time;pre-war
*location;close to a large metropolitan city.
*contributors; henry ford,ettore bugatti,soichiro honda,glenn curtiss.
*entrants include;a baron,a weathy banker,a young mechanic...
*the winner;a professional chauffeur.
*incidents;a crash that could have changed automotive history.
can you name where and when?
can you name this mystery race?
Started by
dbw
, Nov 14 2000 03:06
10 replies to this topic
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#2
Marcor
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Posted 14 November 2000 - 04:49
The answer is in Classic and Sportscar, June 1991.
The place: Tamagawa, the name of a river to the west of Tokyo, and in the flat river valley floor there - on common land - the authorities of the times gave permission to build an oval race track some 1.3 km to the lap, surfaced with a lick of Macadam.
It was used by cars and bikes, but only very few races were held, 4, for 4-wheelers between 1936 and 1939.
The leading drivers were cars dealers, salesmen and mechanics.
However, Count Kobayakawa ran his MG K3 (the first prototype car which he had imported from England) while Baron Mitsui of the prominent trading and banking family maintained a stable of racing cars which were driven for him by his men. His cars included two Bugattis, a Type 35B and a 35A and a 3-litre Bentley.
the incident: a bright young mechanic named Soichiro Honda made an early mark, driving his now famous Curtiss areo-engined-special - which still exists - and an American Ford-engined track car. Their low -and mid-range torque was ideal for the short, flat speedway where the Mitsui stable-entered Bugattis could never get into their stride. Mr Honda was fortunate to survive a horrendous shunt at Tamagawa in 1938 when he was locked in a battle for the lead, a backmarker moved across on him after letting the leader through, and the future manufacture's track-car somersaulted.
The war put paid to racing at Tamagawa but a few of the old warriors survived. What is more remarkable is that some concrete grandstand remains still stand beside the river - this modest Japanese Brooklands lives...
Taken from Skulduggery (Doug Nye)
I have not copied all the text but It is on page 124.
The place: Tamagawa, the name of a river to the west of Tokyo, and in the flat river valley floor there - on common land - the authorities of the times gave permission to build an oval race track some 1.3 km to the lap, surfaced with a lick of Macadam.
It was used by cars and bikes, but only very few races were held, 4, for 4-wheelers between 1936 and 1939.
The leading drivers were cars dealers, salesmen and mechanics.
However, Count Kobayakawa ran his MG K3 (the first prototype car which he had imported from England) while Baron Mitsui of the prominent trading and banking family maintained a stable of racing cars which were driven for him by his men. His cars included two Bugattis, a Type 35B and a 35A and a 3-litre Bentley.
the incident: a bright young mechanic named Soichiro Honda made an early mark, driving his now famous Curtiss areo-engined-special - which still exists - and an American Ford-engined track car. Their low -and mid-range torque was ideal for the short, flat speedway where the Mitsui stable-entered Bugattis could never get into their stride. Mr Honda was fortunate to survive a horrendous shunt at Tamagawa in 1938 when he was locked in a battle for the lead, a backmarker moved across on him after letting the leader through, and the future manufacture's track-car somersaulted.
The war put paid to racing at Tamagawa but a few of the old warriors survived. What is more remarkable is that some concrete grandstand remains still stand beside the river - this modest Japanese Brooklands lives...
Taken from Skulduggery (Doug Nye)
I have not copied all the text but It is on page 124.
#3
dbw
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Posted 14 November 2000 - 06:24
you guys are amazing!!just a few added details.....the inagural 100 lap race,1936, was won by jiro kawasaki,chauffeur for owner junkichi watanabe in a cut-down 4.5 liter invicta.the curtiss-mitchell[not driven by honda]finished second,the bentley third.[mr honda drove and crashed a 4cyl ford engined special he built himself in this same race.[source;shotaro kobayashi-super car graphic]
addendum; the curtiss-mitchell,now the prize exhibit at the honda museum,was a car a young honda worked on at a local shop.both bugatti's exist in private collections in japan.the winning 4.5 invicta languished in japan,survived the scrap drives of ww2 and was brought to the us in 1957 and again sat untouched till the late 70's when it changed hands,was restored and vintage raced till 1989 when it was sold to an avid japanese collector and returned to it's "spiritual home"[his quotes]where it now resides.
it was rescued,restored and raced in west coast vintage events by me.at it's first race at monterey, i was approached by a quiet old gentleman.he looked the car over approvingly."it's a bitch to shift"i commented.."yes,i know,"he said,"i raced one."the man; donald healey. the race....?
addendum; the curtiss-mitchell,now the prize exhibit at the honda museum,was a car a young honda worked on at a local shop.both bugatti's exist in private collections in japan.the winning 4.5 invicta languished in japan,survived the scrap drives of ww2 and was brought to the us in 1957 and again sat untouched till the late 70's when it changed hands,was restored and vintage raced till 1989 when it was sold to an avid japanese collector and returned to it's "spiritual home"[his quotes]where it now resides.
it was rescued,restored and raced in west coast vintage events by me.at it's first race at monterey, i was approached by a quiet old gentleman.he looked the car over approvingly."it's a bitch to shift"i commented.."yes,i know,"he said,"i raced one."the man; donald healey. the race....?
#4
Flicker
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Posted 14 November 2000 - 17:06
want to know more about Soichiro Honda...
I have another date of Honda's crash than Marcor - 1936... (one more info - he was 30-years-old at that time).
... at the last lap of "All Japan Speed Race"(?) after exiting from the very last corner Soichiro discovered the outsiders car blocked the way to his winning finish... yes... all looks the a bit different from what 'dbw' provided...
BTW, he was awarded for the best lap record about 120 km/h, stayed more than 10 years...
... his car was equipped with 8-cil Ford engine with compressor...
If anybody can enlighten us with more precise dates and details..?
Here is a photo of this crash:
Sorry for poor quality (may be Rayner Nyberg will provide us a better pic)
I have another date of Honda's crash than Marcor - 1936... (one more info - he was 30-years-old at that time).
... at the last lap of "All Japan Speed Race"(?) after exiting from the very last corner Soichiro discovered the outsiders car blocked the way to his winning finish... yes... all looks the a bit different from what 'dbw' provided...
BTW, he was awarded for the best lap record about 120 km/h, stayed more than 10 years...
... his car
If anybody can enlighten us with more precise dates and details..?
Here is a photo of this crash:
Sorry for poor quality (may be Rayner Nyberg will provide us a better pic)
#5
dbw
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Posted 15 November 2000 - 01:30
flicker; there's a great account of the 1936 tamagawa speed trials in the "summer-1992 supercar graphic #14" pages 67-76....lots of period photos..unfortunatly all the text is in kanji...however on page 188 is a "english summary" where i got my data....the original article was written by kobayashi-san and translated by peter nunn.kobayashi is a respected member of the international vintage automotive press as well as the head of the japan historic auto association.in personal correspondence he has verified the data i have presented...altho i have heard from other sources that the car honda crashed was a V8 this could have been confused with the curtiss aero engined special that was a c.1915 mitchell chassis powered by a curtiss OX-5 V8 aero engine[1917-18]....there were many model A's in japan at that time so a 4cyl was easily possible.as for the curtiss powered mitchell, it was constructed earlier at a shop named "art" or "art's" garage...apparently young mr. honda worked as an apprentice there during it's construction....it has been associated with him ever since.
i'm sure you could contact mr. Kobayashi at; SUPER CG ,Nigensha Publishing Co.,Ltd. 2-2 Kanda Jimbocho,Chiyodaku,Tokyo 101, Japan. Shotaro Kobayashi is the Editorial Director.
BTW..kobayashi is a bugatti owner/nutcase,a 4 cyl. riley owner,and an acknowledged expert on FWD 8 cyl. supercharged alvis's.he is also fluent in both english and american!
i'm sure you could contact mr. Kobayashi at; SUPER CG ,Nigensha Publishing Co.,Ltd. 2-2 Kanda Jimbocho,Chiyodaku,Tokyo 101, Japan. Shotaro Kobayashi is the Editorial Director.
BTW..kobayashi is a bugatti owner/nutcase,a 4 cyl. riley owner,and an acknowledged expert on FWD 8 cyl. supercharged alvis's.he is also fluent in both english and american!
#6
Dennis David
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Posted 15 November 2000 - 02:03
Marcor,
You need to get a life.;) This is really getting scary.
BTW No offence but getting in a race with that lot would scare the hell out of me also.
You need to get a life.;) This is really getting scary.
BTW No offence but getting in a race with that lot would scare the hell out of me also.
#7
Marcor
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Posted 16 November 2000 - 21:33
Taken from various Mr Honda’s bio (mostly on the web), here’s what I’ve found about the crash.
1 :
Soichiro Honda went on to build and drive racing cars himself, winning several races, but his career was cut short when he almost died during the All Japan Speed Rally of 1936. As a consolation his average speed that day (75mph) remained a Japanese race record for almost 20 years.
2 :
And also like other young auto enthusiasts around the world, he was bitten by the racing bug. Honda built and drove a race car of his own design and somewhere in my archives, I have a photo of that first Honda racer, a single-seater with high, wood-spoked wheels and a narrow body. The powerplant was reported to be a Ford of some vintage and while leading in the All Japan Speed Rally of 1936, he crashed into a slower moving competitor at 75 mph and was disabled for more than a year. It was then that he gave up his dream of becoming a race driver and concentrated on operating his fledgling business.
3 :
Soichiro Honda had just set a new lap record around Tokyo's Tama River course, and he was leading the All-Japan Speed Rally when a race car he was passing lurched across his path. Honda's own machine, a supercharged, Ford-based special he had built himself, crashed heavily, rolling over three times and tossing the driver out. The broken bones and facial lacerations he suffered would keep the 29-year-old auto repair shop owner away from his business for a year and a half. The year was 1936, and that accident marked the end of Soichiro's own race driving career, but not of his love of racing. Not by a long way.
4 :
Soichiro Honda's love of victory helped launch a small company into a racing giant. He possessed an uncanny ability to develop technology for racing and adapt it to the consumer market. At age 22, and drawing upon his skills as a mechanic, Mr. Honda developed a V-8 Curtis Wright aircraft engine to race on a Ford chassis. He took the wheel himself that year and set a Japanese speed record hitting 75 mph. Honda Racing was born.
Later that year, after an unfortunate racing accident, Mr. Honda made a promise to his family to never take the wheel of a racer again. Soichiro began to tackle racing from the development standpoint, producing some of the finest engines ever to race
5 :
In 1925 the owner Yuzo Sakakibara inspired Soichiro to build a racing car on a 1916 Mitchell chassis, with a Curtis-Wright 8-litre V-8 aircraft engine. With 100bhp at 1,400rpm it was a formidable proposition with Soichiro building most of the components including carving the wooden wheel spokes.
For oval tracks with left-hand bends Soichiro made racing cars with offset Ford engines. He tried supercharging, fitting extra cooling radiators, and hardened valve seats and was successful as riding mechanic and driver, but his career was almost cut short in the All-Japan Speed Rally of 1936 near Tokyo.
He collided with another car and was thrown out, dislocating his shoulder, breaking a wrist, and sustaining facial injuries, which left permanent scars. His brother, acting as riding mechanic, escaped with minor cuts. Their 120kph (75mph) average speed remained a Japanese race record for nearly 20 years.
6 :
He also developed a great interest in racecars, building them and racing as well. Although he won many races in his time, his racing career was put to an end in 1936 when he collided into another car and somersaulted three times. He was badly injured but survived, and has gone on to use racing as a means of testing his vehicles.
7 :
At the same time as he was newly married in 1934 and studying to perfect his piston rings, Honda was running Art Shokai and designing and building race cars which he drove to many wins.
It is worth looking at one of his successful designs to see how his thinking processes worked. Races in Japan in the 1930s were anti-clockwise. Corners were predominantly to the left. Honda designed a car using a Ford engine which he repositioned to the left hand side of the car. This changed its centre of gravity. It could take left hand turns better than other race cars.
Realising the car could now go faster than its competitors, Honda also followed aircraft engine design practice and fitted a supercharger. This race car was highly successful until Honda was involved in a serious crash in 1936 towards the end of the All-Japan speed rally in Tokyo. He set a speed record which was to remain unbeaten until the 1950s. But the crash prevented him from winning and left him with scars over his left eye which he bore the rest of his life.
8 :
Soichiro Honda had just set a new lap record around Tokyo's Tama River course, and he was leading the All-Japan Speed Rally when a race car he was passing lurched across his path. Honda's own machine, a supercharged, Ford-based special he had built himself, crashed heavily, rolling over three timnes and tossing the driver out. The broken bones and facial lacerations he suffered would keep the 29-year-old auto repair shop owner away from his business for a year and a half.
The year was 1936, and that accident marked the end of Soichiro's own race driving career, but not of his love of racing. Not by a long way.
1 :
Soichiro Honda went on to build and drive racing cars himself, winning several races, but his career was cut short when he almost died during the All Japan Speed Rally of 1936. As a consolation his average speed that day (75mph) remained a Japanese race record for almost 20 years.
2 :
And also like other young auto enthusiasts around the world, he was bitten by the racing bug. Honda built and drove a race car of his own design and somewhere in my archives, I have a photo of that first Honda racer, a single-seater with high, wood-spoked wheels and a narrow body. The powerplant was reported to be a Ford of some vintage and while leading in the All Japan Speed Rally of 1936, he crashed into a slower moving competitor at 75 mph and was disabled for more than a year. It was then that he gave up his dream of becoming a race driver and concentrated on operating his fledgling business.
3 :
Soichiro Honda had just set a new lap record around Tokyo's Tama River course, and he was leading the All-Japan Speed Rally when a race car he was passing lurched across his path. Honda's own machine, a supercharged, Ford-based special he had built himself, crashed heavily, rolling over three times and tossing the driver out. The broken bones and facial lacerations he suffered would keep the 29-year-old auto repair shop owner away from his business for a year and a half. The year was 1936, and that accident marked the end of Soichiro's own race driving career, but not of his love of racing. Not by a long way.
4 :
Soichiro Honda's love of victory helped launch a small company into a racing giant. He possessed an uncanny ability to develop technology for racing and adapt it to the consumer market. At age 22, and drawing upon his skills as a mechanic, Mr. Honda developed a V-8 Curtis Wright aircraft engine to race on a Ford chassis. He took the wheel himself that year and set a Japanese speed record hitting 75 mph. Honda Racing was born.
Later that year, after an unfortunate racing accident, Mr. Honda made a promise to his family to never take the wheel of a racer again. Soichiro began to tackle racing from the development standpoint, producing some of the finest engines ever to race
5 :
In 1925 the owner Yuzo Sakakibara inspired Soichiro to build a racing car on a 1916 Mitchell chassis, with a Curtis-Wright 8-litre V-8 aircraft engine. With 100bhp at 1,400rpm it was a formidable proposition with Soichiro building most of the components including carving the wooden wheel spokes.
For oval tracks with left-hand bends Soichiro made racing cars with offset Ford engines. He tried supercharging, fitting extra cooling radiators, and hardened valve seats and was successful as riding mechanic and driver, but his career was almost cut short in the All-Japan Speed Rally of 1936 near Tokyo.
He collided with another car and was thrown out, dislocating his shoulder, breaking a wrist, and sustaining facial injuries, which left permanent scars. His brother, acting as riding mechanic, escaped with minor cuts. Their 120kph (75mph) average speed remained a Japanese race record for nearly 20 years.
6 :
He also developed a great interest in racecars, building them and racing as well. Although he won many races in his time, his racing career was put to an end in 1936 when he collided into another car and somersaulted three times. He was badly injured but survived, and has gone on to use racing as a means of testing his vehicles.
7 :
At the same time as he was newly married in 1934 and studying to perfect his piston rings, Honda was running Art Shokai and designing and building race cars which he drove to many wins.
It is worth looking at one of his successful designs to see how his thinking processes worked. Races in Japan in the 1930s were anti-clockwise. Corners were predominantly to the left. Honda designed a car using a Ford engine which he repositioned to the left hand side of the car. This changed its centre of gravity. It could take left hand turns better than other race cars.
Realising the car could now go faster than its competitors, Honda also followed aircraft engine design practice and fitted a supercharger. This race car was highly successful until Honda was involved in a serious crash in 1936 towards the end of the All-Japan speed rally in Tokyo. He set a speed record which was to remain unbeaten until the 1950s. But the crash prevented him from winning and left him with scars over his left eye which he bore the rest of his life.
8 :
Soichiro Honda had just set a new lap record around Tokyo's Tama River course, and he was leading the All-Japan Speed Rally when a race car he was passing lurched across his path. Honda's own machine, a supercharged, Ford-based special he had built himself, crashed heavily, rolling over three timnes and tossing the driver out. The broken bones and facial lacerations he suffered would keep the 29-year-old auto repair shop owner away from his business for a year and a half.
The year was 1936, and that accident marked the end of Soichiro's own race driving career, but not of his love of racing. Not by a long way.
#8
dbw
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Posted 17 November 2000 - 03:28
this really starts to sound like "Rashomon" to me.....my translation from SCG states the invicta won in "the final 100 lapper"..so this indicates perhaps several races or heats....photos with the article clearly show the curtiss mitchell [looking much as it does today!]on the track with the invicta....so it seems the mitchell and the honda special are two different cars...the photo of the flipping car pretty clearly does not have wood wheels..they look more like the typical 16" ford wires most popular on ford specials as they will fit chassis from '28 thru'36....
other issues.. the OX5 curtiss aero engine used in the mitchell chassis was mfg under licence for glenn curtiss as a powerplant for WW1 trainers[JN4] and has nothing to do with later curtiss-wright engines[that were mostly radial]
i suspect that the period press favored the likes of baron mitsui and mr. watanabe[a tokyo banker] as they were rich and powerful men of the era....mr. honda's crash, while spectacular,no doubt was not given much attention as mr honda was still a young unknown...as he became an icon of the motor industry, one wonders how the real story evolved from dull fact into exciting legend. [issues, i suspect, you guys encounter all the time!]
other issues.. the OX5 curtiss aero engine used in the mitchell chassis was mfg under licence for glenn curtiss as a powerplant for WW1 trainers[JN4] and has nothing to do with later curtiss-wright engines[that were mostly radial]
i suspect that the period press favored the likes of baron mitsui and mr. watanabe[a tokyo banker] as they were rich and powerful men of the era....mr. honda's crash, while spectacular,no doubt was not given much attention as mr honda was still a young unknown...as he became an icon of the motor industry, one wonders how the real story evolved from dull fact into exciting legend. [issues, i suspect, you guys encounter all the time!]
#9
MN
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Posted 17 November 2000 - 05:17
I think Mr.Honda had lost one eye when he had that big accident.
Shotaro Kobayashi is the original editor of the "Car Graphic" magazine. Tokyo unversity graduate, applied job in Nissan but could not get it due to his health condition at that time. Probably the best motor journalist in Japan and Japanese car industry owes him big time.
(His test reports on domestic cars are not kind, rather hash and very critical.)
He loves historic car races, I saw many his photos racing in his own Riley and DB6. I know he had owned(maybe still does) Alvis, Rover, Alfa ...etc.
Mr.Kawamoto(ex-Honda president, ex-Honda R&D chief) invited Kobayashi to Honda's Tochigi proving circuit one day and they had a joy rides with verious open wheel racing cars including Honda's 1.5 turbo engine powered Lotus F1.
Kobayashi is the one made plan to restore Curtiss and give it back to Mr.Honda.
Shotaro Kobayashi is the original editor of the "Car Graphic" magazine. Tokyo unversity graduate, applied job in Nissan but could not get it due to his health condition at that time. Probably the best motor journalist in Japan and Japanese car industry owes him big time.
(His test reports on domestic cars are not kind, rather hash and very critical.)
He loves historic car races, I saw many his photos racing in his own Riley and DB6. I know he had owned(maybe still does) Alvis, Rover, Alfa ...etc.
Mr.Kawamoto(ex-Honda president, ex-Honda R&D chief) invited Kobayashi to Honda's Tochigi proving circuit one day and they had a joy rides with verious open wheel racing cars including Honda's 1.5 turbo engine powered Lotus F1.
Kobayashi is the one made plan to restore Curtiss and give it back to Mr.Honda.
#10
MN
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Posted 17 November 2000 - 06:09
I have the same photo in my Car Graphic, a bit better quality but I don't have a scanner.Originally posted by Flicker
..... If anybody can enlighten us with more precise dates and details..?
Here is a photo of this crash:
Sorry for poor quality (may be Rayner Nyberg will provide us a better pic)
It was 1936/JUNE(no date, sorry).
The car had Ford 4-cylinder engine and he added his own supercharger to it. He was trying to lap slow car in front of him and touched, co-driver(or in-car mechanic?) was Mr.Honda's younger brother.
#11
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 November 2000 - 00:07
The Ford engine would have been an A-Model or (more likely, from memory there were improvements) a B-Model. How was the engine moved to the left, though?
Did he build a transfer case? Or simply swing the front of the engine over to the left, leaving it at an angle in the chassis? Or perhaps cant it over, maybe with dry-sumping?
It would almost undoubtedly have retained its torque tube, which mounts on the back of the gearbox.
Did he build a transfer case? Or simply swing the front of the engine over to the left, leaving it at an angle in the chassis? Or perhaps cant it over, maybe with dry-sumping?
It would almost undoubtedly have retained its torque tube, which mounts on the back of the gearbox.
