31 replies to this topic

[taylov]

Sitting in the "library" this morning. reading the "Autosport" of August 14 1959 (got to keep up to date), I came across this in the Classified Advertisements.

1949 San Remo 4/CLT Maserati, mechanically perfect, chassis etc. in excellent condition, good body but requires painting. Fantastic amount of spares including 6 cylinder blocks (2 unused), three sets of new pistons, six sets of brake drums and lining, two complete superchargers etc etc. £525 ono

This gem was being offered by Scotts Motors of Jersey. I wonder if it had been there since the 1950 Jersey Road Race?

Apart from the fact that this could have proved a good way of investing £500 over the last 50 years, this advert got me thinking . I used to attend many race meetings at Brands and Crystal Palace during the 1960s but never once did I see a late-1930s or 1940s Maserati racing in a historic race. I even dug out my old programmes and checked.

ERA's galore and Bugatti 35's and 37's represented the pre-war period. Connaughts and Cooper-Bristols from the more recent past (of the day) but never did I see a pukka Maser. The nearest thing was A.O.Ellis in the splendid Derby-Maserati.

Given how common the Maserati marque was in UK racing in the 1930s and 1940s, looking back I find it surprising that I never saw one in historic races of the 1960s. Did I just go to the wrong meetings or was this really the case?

Tony

Edited by taylov, 27 December 2009 - 13:30.

[David McKinney]

You're right. There was one 6CM which appeared quite regularly, but others - and 4CLs and 4CLTs - didn't start reappearing until the 1970s

Historic racing in the '60s wasn't the millionaires' playground it would become, and even a pre-war Maserati would have been an expensive hobby for the ordinary VSCC member - and probably uncompetitive with the ERAs anyway

After the UK-based Maseratis gad ceased to be competitive in contemporary racing, they found their way to far-flung parts of the world. Some are still there

Edited by David McKinney, 27 December 2009 - 13:40.

[Dutchy]

You're right. There was one 6CM which appeared quite regularly, but others - and 4CLs and 4CLTs - didn't start reappearing until the 1970s

Historic racing in the '60s wasn't the millionaires' playground it would become, and even a pre-war Maserati would have been an expensive hobby for the ordinary VSCC member - and probably uncompetitive with the ERAs anyway

After the UK-based Maseratis gad ceased to be competitive in contemporary racing, they found their way to far-flung parts of the world. Some are still there

Morin Scott was the chap who raced a 6CM in the 1960s in VSCC events

[Sharman]

The name Nobby Spero was always connected with Masers in my mind

[David McKinney]

An 8CM in the period in question and later a 250F (driven by his son)
But not, as far as I can recall, a 1500

[Sharman]

David
Thinking back to VSCC meetings in the 50s and 60s, there were often Maseratis in one form or another in the entry list. My main recollection is that they were always being towed round the paddock in an (usually unsuccessful) attempt to get them to start. When they did start they never ran cleanly. Wrong brew or something else?
John

[David McKinney]

I'll have to take you word for all that, John. I was a VSCC race virgin until 1976
I've got the club Bulletins going back though, a good number of programmes, and also of course magazine reports
I think the Martini & Rossi 6CM was the only 1500 active in the 1960s (which is the period specified in taylov's original post)
As to the Maseratis' endemic failure to perform, I guess we have to remember that the knowledge that allows them to run reliably today is the result of years of experience - in the '50s and '60s there were a lot of relatively impecunious owners learning as they went...

[taylov]

This is historic racing at a BARC meeting just as I remember it at the Palace on 9th September 1967, when I was a car mad teenager.


A recently sold image from eBay. No photographer given, alas. I would have been just to the photographer's right.

The Hon. Patrick Lindsay on pole (as always it seemed then) in ERA #78; Brown's C-type ERA alongside. Freeman's Spa Special Aston, Bugatti's galore, a couple of Delage, MG's and even a supercharged Austin 7 at the back (right). But never a Maserati.

Tony

[David McKinney]

As I'm sure you realise now, if not then, if you wanted to see historic cars racing in Britain in the 1960s you went to a VSCC meeting, not a BARC one

[taylov]

As I'm sure you realise now, if not then, if you wanted to see historic cars racing in Britain in the 1960s you went to a VSCC meeting, not a BARC one

Thank you, David. As that car-mad teenager living in South London I would have swapped my sister for the chance to attend a VSCC meeting. Instead I had to get on my bike and pedal the 20 mile round trip to the Crystal Palace (sorry I sound a bit Norman Tebbit ).

Going through the dangerously high pile of programmes in the back room I found this. Proof that a Maserati did appear at least once in a BARC historic race at the Palace. Sadly, a couple of years before I started to attend.


(You may need to click on "full size" on the ImageShack page to get a decent image.)

The photo was taken at the meeting on 22/8/1959 and this is J.R Hayward's Maserati exiting North Tower Crescent (I think). Can anyone confirm this car's history?

Tony

[David McKinney]

Ah yes! But your original question specified 1960s

It's actually the same 6CM as Morin Scott would race a few years later. Number 1540, sold new to Giovanni Rocco February 1937, came to the UK just after the War. I believe it resides with the Fielding family, who have owned it 40 years

Edited by David McKinney, 03 January 2010 - 13:48.

[Dutchy]

Ah yes! But your original question specified 1960s

It's actually the same 6CM as Morin Scott would race a few years later. Number 1540, sold new to Giovanni Rocco February 1937, came to the UK just after the War. I believe it resides with the Fielding family, who have owned it 40 years

It is the car with which the late Ray Fielding did so much to raise the profile of pre war Maseratis in historic racing. I believe the car has recently been sold along with his A6GCM/250 "2503"

[David McKinney]

Yes, this is the 6CM Fielding campaigned throughout the '70s.
I hadn't heard it had been sold though - or the A6GCM. What about his 250F?

Edited by David McKinney, 04 January 2010 - 16:20.

[Dutchy]

Yes, this is the 6CM Fielding campaigned throughout the '70s.
I hadn't heard it had been sold though - or the A6GCM. What about his 250F?

They were both advertised for quite some time in the monthly magazines by a firm called Laughton Investments (I think that's the correct spelling) and I recall reading somewhere that the A6GCM had gone to Italy and I also recall reading something (it might even have been here on TNF) written by the new owner of the 6CM whom I believe is in the UK. I know nothing of the CM 250F nor the Maserati-Milan.
Sorry it's rather vague

Edited by Dutchy, 06 January 2010 - 13:12.

[ndpndp]

They were both advertised for quire some time in the monthly magazines by a firm called Laughton Investments ................and I also recall reading something (it might even have been here on TNF) written by the new owner of the 6CM whom I believe is in the UK.

The 6CM post was indeed on TNF, but it (and the Laughton Inv. adverts) did not relate to 6CM 1540.
That car (1540) was last seen at the auction of Gooding & Co. at Pebble Beach in 2006. I am not sure whether it sold.

[Michael_Delaney]

The 6CM post was indeed on TNF, but it (and the Laughton Inv. adverts) did not relate to 6CM 1540.
That car (1540) was last seen at the auction of Gooding & Co. at Pebble Beach in 2006. I am not sure whether it sold.

In 2007 it was located in the USA.

MD

[Dutchy]

The 6CM post was indeed on TNF, but it (and the Laughton Inv. adverts) did not relate to 6CM 1540.
That car (1540) was last seen at the auction of Gooding & Co. at Pebble Beach in 2006. I am not sure whether it sold.

I've found the reference http://forums.autosp...hl=maserati 6CM and I was aware that Ray Fielding had two 6CMs but I incorrectly assumed that he raced only one of them, for which I apologise.

[David McKinney]

Others may correct me, but AFAIK there's no need to apologise. Fielding raced only one 6CM

[Dutchy]

Others may correct me, but AFAIK there's no need to apologise. Fielding raced only one 6CM

So presumably 1539 was his unraced spare?

[David McKinney]

I believe 1534 was his unraced spare, though 1538 may have served a similar purpose

[Dutchy]

I believe 1534 was his unraced spare, though 1538 may have served a similar purpose

So Ray Fielding had four 6CMs?

[David McKinney]

Let's see...
1534, 1538, 1540
Nope, can't get that to add up to four

[Dutchy]

Surely he had 1539 also?

According to the new owner at least

[David McKinney]

If you say so
I've already said what I believe
Several times

[ndpndp]

Ray Fielding had only two 6CMs :-

1) 1540 (which has a clear identity trail throughout its life) and
2) another 6CM which Ray Fielding re-built from the remains of John Gordon's modified 6CM. Gordon's car was itself an amalgam of at least two 6CM identities. In RF's time the car usually went by the identity "1538". It was this car which was offered for sale for a period by Laughton Investments.

Surely he had 1539 also?
According to the new owner at least

Owners (particularly new owners) are not always the most knowledgeable on such matters........

[David McKinney]

I bow to ndpndp's greater knowledge
I suspect it might only have been parts of 1534 that Fielding had, not the complete car

Edited by David McKinney, 11 January 2010 - 22:37.

[Dutchy]

Thankyou ndndp for the explanation

[Racer.Demon]

I suspect this the most appropriate thread for a query on behalf of a friend. Would the experts please take a look at this car:

http://www.competiti...maserati6cm.php

Does anyone know its chassis number? It says it's a 6CM but it looks like a 4CL - so what's that post-1939 body doing on a '38 car? Or did this happen in Argentina - where obviously a lot used to happen to these kinds of cars.

[David McKinney]

A few late-runs 6CMs looked like that

Not sure which this is - several ex-Argentine Maserati 1500s eventually found their way to England

[Racer.Demon]

Thanks, David. The car has very similar looks to this one, which is now taken offline, but is still in Google's cache:

http://209.85.229.13...N...=clnk&gl=nl

Of could it be the same? And if so, does the Milan/Ruggeri link suggest anything about its identity?

[Dutchy]

Thanks, David. The car has very similar looks to this one, which is now taken offline, but is still in Google's cache:

http://209.85.229.13...N...=clnk&gl=nl

Of could it be the same? And if so, does the Milan/Ruggeri link suggest anything about its identity?

I suspect I'm not thinking of the same car but I recall a very similar one appearing once or twice in VSCC events in the 1980s with Richard Loveday. From memory I don't think he had much joy with it.

Edited by Dutchy, 11 March 2010 - 16:46.

[Racer.Demon]

I've now found out it's the same car, thought to be chassis number 1561, which once was indeed Arialdo Ruggeri's car.