2427 replies to this topic

[Phucaigh]

Firstly the highly respected Dieter Rencken reported that a Serbian was seen a lot around the Toyota base in Cologne and he indicated it was perhaps Stefan GP...

Today Joe Saward says Stefan GP will run the Toyota package next year backed by the Serbian government.

http://joesaward.wor...rds-of-cologne/

It would be like a lease agreement rather than a takeover it seems - the full package from designs, gearbox, engine, staff and even drivers...

Edited by Phucaigh, 27 November 2009 - 10:41.

[MegaManson]

Is that that dodgy bloke who sued the FIA recently ?

Can see his team getting a rough ride from the stewards and scrutineers every race

[Phucaigh]

Is that that dodgy bloke who sued the FIA recently ?

Can see his team getting a rough ride from the stewards and scrutineers every race

I don't know a lot about him so don't know.

I should have said drivers if required.

[Burai]

I would imagine that the FIA would state that due to the team changing hands, it was a new entry (ala Brawn) and as such would open the 13th slot to other applicants.

As such, I'd imagine that they'd do everything in their power to make sure that Sauber win the slot.

[pgj]

With Sauber buying back BMW's F1 team it will be interesting to see what the FIA reaction will be.

[MegaManson]

QUADBAC or whatever they are called is owned by an ex convict fraudster bankrolled by a nation collapsing under the weight of its own debt, I don't see Russell King/QUADBAC passing any "fit and proper person" test

[Burai]

QUADBAC or whatever they are called is owned by an ex convict fraudster bankrolled by a nation collapsing under the weight of its own debt, I don't see Russell King/QUADBAC passing any "fit and proper person" test

But Qadbak pulled out of their bid to buy Sauber. They aren't involved with the team any more.

[MegaManson]

But Qadbak pulled out of their bid to buy Sauber. They aren't involved with the team any more.

Aah didn't know that, who is buying the team now ?

If it is still King I don't see the FIA granting him a gridslot

[Phucaigh]

Dieter Rencken said it would be similar to Dallara building the Campos car.

In this case it would be Toyota building the Stefan GP car, Toyota own an entry so maybe they found a way of staying within the Concorde agreement which they signed while letting someone else have all the expense.

BMW made the mistake of not signing the Concorde agreement.

[Phucaigh]

Aah didn't know that, who is buying the team now ?

If it is still King I don't see the FIA granting him a gridslot

Peter Sauber if they get an entry into F1.

[Rob]

I would imagine that the FIA would state that due to the team changing hands, it was a new entry (ala Brawn) and as such would open the 13th slot to other applicants.

As such, I'd imagine that they'd do everything in their power to make sure that Sauber win the slot.

They can't do that or they'd have to do the same with Mercedes.

[Burai]

They can't do that or they'd have to do the same with Mercedes.

I don't see that being a problem. Open up slots 12 and 13 and there'd be no question of Mercedes taking slot 12 based on facilities, budget and ownership.

[AndyPerry]

If I recall correctly, Stefan GP was supposed to be there for the season opener in Melbourne in 1996. Nothing came of it.

Now they're supposed to buy BMW/Sauber and race with financial bcaking from the Serbian government? I'd like to see that happen... Serbia has enough problems by keeping afloat

[Captain Tightpants]

If I recall correctly, Stefan GP was supposed to be there for the season opener in Melbourne in 1996. Nothing came of it.

He then tried to buy Lola's 1997 effort after they folded. I mean, of all the cars out there that he could have bought, he picked the Lola!?

[m1lan]

I am from Serbia, and I can tell you that is 0.0001 % chances that our government will support this team.

And I am 99% sure that our government don't know anything about this.

[Rob]

He then tried to buy Lola's 1997 effort after they folded. I mean, of all the cars out there that he could have bought, he picked the Lola!?

The Lola was a bit of an enigma. I guess it's always possible that it was fundamentally fine, with a few flaws that could have been corrected. Anyway, it would probably be more cost-effective to start with the Lola project than to start entirely from scratch.

[Phucaigh]

Joe Saward said Serbian Government backing, Dieter Rencken did not

[wj_gibson]

He then tried to buy Lola's 1997 effort after they folded. I mean, of all the cars out there that he could have bought, he picked the Lola!?

The Lola was never tested, though - the Australian GP was the first time the car had run in "proper" conditions. All they did beforehand was a derisory shakedown at Santa Pod. So we#ll neevr know if there was any potential in it or not.

[dau]

This Stefan guy has no surname? Its dodgy bussiness. And it gives me the creeps.

Zoran Stefanovic.

[gaheir]

So this way Toyota can avoid paying the fine?
But who is this guy? I dont know nothing about him....

[Mandzipop]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/80357

Excuse my thickness, but how is this supposed to work?

[Timstr11]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/80357

Excuse my thickness, but how is this supposed to work?

LOL. Now everybody thinks they can do a Brawn.

[sumpthy]

If Stefan gets the 13th grid slot over Sauber then they'll quickly become my least favourite team on the grid.

[katmen]

If Stefan gets the 13th grid slot over Sauber then they'll quickly become my least favourite team on the grid.

I personally keep my opinion about stefan gp open and unbiased, we will see...

but Sauber/bmw was extremely stupid not to sign concorde agreement to get a place in 2010 entry list

[Mandzipop]

LOL. Now everybody thinks they can do a Brawn.

They aren't even doing that if I'm reading the story correctly. After reading that, it gives the impression that only the designs are being bought and not the grid slot. If they buy the slot, they are going to have to extend it to 14 teams because that would be so unfair over Sauber. Mind you, since when has F1 been fair?

[Mandzipop]

http://www.jamesalle..._source=twitter

James Allen trying to make sense of it.

[JarnoA]

They can't do that or they'd have to do the same with Mercedes.

Brawn sold 75% of the team to Merc. Brawn were considered a new team because Honda announced their withdrawal from the sport, as Toyota has.

Spyker/FI weren't new entries because they just sold up without announcing withdrawal.

[jeze]

I'm extremely suspicious about the whole thing. I both hope and believe that it won't be reality. See, a man who wanted to rebadge the 1997 Lolas' can't be taken seriously. Peter Sauber can. To me it's a no-brainer. Toyota's entry should be withdrawn, and Sauber should be handed the 13:th entry. Stefanovic is just a joke. Does he believe he could run an F1 team out of Serbia? Or whereelse is his suspicious facility. Where are the backers, where are the staff?

To be honest, after all this, it wouldn't surprise me if Simon Gillett is involved

Edited by jeze, 27 November 2009 - 20:32.

[Hypnotise]

I am from Serbia, and I can tell you that is 0.0001 % chances that our government will support this team.

And I am 99% sure that our government don't know anything about this.

You think the Seribian Goverment can afford to pay ?
I mean the Balkan countries are pretty poor (Bosnia,Serbia)

[Slowinfastout]

I'm extremely suspicious about the whole thing. I both hope and believe that it won't be reality. See, a man who wanted to rebadge the 1997 Lolas' can't be taken seriously. Peter Sauber can. To me it's a no-brainer. Toyota's entry should be withdrawn, and Sauber should be handed the 13:th entry. Stefanovic is just a joke. Does he believe he could run an F1 team out of Serbia? Or whereelse is his supsicious facility. Where are the backers, where are the staff?

To be honest, after all this, it wouldn't surprise me if Simon Gillett is involved

My understanding is that it would still be the Cologne F1 team running under another name..

I agree it's a bit of a mess though, let's see if the FIA remains consistent with their established process, because it may means to take decisions that go against logic..

[Rob]

Brawn sold 75% of the team to Merc. Brawn were considered a new team because Honda announced their withdrawal from the sport, as Toyota has.

Are you sure about this? It sounds like a very vague way to determine if an entry is new or not.

[jeze]

My understanding is that it would still be the Cologne F1 team running under another name..

I agree it's a bit of a mess though, let's see if the FIA remains consistent with their established process, because it may means to take decisions that go against logic..

Toyota appears less than keen to allow a privateer move into their house, so I seriously doubt it. According to all sources I have read it's about car supply only. It may turn out it's decent to start with, but Stefan will be hopeless on development, that's kind of granted.

[Rob]

Toyota appears less than keen to allow a privateer move into their house, so I seriously doubt it. According to all sources I have read it's about car supply only. It may turn out it's decent to start with, but Stefan will be hopeless on development, that's kind of granted.

If Mr Stefanovic can get the right team of people around him then there's no reason why the team shouldn't be alright. Flavio Briatore knew less than naff all about Formula One when he started. If Stefan GP means that the team in Cologne can keep their jobs then I have no problems with it whatsoever.

[JarnoA]

Are you sure about this? It sounds like a very vague way to determine if an entry is new or not.

Vague? Yes

But that was max mosley's reasoning.

[Mark A]

Are you sure about this? It sounds like a very vague way to determine if an entry is new or not.

I'd say it was more about how the Mercedes deal is worked.

If Brawn request a team name change from Brawn to Mercedes it's just about selling a few shares in the company and a name change.

Toyota have said they are leaving. Unless they do the same thing, i.e. sell the shares in Toyota F1 to Stefan and he then requests a name change to Stefan GP, the Stefan entry would be a new entry and would end up in the same situation as Brawn before this season.

I really don't see Toyota selling the 'team' to Stefan GP.

Edited by Mark A, 27 November 2009 - 20:37.

[Rob]

Vague? Yes

But that was max mosley's reasoning.

Do you have a link to it? I don't think I've seen that and I'd be interested to read what he had to say.

[Phucaigh]

A good article by Adam Cooper.

http://formula-one.s...t-toyota-entry/

[sir jackie walker]

Well, as far as I know, Toyota is still an entry and has signed the Concorde, despite the announced withdrawal. So, I reckon, FIA has nothing to complain if they rebadge themselves as "Stefan GP", and get the budget from Serbian gvt. Personally I would like Sauber-Ferrari more than Stefan-Toyota, but there's no harm done to the overall quality of entries, if Toyota will provide Stefan with chassis, engine, et al and run the operation. It's up to Sir Frank now to make Sauber an actual entry - if Toyota indeed is "leased". I hope he won't be such a douchebag.

edit
OK, the link above says contrary, and it's not going to happen, apparently. But why can't Toyota lease their entry as well (unless they have surrendered it, of course, as the link claims) - effectively rename their F1 operatons "Stefan" and be paid by Stefanović?

Edited by sir jackie walker, 27 November 2009 - 20:45.

[Rob]

I'd say it was more about how the Mercedes deal is worked.

If Brawn request a team name change from Brawn to Mercedes it's just about selling a few shares in the company and a name change.

Toyota have said they are leaving. Unless they do the same thing, i.e. sell the shares in Toyota F1 to Stefan and he then requests a name change to Stefan GP, the Stefan entry would be a new entry and would end up in the same situation as Brawn before this season.

But you see, this is what I don't get. They are pretty much identical scenarios. Shares change hands and the name is changed. Except one former owner announced to the press that they were leaving. As far as I'm aware, announcing something to the press is not some legally binding agreement. If they had signed official documents to release them from their entry for next year, then yes, I could understand why a new owner would have to get a new entry.

Mercedes must also be treated as a new entry, or there will be double standards at work.

[jeze]

If Mr Stefanovic can get the right team of people around him then there's no reason why the team shouldn't be alright. Flavio Briatore knew less than naff all about Formula One when he started. If Stefan GP means that the team in Cologne can keep their jobs then I have no problems with it whatsoever.

Just considering entering the 1997 Lolas on an F1 track that he did is worthy a lifetime ban for seirously damaging the credibility of the sport

[robracer]

But you see, this is what I don't get. They are pretty much identical scenarios. Shares change hands and the name is changed. Except one former owner announced to the press that they were leaving. As far as I'm aware, announcing something to the press is not some legally binding agreement. If they had signed official documents to release them from their entry for next year, then yes, I could understand why a new owner would have to get a new entry.

Mercedes must also be treated as a new entry, or there will be double standards at work.

But Mercedes aren't a new entry, Brawn signed the concore agreement and they are still 24.9% Brawn GP.

[Rob]

Just considering entering the 1997 Lolas on an F1 track that he did is worthy a lifetime ban for seirously damaging the credibility of the sport

Crap though they were, starting from the ashes of the Lola project would still have been cheaper than starting from scratch.

[Rob]

But Mercedes aren't a new entry, Brawn signed the concore agreement and they are still 24.9% Brawn GP.

So did Toyota. Thus any buyer shouldn't be a new entry either.

[robracer]

So did Toyota. Thus any buyer shouldn't be a new entry either.

But Toyota haven't and won't be bought by anyone. Stefan GP won't be on the grid unless Renault or another team pull out, and then they will be a fifth new team in 2010.

Sauber are there because Toyota have quit. So the 13 teams will be the 4 new teams and this years teams minus Toyota.

Edited by robracer, 27 November 2009 - 20:52.

[Slowinfastout]

But Toyota haven't and won't be bought by anyone. Stefan GP won't be on the grid unless Renault or another team pull out, and then they will be a fifth new team in 2010.

Sauber are there because Toyota have quit. So the 13 teams will be the 4 new teams and this years teams minus Toyota.

Sauber aren't already there yet.. not officially anyway.

[Rob]

Sauber are there because Toyota have quit. So the 13 teams will be the 4 new teams and this years teams minus Toyota.

But if Toyota are bought, then they will trump Sauber.

[jeze]

But if Toyota are bought, then they will trump Sauber.

Why doesn't Sauber buy out Toyota then ;)

[robracer]

But if Toyota are bought, then they will trump Sauber.

Read my post again.
http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=4017095

But Toyota haven't and won't be bought by anyone.

[Slowinfastout]

It's so comforting to have someone here who knows exactly what is going on with the Toyota F1 entry situation..

[Rob]

But Toyota haven't and won't be bought by anyone.

If there's a chance of making some money back by selling the team, it will always remain a possibility.