9761 replies to this topic

[potmotr]

Game on!

I'm wondering if the Lopez deal will mean Kubica will stay or go.

Noises so far seem to indicate he's staying.

And how realistic is the Lopez managed Ho Ping-Tung?

Edited by potmotr, 16 December 2009 - 11:32.

[wim_jtd]

How about the Belgian Jérome d'Ambrosio, he's also managed by gravity ?

[JPW]

Good news at least Renault stays involved in F1, I'm curious what the plans of Lopez for the team will be.

Hope Kubica stays, why wouldn't he unless there's a better opportunity for him at Mercedes.
Kubica and Ho-Pin Tung driving for Renault in 2010, doesn't sound too bad to me.

Got to give credit to Renault they managed their "retreat" from F1 the honourable way unlike Toyota and BMW who more or less ran off.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

potmotr, on Dec 16 2009, 11:31, said:

Game on!

I'm wondering if the Lopez deal will mean Kubica will stay or go.

Noises so far seem to indicate he's staying.

And how realistic is the Lopez managed Ho Ping-Tung?

That press release didn't mention Kubica. He must have eyed that Mercedes seat, surely. Not to say he would go for it but it must have crossed Morelli's mind.

Well he's got a Renault drive in his pocket, so all in all let's see how it pans out.

Edited by CaptainJackSparrow, 16 December 2009 - 11:41.

[Fubar1979]

Good that they are staying in f1, bad that pro drive didn't get it though just how long is it going to take for Aston Martin to get into F1 seriously lol

Edited by Fubar1979, 16 December 2009 - 11:40.

[Rinehart]

My bet is, since the team has not changed ownership, but taken on significant investment, is still Renault F1, therefore Kubicas contract is water tight.

[Empy]

Did they say nothing about their driver line-up? and about Kubica?

[Captain Tightpants]

They didn't say anything.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Rinehart, on Dec 16 2009, 11:43, said:

My bet is, since the team has not changed ownership, but taken on significant investment, is still Renault F1, therefore Kubicas contract is water tight.

If it's over 51% then it has changed ownership.

There is a press conference later today right? Word was Kubica may be at it, if so then that would be a pretty good indication of what he is doing.

[JPW]

wim_jtd, on Dec 16 2009, 12:38, said:

How about the Belgian Jérome d'Ambrosio, he's also managed by gravity ?

Yes but he's being set-up for GP2 in 2010, he even tested 3 top cars in GP2 in October in order to make a decision which GP2-seat to pursue for 2010.

[potmotr]

A bit weird I'd have thought.

All the journalists I follow on Twitter seem to be saying the Kubica's deal is watertight and he'll be staying.

[djellison]

With one foot in F1, and one foot out, they WILL make an arse of themselves, again.

What a stupid management decision. I pity the Enstone lot, they deserve better.

[Captain Tightpants]

Back at the Brazilian Grand Prix, there was talk that Lopez would buy a team and had allies in the shape of a group of Russian businessmen connected to MegaFon, one of Renault's minor sponsors. If that's the case and they increase their involvement with the team, I'd watch for Vitaly Petrov in car #12.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

potmotr, on Dec 16 2009, 11:46, said:

A bit weird I'd have thought.

All the journalists I follow on Twitter seem to be saying the Kubica's deal is watertight and he'll be staying.

Not what Morelli has said and not what I would expect to be honest, but who knows, I mean he could very well stay, Renault is a good team and a guaranteed drive for 2010 that offers him a lot of freedom in 2011, he wouldn't leave that unless Merc offered him a guaranteed drive for 2010, which they could do, but certainly it remains to be seen.

[JPW]

GenII Capital press release

It says that they'll be exploring opportunities between companies in their portfolio and name Gravity Sports Management as an example, things might be looking good for Ho-Pin Tung.

[potmotr]

Captains Tightpants and Jack Sparrow, a nautical theme developing here!

[potmotr]

JPW, on Dec 16 2009, 11:53, said:

GenII Capital press release

It says that they'll be exploring opportunities between companies in their portfolio and name Gravity Sports Management as an example, things might be looking good for Ho-Pin Tung.

Is HPT really any good though?

I know he's shown a certain promise but is he near the level of a Kobayashi, Grosjean etc?

[Owen]

It would appear that the team will be branded 'Renault' for 2010 but there is no guarantee on that name thereafter, or did I miss something?

[Captain Tightpants]

potmotr, on Dec 16 2009, 22:54, said:

Captains Tightpants and Jack Sparrow, a nautical theme developing here!

I'm not seeing it - I'm "Firefly", he's "Pirates of the Carribean" ...

[stonebutter]

I don't see how his contract is "watertight" The team is Renault F1 only in name - they only have a stake of 25% in the team which is pretty minor.

[Captain Tightpants]

stonebutter, on Dec 16 2009, 23:02, said:

I don't see how his contract is "watertight" The team is Renault F1 only in name - they only have a stake of 25% in the team which is pretty minor.

The problem with that statement is that it assumes Kubica wants to leave. There's the prospect of a Mercedes drive up for grabs, but the train that is Schumacher's possible return gains more momentum with each passing day, and little - if anything - is being done to stop it. If Kubica backed out of Renault, where would he go? There's a spot at Toro Rosso, but why would he go there? There's two on the line at USF1 and one at Campos, but I don't think Kubica wants to go to a new team; it would be to much of a step backwards. And then there's the two at Sauber, but Peter Sauber only wants one experienced driver; the other would likely be a rookie. Kubica would be up against Pedro de la Rosa and Nick Heidfeld for that seat.

The short version is that there's nothing left. Kubica would be better off staying at Renault. Based on the scraps that remain, they still represent his best chance at success in 2010.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

stonebutter, on Dec 16 2009, 12:02, said:

I don't see how his contract is "watertight" The team is Renault F1 only in name - they only have a stake of 25% in the team which is pretty minor.

Yeah well I think that's not really so much the issue since the word from Morelli was that there was a clause that allowed Kubica to leave in this very scenario, the real question is where would he go? Only Mercedes is better bet (and even then there are no guarantees in life, you can't guarantee Mercedes will be a powerhouse in 2010 for all we know things could get shaken up again), but with all the Schumacher rumours I don't think Kubica will take a leap of faith on that unless he is guaranteed a contract to sign, no point letting go of one branch until you have a hold of the next aye? I mean it's certainly an option but Ross and Norbert would need to make a play there cos Kubica can't.

Still, for all we know, Kubica really likes Renault (I mean he's rallying 24-7 atm) so he could very well want to stay, and who knows the 2011 implications for him.

Still, him not being mentioned in the press release does raise an eyebrow. If they don't release a statement on him today, or if he is not at the press conference then that could be telling.

Edited by CaptainJackSparrow, 16 December 2009 - 12:15.

[Clatter]

At least Red Bull know they will have engines next year.
http://www.grandprix...ns/ns22006.html

[wingwalker]

I know nothing about Kubica's contract (as all of us do) but given his situation when he was signing it I'd put my money on him being free to change the team if the ownership changes.. but this bit:

"I am delighted to welcome Genii Capital as our new strategic partner as I am sure that their enthusiasm and business expertise will create a new dynamic for the team, the staff, and our partners.

and this one:

As was predicted, Renault will retain its team name and corporate identity

Makes it sound like it's a new sponsor for Renault, but it's still the F1 Renault team Kubica signed the contract with. The other factor is that noises about Schumacher at Mercedes are getting stronger and stronger and he certainly wouldn't sing a deal with for a 'possible' race seat with anyone, so what options does he have? Plus, we don't really know what are the prospects for the team now - it's not like they need to build it from the scratch, it's a matter of making it going in the right direction again and supplying it with a big enough budget. What I'm saying is that Lopez-Renault team might not be a bad place to be in at all.

[One]

I assume the team is keeping the name in order to waive any issue concerning the validity of the concord agreement 2010 onwards.

The team has got new owner, where as the exact percentage of new shareholding is yet unknown, meaning Kubica has a chance to get away and move to Mercedes if so he wishes to.

[Lord_Shaitan]

Rinehart, on Dec 16 2009, 14:43, said:

My bet is, since the team has not changed ownership, but taken on significant investment, is still Renault F1, therefore Kubicas contract is water tight.

Yeah, I see it very similar. In the official statement we can only read about "sale of a large stake" but not about change of ownership. Whole speculations about 75% of Genii Capital haven't official confirmation.

[patgaw]

I Bet Ho Pin Tung will score more points then Kubica

[One]

;)


Still it is a bit strange if some one owns a team and still let small shareholder owns the team on paper.



Kubica wants to have the top line ride, meaning it should be Mercedes. Renault was his best choice of the time. I rather see him move to Mercedes.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Well well..

Robert Kubica not sure to stay at new-look Renault
BBC 12:30 GMT, Wednesday, 16 December 2009
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8416180.stm

""It's a positive reaction but we have asked for more information," his manager Daniele Morelli told BBC Sport. Morelli added that it was "not automatic" that Kubica would stay with the team."

So he is available, Ross get on the phone!

Edited by CaptainJackSparrow, 16 December 2009 - 12:44.

[sir jackie walker]

I'm afraid discussing Kubica's out-clause has become purely theoretical. Based on Nick Fry's recent comments, Schumi is going to be in car #4, so where would Robert go?

Edited by sir jackie walker, 16 December 2009 - 12:43.

[robracer]

CaptainJackSparrow, on Dec 16 2009, 12:41, said:

Well well..

Robert Kubica not sure to stay at new-look Renault
BBC 12:30 GMT, Wednesday, 16 December 2009
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8416180.stm

""It's a positive reaction but we have asked for more information," his manager Daniele Morelli told BBC Sport. Morelli added that it was "not automatic" that Kubica would stay with the team."

So he is available, Ross get on the phone!

I don't think he will leave Renault now that it seems Michael Schumacher will drive for Mercedes.

Unless, of course, he wants to move back to Sauber.

[JPW]

potmotr, on Dec 16 2009, 12:55, said:

Is HPT really any good though?

I know he's shown a certain promise but is he near the level of a Kobayashi, Grosjean etc?

To be fair if you go by his GP2 results then certainly not but in other categories he has proven himself a pretty decent driver.
But look at Kobayashi he certainly managed to positively surprise people when given a chance in F1.

What's speaking for Ho-Pin Tung right now is that he's managed by a GenII company and that him being Chinese might be very suitable to the business model Lopez choses for the team.

[robracer]

potmotr, on Dec 16 2009, 11:55, said:

Is HPT really any good though?

I know he's shown a certain promise but is he near the level of a Kobayashi, Grosjean etc?

Didn't Ho-Pin Tung test for Williams a few years ago? If so, does anyone remember how well he did?

[Sausage]

Besides from any clause I wonder if he will be happy with the team. If the car works ok sure, but if he'll become a backmarker he should quickly get sour about it all.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

robracer, on Dec 16 2009, 12:45, said:

I don't think he will leave Renault now that it seems Michael Schumacher will drive for Mercedes.

Unless, of course, he wants to move back to Sauber.

Sure, but it was theoritical before, now Merc know that Kubica is on the market and available. I'm sure this will give them pause for thought.

Anyway from Kubica's POV he's come out quite well, Renault survive but he now has the right to switch, that's pretty handy should things not work out with Schuemy or the rumors were bumpkin.

More from Morelli:

"We need some time - at least a few days - to evaluate the new situation so I am not in a position to say we will leave or stay."

So Ross and Norbert, if you want to take Kubica, here's your chance.

Edited by CaptainJackSparrow, 16 December 2009 - 12:52.

[Rinehart]

stonebutter, on Dec 16 2009, 12:02, said:

I don't see how his contract is "watertight" The team is Renault F1 only in name - they only have a stake of 25% in the team which is pretty minor.

But his contract is with Renault F1 and that hasn't changed, was the point I was making, so I'm not sure even 100% ownership would change anything on that basis alone.

[JPW]

robracer, on Dec 16 2009, 13:46, said:

Didn't Ho-Pin Tung test for Williams a few years ago? If so, does anyone remember how well he did?

Yes in 2003 as a reward for winning the Formula BMW series, this is what Theissen and Sam Michael had to say:

http://forums.autosp...p;#entry3982491

[thuGG]

Rinehart did you read recent posts?

[alecc]

Rinehart, on Dec 16 2009, 13:56, said:

But his contract is with Renault F1 and that hasn't changed, was the point I was making, so I'm not sure even 100% ownership would change anything on that basis alone.

Morelli said that there is a get-out clause, and as far I understand him, he confirmed afterd todays Renault statement, that the clause could make Robert a free agent, but we don't know if Norbert is interested in him, so IMO pretty sure Robert will stay, but not because of the contract, only because he hasn't better options.

Edited by alecc, 16 December 2009 - 13:03.

[korzeniow]

opposite info:

http://www.f1fanatic.../robert-kubica/

"The team has already announced Robert Kubica will drive for them next year."

[Timstr11]

Rinehart, on Dec 16 2009, 13:56, said:

But his contract is with Renault F1 and that hasn't changed, was the point I was making, so I'm not sure even 100% ownership would change anything on that basis alone.

Experts say that change of ownership (or change of control) clauses are standard in contracts like this, providing the driver the option to get out if he so chooses.
Looking at what Morelli said, they DO have that option.

[patgaw]

korzeniow, on Dec 16 2009, 14:09, said:

opposite info:

http://www.f1fanatic.../robert-kubica/

"The team has already announced Robert Kubica will drive for them next year."

ofc they did.
http://www.renaultf1...muniques/22417/

but wake up...
that is old news.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

korzeniow, on Dec 16 2009, 13:09, said:

opposite info:

http://www.f1fanatic.../robert-kubica/

"The team has already announced Robert Kubica will drive for them next year."

That's an old article, I'm pretty sure if his manager said it today and he is not mentioned in the press release that he can now leave if he wants, the only real question is whether there will be a space at Merc.

[korzeniow]

patgaw, on Dec 16 2009, 14:16, said:

ofc they did.
http://www.renaultf1...muniques/22417/

but wake up...
that is old news.

yeah, you're right, sorry

I misunderstood that sentence

[EVO2]

I simply can’t understand why Renault did not do a deal with Dave Richards.

His proven track record would give them a much better chance of success especially with Renault’s name staying on the car, at least for year 1

If Lopez did get the team and the factory for nothing Dave Richards has missed out on what was probably the second best possible deal to get into F1 after the Brawn GP deal.


What is really going on here ?

Could it be that Renault wanted their name and their engines to be contracted under a multi-year deal ?

That might be why Prodrive were never in the running.

How much longer have we got to wait to see Prodrive/Dave Richards/Aston Martin competing in F1 ?

As others have said, they would have been top of my list of qualified teams for any one of the new entries.

[One]

Renault to keep the operation in their hands, were as Richard will most certainly take over the business.



Renault to keep the name.


This could mean that Renault will take back the stake later on.

[Rinehart]

thuGG, on Dec 16 2009, 12:58, said:

Rinehart did you read recent posts?

Yes, the speculation you mean.

[Rinehart]

Timstr11, on Dec 16 2009, 13:13, said:

Experts say that change of ownership (or change of control) clauses are standard in contracts like this, providing the driver the option to get out if he so chooses.
Looking at what Morelli said, they DO have that option.

Morelli may have an agenda to WANT to be able to get out.

[Nuvol]

its irrelevant. They have nowhere to go. Kubica stays at Renault 2010.

[Timstr11]

Rinehart, on Dec 16 2009, 15:44, said:

Morelli may have an agenda to WANT to be able to get out.

That's obvious. It's very likely Kubica is nr 2 on Mercedes' short list.