6359 replies to this topic

[MichaelPM]

The despicable team order nearly gave FA the WDC.

And this is exactly why Ferrari where right to do it.

[saudoso]

Isn't it about time to lock this thread down and start a new one?

Or better wait until the first test to leave this behind and start on new stuff to discuss?

[speng]

Flawed to a neglible degree, as every comparison really. Everyone knows that car performance is by far the biggest factor in F1, and Kubica/Petrov did drive the same car. And accidentically they both had nearly identically performing outright faster cars to defend against. And they both managed with apparent ease. If that's not a comparable situation then you never should compare anything.

[Seanspeed]

I don't agree. Just prior to the German GP, which was halfway through the season, Alonso was on 98 points vs 67 for Felipe. 31 points difference halfway through the season, just over 1 race wins worth of points, isn't all that significant with the new points system.

It wasn't the points gap from Alonso to Massa that was so important. It was the gap from the guys at the top of the standings that made it so Massa's WDC chances were essentially nil. At least Alonso, only 5th in the points, still had a sniff of a chance, albeit a small one(at the time). Alonso was Ferrari's ONLY chance for the title and everybody knows this.

[kosmos]

I think it was more than the points, probably the team felt that Massa was no challenge for the top guys. The engineers have a lot of data from both drivers, they are smartest than "Massa is behind by 30 points".

[madrocker]

And that is exactly the reason they have kept him. They HAVE the data and KNOW how he compares against top drivers... stop puttin my man down

[ArtShelley]

It wasn't the points gap from Alonso to Massa that was so important. It was the gap from the guys at the top of the standings that made it so Massa's WDC chances were essentially nil. At least Alonso, only 5th in the points, still had a sniff of a chance, albeit a small one(at the time). Alonso was Ferrari's ONLY chance for the title and everybody knows this.

That gap to the leaders is also meaningless. By the same argument, RBR should have put all their bets on Webber. I think the last sentence of your post and Kosmos' post following your previous one hits the nail on the head - that is, the team knew Alonso was the only chance for the title.

But you still miss my point - I'm not pointing a finger at Ferrari for their decision. Their decision was sound. My point is very, very simply that from the driver's perspective - from Massa's perspective, and most probably any other driver whose bum sat in the same seat - his feeliing was that the win at Germany was an opportunity to catch up on the points deficit and possibly his belief that he was on the verge of finding a solution to his tyre woes. You all speak as if a driver giving up a win halfway through the season is the most natural thing in the world. You can argue it from the team's perspective and I 100% share your view. But to not see it also from the driver's perspective indicates a serious lack of human empathy.

Few drivers have, would, or will ever be a good a team player as Felipe Massa. If he fails to perform in 2011, let's look forward to someone like Kubica or Vettel being partnered with Alonso. That would be quite interesting.

[as65p]

Few drivers have, would, or will ever be a good a team player as Felipe Massa.

Overall, through his career, yes. That day in Hockenheim, no. Ironically, it might have been his earlier readiness to play the team game (especially with MS back in the day) which brought him into trouble, because the team certainly showed no reluctance to walk over "Felipe-baby". I doubt they would have tried the same stunt on Alonso, or Räikönnen for that matter, regardless the points situation.

If he fails to perform in 2011, let's look forward to someone like Kubica or Vettel being partnered with Alonso. That would be quite interesting.

Helmut Marko has already spoken on Vettels behalf (so for what that's worth) how it would be silly to join Ferrari as long as Alonso is there. Kubica, now that would be nice.

[ArtShelley]

Overall, through his career, yes. That day in Hockenheim, no. Ironically, it might have been his earlier readiness to play the team game (especially with MS back in the day) which brought him into trouble, because the team certainly showed no reluctance to walk over "Felipe-baby". I doubt they would have tried the same stunt on Alonso, or Räikönnen for that matter, regardless the points situation.

Helmut Marko has already spoken on Vettels behalf (so for what that's worth) how it would be silly to join Ferrari as long as Alonso is there. Kubica, now that would be nice.

If Ferrari would not have dared to try the same stunt on Alonso or Kimi, then the fact that they tried it on Massa implies that Massa has a right to feel aggrieved just as any other driver would. But anyway, let's agree to disagree and move on.

I think what Marko said is worthless since he's not Seb's manager, and his position as advisor to Red Bull would require him to say and do whatever it takes to keep talent. So of course he would try and dissuade Seb from leaving RBR, and it wouldn't be due to looking after Seb's best interest.

[ed24f1]

Obviously Australia goes to Alonso.

I would say Malaysia goes to Massa, just. He was legitimately ahead of Alonso before the pitstops, and it was only due to Alonso's own mistake that he fell behind again. He was also faster than Alonso through much of practice and qualifying. It was definitely an improved performance from Massa, but he still needs to improve his Q3 performance - he can't afford to keep making mistakes on the crucial final lap.


EDIT: Sorry, I searched scorecard and missed the other thread with a different title
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=139598

Edited by ed24f1, 11 April 2011 - 11:51.