23 replies to this topic

[r12g]

I am interested in finding out rally results/entries for my Renault 12 Gordini which was rallied from 1973 to 1985. I know it took part in the 1978 Welsh International Rally and believe it also took part in the Circuit of Ireland Rally of that year also. The driver was Colin Symonds, and the co-driver was Allen Jones. Any other history would be of great interest to me. Or if you know how to go about finding out old rally results that would help me in my search.

[RS2000]

Was it originally brought in by John Price? He rallied one but don't ask me when. Marek(?) Gierowski(?) is another name that rings bells with an R12(?) in UK.
UK rally entry lists are a very hit and miss subject. It's usually a matter of having to find someone who has them. There's no truly comprehensive record...yet. 1978 is not a year I can help with as I was 3000+ miles away from UK rallies for most of it.

[Les Dalton]

Hi R12G,
Yes, Colin Symonds and Alan Jones did very well on the 1978 Welsh International, they finished 28th and 2nd in class ( and this was to Russell Brooks and John Brown in the Escort, who finished 5th overall) so that was a superb result.
I was driving the Army Austin 1800, and after a promising start, the crankshaft oil seal broke and let oil seap onto the clutch plates, however, we SOLDIERED on and eventually in 51st position.
I cant find the Renault in any other Welsh rallies, however, Mactaff will have all the details on these events.
I also noticed that Colin competed in another rally that I was in, the 1976 RAC rally, but this time driving the Dealer team Skoda 120S.
Regards from France,
Les Dalton.

[RCH]

Got a feeling, may well be wrong, that Triple C tested an R12 Gordini some time in the mid '70's. The car was rallying in the UK and the name Marek Gierowski springs to mind. Got a feeling they tested a Fiat 124 Abarth in the same issue.
Unfortunately I sold off all my old CCC's years ago.

[r12g]

Was it originally brought in by John Price? He rallied one but don't ask me when. Marek(?) Gierowski(?) is another name that rings bells with an R12(?) in UK.
UK rally entry lists are a very hit and miss subject. It's usually a matter of having to find someone who has them. There's no truly comprehensive record...yet. 1978 is not a year I can help with as I was 3000+ miles away from UK rallies for most of it.

First recorded keeper is Marek Baravski - 1972 (On the log book) It is possibly a spelling mistake and he could have been Marek Gierowski who was featured in 1972 Car & Car Conversions & 1974 Autosport magazines.

[r12g]

Got a feeling, may well be wrong, that Triple C tested an R12 Gordini some time in the mid '70's. The car was rallying in the UK and the name Marek Gierowski springs to mind. Got a feeling they tested a Fiat 124 Abarth in the same issue.
Unfortunately I sold off all my old CCC's years ago.

Yes I have managed to obtain a CCC from 1972 & Autosport Magazine from 1978 where one is definitely my car, and the other possibly because it was still on the red plates which I have since been told the Frech use. It's nice that someone remembers it, as I have owned it for 25 years.

[r12g]

Hi R12G,
Yes, Colin Symonds and Alan Jones did very well on the 1978 Welsh International, they finished 28th and 2nd in class ( and this was to Russell Brooks and John Brown in the Escort, who finished 5th overall) so that was a superb result.
I was driving the Army Austin 1800, and after a promising start, the crankshaft oil seal broke and let oil seap onto the clutch plates, however, we SOLDIERED on and eventually in 51st position.
I cant find the Renault in any other Welsh rallies, however, Mactaff will have all the details on these events.
I also noticed that Colin competed in another rally that I was in, the 1976 RAC rally, but this time driving the Dealer team Skoda 120S.
Regards from France,
Les Dalton.

Les, Thanks for this information, up until your entry I only knew that it took place in the rally. To know where it came and that you know this definitely fills in a bit more of my cars history.
Graham.

[RS2000]

Marek Gierowski was no.27 on the 73 Welsh. Co-driver J. Taylor, described only as "Renault Gordini" (there was the odd R8 still around in UK then), (French) reg.no. 5957TT75 (is that Dieppe - maybe Les knows? - 75 sounds familiar from works Alpines) M.Gierowski's address was given as 32 Riffel Road, London NW2.

Edited by RS2000, 03 January 2010 - 18:38.

[Richard Young]

Marek Gierowski was no.27 on the 73 Welsh. Co-driver J. Taylor, described only as "Renault Gordini" (there was the odd R8 still around in UK then), (French) reg.no. 5957TT75 (is that Dieppe - maybe Les knows? - 75 sounds familiar from works Alpines) M.Gierowski's address was given as 32 Riffel Road, London NW2.

As a former resident of 32 Riffel Road, I can confirm that Marek Gierowski lived there some time previously. I think the landlord was Chris Coburn of (early) DTV fame. At that time (1973-ish) I seem to remember being told that M.Baranski was Marek's 'real' name.......
And I seem to remember him doing the Donegal International at around that time in a blue R12 Gordini.
Maybe the illustrious Mr Gallagher can cast further light ?

[Les Dalton]

Bon Jour r12g,
I have looked through all my rally programmes for the RAC, Scottish and Welsh rallies diring the late seventees, and I can find no more mention of a Renault 12 Gordini.
What you could do, (if you have not already!!!) is contact the Renault club UK, Robert Doran is the R12 Gordini Register guy, his Email is speedwayrob@hotmail.com.
I see you live in Northampton and so you could ring hin on 01395 271116.
I am sure that these guys will have quite a bit of history in their archives.
Best Wishes,
Les.

Edited by Les Dalton, 04 January 2010 - 16:11.

[mikeC]

I think the 75 suffix on the French registration makes it a Paris number, if that helps any

[RS2000]

I think the 75 suffix on the French registration makes it a Paris number, if that helps any

Thanks for that. It looks as if the works cars carried 76 numbers (which I assume is Dieppe area), not 75. I was close! - just trying to check if it looked like an ex-works car.

[r12g]

As a former resident of 32 Riffel Road, I can confirm that Marek Gierowski lived there some time previously. I think the landlord was Chris Coburn of (early) DTV fame. At that time (1973-ish) I seem to remember being told that M.Baranski was Marek's 'real' name.......
And I seem to remember him doing the Donegal International at around that time in a blue R12 Gordini.
Maybe the illustrious Mr Gallagher can cast further light ?

After over 24 years of owning the car it's finally all coming together. You have confirmed that my car was the one featured in the August 1972 CCC magazine and January 1974 Autosport magazine. Both cars being said to be owned by Marek Gierowski. Now with your information I have checked my log book and am delighted to confirm that as you said Marek Baranski did register his address on the log book as 32 Riffel Road London NW2. The Chris Coburn connection is confirmed in the Autosport mag where it states that Marek fitted a "really heavy" sump guard from a Vauxhall Viva - a legacy from the days when he was with Chris Coburn in pre-DTV times". It states in CCC and Autosport mags that the car was imported and prepared by Geoff Schofield of Yeading Motors, Northolt, London.
P.S. Can you tell me who Mr Gallagher is?
Thanks again. Graham.

One further question to anyone who can help - In the August 1972 CCC it states that Marek's first international rally was scheduled to be The Manx. Any information on this would be very interesting.

Edited by r12g, 04 January 2010 - 20:44.

[RS2000]

Regarding the Coburn connection, DTV as entrant was in 73 "Coburn Improvements, Banbury". Chris Coburn was entered on the 73 Welsh in a DTV Firenza, 10 places behind Marek Gierowski. That Firenza carried the reg no XFC455K, which was also to be found around the same time on the George Hill DTV Firenza in the Motoring News (road) Rally Championship....and by August 73 on a lightweight Viva for George Hill on MN rounds.
I see by the 73 RAC Marek Gierowski was in a 911RS - although not with a very good seeding.
In answer to your Mr Gallagher question, Fred Gallagher posts here.

[Les Dalton]

Hi r12g,
I dont have any info pertaining to the Manx rally, but I know that Marek competed in the 1974 RAC International rally with David West co-driving,and they were car No 63, in a Porsche 911.
Other early rallies showing a Renault R12 Gordini were as follows:
1973 RAC Car No 122 Keith Leckie & Peter Robinson R12G
1974 RAC Car No 95 Andra Gahinet ???? R12G (this was a French registered car, maybe Marek saw it on the rally and bought it???)
1974 RAC Car No 126 Per Gunnar Nygaard ???? R12G Norwegian Registered.
1975 RAC Car No 164 Per Gunnar Nygaard ???? R12G.
Kind Regards,
Les.

[RS2000]

Forum Auto has an entire thread devoted to R12 Gordinis:
http://www.forum-aut...sujet378133.htm

[r12g]

Marek Gierowski was no.27 on the 73 Welsh. Co-driver J. Taylor, described only as "Renault Gordini" (there was the odd R8 still around in UK then), (French) reg.no. 5957TT75 (is that Dieppe - maybe Les knows? - 75 sounds familiar from works Alpines) M.Gierowski's address was given as 32 Riffel Road, London NW2.

This is the french reg. for the r12g shown in the 1972 ccc mag. which I now believe to be my car pior to it being given the uk reg. of PLH189L. Do you know where he finished in this
event, and other sources of rally resaults that I can check out. PS thank for your imformation so far.

[RS2000]

Sorry, I never kept results, although I did the event (and being on the entry list is not a guarantee he actually started). He wasn't on the 73 Scottish (Nick Wa, Les Dalton and I from on here were). He was in a different car for the RAC, which only leaves the Manx of the UK Internationals after the Welsh. Several National status events were in the RAC British Championship then (look for Burmah, Dukeries, Lindisfarne in the timeframe above).
Darren Galpin (from here)'s site has some useful results but not those. There really is no consolidated source yet for British rally results.

Edited by RS2000, 14 January 2010 - 21:47.

[cote d'azur]

Hi r12g,
I dont have any info pertaining to the Manx rally, but I know that Marek competed in the 1974 RAC International rally with David West co-driving,and they were car No 63, in a Porsche 911.
Other early rallies showing a Renault R12 Gordini were as follows:
1973 RAC Car No 122 Keith Leckie & Peter Robinson R12G
1974 RAC Car No 95 Andra Gahinet ???? R12G (this was a French registered car, maybe Marek saw it on the rally and bought it???)
1974 RAC Car No 126 Per Gunnar Nygaard ???? R12G Norwegian Registered.
1975 RAC Car No 164 Per Gunnar Nygaard ???? R12G.
Kind Regards,
Les.

The VERY first outing for a Renault 12 Gordini was in fact the Welsh Rally in 1972 (car no 79). This was the car that Keith Leckie had imported and had a French reg of 4607 TT75.
My recollection was that it was quite quick, handled well but lacked grunt every time we were going uphill. Not sure of any subsequent history/sale following RAC where the car gave us quite a lot of problems as it began to break in half... Happy days!
Peter Robinson

[McTaff]

Re. the Welsh in '78, he finished 28th overall with Andy Jones.

He appears to have competed in '76 & '77 in a Skoda 120S with D. Wynter.

[dgwest7]

I was Marek Gieroewski's (nee Baranski) co-driver, first in DTV with Viva GTs. then the Renault 12 Gordini (a very special car), then a variety of similarly special Porsches, one of which was frazzled to a cinder on the '73 Donegal.
With the Renault, I particularly recall the 1972 Manx and Donegal events . I first drove the Renault down the main street of Milford, before the '72 nDonegal and realised why Marek was constantly doing arm and hand exercises. I almost bounced off alternate walls as I change gear. I have a funny story about the Donegal event if you can work out how to contact me privately.

Best regards

Dave West

[chatnoir]

I'll address this to Dave West, Hi Dave, this is Estelle, I'm trying to locate Marek to see if he has some old photos of the Renault 12 Gordini, for a book being prepared by Brian Purves, who does classic car conversions, but is writing a fairly comprehensive tome on rallying.  Chris Coburn has asked me to help with the proof reading etc., but Brian is looking for photos of Marek or his car to include.  The last I heard he'd gone to the States, and I've not been able to unearth anything.  The only photo I still have is a partial of the Gordini parked by the Eiffel Tower before we brought it back to UK.  Any advice welcome!

[Sonofgeoff]

I am interested in finding out rally results/entries for my Renault 12 Gordini which was rallied from 1973 to 1985. I know it took part in the 1978 Welsh International Rally and believe it also took part in the Circuit of Ireland Rally of that year also. The driver was Colin Symonds, and the co-driver was Allen Jones. Any other history would be of great interest to me. Or if you know how to go about finding out old rally results that would help me in my search.

[Sonofgeoff]

Just found this thread , my dad is Geoff Schofield and prepared the DTV vivas , a 911 that Marek drove on the 1973 RAC , and your 12 Gordini . If you can PM me I can get you in touch with the old man if you're interested