215 replies to this topic

[dank]

Autosport.com and Castrol have joined forces to unleash something for the new racing season called 'Castrol Rankings'

http://www.castroldriverrankings.com/

A brief explanation on how it works:

Cue the hundreds of armchair critics arguing about 'unfair comparisons' here!

[kar]

Lame.

What will the next nonsense 'viral' marketing effort be then?

Edited by kar, 14 January 2010 - 10:24.

[dank]

Also on the Autosport.com website: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/80859

[y2cragie]

Lame.

What will the next nonsense 'viral' marketing effort be then?

To be fair how is it any different to the posters here creating their own rankings as they do??

[dank]

Just tried to make a prediction for this month's 'best performer' and none of the drivers I selected could be found. 'Sorry, we couldn't find that driver in the Rankings'

Good start!

[noikeee]

This is gonna make for some fun flame wars, for sure.

I had a quick look around and it actually seems pretty well thought, can't argue much against the system they're using. The only thing that seems a little wrong to me is that Indycar seems to give too many points.

Of course it's far from 100% fair, because the car advantage isn't acknowledged, but good luck in finding a system that gets around that.

[Kalmake]

Of course it's far from 100% fair, because the car advantage isn't acknowledged, but good luck in finding a system that gets around that.

OTOH if they are gonna give arbitrary values to each series, they might as well have done so to each team.

[mark f1]

hmmmm.....15 Sprint Cup drivers in the top 40......Winner of the last 2 V8 Supercar championships (Jamie Whincup) not even in the top 100.....

[jeze]

Very strange performance judgement, especially since Button hardly crushed the F1 field last year.

[Ruud de la Rosa]

The site looks horrible now! Now I have to enable ad blocker on autosport.

[Zdeus]

Autosport.com and Castrol have joined forces to unleash something for the new racing season called 'Castrol Rankings'

http://www.castroldriverrankings.com/

A brief explanation on how it works:

Cue the hundreds of armchair critics arguing about 'unfair comparisons' here!

Classical gimmic to increase impressions /CPM...

[anbeck]

What's so new about it? I remember having seen that kind of ranking, say, ten years ago already. Not sure, if it had the same name, though.

The only thing that seems new to me is the PR framing....

[potmotr]

Castrol promote their brand with this kind of statistical mumbo jumbo.

In football, Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger is the face of the Castrol Performance Index, which uses stats to work out likely scenarios on the pitch.

http://www.castrol.c...ntentId=7052191

[Jackmancer]

Castrol promote their brand with this kind of statistical mumbo jumbo.

In football, Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger is the face of the Castrol Performance Index, which uses stats to work out likely scenarios on the pitch.

http://www.castrol.c...ntentId=7052191

Yeh Castrol already have Football rankings, which is getting more and more 'known' around the web.

[chdphd]

They should get Nick Heidfeld in as a presenter

[aditya-now]

To be fair how is it any different to the posters here creating their own rankings as they do??

To be fair non of the posters here tries to boost their sales with their own rankings.
And, like it or not, each posters ranking is sincerely felt from the heart of the respective person.
Not some soulless viral marketing gimmick...

[aditya-now]

Clever how they try to use Michael as their poster boy without having to pay him a dime!

http://www.castroldr...d-be-number-one

[kar]

'Powered by autosport.com'.

This kinda crass commercialism kinda stinks actually. That autosport put it as news, rather than grapevine kinda says a lot.

[DaleCooper]

The rankings show who is most successful, not who is best. That is still left to interpretation. So, sadly, no-one here loses their job.

This isn't Tennis, people.

Cooper

[Zdeus]

Cheap autosport marketing ! even cheaper to pass it off as F1 NEWS.

[etoipi]

While ultimately futile, the idea of comparing drivers across series is interesting and amusing. However, after viewing the video, flipping through the ebook and reading the Castrol Ranking FAQ, I am really little the wiser as to how the calculations are completed as I could not find scores or weightings. Unless someone can point me to where scores and weights are found, I will be giving this a miss!!

Sorry Castrol - no advertising potential for me unless I can find full details

Edited by etoipi, 14 January 2010 - 12:26.

[robracer]

Lol do those people whining have nothing better to do in their lives?

I like it, it shows how successful each driver is compared to those in other forms of motorsport.

[bonneville]

Here is all the drivers currently confirmed to drive F1 in 2010, here is how they rate:

Driver Team 2010 Points
Jenson Button McLaren 21828
Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 20599
Rubens Barrichello Williams 18788
Mark Webber Red Bull 17624
Lewis Hamilton McLaren 15628
Jarno Trulli Lotus 13614
Nico Rosberg Mercedes 13352
Fernando Alonso Ferrari 12869
Timo Glock Virgin 11887
Nico Hülkenberg Williams 11340
Heikki Kovalainen Lotus 11046
Robert Kubica Renault 10679
Adrian Sutil Force India 8689
Sébastien Buemi Torro Rossa 8256
Felipe Massa Ferrari 7015
Luca Di Grassi Virgin 6471
Vitantonio Liuzzi Force India 2648
Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 1494
Bruno Senna Campos 630
Michael Schumacher Mercedes 0

Here is the rating of those rumoured to be in contention for a ride in the Silly Season thread:

Driver Team 2010 Points
Nick Heidfeld Rumoured (Renault, Sauber) 11561
Giancarlo Fisichella Rumoured (Sauber) 10411
Vitaly Petrov Rumoured (Campos, Sauber) 9560
Jerome D'Ambrosio Rumoured (Renault) 7644
Romain Grosjean Rumoured (Renault) 7631 incl. GP2
Pastor Maldonado Rumoured (Campos) 6119
Ralf Schumacher Rumoured (USF1) 4803
Ho-Pin Tung Rumoured (Renault, Campos) 4418
Jaime Alguersuari Rumoured (Torro Rosso) 2995
Romain Grosjean Rumoured (Renault) 2742
Alex Wurz Rumoured (USF1) 2445
Jacques Villeneuve Rumoured (USF1) 774
Takuma Sato Rumoured (Renault) 0
Pedro De La Rosa Rumoured (Campos, USF1, Sauber) 0
James Rossiter Rumoured (USF1) 0
Jose Maria Lopez Rumoured (USF1) 0

Edited by bonneville, 14 January 2010 - 12:29.

[Guinnevvere]

What's so new about it? I remember having seen that kind of ranking, say, ten years ago already. Not sure, if it had the same name, though.

The only thing that seems new to me is the PR framing....

In 1997 was launched a similar ranking (Champion Spark Plug World Driver Rankings). Michael Schumacher was the first winner.

December 29 standings:		  Points
 1 M Schumacher  Formula 1	   1002
 2 J Villeneuve  Formula 1		957
 3 P de la Rosa  Formula Nippon   937
 4 J Gordon	  NASCAR		   903
 5 A Zanardi	 CART			 887
 6 D Jarrett	 NASCAR		   844
 7 G de Ferran   CART			 751
 8 M Martin	  NASCAR		   702
 9 HH Frentzen   Formula 1		693
10 A Menu	   Brit Tour Cars   691

It lasted two or three years.

[jeze]

Massa below Sutil How on earth? Do they get points just for starting races or what? Massa was on the podium and scored 18 points more than Sutil last year. That he's behind Buemi is another shocker!

[Orin]

Autosport.com and Castrol have joined forces to unleash something for the new racing season called 'Castrol Rankings'

http://www.castroldriverrankings.com/

A brief explanation on how it works:

Cue the hundreds of armchair critics arguing about 'unfair comparisons' here!

Much as I like Jenson, any ranking system which goes on and on about its 'definitiveness' and then votes Button the best driver in the world would appear to be taking the piss.

[sidepodcast]

what a staggeringly awful idea.

Edited by sidepodcast, 14 January 2010 - 12:42.

[alfiebengal]

Much as I like Jenson, any ranking system which goes on and on about its 'definitiveness' and then votes Button the best driver in the world would appear to be taking the piss.

If people like you actually read the details properly you would see that rewards consistency and Jensen was incredibly consistent in 2009. How many actual driving errors do remember him making last year? It does NOT award one off wins as such.

[Orin]

If people like you actually read the details properly you would see that rewards consistency and Jensen was incredibly consistent in 2009. How many actual driving errors do remember him making last year? It does NOT award one off wins as such.

I never said it did. If people like you were to actually watch the video you'd see that both the terms 'definitive' and 'best driver in the world' were used.

[alfiebengal]

I never said it did. If people like you were to actually watch the video you'd see that both the terms 'definitive' and 'best driver in the world' were used.

I suggest you read DC's explanation of it. Then you'll understand how it works

[morganeryl]

That's a horrible list, how the hell could anyone put Denny Hamlin ahead of Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso?

[Orin]

I suggest you read DC's explanation of it. Then you'll understand how it works

It doesn't work, that was my point.

[alfiebengal]

It doesn't work, that was my point.

No your point is that it doesn't work the way you think it should. I'm sure that if you could come up with something better Castrol or someone would be very happy to use it and pay you for the privilege.

So there's a challenge that I doubt you'll rise to.

[Sakae]

I am happy; Seb is right up there..

[Orin]

No your point is that it doesn't work the way you think it should. I'm sure that if you could come up with something better Castrol or someone would be very happy to use it and pay you for the privilege.

So there's a challenge that I doubt you'll rise to.

Only a fool pays heed to such lists, the joke in this one is that the providers crowed about its definitiveness. Well, I see they've convinced one person.

[Sausage]

Wo came up with this? I think he should got to jail

[Frogman]

Maybe I'm being too much of a numbers geek here, but I want to know the exact method of calculating the scores. Not 'score x weighting x adjustment', I want to know how many points for an F1 race win, second, etc. I basically would like to be able to calculate the rankings myself. Until then I can't say how good or bad this ranking system is (IMHO of course).

[TheF1PERSON]

Probably Bernie

[robracer]

Wo came up with this? I think he should got to jail

Nice joke.

It's like the rankings in tennis, the more success you have the more points you get and the higher you are on the list. But I don't think there is much point to a ranking system for motorsport since all the drivers race in different forms of motorsport, unlike in tennis where the rules and equipment are the same for everyone. I doubt it will last very long, maybe a couple of years.

But to those who say it is pointless and don't like it, don't go on that web page and don't follow it, it's not difficult to do that is it?

[ebeneezer2]

I looked at the site's explanations, in the Q & A there is the question 'do you take car performance into account' to which they reply 'no, you can't objectively assess car performance'. Unfortunately that doesn't mean 'car performance makes no difference' - and as long as they don't take it into account their lists are junk sadly. Incidentally, there has been a ranking list that takes the quality of their cars out of the equation, it was by, ahem, me, in this thread http://forums.autosp...w...=118854&hl=. I'm not silly enough to claim that the method I used there gives a definitive list of how good the drivers are, but with (a lot) more work adn development, it has the potential to give a much better list than the Castrol list ever will.

[zepunishment]

Using a specially formulated and very complex algorithm, it has been possible to further condense these ratings to be expressed as a mere two characters!

B.S

[hunnylander]

It's horrible...

...how much stupid fans don't understand how it works.

Don't expect Schumacher on the top of the list, he didn't competed in the last years. He will climb, as Hamilton also.

The places of the F1 drivers are fully logical.

[Sausage]

Using a specially formulated and very complex algorithm, it has been possible to further condense these ratings to be expressed as a mere two characters!

B.S

I bet they pulled the numbers right out of their A.S.S.!

A.S.S.
n. pl. ass·es (sz)
1. Automated Sausage System. A type of computer software used to calculate nonsensical rankings.
2. This is not an acronym. It's the word ass with dots between it.

[William Hunt]

Bertrand Baguette, who won in dominant style with many wins the World Series title is only 155th behind several F3 drivers and many Nascar drivers. His campatriot Jerôme d'Ambrosio is 77th in that same list although he didn't win a race in the GP2 main series. The list is ridiculous.

[ivanalesi]

I think from a marketing point of view, for Castrol, it's a really great, great idea. But is this ranking correct? Hell no! Can it be correct? NOPE.
There's such a thing in tennis and I don't think it works there, it's very very confusing and you basically have lots of GPs, but never a fight for the world title. In this aspect, F1 is much better.
Also on the championships included, no disrespect, but SudAm F3 or OZ F3 are nowhere near as competitive as FR 2.0 Eurocup, in fact i.e. German F3 or AutoGP/Euroseries 3000 are nowhere near as competitive. Also they have missed some series in the US, like Star Mazda, the Argentine TC championships and many more... if it's going to be global, it has to include a lot more of these 50 championships.
In short, I don't like it and I don't think it will do good for racing in general. There are some very odd placings...

[Alfisti]

When a large firm takes over a little one that has some spunk, there are always promises that the integrity and intelligence of the little firm will be retained and that the big company is just going to use it's funding to help build the little company into a stronger brand/product/whatever.

Truth is, this is what happens, it gets run through the lowest common denominator wringer and we're left with this garbage being listed as news.

Bira must be turning in her proverbial Atlas F1 grave.

[hunnylander]

http://cdn.images.au...astrolrankings/

[mclarensmps]

Castrol Rankings will never work on a sport so heavily reliant on machinery and technology.

[Fudce]

An interesting idea, but with any rankings system there is room for error. The thing about not analysing the different performance of the car is interesting, but how could you do that on a continual basis while remaining mathematically correct throughout the season and along with keeping the correct weight between series? It's not really possible to be honest.

As an infallable tool for determining EXACTLY what driver is best, it's flawed, but as a useful guide that ranks drivers using an official method, it's a great idea!

It also throws up a few strange anomalies.

Massa below Sutil is understandable, since Massa sat out for half of the season due to injury. There is no accounting for injuries in the rankings, and that is right. It's not a "who is best" ranking, it's a "who is driving the best".

Jason Plato ahead of Colin Turkington is also a bit odd, given that Turkington beat Plato in the BTCC last year.


Another use is it gives us the chance to look at some drivers in lower categories and see how close they may be to moving up to more recognisable levels. I've had my eye on the Christodoulou cousin's for quite a while after watching them in Formula Renault UK a few years ago. Unfortunatly Adam Christodoulou spent last year in the Star Mazda seies, and isn't included in the rankings, but Riki Christodoulou (the one who actually performed worse out of the pair in 2007) is ranked 302, not far behind Matt Neal, and ahead of Christian Klien.

[robracer]

I think from a marketing point of view, for Castrol, it's a really great, great idea. But is this ranking correct? Hell no! Can it be correct? NOPE.
There's such a thing in tennis and I don't think it works there, it's very very confusing and you basically have lots of GPs, but never a fight for the world title. In this aspect, F1 is much better.
Also on the championships included, no disrespect, but SudAm F3 or OZ F3 are nowhere near as competitive as FR 2.0 Eurocup, in fact i.e. German F3 or AutoGP/Euroseries 3000 are nowhere near as competitive. Also they have missed some series in the US, like Star Mazda, the Argentine TC championships and many more... if it's going to be global, it has to include a lot more of these 50 championships.
In short, I don't like it and I don't think it will do good for racing in general. There are some very odd placings...

I don't follow what your saying (in bold). Are you saying the rankings don't work in tennis? Because your wrong if that is what you mean.