32 replies to this topic

[Mungo Fangio of the Year]

No wonder that James Hunt type pure racer like Kimi got LOT later tired of it also!

http://www.mtv3.fi/u...2010/01/1030439

Edited by Mungo Fangio of the Year, 10 January 2010 - 03:45.

[ff1600]

I am a Masell fan. But 90% of his comments always seen to deal with himself in some way. Nigel get over the screwing you took 15 years ago.

[Lazarus II]

No wonder that James Hunt type pure racer like Kimi got LOT later tired of it also!

http://www.mtv3.fi/u...2010/01/1030439

anyone want to translate to English please?

[nordschleife]

anyone want to translate to English please?

Masell means Mansell in English.

[Lazarus II]

Masell means Mansell in English.

Masell is Finnish for Mansell ......well, ok then

[nordschleife]

Actually, Masell is used only in the dialect known as "I shouldn't type when I'm drunk".

[potmotr]

Mansell's departure is thrashed out here quite a bit.

http://forums.autosp...l=mansell prost

[cheapracer]

Actually, Masell is used only in the dialect known as "I shouldn't type when I'm drunk".

Many countries have different spelling and prononciations for names that they may noy be able to pronounce or have some other meaning.

[screamingV16]

If recall correctly Mansell (or Masell, whoever he is) quit due to being massively off Mika Hakkinen's pace and struggling to fit into and drive the doggish McLaren of the time, a position he was in because it was the only F1 seat in a top team avaialable to him.

[cheapracer]

If recall correctly Mansell (or Masell, whoever he is) quit due to being massively off Mika Hakkinen's pace and struggling to fit into and drive the doggish McLaren of the time, a position he was in because it was the only F1 seat in a top team avaialable to him.

Keep dreaming, the race before he was on pole in front of Schumacher and Hill and won the race (in a car that he fitted into!). He fully believed that Williams would take his standing option and left his run too late for many other teams who wanted him.

[potmotr]

A recent edition of Motorsport magazine has a long interview with Mansell where he details the end of his F1 career.

He says that he pushed Williams for a 1995 contract, but they took Coulthard instead.

He signed for McLaren, then quit, but was contractually bound to them for a much longer period.

[screamingV16]

Keep dreaming, the race before he was on pole in front of Schumacher and Hill and won the race (in a car that he fitted into!). He fully believed that Williams would take his standing option and left his run too late for many other teams who wanted him.

Not sure what my dreams have to do with it? The race before Barcelona 1995, that was Imola 1995! He took pole at the last race of 1994 (in a different car to Schumacher) if that's what you're refering to. At the start Schumacher and Hill drove off and Mansell made a couple of mistakes and dropped back. Schumacher and Hill had almost lapped him at the time of their clash. At the end of 1994 Frank Williams had an option on him, but didn't want him taking Coulthard instead.

Mansell still wanted F1 and with the help of Bernie Ecclestone and sponsors got a seat at McLaren. I assume you are claiming he wasn't off Hakkinene's pace and that he fitted perfectly into the Mclaren?

Edited by screamingV16, 10 January 2010 - 11:31.

[Buckethead]

Masell is just a typo

[cheapracer]

Mansell still wanted F1 and with the help of Bernie Ecclestone and sponsors got a seat at McLaren. I assume you are claiming he wasn't off Hakkinene's pace and that he fitted perfectly into the Mclaren?

Mansell came back for the last 3 races of 1994 and got faster in each getting used to them again, as expected for the first race, good race qualifying 4th in the second with a good race against Alesi for 3rd place and the forementioned Australian race.

The move to McLaren was doomed from the start and isn't an indication of his driving skills although an indication of his stomache size!

[Atreiu]

Being oversized and slow is no good for politics.

[screamingV16]

Mansell came back for the last 3 races of 1994 and got faster in each getting used to them again, as expected for the first race, good race qualifying 4th in the second with a good race against Alesi for 3rd place and the forementioned Australian race.

The move to McLaren was doomed from the start and isn't an indication of his driving skills although an indication of his stomache size!

Yet even in that last race of 1994 he was almost a lap behind Hill (in the same car) and Schumacher when they crashed out at not even half distance, or do you dispute that? Alesi was driving a somewhat slower Ferrari in Japan and still finished ahead of Mansell who finished almost a minute behind Hill in the same car.

I'm not trying to bash Mansell, he was a top driver of his time, but he does like to massage his ego from time to time and rewrite history to suit himself. It was his fault that he was unfit and his stomach was too big, he should have had a big wake call in 94 to the pace and fitness of drivers like Hill and Schumacher over a race distance. It was not as though he his height would have caused him problems fitting in a car either, his team mates Hill being 6 ft and Hakkinen 5, 11.

Edited by screamingV16, 10 January 2010 - 12:30.

[DOF_power]

From google translate:


/
Mansell: Age is no barrier to Schumille



Former F1 champion Nigel Mansell does not believe in age to pose any problems for next season to return to a formula for lines of Michael Schumacher.

The recently completed 41 years Schumacher next season, the series is the oldest driver. The 1992 world champion, drove the Williams team Mansell does not see age as Schumille harm.

- I do not think the age of a problem. We should not forget that the self-kolkuttelin already kympin four doors when driving champion, -92. I would be able to continue the very few more years, but the political game was too hard, "said Mansell Auto Sportille.

Mansell believes team manager Ross Brawn and Schumin reach the Mercedes Grand Prix, has once again top speed.

- He will again be working with Ross Brawn and in a team, which has just won the drivers 'and manufacturers' World Championship. If the package is in order, so the motivation with no problems, assured Mansell.

Mansell Schumin sees the return of the other way, as a major boost for the F1 series.

- Ross is such a clever guy, that Michael has certainly either one of the best cars in the series. He only has to win, which is good for Formula ykkösille, Mansell went on.

(MTV3)
/

[alfista]

Nige' was a great driver and earned one world title for his driving. But summing up all I have read about him, if there were titles for whining he could be a multiple champion. And he still tries.

[potmotr]

Being oversized and slow is no good for politics.

I don't think that's true.

Mansell was never slow at any point in his career.

He hated that McLaren, and can you blame him?

It was the worst car the team had designed since Ron Dennis took over.

As for oversized, even Mika Hakkinen found the car a tight fit, and he had the hips of a snake at the time.

[marcotulio27]

Yet even in that last race of 1994 he was almost a lap behind Hill (in the same car) and Schumacher when they crashed out at not even half distance, or do you dispute that? Alesi was driving a somewhat slower Ferrari in Japan and still finished ahead of Mansell who finished almost a minute behind Hill in the same car.

I'm not trying to bash Mansell, he was a top driver of his time, but he does like to massage his ego from time to time and rewrite history to suit himself. It was his fault that he was unfit and his stomach was too big, he should have had a big wake call in 94 to the pace and fitness of drivers like Hill and Schumacher over a race distance. It was not as though he his height would have caused him problems fitting in a car either, his team mates Hill being 6 ft and Hakkinen 5, 11.

lets gets FACTS straight (hey screamingV16 enjoy you´ll get educated in the proccess):


From F1 OFFICIAL website:

"History:
No driver fought harder to get into Formula One racing and few fought harder when they got there. Hugely determined, immensely aggressive and spectacularly daring, he was one of the most exciting drivers ever. With his win or bust approach - 31 wins and 32 crashes - he became the most successful British driver and ranks third in the world in fastest laps, fourth in wins and fifth in poles. With the Union Jack on his helmet and a chip on his shoulder, he was both quick and controversial. His awkward personality made him some enemies, his heroic performances made him millions of fans. Nigel Mansell was a driven man and it showed."
http://www.formula1....all_of_fame/43/


Just remind that he stopped racing 15 years ago, and if you just put the bizzarre Schumacher scenario aside (no real competition, all the suspicious moves on the track, his slav... errr teammates who were treated not so nicely as him by Benetton and Ferrari hehe, etc) Mansell would figure 3rd in ALL TIME F1 WINNERS behind "the" master Prost and God Senna. Its quite a reasonable achievement don´t you think?


On the topic of his return in 94/5, LETS CHECK:


From Wikipedia:

"Return to Formula One:
In 1994 Mansell made a Formula One comeback. After the untimely death of Ayrton Senna, he returned to Formula One with Williams replacing rookie David Coulthard for the French Grand Prix and the last three races of the season. Mansell was paid approximately £900,000 per race, compared to Williams' lead driver at the time, Damon Hill being paid £300,000 for the entire season.[17] Mansell's return was helped by Bernie Ecclestone helping unravel his contracts in the United States. It was important for F1 to have a world champion driving that season and they needed Mansell. Mansell wasn't as quick as Damon Hill in race trim but signs that his speed were coming back were evident in Japan during a fantastic battle with the Ferrari of Jean Alesi. Mansell took his final Grand Prix victory, the Australian Grand Prix, which was the final race of the season having out-qualified the two contenders for the title, Damon Hill and Michael Schumacher, in the process. The plan was initially for Mansell to protect Hill from Schumacher, but both drivers passed him at the start and eventually collided, handing Schumacher his 1st World Title.
Williams had an option on Mansell's services for 1995 which Mansell was sure they would take. However, Williams opted for youth over experience and hired Coulthard.

1995: McLaren
Mansell was quick again and on the back of winning two titles, he was still hot property. After losing the Williams seat to David Coulthard, Mansell signed to drive for McLaren in 1995.
It was well documented that Mansell and Ron Dennis never saw eye to eye but with McLaren's sponsors wanting a world champion, Dennis had only two options, the second option, Schumacher, was already taken which left Mansell. Media speculated from the start that they wouldn't last together due to the two contrasting personalities.
The season didn't start at all well, Mansell couldn't fit into the car and wasn't able to race until Imola where he ran in the middle of the field a good way off the pace of his team-mate Mika Häkkinen. A second race came with a similar outcome but outpaced and frustrated with his car's handling characteristics, he chose to retire after just two races with the team. Mansell cited the decision to retire as him not wanting to make up the numbers and with no hope of the McLaren being competitive."
http://en.wikipedia....i/Nigel_Mansell


LETS GET A CLOSER LOOK: (Mind we don´t live in 1994 anymore, **** the press bless Google bless Youtube!)

BRANDS HATCH INTERVIEW, VERY NICE VIDEO:


BRANDS HATCH TESTING FOOTAGE, VERY VERY RICH, INCREDIBLE V10 SOUNDS:


From this video you can see he could fit very well inside the FW16. His problem @ McLaren was not the size of his stomach as some asshead said on a post before, but the size of his hips. A few here will remember what Nigel asked Frank when he returned to Williams from Ferrari after the 90 season. It was something in the lines of "Tell Patrick to make it fast. AND comfortable!". We was (is) a big guy, and that is a DISADVANTAGE specially over guys like Prost. Even you screamingV16 can figure that out. But I don´t know if I would bet on that...


GP FRANCE NEVERS MAGNY COURS 1994-07-03

So Mansell was back in the car, and immediately topped the timecharts at the last FP session (saturday morning) heading to qualification full of confidence. During the 1 hour session, he was on the pole for like 3 or 4 times. I still remember what Galvao Bueno my brazilian fellow hehehehe said on TV when the session was closing to the last 15 min.: "And here comes Mansell. He is back on the track... And back on the pole!"
Anyway Damon was the polesitter, a lap that, as he said himself at the time, was his best qualification effort ever (I clearly remember he crossing the line almost out of control). And for THE FIRST TIME IN THE SEASON SCHUMACHER WAS OUT OF THE FRONT ROW!

Quali: 1994-07-02
0 Damon Hill Williams FW16 1 1'16.282
2 Nigel Mansell Williams FW16 2 1'16.359
5 Michael Schumacher Benetton B194 3 1'16.707

During the race Nigel was getting used to the car, eventualy retiring with gearbox failure. Still his best lap was .5 shy of Damon´s. Not bad at all.


To be really true to history, that was Mansell´s comeback. Just for one race. Some time latter in the season it was announced he was returning again (so if you´re really picky you can count 4 F1 returns for him hehehe) for the last tree races after the 1994 Indycar finale.

I´ll not bother about Jerez de la Frontera, because he was really tired from racing in America. He had a reasonable season there until Indianapolis, when Dennis Vitolo climbed his Lola ending Nigel´s hopes of winning at the SpeedWay:


After that his car couldn´t keep with the trio of dominating Penskes of Tracy, Fittipaldi and Unser Jr.
During Jerez F1 race he just spun off the track ending his race on the spot, deep in the gravel:


Then there´s Japan, which I believe was one of his finest actuations EVER against Alesi in a very wet Suzuka. Just putting togheter "Sukuza" and "wet" in the same sentence is like "WOW".

Go check yourself:


Just look at the spray, the very poor lighting conditions!
I enjoy this even more than the Monaco 92 epic with Senna. Well, its a tie. During the transmission they missed when Mansell could finally got past Alesi, at the last lap, but he was still classified 4th because the race had to be interrupted, times must be added from the "2 races" because that was this way by that time. You still can see what a chaos that GP was from this VERY NICE reporting from Globo (in portuguese but it really doesn´t matter ´because YOU CAN GET THE PICTURE). Also the pass on Alesi was shown, at 1:47. Only 9 drivers classified they could barely keep on the tarmac! Also notice the classic Shummy Chop at the start:


FIA REVIEW 10 MIN:



Then comes Mansell´s final win, as well as Adelaide´s last Gran Prix:

GP AUSTRALIA ADELAIDE 1994-11-13

Well, more relaxed and used to the car, Mansell put it on pole position. In the process he gives one of the most amazing displays of car control I ever witnessed, he spun on purpose to avoid a heads on collision during practice if I´m not mistaken. Also during qualifying Schumacher was trying so badly beat El Lione that he crashed heavily damaging the tube of his car. He had to race his BACKUP CAR and the results we all know very well. The infamous manouver on Damon. And Mansell won over Berger and Brundle, which I think will be for a long time the oldest combined podium of modern F1, Mansell himself was 41. He´ll still hold this record at least until next year, because the che... errr the German can only tie with him this season, maybe if he can win a race next season then he´ll surpass Nigel, and at the same time keep on chasing Barrichello´s race starts which I tend to believe will be around 350 by the time hahaha.
There´s one record he isn´t getting tough, Mansell scored 14 poles out of 16 rounds during his champinship season. That will be VERY hard to anyone to emulate, ever.

Quali: 1994-11-12

2 Nigel Mansell Williams FW16B 1 1'16.179
5 Michael Schumacher Benetton B194 2 1'16.197
0 Damon Hill Williams FW16B 3 1'16.830

Final results:
# drivers car qualifying classification L fastest
2 Nigel Mansell Williams FW16B 1 1'16.179 1 1:47'51.480 81 1'18.167 (52)
28 Gerhard Berger Ferrari 412T1B 11 1'18.070 2 1:47'53.991 81 1'18.094 (48)
8 Martin Brundle McLaren MP4-9 9 1'17.950 3 1:48'43.967 81 1'18.819 (76)

Source from stats:
http://f1-facts.com/...s/race/1994/101


So if you ask me if Nigel fared well against a maturing Damon (who was Mansell´s tester and a teammate to both Prost and Senna, should´ve learned a little thing or two huh?) and a flourishing (hehehe) Schumacher, I´d say yes he did. They got 8 titles in between them...

I´ll not waste my time on the McLaren situation, it was doomed from the beginning. I´ll rather focus on his very last quali effort. This should be a clear answer for those who don´t believe he had the speed anymore. His teammate was a certain Mika Hakkinen, who the previous year replaced Andretti and "blew Senna away" with his massive speed, beating the 3X WDC in their first encounter as teammates. Yep, the same Hakkinen who latter become himself 2X WDC and a sinonymous to Dennis and McLaren. Yet Mansell was trashed by him, sure, by a WHOOPING 0.094sec... Go figure! They aligned 9th and 10th, 1.5sec away from Schumacher. I personally tend to believe the car was a DOG. Feel free to spin it as much as you want to fit your agenda.

95 Montmelo quali:

8 Mika Häkkinen McLaren MP4-10 9 1'23.833
7 Nigel Mansell McLaren MP4-10B 10 1'23.927

Mansell´s last qualifying lap:



Considering the results Coulthard got against Hakkinen, one can say it was a very poor decision by Frank put Coulthard in the 95 car rather than Nigel. THAT WOULD BE JUST AMAZING and Schumacher would have 6 titles today, if not less.

So screamingV16, get some perspective on things before spreading this bullshit all over the place OK?

I´ll finish with the same article from the OFFICIAL F1 website:

"...Mansell dominated, winning nine of the 16 races in his Williams-Renault FW14B, but shortly after he was declared the 1992 World Champion he again announced his retirement. His grievances with Williams included a dispute over money and anger that the despised Prost might be his 1993 team mate. Williams offered a last-minute incentive of whatever conditions he wanted but Mansell stalked off to IndyCar racing in America, where he immediately dominated, even on the unfamiliar high speed ovals, and became the 1993 IndyCar champion.

In 1994 Williams persuaded him to return for the final four races, the last of which, in Australia, he won in stunning fashion from pole position. The next year he raced twice for McLaren but decided the car wasn't up to his speed. And so, after 187 hard races in 15 tumultuous seasons, 41-year-old Nigel Mansell left Formula One racing for good.

He retired a rich man, operating several business enterprises, including a Ferrari dealership and a golf and country club (he played golf to a professional standard) and lived the good life with his wife Rosanne and their three children.

"I had my fair share of heartaches and disappointments," he said of his career, "but I also got a lot of satisfaction. I only ever drove as hard as I knew how."


EDIT: Appearance

Edited by Buttoneer, 10 January 2010 - 21:59.

[marcotulio27]

Not sure what my dreams have to do with it? The race before Barcelona 1995, that was Imola 1995! He took pole at the last race of 1994 (in a different car to Schumacher) if that's what you're refering to. At the start Schumacher and Hill drove off and Mansell made a couple of mistakes and dropped back. Schumacher and Hill had almost lapped him at the time of their clash. At the end of 1994 Frank Williams had an option on him, but didn't want him taking Coulthard instead.

Mansell still wanted F1 and with the help of Bernie Ecclestone and sponsors got a seat at McLaren. I assume you are claiming he wasn't off Hakkinene's pace and that he fitted perfectly into the Mclaren?

Could someone explain me who are Hakkinene and Masell?

[Risil]

Didn't Mark Blundell also have severe problems fitting into the cockpit of the 1995 Mclaren? He raced the one Mansell refused to, but I think with severe discomfort and possibly bruising. He was a fairly hefty guy even then, but I wouldn't say out of shape. He won only two fewer Indycar races than Mansell did; they were both very talented drivers, not overweight and slow ones.

Mansell wasn't in the Mclaren-Mercedes partnership as a long-haul project that would eventually bear fruit, any more than Al Unser, Sr was with the Porsche Indycar project. He was a World Champion, and had demonstrated at the end of 1994 that he hadn't lost any of his pace. You can forgive him for only wanting to drive a car with a chance of winning.

[sephiroth]

<snipped for readability>

Mansell was a good racer but he left because he couldn't compete. Its understandable that he would do so he really had nothing left to prove.

But Mansell was never in the same league as Schumacher or Prost.

[marcotulio27]

Being oversized and slow is no good for politics.

Yeah nice try...
Mansell is actually so fast, so fast that the only time he raced again Fernando Alonso in F1, he won by flying over him.

[marcotulio27]

Mansell was a good racer but he left because he couldn't compete. Its understandable that he would do so he really had nothing left to prove.

But Mansell was never in the same league as Schumacher or Prost.

Except that he beat them both a bunch of times, among others like Senna, Piquet, Rosberg, Lauda...

[screamingV16]

Do you know it was raining right? Spray and poor lighting conditions. And if I´m not very mistaken, Alesi had a big powerful and torquey V12 behind his butt. How do you know his car was slower for the conditions?

Yes I did! I got up in the early hours to watch the race live at the time, and I watched the whole 94 season and qualifying sessions as it happened. You do realise that as torquey as the V12 was, the Renault V10 in 1994 was far superior in terms of both drivability (important in the wet) and reliability and was considered the best engine at the time. In the wet most engines would have more torque than can be deployed (TC had been banned at the time). The best Ferrari in that race was Alesi (always considered good in the wet) in 3rd, the other Williams in that race (Hill's) finished a minute ahead of Mansell's. That years Ferrari took 1 win to the 7 wins of the Williams and 8 of Benneton.

I think you're missing the point. At no time have I stated Mansell was crap, just that he struggled to match the race pace of Hill on his return and that of Hakkinen in 95, although he could still pull out some fast laps in qualy.

Edited by screamingV16, 10 January 2010 - 18:31.

[marcotulio27]

Yes I did! I got up in the early hours to watch the race live at the time, and I watched the whole 94 season and qualifying sessions as it happened. You do realise that as torquey as the V12 was, the Renault V10 in 1994 was far superior in terms of both drivability (important in the wet) and reliability and was considered the best engine at the time. In the wet most engines would have more torque than can be deployed (TC had been banned at the time). The best Ferrari in that race was Alesi (always considered good in the wet) in 3rd, the other Williams in that race (Hill's) finished a minute ahead of Mansell's. That years Ferrari took 1 win to the 7 wins of the Williams and 8 of Benneton.

I think you're missing the point. At no time have I stated Mansell was crap, just that he struggled to match the race pace of Hill on his return and that of Hakkinen in 95, although he could still pull out some fast laps in qualy.

Thats OK I can totally respect your view, I´m not saying he could match the pace of Hill or Schumacher over a race distance YET, he barely tested. That said, he was almost one minute behind his teammate Hill that afternoon in Japan exactly because Hill was not fighting behind Alesi, do you concur?
As for the driveability for the V12 in the wet, seemed pretty good to me, specially when you consider that in extreme conditions you can take nothing for face value, you can´t say that the best car over the season is always the best car on the track. Thats how you explain Force India this year or Senna with the Lotus @ 84 Monaco GP. Of course in 94 we don´t have "chassis flexing", but you can get my point.
Just watch the video and see what I´m talking about:



Anyway, he could still drive an F1 car in anger huh?

After that race in Japan, Mansell said he was fighting Alesi driving blindly, just by listening to the peculiar sounds that Jean´s V12 was making. And Jean just said: "The guy is mad".

http://www.answers.c...c/nigel-mansell

[Levike]

What's all this stuff about Mansell ? Fat ? Slow ? How on earth...

That guy was super fast and super brave, i saw him race from 85 onwards.......
Whiner ? - Yes
Fat ? - Maybe ( ...personal preferences...nothing to do with racing anyway... for me his titties were way to small and his hair was not blonde so......)
Moustache ? - Definitely
Slow ? - Are you crazy people ??

[werks prototype]

What's all this stuff about Mansell ? Fat ? Slow ? How on earth...

That guy was super fast and super brave, i saw him race from 85 onwards.......
Whiner ? - Yes
Fat ? - Maybe ( ...personal preferences...nothing to do with racing anyway... for me his titties were way to small and his hair was not blonde so......)
Moustache ? - Definitely
Slow ? - Are you crazy people ??

Mansells titties???????? I'm now starting to view F1 in a whole new light.

[Levike]

Mansells titties???????? I'm now starting to view F1 in a whole new light.

Feel free to open the door with a view to a new dimension...
I was just trying to remember the others that this all " fat " thing has nothing to do with racing.
At least Nigel if he were an active F1 driver nowadays could eliminate the whole field of primadonnas in a fist-fight after some nasty accident...

[Fortymark]

Anyway, he could still drive an F1 car in anger huh?

After that race in Japan, Mansell said he was fighting Alesi driving blindly, just by listening to the peculiar sounds that Jean´s V12 was making. And Jean just said: "The guy is mad".

http://www.answers.c...c/nigel-mansell

Their battle is awesome
Alesi without any dirty tricks, it´s so nice to see this type of driving

[wingwalker]

Alesi - Mansell battle is fantastic although (and I'm fully aware Im going to sound like a ******** armchair expert) here I think he was doing it wrong - his best chance would be to stay behind on the long straight, take the optimal line through 130 R and then attack in the breaking zone of the chicane, with what I imagine would be significant speed advantage at the exit of 130 R. Just my 2 cents.

[marcotulio27]

Alesi - Mansell battle is fantastic although (and I'm fully aware Im going to sound like a ******** armchair expert) here I think he was doing it wrong - his best chance would be to stay behind on the long straight, take the optimal line through 130 R and then attack in the breaking zone of the chicane, with what I imagine would be significant speed advantage at the exit of 130 R. Just my 2 cents.

Hey wingwalker, your assersion is right, thats how Mansell passed Alesi on the last lap (check it out @ 1:47):


He was still classified 4th because there was a red flag, meaning the times from the two stints should be added, by today rules he should be on the podium...

Edited by marcotulio27, 11 January 2010 - 16:52.