by Nick. Jenson clearly made the right move in light of this despite my earlier belief it was a mistake to leave.

[Risil]

Mmm, he probably didn't. But, hey, it's business.

Well, Jenson certainly broke Ross Brawn's heart, if not his contract.

[One]

Two points. I observed during 2009 that he was behind Button to become the champ, which was a good sign especially after going through this tough time of Honda departure. Yet as the team's commercial boss, he is very incapable of bringing in money that grants FREEDOM to the WCC team. Unfortunately Fry did not impress me as the commercial bass at Honda times, he has this corporate attitude that does speak less about the formula one,... I am biased tho for sure.

[douglasross]

Instead of jumping on the usual band wagon what do any of us know about the clauses in JB's contract with Honda/Brawn. Is this not just normal practice when someone leaves a team ie FA was at Valencia for Ferrari world but was not wearing Ferrari clothing due to his contiuing contractual obligations to Renault. I am also sure that this has happened on numeerous occassions in the past when a driver has left a team at the end of a season.

[Clatter]

Instead of jumping on the usual band wagon what do any of us know about the clauses in JB's contract with Honda/Brawn. Is this not just normal practice when someone leaves a team ie FA was at Valencia for Ferrari world but was not wearing Ferrari clothing due to his contiuing contractual obligations to Renault. I am also sure that this has happened on numeerous occassions in the past when a driver has left a team at the end of a season.

It applies to just about all drivers when they change team, including the incoming Rosberg, who I don't think can do anything at Brawn until the new year.

[teewoods]

To approve it's quite different than to make it possible.
There was the Ferrari engine available at the time.

It was more than approval, Ron went out of his way to broker the Merceds deal. As for Ferrari, Domenicalli said the chance of them offering Brawn and engine was zero. It was only when McLaren offered them the help they had to save face by doing like wise. Thats sinsiter Ferrari for you Brawn and Fry have behaved liked ungreatful spoilt kids and treated Button badly.

[Clatter]

It was more than approval, Ron went out of his way to broker the Merceds deal. As for Ferrari, Domenicalli said the chance of them offering Brawn and engine was zero. It was only when McLaren offered them the help they had to save face by doing like wise. Thats sinsiter Ferrari for you Brawn and Fry have behaved liked ungreatful spoilt kids and treated Button badly.

Do you have a quote regarding Ferrari? I thought they were the first to offer engines.

[jesee]

My question to Button is this...when exactly did he realize he needed new challenge? Was he negotiating in good faith then or was he taking Brawn for a ride?

[GIBF1]

Do you have a quote regarding Ferrari? I thought they were the first to offer engines.

Ross said on the BBC review programme that Ferrari had offered engines

[teewoods]

Do you have a quote regarding Ferrari? I thought they were the first to offer engines.

http://uk.reuters.co...C31045620090112


"The chance of us supplying engines to Honda is close to zero," Domenicali told a news conference at Ferrari's 2009 car launch, without elaborating.


Only to do a turn around as soon as McLaren offered Brawn the help.

[wewantourdarbyback]

"Jenson will not be doing anything at all for McLaren until the end of this calendar year," Brawn chief executive officer Nick Fry told AUTOSPORT. "And if he does, we will be looking on it very dimly.

"He didn't have any obligations to us for 2010, but there are issues with regards to the signing process on which we are in discussion with him at the moment. There are clear constraints on what Jenson can do between now and the end of the year, which we will be rigorously enforcing."

Which is the same as the situation for pretty much every driver, every year.

[Tenmantaylor]

I gotta agree. Jenson put himself out wage wise and showed massive commitment to Brawn and Fry in far less than assured circumstances pre season. Now the shoe is on the other foot with a big money deal in the bag from Merc Brawn and Fry took Jensons commitment for granted. I think this more than anything fuelled Jensons move to McLaren.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 19 November 2009 - 22:26.

[wewantourdarbyback]

Only to do a turn around as soon as McLaren Mercedes offered Brawn the help.

Fixed for you.

[jesee]

I gotta agree. Jenson put himself out wage wise and showed massive commitment to Brawn and Fry in far less than assured circumstances pre season. Now the shoe is on the other foot with a big money deal in the bag from Merc Brawn and Fry took Jensons commitment for granted. I think this more than anything fuelled Jensons move to McLaren.

Iam not sure i agree with you. According to Button, he left because he needed new challenge. Which is well and good. If that is the case then, why was he negotiating with Brawn and dragging their name in the mud with leaks about them only offering him 1 million only extra? He knew, that there was a job available at Mclaren, why wait all that time if he knew he would not remain with them?

I don't think Button is telling the whole truth.

[Psymon]

Instead of jumping on the usual band wagon what do any of us know about the clauses in JB's contract with Honda/Brawn. Is this not just normal practice when someone leaves a team ie FA was at Valencia for Ferrari world but was not wearing Ferrari clothing due to his contiuing contractual obligations to Renault. I am also sure that this has happened on numeerous occassions in the past when a driver has left a team at the end of a season.

I don't have anything against the non-release from contract, it is a fairly usual occurence. However I think Fry did go a bit over the top by saying that they would be rigorously enforcing it... adds to the sour grapes impression. Surely it would just have been enough for him to mention that Button wouldn't be released early and leave it at that

Do you have a quote regarding Ferrari? I thought they were the first to offer engines.

I thought they were as well. I think the main deciding factor between having a Mercedes or Ferrari engine came down to the fact that the Mercedes unit was much easier to integrate into the chassis designed for the Honda lump.

[Ricardo F1]

To approve it's quite different than to make it possible.
There was the Ferrari engine available at the time.

It still wasn't possible without McLaren.

[Ricardo F1]

Fixed for you.

Wrong. Again.

[Tenmantaylor]

Iam not sure i agree with you. According to Button, he left because he needed new challenge. Which is well and good. If that is the case then, why was he negotiating with Brawn and dragging their name in the mud with leaks about them only offering him 1 million only extra? He knew, that there was a job available at Mclaren, why wait all that time if he knew he would not remain with them?

I don't think Button is telling the whole truth.

I dont think Brawn are either! As someone suggested before the announcement, Brawn himself couldve orchestrated this whole thing to get Kimi at a knock down price by not offering Jenson a decent contract.

The fact is both parties announced in the media that Jenson Button wanted to be at Brawn in 2010. However only Brawn could guarentee this to happen. Jenson is WDC and is entitled to set his own terms especially after taking a 50% pay cut to allow the team to race this year. He even won the title with the same chassis all year. No one has ever done that before, an amazing feat for the team and Button for never damaging it in any session. The sign of a true pro. Had he binned it in a practice session or one of the wet races he may not be champion now.

As for wanting a new challenge thats just text book interview right answer talk. If someone asks you in an interview why you are leaving youre old job they trying to uncover a possible negative. You never answer "they pay **** money" you say "i need a new challenge".

[Jay]

Although I think Nick Fry is being a bit moody about this issue, it is usually standard practice...

He's just making it seem a little sinister by telling the whole world.

Rosberg is not exactly working down at Brackley now, is he?.... because he is still under contract, too.

J

Edited by Jay, 19 November 2009 - 22:51.

[undersquare]

http://uk.reuters.co...C31045620090112

"The chance of us supplying engines to Honda is close to zero," Domenicali told a news conference at Ferrari's 2009 car launch, without elaborating.

Only to do a turn around as soon as McLaren offered Brawn the help.

I thought that was only after Brawn had virtually/behind the scenes chosen Mercedes.

From that Reuters article: " Ferrari had said earlier this month that they would be prepared to supply engines to any new owners but no deal was in place."

[acelik]

JB did the right thing for me. if they really had wanted JB, then they could have signed the contract long ago before mercedes bought the team. but they waited so long and lost the champion.

forget abour ross brawn but nick fry shouldn't talk about jenson loyalty to his team. jenson has been really loyal until mclaren move since 2005.

[Buttoneer]

Iam not sure i agree with you. According to Button, he left because he needed new challenge. Which is well and good. If that is the case then, why was he negotiating with Brawn and dragging their name in the mud with leaks about them only offering him 1 million only extra? He knew, that there was a job available at Mclaren, why wait all that time if he knew he would not remain with them?

I don't think Button is telling the whole truth.

What evidence do you have that it was Buttons team issuing the leaks?

[cotesheath]

I totally agree. And to see comments in the press from Nick saying that he would have expected some loyalty but that those days are perhaps past . The guy stuck with a crap car and team for 7 years when we have all known he has been world champion material since he first stepped into F1. He think he went beyond the call of duty and deserves the best car he thinks he can get . Go for it JB

[ensign14]

I totally agree. And to see comments in the press from Nick saying that he would have expected some loyalty but that those days are perhaps past .

The same loyalty they showed to Sato?

[Clatter]

The same loyalty they showed to Sato?

They showed Rubens lots of loyalty as well.

[ensign14]

Yeah. It's a bit much to talk about loyalty, Button's shown some curious career decisions in the past, but having taken a massive pay cut and been a major factor in Brawn winning the title if we're talking loyalty then surely Merc should have shown it by being a bit more than lukewarm about retaining his contract.

Bit of a diversionary tactic, methinks.

[Tenmantaylor]

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8369244.stm

[Direct Drive]

This is an honest question:
Why don't driver's contracts end at the end of the season?
This year, in addition to many others, seem to show waiting until January 1 leaves bitterness in everyone

[maccaFTW]

Iam not sure i agree with you. According to Button, he left because he needed new challenge. Which is well and good. If that is the case then, why was he negotiating with Brawn and dragging their name in the mud with leaks about them only offering him 1 million only extra? He knew, that there was a job available at Mclaren, why wait all that time if he knew he would not remain with them?

McLaren may not have offered him the job seriously until negotiations with Raikkonen broke down. Kimi was their main man to begin with, and when he didn't work out, they went in another direction.

Personally, I think it was more about the term of the contract. Merc wants Vettel, so I suspect Button was only offered a two-year deal with the writing on the wall that he would eventually be dumped for Vettel. Better to go to McLaren for a three year deal in a top car and amass a good record there, even if he is beaten by Hamilton.

Edited by maccaFTW, 20 November 2009 - 05:35.

[femi]

Do you have a quote regarding Ferrari? I thought they were the first to offer engines.

They were the first to be approached by Brawn and it looked like they were going to get Ferrari engine, but Ferrari backed out and they turned to Mclaren and in the spirit of FOTA, Mclaren agreed but not before they (Brawn) were turned down by Ferrari.

[Clatter]

They were the first to be approached by Brawn and it looked like they were going to get Ferrari engine, but Ferrari backed out and they turned to Mclaren and in the spirit of FOTA, Mclaren agreed but not before they (Brawn) were turned down by Ferrari.

That's not the way Brawn tells the story. His version is that he was offered engines by both Ferrari and Merc, and chose Merc because it was easier to adapt the chassis to it.

Edit.
Apologies, just checked and it was Brawn that approached Ferrari.
http://formula-1.upd...ngine/view.html

Edited by Clatter, 20 November 2009 - 08:22.

[GIBF1]

That's not the way Brawn tells the story. His version is that he was offered engines by both Ferrari and Merc, and chose Merc because it was easier to adapt the chassis to it.

Them were his words on the review show

[p432rpp]

Nick is sounding like he grew up on a lemon farm!

I've found Nick's attitude dissapointing the last couple of days and i've said as much but i do think he is a good bloke

Just very bitter

[RedBaron]

Brawn could have dropped Button and let Honda pay him off....

And pre-testing which decent driver would have stepped into that Brawn GP car, believing it would fail reliability and be a dog as previous years? And would the mediocre 'just get me in F1 again' driver have done the job as well as Button did?

[One]

This is an honest question:
Why don't driver's contracts end at the end of the season?
This year, in addition to many others, seem to show waiting until January 1 leaves bitterness in everyone

I guess it gives a sort of Gardening time in case if someone moves out like Jenson did...

[MinT]

Stopping Button from working with McLaren until his contract ceases is fine, common sense in fact.

Whining in the press about the move is however not cool. Brawn have been lukewarm at best about keeping their WDC so they should accept that feeling wanted by what is currently a bigger/better team would be more than enough for most people to want to move...

Anyway I,m off for a meeting with Jenson this morning so will tell you what he has to say later

Edited by MinT, 20 November 2009 - 08:39.

[Tenmantaylor]

I guess it gives a sort of Gardening time in case if someone moves out like Jenson did...

Exactly. No team will want to give another team extra prep time for the coming season. Its sort of a legal sabotage.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 20 November 2009 - 11:48.

[Gareth]

Stopping Button from working with McLaren until his contract ceases is fine, common sense in fact.

As would have been McLaren saying "no, Merc, you cannot supply Brawn".