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Autosport's Greatest Drivers Poll [and Autosprint's top 100 drivers]


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#101 potmotr

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:23

God help us all. Can someone tell when he is on the road? The guy was a total menace, a liability and a disgrace, and should have been banned for life for ruining Herbert's career.


Yeah, he was pretty wild.

Ironic that his zero to hero chance at a championship point at Monaco in 1990 was ruined after being punted off by Eric Bernard.

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#102 robracer

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:23

pics from another view
http://thechicaneblo...rmann-crash.jpg

http://static.blogo....errmannhans.jpg


:eek:

Sorry, the pics don't ring any bells. :p

#103 Anssi

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:24

sorry...for work I use always the caps lock on...I'm sorry



When you write e-mails? :p

:cat:

Sorry, let's get back on topic...

#104 sensible

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:26

I think these polls/surveys do show one thing quite clearly - the relatiove groups.
Essentially F1 drivers are divided into 4 main groups
1. The super-elite. Basically the top 5 in this list. Virtually all surveys have these same 5 in some order or other.
2. The next 10. The guys from 5-15 are more or less "other drivers who have won championships (or should have)".
3. A bunch of drivers who have won races
4 others

These groupings are failry consistent. So while there will never be agreements on who is the best of all time, I think 99% of people (rabid fanboys excluded) would agree that it is one of the men in the top 5 of this list


#105 depailler on tyrrell p34

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:30

When you write e-mails? :p

:cat:

Sorry, let's get back on topic...


:lol: no,when I put some words in autocad drawings :up:

#106 potmotr

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:33

Something has dawned on me.

This list is compiled on the opinions of underachievers!

Lots of world champions didn't vote.

Champs who did: Andretti, Schumacher, Brabham, Scheckter, Hill, Surtees

Champs who didn't: Piquet, Prost, Lauda, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Villeneuve, Rosberg, Hakkinen, Mansell, Fittipaldi

#107 Jodum5

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:35

I don't agree with all the rankings, but I'm not going to argue with any of the people who've actually driven the cars.

Edited by Jodum5, 10 December 2009 - 17:35.


#108 Anssi

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:42

:lol: no,when I put some words in autocad drawings :up:


OK - I've done that also but not with Autocad... :cat:

#109 billm99uk

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:48

The problem with these polls in that there's an in-built bias towards the modern drivers who people have heard of and against old timers whose fans are mostly dead now. Only the absolute top-line stars of their day like Fangio can get over that.

#110 Arion

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:50

Something has dawned on me.

This list is compiled on the opinions of underachievers!

Lots of world champions didn't vote.

Champs who did: Andretti, Schumacher, Brabham, Scheckter, Hill, Surtees

Champs who didn't: Piquet, Prost, Lauda, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Villeneuve, Rosberg, Hakkinen, Mansell, Fittipaldi


Jackie Stewart didn't vote either. It's just a silly but fun exercise really, but Schumacher probably gave his list some serious thought, damn I really want to see his list eventhough it's likely to be very similar to the final results.



#111 fer312t

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 17:55

This list is full of inexplicable wierdness...

No Coulthard(!), no Frentzen....but someone like Liuzzi is on the list???

Henri Pescarolo ahead of Siffert, Mclaren, Hulme...what???


#112 Sausage

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 18:11

Hehe hilarious. But then again lists like this will always be that, amusing but useless. Fangio for example was a great and fast driver but he had good access and a purse to the best stuff also, it's impossible to judge him to drivers today.

No Coulthard must hurt his ego

#113 Atreiu

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 18:18

You guys will never ever find a list to match yours.
I've stop trying to find one for quite a while.

#114 femi

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 18:58

Which ever way one cuts it, Senna is the greatest and the best ever.

Edited by femi, 10 December 2009 - 18:58.


#115 potmotr

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:03

Which ever way one cuts it, Senna is the greatest and the best ever.


I reckon there are strong arguments against that.

Senna was awesome, don't get me wrong.

But he was also helped make Formula One much more dirty on track.

To me that influenced lots of young drivers, which isn't a good thing.

#116 as65p

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:09

Finally! :clap:

Now really, 114 posts to get to the core business? What took you so long, guys? :p

#117 BunnyK

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:10

This looks more like a popularity contest, top 10 is not bad, both Schumacher and Fangio have achieved more during their careers, but Senna could have done more and that perception is what puts him ahead of everybody (something that curiously doesn't happen with Clark) , voting rules don't specify what greatest means so each driver can have a very different point of view, and of course there are lot of "forgotten" names which appear too low in the list for what they've done and others beeing so high due to last performances, that tells you fans are not the only ones to rate drivers for their last race... :)

#118 DOF_power

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:25

I don't see Senna ahead of Schumacher.
When a guy comes up the media and says he's not motivated without Prost on the field, for me that excludes him from the top spot.


#119 ensign14

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:33

Which ever way one cuts it, Senna is the greatest and the best ever.

True greats do not feel the need to cheat.

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#120 King Six

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:36

It's probably because he died in a race, that's how the world works. Not really surprised Senna won it, what I don't like is all this dynastic crap that's creeping into F1. You have these Piquet Jr **** and Senna nephew and suddenly just because they're related there's already some sort of halo around them (well until one decides to crash on purpose to save his shitty career)

#121 potmotr

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:37

I don't see Senna ahead of Schumacher.


For me they are both beneath Prost, Stewart, Fangio and Clark.

Senna and Schumacher were amazing drivers, but their obsession with winning meant they drove people off the road.

That's not sport.




#122 billm99uk

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:41

It's probably because he died in a race, that's how the world works.


Yeah, dying young gives you a boost in popularity in any field. It's the "Rock star" thing :well:

#123 Les

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:46

Crikey,

This list is crazy as just about everyone sees, for example we have a multiple race winner and championship runner-up listed alongside Kazuki Nakajima! There are other crazy ones too like Lamy, Suzuki, Tony Maggs.

Also some of the panel are stretching the definition of F1 Driver to the extreme e.g. Leo Kinnunen, Fritz D’Orey, Mike MacDowel or Tiff Needell! Countless others too who barely qualify as an F1 Driver.

#124 highdownforce

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:47

That's not sport.

Was it supposed to be? ;)

Edit: Piquet Snr and Fittipaldi being lower ranked than Alonso, that's a ****ing anomaly!

Edited by highdownforce, 10 December 2009 - 19:48.


#125 potmotr

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:49

Also some of the panel are stretching the definition of F1 Driver to the extreme e.g. Leo Kinnunen, Fritz D’Orey, Mike MacDowel or Tiff Needell! Countless others too who barely qualify as an F1 Driver.


Good point, even Tommy Byrne has been asked.

And there's a real lack of world champions too!




#126 ensign14

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:51

Also some of the panel are stretching the definition of F1 Driver to the extreme e.g. Leo Kinnunen, Fritz D’Orey, Mike MacDowel or Tiff Needell! Countless others too who barely qualify as an F1 Driver.

To be fair, they are all F1 drivers, they drove in Formula 1 World Championship races. No matter how briefly.

#127 DOF_power

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:54

For me they are both beneath Prost, Stewart, Fangio and Clark.

Senna and Schumacher were amazing drivers, but their obsession with winning meant they drove people off the road.

That's not sport.




Prost - lacking adaptability, mouth problems
Stewart - lacking adaptability,
Fangio - mercenary, mouth problems, couldn't developed any car or team
Clark - overly shy and introverted, lacking leadership

#128 DOF_power

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:55

Was it supposed to be?;)

Edit: Piquet Snr and Fittipaldi being lower ranked than Alonso, that's a ****ing anomaly!




Not really. They weren't very adaptable drivers.
Piquet got fired due to rookie Schumacher, witch spoke a lot about his communication and bonding skills.

#129 SPBHM

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:56

Yeah, dying young gives you a boost in popularity in any field. It's the "Rock star" thing :well:


even when senna was alive, I think most people would still rate at at least the top 3 of this kind of list, then Senna died in front of millions of people watching the race in TV while he was leading a race... well that helped his popularity, but even without this he deserves respect, I know that many guys here hates him and can only talk about his faults but....

as for the list, some parts like the expected (top 10?) but there are some really strange things, like Coulthard and Barrichello not present in the list and K. Nakajimas in it and many others...

Edited by SPBHM, 10 December 2009 - 19:56.


#130 Arion

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:56

It's probably because he died in a race, that's how the world works.


Jim Clark died in a race too. That's why he's on the list?



#131 Les

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 19:58

To be fair, they are all F1 drivers, they drove in Formula 1 World Championship races. No matter how briefly.


Technically they can be described as F1 Drivers true, but there's so many of them who started one race at the rear of the field. I would have rather had a smaller list of drivers who were established in F1 regular points scorers or race competitors.

#132 Les

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:01

Prost - lacking adaptability, mouth problems
Stewart - lacking adaptability,
Fangio - mercenary, mouth problems, couldn't developed any car or team
Clark - overly shy and introverted, lacking leadership


What is mouth problems? How do you know? Has Prost seen a dentist? Did Clark need to have leadership skills? He seemed to have a pretty special relationship with Lotus.

#133 bladesblood

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:01

Senna at No1 ...spot on !!! :clap:

BUT ????? WHERES THE STIG ?????? :confused:

#134 billm99uk

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:03

46: Piero Taruffi (I'd never heard of this guy!) (Neither have I!)

:stoned:


Pah! Educate yourselves! Immediately! :mad:

Piero Taruffi

Not to mention have a gawk at his rather odd land speed record car....

Piero Taruffis 1952 land speed record

He's even got his own museum ;)


#135 Les

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:06

Senna at No1 ...spot on !!! :clap:

BUT ????? WHERES THE STIG ?????? :confused:


He's in second place!

#136 highdownforce

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:11

Not really. They weren't very adaptable drivers.

Adaptable to what? A Coopersucar?
Also, Piquet has race wins with cars from 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 90 and 91. How on earth this is not to be adaptable?

#137 DOF_power

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:13

What is mouth problems? How do you know? Has Prost seen a dentist? Did Clark need to have leadership skills? He seemed to have a pretty special relationship with Lotus.




The 1991 Ferrari handles like a truck thing that got him fired at Ferrari, the McLaren team favors Senna witch got his a lot of antipathy at McLaren, the blame game witch got him to split with Renault.

If Clark was to arrive at Ferrari in 96 he would have needed social skills, leadership, a proactive attitude and the capacity to galvanize a team.

#138 DOF_power

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:15

Adaptable to what? A Coopersucar?
Also, Piquet has race wins with cars from 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 90 and 91. How on earth this is not to be adaptable?




He was an adaptive driver (as in adapt the car via the setup to his liking), not an adaptable driver, as in Clark/Senna/Schumacher instant car flaw compensation adaptability.

#139 Les

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:17

If Clark was to arrive at Ferrari in 96 he would have needed social skills, leadership, a proactive attitude and the capacity to galvanize a team.


That's a different way to looking at it from me. I tend to think about the career they did have and not an imagined career they might have had but fair enough.

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#140 highdownforce

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:17

He was an adaptive driver (as in adapt the car via the setup to his liking), not an adaptable driver, as in Clark/Senna/Schumacher instant car flaw compensation adaptability.

And that makes Alonso better than both because...

#141 billm99uk

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:23

OK, pop quiz time! Who's the driver who's won the most grand prix that DIDN'T make the list?

I don't know, just asking :p

#142 Brawn BGP 001

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:27

OK, pop quiz time! Who's the driver who's won the most grand prix that DIDN'T make the list?

I don't know, just asking :p

David Coulthard?

#143 noikeee

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:28

The minute I saw the article on Autosport.com I knew you bunch of easily offended sissies (there isn't any other name I can brand you, given the responses), would be running wild crying for heads to be chopped off.

Dudes, look at the method they used to make the list. Each driver would have 10 picks, no more, no less. That is obviously a fairly good method for getting a nice top 10 or 20 as end result, but going any lower it'll be more and more off the mark. Because people could only vote for 10! Go lower and lower in the ranks and you'll start getting the pisstake votes, the "I'll vote for my mates" votes, the "I'll vote for my fellow countrymen" votes... and there'll be the odd mildly good drivers, talented enough for maybe a top 40 or 50, that nobody thought of voting for, because everyone could only pick 10.

This is hardly surprising. I bet if we ran the same thing by the same method, here in the forum with forum members, we'd get similar results. Nice little off-season feature by Autosport though.

#144 Les

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:29

David Coulthard?


That's correct. 13 Wins.

#145 DOF_power

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:31

And that makes Alonso better than both because...




Check videos about the driving style of Alonso in the Renaults/Michelin combo, and then in 2007 McLaren/Bridgestone.
There almost nothing alike, as if they're different drivers.

That's when M. Brundle rectified that Alonso doesn't have a dirty driving style, but an adaptable squeeze the most out the car style". He also mention about the way Alonso adapted the car to the corners in a way that he only saw Ayrton Senna do.





#146 ensign14

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:32

Prost - lacking adaptability, mouth problems
Stewart - lacking adaptability,
Fangio - mercenary, mouth problems, couldn't developed any car or team
Clark - overly shy and introverted, lacking leadership

Stewart came within a dodgy engine of winning the Indy 500 as a rookie. He was fairly adaptable. Fangio a mercenary? His teams basically quit from under him. And couldn't develop a team? Remind me how many titles Mercedes and Maserati had without him as a driver.

And I would say introversion/shyness has the thick end of eff all as to how good a driver one is.

#147 highdownforce

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:35

Check videos about the driving style of Alonso in the Renaults/Michelin combo, and then in 2007 McLaren/Bridgestone.


Check this.


#148 billm99uk

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:36

David Coulthard?


Thanks :up:

Ah, the poor wee bairn :cry:

#149 sir jackie walker

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:40

Usually these lists are ridiculous, and this is no exception. Nakajima is naturally a joke, but Massa below Montoya, and many averagely great drivers left completely out for greatly average ones. Alonso has his "recentism bonus" whereas many others got their "killed-in-action" halo - especially Rindt, wtf. Surely not quite that good. And as usual, the greatest of all times is preceded by four nobodies.

Edited by sir jackie walker, 10 December 2009 - 20:40.


#150 Bouncing Pink Ball

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 20:40

So much of the list is hilariously random. I absolutely love it! :rotfl: